Spoiler heavy question about warframe survivability lore wise

[Hexerin]

Ya'll are forgetting one little detail: To change things, DE would have to recode large sections of the game. The Operator still utilizing the Somatic Link could literally just be DE not bothering to expend the considerable dev time it would take to update all that.

I also want to point out that we probably aren't done with expanding on the lore of the Somatic Link room anyways, so DE might be just leaving the rework on all that until we reach the point where they're going to update the Somatic Link room. Reason I bring this up, is because of something that caught my attention the literal first time I entered the room and did my usual "Ooo, new area... time to explore!" thing.

On both sides of the room, there is a single socket missing its connection. There's no way that isn't intentional, and that screams to me that we're going to unlock further power once we get those sockets connected. If you're looking at the Somatic Link and wondering "Yea, but where would those sockets connect to though?"

Here's a couple physical locations that could reasonably be considered as connection points, in my opinion.

Spoiler

Spoiler

DE could also just have the story involve an expansion to the Somatic Link, just straight up adding connectors on the back where the rest of the sockets link up.

Oh, also. There's these plates on the ground on either side of the room. Should look very familiar to everyone by this point.

My imagination on what those could involve in future story expansions goes wild every time I see them.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Hexerin

[CatboyPrincess]

16 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Oh, also. There's these plates on the ground on either side of the room. Should look very familiar to everyone by this point.

Could you explain? I have no idea why they should be familiar.

---

Having read the thread (but barely remembering what happened in TWW), my current understanding is: the Operator/Drifter (Op/Dr) literally exists in the somatic link chair and can perform transference thru it. The chair is a form of technological assistance but it was mandatory prior to the events of TWW.

Post-TWW, the Op/Dr can physically teleport from the chair when they go into Op/Dr form in-mission, but are otherwise in the chair while they control their Warframe by default. During relevant quests, they opt to physically manifest outside the orbiter, near their Warframe. When they do that, they are no longer in the chair (but the chair can still serve as a restore point).

It seems that now, the Op/Dr can choose to perform transference thru the somatic link or directly thru their void power.

I think at this point, it's kind of up to player interpretation.

They can probably still use the chair; it's a lot safer and they might have repaired it (with Ordis's help). My guess is that the downside is that if they're only projecting a physical form when you go into Op/Dr mode in-mission (i.e. they are still physically sitting in the chair, at least "mostly" corporeally-speaking), they can't use 100% of their void power to fight.

On the other hand, they can definitely use a sort of full-body transference wherein they entirely dissolve and possess the Warframe and then can straight up walk out of it. I reckon that this "full" transference lets them use 100% of their void power to fight with the downside that they are at much higher risk of actual injury.

The way I'd describe it is that the Op/Dr can now choose how much of themself they physically put into existing at different spaces. 100% full transference is essentially teleportation at will with all the risk and benefits that would entail of physically being at a scene -- 100% of physical interactions occur to the Op/Dr. But they could also choose 50% transference and project a partial physical form, that also has 50% of physical interactions that would otherwise occur. Essentially, they can choose the ratio of how much of regular physics they interact with at any given point in time and space (in other words, how much they "exist" at any given point in time and space).

 

On 2023-08-12 at 3:59 PM, Loza03 said:

This is all highly speculative, so I would by no means take it as canon, but I believe that the Z-kid's survivability is based mostly on their own perception of their survivability.

Yeah, I would agree with this. It's kind of like The Matrix (1999), with the caveat that Op/Dr's physical ability is inversely proportional to how physically "safe" they want to be.

They could choose to be like a ghost and scout out an area, invincible and/or invisible, but wouldn't be able to interact with anything. Or, they can choose to be in the flesh and melt steel beams with their void powers, but be equally vulnerable to being melted.

This makes the most sense to me. They could make a perfect clone of themself but both versions would only be approx. 50% real, or they could adjust that ratio, or even make multiple clones and then distribute their existence ratio among those clones whoever they feel. I'd reckon too that being 5 different clones at once would be a lot harder to control/coordinate than just being a single entity.

Anyway, very cool stuff.

My belief is that if the Op/Dr was ever legitimately ambushed and killed while just chilling or sleeping or otherwise unaware, they're about as vulnerable and dead as anything else of their size and stature, minus maybe their void "soul" (or "essence" or whatever). This would explain why it's so important for their orbiter to be cloaked and safely hidden. Same thing for Lua and all the caskets there.

