Guaranteed procs showing in weapons/abilities stats

[(PSN)Station2D-]

A suggestion to show the ¨guaranteed/forced procs¨ of the weapons or abilities in their statistics

I know that the Official Wiki shows this information too, but I feel more comfortable looking for this while In-game

Thanks.

[chaotea]

I think its probably too niche to add to the arsenal.

[emmyemi]

It might clutter the UI, but quite a lot of weapons and melee stances have forced procs, and it would be very nice to not have to load up the wiki every time just to check.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Well, the Melee combo page in game is utterly useless as-is, I could definitely see this as an upgrade to that section.

For Primary and Secondary weapons... that definitely might clutter things, because the weapon stats are already a long list. In the case of some weapons, there's multiple modes, multiple damage instances... So that might take a far more in-depth visual rework.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, emmyemi said:

It might clutter the UI, but quite a lot of weapons and melee stances have forced procs, and it would be very nice to not have to load up the wiki every time just to check.

It would be nice for the people who do so not to have to test every new weapon in order to put that info in the wiki!

Anyway, I'm all for transparency on these for bug hunting, if nothing else.  If something gets released missing a forced proc it's meant to have, there's no way for anybody outside of DE to know that.

Which might explain a few lackluster weapon and stance releases over the years.

edit: haha, they actually added these to stances today, on the melee combos page.  @Birdframe_Prime

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)Station2D-]

hace 20 horas, chaotea dijo:

I think its probably too niche to add to the arsenal.

Come on, it's not like keeping those features as a secret is a good thing.

[(PSN)Station2D-]

hace 14 horas, Tiltskillet dijo:

It would be nice for the people who do so not to have to test every new weapon in order to put that info in the wiki!

Good take

[Traumtulpe]

20 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

For Primary and Secondary weapons... that definitely might clutter things, because the weapon stats are already a long list. In the case of some weapons, there's multiple modes, multiple damage instances... So that might take a far more in-depth visual rework.

Or they could just add the proc symbol right next to the damage number in the arsenal, just like they do with the damage numbers on screen. Seems real easy to me.

[chaotea]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Station2D- said:

Come on, it's not like keeping those features as a secret is a good thing.

Sure, but its on so few weapons that its not going to be worth the effort for putting it in.

I mean sure, it would be nice to have, but its unlikely to happen.

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

edit: haha, they actually added these to stances today, on the melee combos page.  @Birdframe_Prime

I know, right?! That was amazing.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Or they could just add the proc symbol right next to the damage number in the arsenal, just like they do with the damage numbers on screen. Seems real easy to me.

But they already have the damage symbols next to the damage numbers, to show how much of each damage they deal.

Adding another symbol on top of that would be a little confusing because we currently don't have the separation for that. It would, genuinely, just be adding clutter without a visual update to how damage and stats are displayed.

In the same vein, adding a specific section to say 'on hit: proc X' would either get lost in the current information, or just make the weapons with multiple fire/hit modes even longer than they are now.

Just more clutter. Unless a visual update happens.

[Traumtulpe]

45 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

But they already have the damage symbols next to the damage numbers

No, you are not understanding what we are talking about. If a weapon has a guaranteed proc, it could very easily be displayed on the right of the "Damage: Total" number in the arsenal.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, you are not understanding what we are talking about. If a weapon has a guaranteed proc, it could very easily be displayed on the right of the "Damage: Total" number in the arsenal.

Would it?

The total damage number having a damage type having a damage icon next to it isn't as obvious as you're picturing

Putting one there could actually confuse things more by making players think that the 'total damage' is converted to that damage type instead. Easy to mis-interpret.

Especially when some weapons do multiple forced procs on them, or when the forced proc can be easily confused with a regular Status proc from a weapon having a high amount of that damage type anyway.

[Traumtulpe]

32 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Especially when some weapons do multiple forced procs on them

In that case both (all of them) can be displayed next to each other, on the right of the total damage number - exactly as they are displayed when actually shooting an enemy.

Also can you give me an example of a weapon with multiple simultaneous forced procs?

