Gammacor Incarnon: What it is and isnt, some things that do and dont work.

[(PSN)tawmbus]

TL;DR its evolutions serve to greatly boost this reliable utility sidearm making it more capable of being a show stealer and drastically outshines its incarnon form.

This is a look into the use case of the Gammacor Incarnons form.

The Incarnon form needs 15 headshots to charge 15 incarnon projectiles which have a 5 meter vacuum that force procs 1 cold and 1 impact status, and then detonates in that same area.

Primed Fulmination: affects the explosion, but not the vacuum. Enemies that get vacuumed do not benefit much from having the slightly improved damage fall off, where as the enemies that missed the vacuum and are now getting hit with the explosion are getting hit with the explosion when its falloff is most punishing. I dont think its worth slotting in.

Hemorrhage: a direct hit with the projectile inflicts 1 impact status and with its low fire rate has 70% chance to proc hemo's bleed. The vacuum that applies 1 impact proc does not seem to ever proc hemorrhage. For that reason I do not think its worth slotting in (this would be a great change or fix, would really liven it up).

So we can get slashes out of it(but not en masse), its aoe is pretty decent and because its a vacuum it has pretty low practical fall off, how is it damage wise?
Well it doesnt quite tickle, but there are a few things holding it back.
Being an aoe weapon, it does not benefit from Galvanized Shot (which its normal form benefits greatly from).
it does not benefit from the additive crit damage from cold procs (which is a shame since it forces these and woulda scaled nicely with multishot),
it does not proc hemmorhage with its forced impact procs from the vacuum,
it does not benefit from Secondary Shiver as its an aoe weapon.

It does do decent damage, and it does group things well, and it does inflict a few extra guaranteed status procs, so would this be a good tool for priming?
Well I dont think so, it would be awkward do to its low ammo pool and slow incarnon charge rate. Compared to a nukor or an Epitaph I dont think its as good at priming, and it takes more work. I also dont think it would be ideal as a primer for melee since the explosion has self stagger but the embedded delay for that explosion is on the lengthy 1.2seconds. Thats a bit of a wait to charge in after things were nicely grouped.

What about just using it as a fire and forget? It doesnt achieve even orange crits out of the box, and with its same low ammo pool and mildly inconvenient incarnon charge, really doesnt hold a candle to the Tenet Plinx. Plinx does everything but better, maybe with a slightly smaller radius, but its much more useable and much more powerful.

The explosion and vacuum are also limited to line of sight. Had some corpus laughing at me behind a glass railing. Shot the railing and they didnt even flinch.

So what about just using it like the Felarx and skip its incarnon mode? This seems to be the best use case for this weapon. Before the evolutions, it was  actually quite good especially with galv mods and cascadia flare. Being able to cap cascadia flare in a few seconds made this a pretty strong and reliable weapon, and then if  you couple it with the Synoids Entropy buff its even nicer.

I think a nice change to make the incarnon mode somewhat  more attractive as an option would be to enable Hemorrhage to proc on the vacuumed impact procs.
I cant think of any other weapons that can fit IB or Hemo, and have forced or even just aoe impact procs where Hemo/IB DONT apply. Kuva Chakkhurr's aoe's forced impact proc works with IB, I think Gammacor Incarnons vacuum procs should too.

Or for the charging, get progress from headshot kills in addition to just headshots, since it feels bad if an enemy dies to headshots and the bar barely moves.
 

Edited July 31, 2023 by (PSN)tawmbus
grammar choice

[Traumtulpe]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)tawmbus said:

What it is and isnt

It's a significantly worse version of the Atomos, and that's really it.

[Tiltskillet]

19 hours ago, (PSN)tawmbus said:

The vacuum that applies 1 impact proc does not seem to ever proc hemorrhage

Does the vacuum do any damage at all?  If not, that could explain Hemo not activating.

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Does the vacuum do any damage at all?  If not, that could explain Hemo not activating.

It definitely does, only reason i use that mod though is how much worse it’s AoE does compare to direct hitting them with Hemorrhage. Atleast against armor, i’m sure without it, it’s AoE is more beneficial.