This would also explain why it's possible for the Op/Dr to see their own body while controlling their Warframe; they can see themself because they're only putting their consciousness into the Warframe. I imagine that when they transfer out and actually participate in the fighting, there's very little of them left in the somatic link chair (probably just some void soul/spirit/essence).

Then, the somatic link chair can be both a technological augmentation or a crutch.

Edited August 14, 2023 by CatboyPrincess

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Schrodingers Operator. The Operator is both simultaneously safe in the chair, and also projecting themselves into the Warframe.

 

Destroying the Warframe won't kill the Operator because they're safe in the chair. Destroying the Orbiter wont kill the Operator because they're safe in the Warframe. Killing the Operator wont kill the Operator because the Operator wasn't present to be killed

Edited August 14, 2023 by (XBOX)CaligulaTwily

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Schrodingers Operator. The Operator is both simultaneously safe in the chair, and also projecting themselves into the Warframe.

 

Destroying the Warframe won't kill the Operator because they're safe in the chair. Destroying the Orbiter wont kill the Operator because they're safe in the Warframe. Killing the Operator wont kill the Operator because the Operator wasn't present to be killed

Funny theory falls apart when you realize the entire point of schrodingers thought experiment was that you simply dont know if the wave function has collapsed without observing it.

Would be very funny if the way to kill the operator is just to peep on them while theyre in the somatic link, kill their warframe, then kill them though.

[XaoGarrent]

On 2023-08-13 at 4:54 PM, Joezone619 said:

The way i understand it killing a tenno is much more permanent post-new war then to kill anyone else. From what i understand, we the tenno operator & drifter are the paradox, when we made the deal with the void entity/man in the wall, he combined every single version of us throughout the multiverse into the operator, and then took the drifter separately to duviri.

After duviri and the new war, the drifter and operator fused into 1 entity that can switch between the two. But if every version of us is all combined into 1 entity, killing us would kill every version of us in the multiverse at once. I think this means that killing us is as simple as killing anyone, assuming your actually strong enough to do that, but unlike others eternalism no longer applies to us.

Theoretically, you could kill captain vor and through eternalism go to another version of events and meet another captain vor again alive and well. But if you killed the operator/drifter and used eternalism to hop timelines, the operator/drifter wouldn't be there, they wouldn't be in any timeline except the current one. That's to say every single version of the operator exist on one timeline now thanks to the man in the wall, including the drifter.

TLDR: Post new war, the operator can be killed just like anyone else, and cannot return anymore as every operator in the multiverse is now 1 person in 1 universe, a paradox.

Alternately, when wally fused every other timeline's operator into you, all of their lives also became yours to spend- Potentially infinitely if the multiverse is infinite. Remember, we're dealing with something ancient and cosmic in nature, such creatures in fiction are often able to operate on "infinite" terms, even in ways that seem to defy logical physics.

If this is the case, every single time the operator "dies," in or out of the Warframe, he pops back into existence as if it was an alternate timeline operator that died. Perhaps to the point of actual, absolute immortality. Basically, the "quantum immortality" meme, but visible and observable to all.

Edited August 15, 2023 by XaoGarrent

[Joezone619]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Alternately, when wally fused every other timeline's operator into you, all of their lives also became yours to spend- Potentially infinitely if the multiverse is infinite. Remember, we're dealing with something ancient and cosmic in nature, such creatures in fiction are often able to operate on "infinite" terms, even in ways that seem to defy logical physics.

If this is the case, every single time the operator "dies," in or out of the Warframe, he pops back into existence as if it was an alternate timeline operator that died. Perhaps to the point of actual, absolute immortality. Basically, the "quantum immortality" meme, but visible and observable to all.

Counterpoint, since all of them are fused, as in overlayed with each other, a sword through one operator's chest is a sword through every operator's chest. I think DE has made it very clear that we don't just have a bag of deus ex machina's to go throwing around, or was the scene with every version of us except for 2 all dying at once not obvious? "You ought to be more careful, I might not be around next time." -Drifter

Edited August 15, 2023 by Joezone619

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, CatboyPrincess said:

Could you explain? I have no idea why they should be familiar.

They're extremely common throughout the Orokin tilesets, and critical to progression in some missions.

Spoiler

There was one quest where they had energy cells you had to destroy. In other quests (and those aforementioned critical to progression missions) they have Orokin consoles on them (for example, Lua Spy you have to hack them to open certain doors).