[(PSN)Sentiel]

At least adding this to the weapons description would help.

For example, Rakta Dark Dagger doesn't show anywhere in it's stats that it generates Shields and Overshields when you hit a irradiated enemy, it has it in its description.

So something like: "Daikyu takes great strength to draw back, but provides added power and range with every shot. Each shot is guaranteed to stagger its target." The part in bold was added to the already existing weapon description.

Edited July 28, 2023 by (PSN)Sentiel
Fixed a typo

[(PSN)Station2D-]

hace 16 horas, chaotea dijo:

I mean sure, it would be nice to have, but its unlikely to happen.

You are not wrong, but one can only hope lol

hace 5 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

Putting one there could actually confuse things more by making players think that the 'total damage' is converted to that damage type instead. Easy to mis-interpret.

I get your point, but in the other hand I think it's more confusing not to specify that weapons like the Arca plasmor, which is a pure radiation weapon, have an guaranteed impact proc, players would probably think it's a bug until they see the stats on the Wiki, but that's not a good first impression.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Also can you give me an example of a weapon with multiple simultaneous forced procs?

Epitaph for one, with a guaranteed Impact and Cold on direct hit.

11 hours ago, (PSN)Station2D- said:

I get your point, but in the other hand I think it's more confusing not to specify that weapons like the Arca plasmor, which is a pure radiation weapon, have an guaranteed impact proc, players would probably think it's a bug until they see the stats on the Wiki, but that's not a good first impression.

See, I'm not saying to not do it.

I'm saying, and this is to be clear; without updating how we actually display the weapon stats, any method we come up with here is not going to be either universally clear, or universally non-cluttering.

[Traumtulpe]

26 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Epitaph for one, with a guaranteed Impact and Cold on direct hit.

The direct hit and the AoE are seperate entries in the arsenal, so no issue there (not that there would be any with having two procs, mind you).

26 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I'm saying, and this is to be clear; without updating how we actually display the weapon stats, any method we come up with here is not going to be either universally clear, or universally non-cluttering.

What is cluttering about this? It just gives you the relevant information, instead of forcing you to look every weapon up on the wiki. Can you spot the bit I photoshopped?

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Can you spot the bit I photoshopped?

And how is that clear, Traum?

I get what you're saying, I just don't believe that this is the solution you think it is.

Because that, to me, and I can assure you to a lot of other people, will just look like 'Total: X Impact Damage' not 'Total: X damage + Impact Status Proc'. 

Do you know why I'm saying this? And it's not to be counter-productive or just contrary.

It's because I literally am a designer. I've got 20 years experience in visual design, and I actually have to think about the ways people could interpret a given layout. Specifically I was taught (and have continued to have the lesson reinforced by the world proving that customers are dumber than bricks) to ensure that if you want information to be shared clearly there is one thing to do first: you consider that everyone that sees it could be an idiot, and how badly they could get the information wrong.

This may seem like a simple and elegant, non-cluttering solution to you, but it's so easily mis-interpreted by people that don't know how this game works. You're looking at this from a perspective of a player that already knows what the weapons are and do, what the main damage is and does. This doesn't actually communicate information, it just adds another icon to the mix.

I'm not just pointing out the flaw in a single aspect of this, I'm genuinely saying that the way Warframe's stats are communicated by their very thin, off-to-the-side stat window, line-by-line, scroll to see the rest of the stats layout, is actually not all that helpful in the first place.

It works, at a bare minimum, but it's like a lot of Warframe's functions; not bad enough to make fixing it a priority. And adding more little icons doesn't solve that.

[Traumtulpe]

Well we have the option between a simple display that everyone familiar with the game will instantly understand, and... nothing, no information, go to the wiki.

[Tiltskillet]

14 hours ago, (PSN)Station2D- said:

I think it's more confusing not to specify that weapons like the Arca plasmor, which is a pure radiation weapon, have an guaranteed impact proc, players would probably think it's a bug until they see the stats on the Wiki, but that's not a good first impression.

Excellent point.