[(PSN)tawmbus]

5 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Does the vacuum do any damage at all?  If not, that could explain Hemo not activating.

Oh man that would explain it. Im pretty sure the vacuum only applies the cold and impact and the damage only comes from the embedded explosion.

I stopped using the incarnon form but i'll keep an eye on it moving forward.

[SprinKah]

I don't have the Gammacor incarnon yet, or know that whether or not it has any craziness going with it.

But IMO, Incarnons are the BEST when they strike a good balance between its normal form (ITS ACTUAL IDENTITY) and its incarnon form.

Gammacor has always been, a beam weapon, I've always loved it for that, same with most Incarnon weapons, I've loved them for what they are originally. I think if there's anything to go by, it's fine imo if the incarnon forms don't COMPLETELY outshine their original form, not being END-ALL-BE-ALL and can be used in tandem with the normal form. I also hate it when incarnon forms just complete derail from what the weapon's know and loved for.

For example, Torid and recently, the Boar. Their beam incarnon form is so busted there's not a lot of reason to really use its normal form, the entire reason they were loved to begin with...Some weapons have really strong incarnon form as well but AT LEAST some of them don't retail completely from its original identity (Braton, Burston, Boltor, Soma). 

MAYBE, there's some wonky stuff going on with gammacor incarnon that I dunno about, perhaps it needs some tweaking but I sincerely hope incarnons simply don't become another Torid or Boar Incarnon

[(PSN)Sentiel]

33 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

I don't have the Gammacor incarnon yet, or know that whether or not it has any craziness going with it.

But IMO, Incarnons are the BEST when they strike a good balance between its normal form (ITS ACTUAL IDENTITY) and its incarnon form.

Gammacor has always been, a beam weapon, I've always loved it for that, same with most Incarnon weapons, I've loved them for what they are originally. I think if there's anything to go by, it's fine imo if the incarnon forms don't COMPLETELY outshine their original form, not being END-ALL-BE-ALL and can be used in tandem with the normal form. I also hate it when incarnon forms just complete derail from what the weapon's know and loved for.

For example, Torid and recently, the Boar. Their beam incarnon form is so busted there's not a lot of reason to really use its normal form, the entire reason they were loved to begin with...Some weapons have really strong incarnon form as well but AT LEAST some of them don't retail completely from its original identity (Braton, Burston, Boltor, Soma). 

MAYBE, there's some wonky stuff going on with gammacor incarnon that I dunno about, perhaps it needs some tweaking but I sincerely hope incarnons simply don't become another Torid or Boar Incarnon

The Incarnons aren't that bad (at least the ones I have) when you think about their application outside of improving what the weapon already does.

Burston deals decent single target damage and it's Incarnon takes it even further.

Boar deals great single target damage already so the Incarnon covers it's weakness instead - being able to handle crowds. The beams are not only auto targeting but they also chain to nearby enemies.

 

Gammacor deals good single target damage after the Incarnon evolutions but can't handle crowds. The Incarnon mode tries to address this, but unlike Boar it does so poorly.

The ability to pull enemies together is a good idea but the follow up explosion scatters the enemies away which is the opposite of what the weapon should do. Also, the mode itself is the complete opposite of the base form, so controlling it is very awkward. Normally, you have a hold trigger beam with no recoil but the Incarnon is a semi auto grenade launcher that shoots in an arc and has a massive recoil.

Giving Gammacor the beams that Boar has would address the weapons shortcomings and would thematically fit the weapon as well. Alternatively, changing the way the grenade behaves to what Tenet Plinx does would fit as well. Still, since it scatters enemies away, that either has to be removed or the damage has to be increased so there's less likely to be any survivors left, again, just like Tenet Plinx.

Edited August 2, 2023 by (PSN)Sentiel

[Vaml77]

it's a really bad weapon....even in incarnon form. It managed to be a lot worse than atomos...I hope the DE sees this.

[SprinKah]

On 2023-08-02 at 12:13 PM, (PSN)Sentiel said:

The Incarnons aren't that bad (at least the ones I have) when you think about their application outside of improving what the weapon already does.