In other words, these things serve more purposes than just simple automatic cover. They are housings for various Orokin system functions. The ones in the Somatic Link room could potentially be involved with unlocking more features for our Operator.

[XaoGarrent]

15 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Counterpoint, since all of them are fused, as in overlayed with each other, a sword through one operator's chest is a sword through every operator's chest. I think DE has made it very clear that we don't just have a bag of deus ex machina's to go throwing around, or was the scene with every version of us except for 2 all dying at once not obvious? "You ought to be more careful, I might not be around next time." -Drifter

All that makes clear is that the operator and the drifter don't have a full sense of their own survivability. Neither do we. But the operator dies *frequenly* in actual gameplay, and it's accompanied by some pretty supernatural FX to denote that *something* is not normal.

And again, you're assuming you understand how what the man in the wall did works.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

On 2023-08-12 at 3:59 PM, Loza03 said:

This is all highly speculative, so I would by no means take it as canon, but I believe that the Z-kid's survivability is based mostly on their own perception of their survivability.

I can totally imagine the player being the perception and when a player quits Warframe… 

[Joezone619]

7 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

All that makes clear is that the operator and the drifter don't have a full sense of their own survivability. Neither do we. But the operator dies *frequenly* in actual gameplay, and it's accompanied by some pretty supernatural FX to denote that *something* is not normal.

And again, you're assuming you understand how what the man in the wall did works.

Actually, operator and drifter never truly"die" in normal missions, they always get left with 5 health left and just pop back into frame, not to mention it implies each and every single little thing that ever happens in normal missions is cannon in the lore.

Besides, your answers assumes the same, who's to say any of us understand what the man in the wall really did. That's why these are all theories, not explanations. You want concrete answers? Your gonna have to wait on DE to finish it.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Joezone619

[XaoGarrent]

2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Actually, operator and drifter never truly"die" in normal missions, they always get left with 5 health left and just pop back into frame, not to mention it implies each and every single little thing that ever happens in normal missions is cannon in the lore.

Besides, your answers assumes the same, who's to say any of us understand what the man in the wall really did. That's why these are all theories, not explanations. You want concrete answers? Your gonna have to wait on DE to finish it.

My theory is closer to what the game says and implies.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-08-15 at 5:39 AM, Joezone619 said:

Counterpoint, since all of them are fused, as in overlayed with each other, a sword through one operator's chest is a sword through every operator's chest. I think DE has made it very clear that we don't just have a bag of deus ex machina's to go throwing around, or was the scene with every version of us except for 2 all dying at once not obvious? "You ought to be more careful, I might not be around next time." -Drifter

It doesnt mean they are actual different versions from other universes. Just that Wally shows other outcomes. Eternalism itself isnt based on a multiverse, just that everything happens all at once from past through present and future, and we observe a single part of all that in our everyday life. Duviri for instance isnt a (or in a) different universe, it is located in the Void which is part of the universe/reality of the tenno. The drifter also tells this to the tenno by saying a choice has to be made regarding who is going to finish things, which is followed by the two becoming one, either in the shape of the tenno or the drifter depending on our choice.

Us switching avatar like we switch underwear if we like has nothing to do with how things actually turned out. It would simply be too harsh out of a design perspective to remove everything you might have bought and hard lock you into your cosmetic choice i.e tenno or drifter. Just as how we can change the appearance of our tenno, including gender, voice and other things as we like, it is all just cosmetic.

However, reality can get altered, but it doesnt end up with several different realities. It simply means that when things for instance happen in the undercroft that is the reason why it happened as it happened in reality. As Teshin says, some of the events in the undercroft are mirrored from events in reality that has happened or has not happened yet. But it having happened is only how Teshin comprehends it, since he has experienced or known about it before ending up on Duviri. However time within the undercroft and duviri doesnt flow alongside reality, so while we fight an event in the undercroft it still hasnt happened in reality, so we can influence it through the outcome in achieving or failing our goal. All of it likely a cause of the power of the void and it spreading more and more into Sol, and the undercroft being the very edge between reality and void.

does it mean every single event is tied to something that happened, happens or will happen in reality, probably not. Some are likely just Zariman explorers from the different factions that have ended up there, or mind ghosts of the Drifter, like the Dax and Thrax units, similar to how their exsistance on the Zariman is described.