Burston deals decent single target damage and it's Incarnon takes it even further.

Boar deals great single target damage already so the Incarnon covers it's weakness instead - being able to handle crowds. The beams are not only auto targeting but they also chain to nearby enemies.

 

Gammacor deals good single target damage after the Incarnon evolutions but can't handle crowds. The Incarnon mode tries to address this, but unlike Boar it does so poorly.

The ability to pull enemies together is a good idea but the follow up explosion scatters the enemies away which is the opposite of what the weapon should do. Also, the mode itself is the complete opposite of the base form, so controlling it is very awkward. Normally, you have a hold trigger beam with no recoil but the Incarnon is a semi auto grenade launcher that shoots in an arc and has a massive recoil.

Giving Gammacor the beams that Boar has would address the weapons shortcomings and would thematically fit the weapon as well. Alternatively, changing the way the grenade behaves to what Tenet Plinx does would fit as well. Still, since it scatters enemies away, that either has to be removed or the damage has to be increased so there's less likely to be any survivors left, again, just like Tenet Plinx.

 SOME incarnons aren't that bad...but some others are just pretty much broken to the point that even if you remove their ability to install rivens, it'd make 0 difference on how absolutely busted they are. Now I wanna go on a litttle bit of a rant, I mean no ill will ofcourse, just wanna share my thoughts a bit, but for the sake of making it not look so...unseemly, I'll put it in here:

Spoiler

What I meant when I said how broken they are is just the fact that SOME incarnons right now are just WAY TOO strong, to the point that I feel like there's 0 point to even release new weapons at this point xD, if we take power-level into account. Stuff like...Dual Toxocysts, and Torid, if you got any dual secondaries or beam weapon in your inventory before the incarnon genesis release, might as well delete them now becaue there's simply no point. And I doubt DE will make everything incarnon :|. IMO, I would've loved it if the Dual Toxocysts INCARNON was just A LITTLE stronger than let's say...Tenet Diplos or Kuva Stubbas...but instead it just completely trampled all over them. 

And then we get prime releases like Afuris Prime...now Prime releases are supposed to be the "make old weapons better" kinda deal, but at this point, i dunno. I mean...look at the Fulmin Prime, great boost in power I'll say...but when you got incarnons like...Lex, Latron, Torid, Miter, etc...is it even worth it? Is every weapon at this point is going to just simply be deemed "glorified mastery fodder"? You could argue that it's "progression", but I don't think making only A FEW weapons the only TRUE options at a certain point...isn't exactly that good a thing. the power gap between some of the better non-incarnon weapons (Kuva, Tenet, Prime) VS SOME incarnon genesis weapons is just so wide, if it was up to me, Incarnons can still be strong, but the gap could've been smaller imo, then it can be somewhat balanced out with rivens. 

And all things considered...reaching Steel Path Circuit honestly isn't even that hard, some of the incarnon candidates are already really low MR as well (you honestly don't even need the best variants), going through all the starchart can be tedious but it's not hard, 

I think all incarnons should be more like the Boltor, Soma, Vasto, Zylok, Kunai, and most recently the Gorgon imo. They're perfect, either not straying far from their original identity or striking a great balance between the normal and incarnon form. Not being TOO strong that they make everything else obsolete, and not at all weak. 

some other incarnons are acceptable...and some are just outright "warcrime" :|

Also...DE releasing some incarnons with just simply INSANE AoE with basically INFINITE AMMO, after all that time talking about how AoE was a big issue with the game (which I agreed)...still baffles me. 

I think Burston is a pretty acceptable incarnon, balance-wise.

BOAR however, well, I dunno about you, I did tests with Steel path enemies in Simulacrum and I tell ya, I don't think a lot of people would really bother TOO MUCH with its normal form probably, not to say that it's BAD no no...it's jsut the incarnon form kinda outshines it still, which is a shame. The beam shoots faster, has better crits, better range, no fall-off, less dmg but DPS's overall way better and can chain with basically the entire map...yeah. I'll probably still use the normal form still...simply, bc I hate how the incarnon form functions...cuz it's kinda boring but that's just me. 

 

I still don't have the Gammacor incarnon yet...but I think if it was simply one of the first incarnons to be released, BEFORE being compared to some of the other more BUSTED incarnons...I think no one would really bat an eye, then again, I might need to see how it is myself, who knows. 

MAYBE, something else for it could be better...but eh, well, if anything, I wouldn't want ANOTHER Boar/Torid personally, I think I still love the idea of it shooting grenades that pull enemies together, but I suppose explosion throwing enemies around might be a bit of a pain. would love it if it was more like...Probocis Cernos or sth like that i suppose. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by SprinKah

[Traumtulpe]

8 hours ago, SprinKah said:

I think I still love the idea of it shooting grenades that pull enemies together

Except it has 5m range. You don't need to pull enemies together that are 5m apart. And it's a beam, so the Incarnon charges slowly. And the Incarnon form has mediocre stats, Cold damage (bad against everything, no damaging proc - yeah, the new critical damage against Cold procced enemies is worthless), can't make use of Hunter Munitions / Hemorrhage (so even turning the Cold into Viral is pointless)... basically there are no redeeming features.

The Atomos is better than this thing in every regard, more damage, better damage, better AoE, better status procs, better normal mode. Just get the Atomos.

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Except it has 5m range. You don't need to pull enemies together that are 5m apart. And it's a beam, so the Incarnon charges slowly. And the Incarnon form has mediocre stats, Cold damage (bad against everything, no damaging proc - yeah, the new critical damage against Cold procced enemies is worthless), can't make use of Hunter Munitions / Hemorrhage (so even turning the Cold into Viral is pointless)... basically there are no redeeming features.

The Atomos is better than this thing in every regard, more damage, better damage, better AoE, better status procs, better normal mode. Just get the Atomos.

You're probably right, but well...this is why I personally would love it if DE would just...take some of the REALLY "PROMINENT" incarnons DOWN A NOTCH...I'm getting really tired of people calling new incarnons BAD because they're not another warcrime-launcher like...Torid, Dual Toxocysts, Latron, Miter or Lex. DE made a pretty big mistake raising the roof with some incarnons. Our perception of the power level is broken now. 

Alas, I still don't have the Gammacor incarnon yet, but I highly doubt it's BAD, it's probably A LOT better than pretty much...god, idk, 80%+ of secondaries at this point, let's be honest, if it was released very early on, around withing the first week of incarnon genesis release, I think everyone'd be singing its praises, SIMPLY for the fact that the Gammacor got BUFFED! No one would be saying it's bad because it can't nuke the entire map in 0.1 sec, and that kind of measure is pretty toxic in my opinion.

[Traumtulpe]

4 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

DE made a pretty big mistake raising the roof with some incarnons.

I never even mentioned any of the meta weapons. The Gammacor is just very, very similar to the Atomos - except worse in every way.

I wouldn't use the Gammacor if it was the only Incarnon weapon in the game.

[SprinKah]

27 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I never even mentioned any of the meta weapons. The Gammacor is just very, very similar to the Atomos - except worse in every way.

I wouldn't use the Gammacor if it was the only Incarnon weapon in the game.

I mean...YOU probably wouldn't use the Gammacor if it was the only incarnon weapon in the game perhaps, but I'd use it here and there for flavours, why the hell not, and so would a lot of people I'd assume, it really doesn't have to be the same pickrate as...let's say, old Catchmoon for it to be considered "good". And as far as I remember, a lot of people actually loved the Tenet Plinx when it came out as well, from what I know, it's basically a Tenet Plinx, better or worse stats-wise, idk but functionally, it's basically that...so 

And like I said, my mentioning of "meta weapons" was simply a mean for argument's and comparison's sake...I simply said DE made SOME incarnons WAAAAAYYYY TOO STRONG, that a lot of incarnons, DESPITE the fact that all incarnons are technically still AMAZING, even the Gammacor most like, they still just don't seem to be "up-to-par" apparently. That's the crappy part about some incarnons and their balance. Personally I'd have liked it if all incarnons are perhaps just A TOUCH better than Kuva/Tenet weapons...all of them, then we probably wouldn't have too big of an issue with balance. 

But well, when it comes to Synoid Gammacor incarnon, even if it's worse than the Atomos incarnon, dps-wise, I'd probably take it for the syndicate Entropy effect, why not. that's 25% extra energy. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by SprinKah

[Traumtulpe]

46 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

But well, when it comes to Synoid Gammacor incarnon, even if it's worse than the Atomos incarnon, dps-wise, I'd probably take it for the syndicate Entropy effect, why not. that's 25% extra energy.

Yeah, if you were using the Gammacor before (for the occasional energy), you'll be happy to use it still with some decent stat buffs. Which, in 2022, were 0.33% of players.

The issue I have with this Incarnon weapon is that the actual Incarnon mode is useless. It's too clunky to charge and has too little range to be used for utility, and is not fit for dealing damage. This issue is further exacerbated by the fact that the Atomos is, as I've mention many times now, just straight up better. A lot better in fact.

By the way, my suspicion for why this weeks Incarnons are objectively worse and weaker than previous ones is DE's misguided focus on usage statistics; They probably thought to themselves "Players will be able to directly buy these weapons with plat, skipping all the grind. This will invariably mean more people using them, which we do not want at all costs. So we'll make them straight up worse on purpose, to balance the easier access out"

Edited August 4, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[GPrime96]

13 hours ago, SprinKah said:

 BOAR however, well, I dunno about you, I did tests with Steel path enemies in Simulacrum and I tell ya, I don't think a lot of people would really bother TOO MUCH with its normal form probably, not to say that it's BAD no no...it's jsut the incarnon form kinda outshines it still, which is a shame. The beam shoots faster, has better crits, better range, no fall-off, less dmg but DPS's overall way better and can chain with basically the entire map...yeah. I'll probably still use the normal form still...simply, bc I hate how the incarnon form functions...cuz it's kinda boring but that's just me. 

Boar’s Incarnon is one of those Incarnons i don’t see the hype about. Everytime i use it, i only think of it as a poor man’s Cascadia Flare Beam Weapon but without the damage.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

42 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

Boar’s Incarnon is one of those Incarnons i don’t see the hype about. Everytime i use it, i only think of it as a poor man’s Cascadia Flare Beam Weapon but without the damage.

So basically, what it does is give you three auto aiming beams that further chain to nearby enemies. Unlike Furis Incarnon, this one is affected by adjusting the weapon's range. If you mod for the usual Viral+HM, this will clear rooms of lvl 200+ SP enemies much faster than Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron.

It can handle anything up to Eximus but for tougher enemies, you'll have to switch back to normal mode.

[SprinKah]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

Boar’s Incarnon is one of those Incarnons i don’t see the hype about. Everytime i use it, i only think of it as a poor man’s Cascadia Flare Beam Weapon but without the damage.

well i dunno about NO DAMAGE, it is a bit funky with enemy-sticking, that sometimes it kills the enemy you're aiming at a little slower than the other enemies that the other tendrils chained to, but I've tested it on lvl 180 SP enemies corrupted heavy gunners, it basically shreds them no issue.

Though I have to admit...it certainly has somewhat better BALANCE between 2 modes than the Torid...but still...I don't think you can say that the incarnon form of the Boar is bad...like...at all. I don't think ANY non-incarnon beam weapons we have right now is on par with the Torid and Boar in terms of beam-type weapon...which is a shame...DE might as well never release another beam weapon again from here on out, the whole MEGA chain-link thing is pretty silly at this point. 

59 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

So basically, what it does is give you three auto aiming beams that further chain to nearby enemies. Unlike Furis Incarnon, this one is affected by adjusting the weapon's range. If you mod for the usual Viral+HM, this will clear rooms of lvl 200+ SP enemies much faster than Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron.

It can handle anything up to Eximus but for tougher enemies, you'll have to switch back to normal mode.

the only enemies that are tougher than Eximus are probably just Acolytes and Demolysts in Steel path...which only really appear in very specific situations...I still wonder why people fixate on them so much tbh.

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Yeah, if you were using the Gammacor before (for the occasional energy), you'll be happy to use it still with some decent stat buffs. Which, in 2022, were 0.33% of players.

The issue I have with this Incarnon weapon is that the actual Incarnon mode is useless. It's too clunky to charge and has too little range to be used for utility, and is not fit for dealing damage. This issue is further exacerbated by the fact that the Atomos is, as I've mention many times now, just straight up better. A lot better in fact.

By the way, my suspicion for why this weeks Incarnons are objectively worse and weaker than previous ones is DE's misguided focus on usage statistics; They probably thought to themselves "Players will be able to directly buy these weapons with plat, skipping all the grind. This will invariably mean more people using them, which we do not want at all costs. So we'll make them straight up worse on purpose, to balance the easier access out"

I'm not gonna justify whether or not the Synoid Gammacor is bad or good. Its incarnon form is most definitely not as good as the Atomos Incarnon overall but.... that doesn't really matter tbh, while not as crazy as Atomos, it does its job sufficiently enough + with some added passive benefits, perhaps it won't kill heavier enemies like Heavy Gunners or Bombards as effectively as Atomos, but at the end of the day...it's still an AoE weapon, 5m maybe not anything crazy as far as AoE explosive weapons go, but it's enough to kill big mobs of lighter enemies...we might be fixating too much on spawning in Corrupted Heavy Gunners ONLY in Simulacrum for tests, they're not the only enemies after all. 

And I ain't gonna lie to you...I think most of the incarnons we got this week are the most BALANCED, if we take into account ALL OTHER NON-INCARNON WEAPONS, the majority of Warframe weapons. Not too strong and not too weak. I personally love all the "MID" incarnons WAAYYY more than the "STRONG" ones, because they're much closer to what we got with Kuva/Tenet weapons. 

Whether or not it's true what you said about DE's intention, who knows...but PERSONALLY, I'd love incarnon weapons to be more in-lined like the Kuva/Tenet system, in terms of power level, bringing older/outdated weapons up to par a bit but not make them COMPLETELY BROKEN (like Latron, Miter, Torid, etc...). Perhaps a bit controvertial...but I'd much prefer if DE never release incarnons as strong as those ever again...

Obviously DE's NOT going to make everything incarnon....and once it's all said and done...some weapons that are old and outdated will still be untouched, and at the end of the day, only a couple of handful of weapons will truly be proper choices (mostly incarnons).

Hell, we all thought Kuva, Tenet, Primes (and upcomign Infested stuff) will be THE WAY DE does to make old weapons better...but before that even happened, they released Incarnon Genesis which even made pretty much ALL Kuva/Tenet/Primes feel pointless to obtain. I think even when DE puts out infested lich weapons (which they mentioned in dev AMA), most likely a lot of the more notable incarnons will still make them look like chumps, that's the issue. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by SprinKah

[SprinKah]

On 2023-08-04 at 4:35 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Yeah, if you were using the Gammacor before (for the occasional energy), you'll be happy to use it still with some decent stat buffs. Which, in 2022, were 0.33% of players.

The issue I have with this Incarnon weapon is that the actual Incarnon mode is useless. It's too clunky to charge and has too little range to be used for utility, and is not fit for dealing damage. This issue is further exacerbated by the fact that the Atomos is, as I've mention many times now, just straight up better. A lot better in fact.

By the way, my suspicion for why this weeks Incarnons are objectively worse and weaker than previous ones is DE's misguided focus on usage statistics; They probably thought to themselves "Players will be able to directly buy these weapons with plat, skipping all the grind. This will invariably mean more people using them, which we do not want at all costs. So we'll make them straight up worse on purpose, to balance the easier access out"

ok, I finally got the Synoid Gammacor incarnon, I'm not sure if ur really interested in hearing a verdict from me but I'ma real with you chief, it's not AT ALL bad.

Tested all kinds of setups with it, different perks and what not. Compared it to Atomos as well, against lvl 180 corrupter hevay gunners Steel path Simulacrum. the DPS of Synoid Gammacor's incarnon form isn't even that much worse than the Atomos Incarnon form, of course we ain't talking about the normal form here, which I'll say, Atomos's still better of course but that's not surprising, the whole chain-link thing for beam weapons is ridiculous.

But when it comes to incarnon form, I found that the Synoid Gammacor is more or less basically almost the same as Atomos. DPS is just SLIGHTLY less, but it has suck-in stun, INNATE COLD procs (which is bloody amazing this update), you can use it for quick-switch to primary if you so choose for improved dmg, The Atomas has like 2.9+ range than Synoid Gammacor but damage-falloff exists and Atomos is like 80%, which is not the best, Synoid Gammacor has suck-in which will deal full dmg in the epicentre. And of course, the syndicate AoE effect.

All in all, I think Synoid Gammacor has some trade-offs with the Atomos, it probably doesnt have as much DPS as Atomos but it has a lot of things going for it as well, it certainly isn't USELESS. Plus, if it means anything, once DE finally got the stats in and tweak the riven dispositions for Incarnon Genesis weapons in the future, which they said, I think Atomos will still not have as high dispo as Synoid Gammacor, I'm sure that will help it alot...which of course, it still has higher riven dispo than Atomos currently. 

Maybe I didn't read fully, apparently people above mentioned it "blasting enemies in different directions", it doesn't do that so I'm not really sure what's up with that..., if it actually did that, I'd agree that it'd be a lot closer to USELESS. 

Not to mention, I haven't fully forma'd my Synoid Gammacor, compared to my Atomos. Probably doesn't make a big difference but it is sth. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by SprinKah

[Traumtulpe]

34 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

[...]

Sure, I appreciate the feedback. Since I'm not going to bother getting the Gammacor I can just go by the stats otherwise. But the stats sure make it look bad:

Atomos normal: 53 damage 34% crit 2.7x Heat / +3 target chains

Gammacor normal: 30 damage 26% 2.2x Magnetic / +50% attack speed (equals to 45 damage total), minor multishot

So the Atomos does significantly more damage against single targets, and hits up to 4 targets in total... that's looking like a total blowout to me.

And no, Cold procs don't add much damage. should be about 12% on the Gammacor (assuming 9 procs). Do you have any idea how much damage 9 heat procs do? Let's just say a lot more than 12%.

[SprinKah]

51 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Sure, I appreciate the feedback. Since I'm not going to bother getting the Gammacor I can just go by the stats otherwise. But the stats sure make it look bad:

Atomos normal: 53 damage 34% crit 2.7x Heat / +3 target chains

Gammacor normal: 30 damage 26% 2.2x Magnetic / +50% attack speed (equals to 45 damage total), minor multishot

So the Atomos does significantly more damage against single targets, and hits up to 4 targets in total... that's looking like a total blowout to me.

And no, Cold procs don't add much damage. should be about 12% on the Gammacor (assuming 9 procs). Do you have any idea how much damage 9 heat procs do? Let's just say a lot more than 12%.

When it comes to the normal mode, sure I do understand that the Atomos is definitely better than the Gammacor. But like I stated, i'm talking incarnon mod mostly here, incarnon mode of Synoid Gammacor has a lot of merits compared to the incarnon mode of Atomos

Cold stacks add a flat 50%+ crit damage now, and the fact that you can build Viral+heat with innate Cold procs, is pretty good, You can also build for Corrosive+heat, which will result to getting Corrosive, Blast, Heat(if dirrect dmg) and Cold procs at the same time. Coupled with the suck-in, can be pretty good synergy for status priming quick switching combo stuff (idk much about that stuff).

But hey, if that's not enough to care about, I do understand, no need to go the extra mile for a weapon you don't quite care about too much in the first place. I personally just like trying out weapons and the SYnoid Gammacor incarnon is interesting enough for me. Maybe people just somehow expects more Dual Toxocysts or Lex incarnon, quite frankly I don't care too much for that. 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by SprinKah

[Traumtulpe]

42 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

Cold stacks add a flat 50%+ crit damage now, and the fact that you can build Viral+heat with innate Cold procs

It honestly disappoints me to see this, people just reading "+50%" and assuming that's good without understanding 50% of what, or opportunity costs.

There's seriously people thinking Corrosive + Cold is a thing now, like Viral + Heat is. Let me be very blunt here: It isn't. Not by a long shot. You never ever ever mod for Corrosive + Cold (unless maybe on a primer).

Take a look at this:

On 2023-07-28 at 5:55 AM, Traumtulpe said:

Here's some pictures for visualization. No Cold procs:

9 Cold procs:

I'd rate this as "good idea in principle, but not even worth thinking about for one second in practice".

That's the difference 9 Cold procs make, everything else being equal. 12% damage increase best case scenario. Would you put a mod on your weapon that says "deal 12% more damage after 5 seconds of continous fire"? No you wouldn't.

A single Heat proc will deal more damage than 9 Cold procs - it'll also reduce the target's actions by 100% (with one proc!) instead of 90% with 9 procs. Nevermind the 50% armor reduction. Or the fact that Heat stacks infinitely, only getting stronger with each stack, while Cold is capped at 9.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[SprinKah]

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

It honestly disappoints me to see this, people just reading "+50%" and assuming that's good without understanding 50% of what, or opportunity costs.

There's seriously people thinking Corrosive + Cold is a thing now, like Viral + Heat is. Let me be very blunt here: It isn't. Not by a long shot. You never ever ever mod for Corrosive + Cold (unless maybe on a primer).

Take a look at this:

That's the difference 9 Cold procs make, everything else being equal. 12% damage increase best case scenario. Would you put a mod on your weapon that says "deal 12% more damage after 5 seconds of continous fire"? No you wouldn't.

A single Heat proc will deal more damage than 9 Cold procs - it'll also reduce the target's actions by 100% (with one proc!) instead of 90% with 9 procs. Nevermind the 50% armor reduction. Or the fact that Heat stacks infinitely, only getting stronger with each stack, while Cold is capped at 9.

I didn't go for Corrosive+Cold, I TESTED Corrosive Heat, which of course, it didn't really do that much more than Viral Heat so ofc I didn't stick with it.

Of course, I ain't saying we should build SPECIFICALLY for Cold, it's simply there for the bonus crit damage, suppliment stuff. Heat is at the end of the day will be the main damage dealer...and it's not like you can't build for Heat procs with Synoid Gammacor, which i do, that's literally the only way to truly deal DoT damage on secondary beam weapons honestly.

That's to say, obviously you won't be pulling as crazy Heat stacks like Atomos (at least with NORMAL MODE), but you will still be procing a lot of heat procs still, that's just the way it is with beam weapons, it's nothing to scoff at. Cold is proc'd INNATELY no matter the elemental types you build for with Gammacor incarnon mode, which i assume you know, I didn't BUILD SPECIFICALLY FOR IT, so you're basically getting both Heat and Cold stacks with it.

Like I said, it's also good for combo builds, applying Cold procs for your Primary/Melee for that extra crit damage. 

To summarize:

Normal mode: Atomos > Synoid Gammacor (obviously)

Incarnon mode: TTK-wise, practically the same, just different mechanics. Basically pick-your-poison. I personally think Synoird Gammacor offers more benefits (innate Cold procs + suck-in, good for synergy)

Both with this build: (Synoid Gammacor here, with non-maxed out stuff.)

Spoiler

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by SprinKah

[GPrime96]

3 hours ago, SprinKah said:

I didn't go for Corrosive+Cold, I TESTED Corrosive Heat, which of course, it didn't really do that much more than Viral Heat so ofc I didn't stick with it.

i still wouldn’t rely on Cold for the main damage dealer over heat.

[SprinKah]

12 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

i still wouldn’t rely on Cold for the main damage dealer over heat.

Of course not, like I said, it's just suppliment stuff, didn't even need to put in a cold mod for SYnoid Gammacor incarnon bc it procs Cold no matter what elementals u got, I still built for Heat procs, and coupled with the crit damage increase from Cold procs, it does also increase the heat proc damage as well.

Having Cold procs by default is always a plus, it's way better than useless Blast damage from Atomos though, for sure.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SprinKah