PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

18 hours ago, ConDucktorWhirl said:

I'm brining it up on EVERY new DE post I see here and on facebook for what it's worth

Iv been bringing the herloom pack up on xbox, play station, pc (cant do switch i dont have one) this forum, Twitter, Facebook everywhere DE is im going to post about the herloom pack and the addition of a 4th pack thats only the cosmetics and skins and thats affordable for everyone

 

18 hours ago, ConDucktorWhirl said:

I'm brining it up on EVERY new DE post I see here and on facebook for what it's worth

And if your like me doing the same thing thats good people that don't break and push back when the devs do something wrong to the comunity who have been with them for years are the people we need to keep the game and devs from becoming another EA

[Lucabaduka]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

Steam is only able to tell you player concurnecy. Nothing else. SteamDB has no real information about total population of games.

You literally linked something that factors reddit activity into determining the volume of the Warframe playerbase. That is not remotely a reliable or accurate source of information. I could ask someone to post on the subreddit and your site would presumably pick that up as some indication of an active player. Ridiculous.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Lucabaduka

[Cerikus]

43 minutes ago, Lucabaduka said:

You literally linked something that factors reddit activity into determining the volume of the Warframe playerbase. That is not remotely a reliable or accurate source of information. I could ask someone to post on the subreddit and your site would presumably pick that up as some indication of an active player. Ridiculous.

You need SteamDB, this: and a few functional braincells to make an informed guess about Warframe player population. It would be something like: "more than 500k, but less than 750k". If MMOpopulation is able to use other sources together with it's main source (SteamDB) to give better approximation, good. Also, it's 2023, AI algorithms can sweep the web in a few seconds and learn a lot only by analyzing trends, searches and web requests. Pages like warframe.market can easily provide a lot of info about player activity. The figure on MMOpopulation is absolutely not precise, but even if the deviation was 50k, the info you get from it is still good enough.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cerikus

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 horas, Cerikus dijo:

You need SteamDB, this: and a few functional braincells to make an informed guess about Warframe player population. It would be something like: "more than 500k, but less than 750k". If MMOpopulation is able to use other sources together with it's main source (SteamDB) to give better approximation, good. Also, it's 2023, AI algorithms can sweep the web in a few seconds and learn a lot only by analyzing trends, searches and web requests. Pages like warframe.market can easily provide a lot of info about player activity. The figure on MMOpopulation is absolutely not precise, but even if the deviation was 50k, the info you get from it is still good enough.

None of that is so necessary to know the number of active players. Just looking at a tennocon tells you about at least half of the active players.

Usually the tennocons have 300k+ live viewers and not everyone watches the tennocons at the same time, due to work, studies, lack of time or because the time in their country does not allow it, taking into account what i already mentioned.

Edited September 24, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[--LA--Vengeance]

Tbh I think it's 300k at the best. Doubt downloading from the official site has more compared to Steam and NA def has more Xbox players than PC compared to EU (I frequently switch between the two). In NA time even on the web market, you see like 5 ppl online that sell some item (I don't ever recall this being so low, but I was mostly off the past 2 years so some things they did in the game got a bit easier for me to notice as well. Hespar and Aeolak drop winkwink, people selling parts for the price that might be lower for 10pl than going straight to the in-game market and purchasing it for full price). Once they are done making this better for new players (lololol), maybe they want to sit and wonder why clans of 30-50-100 members end up having 2-3 active members in a duration that is less than a year. I'm not even counting players like me who barely have anything to do at this point and how it's completely normal for us to step back when it comes to playing, which is normal.
 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 27 minutos, --LA--Vengeance dijo:

Tbh I think it's 300k at the best. Doubt downloading from the official site has more compared to Steam and NA def has more Xbox players than PC compared to EU (I frequently switch between the two). In NA time even on the web market, you see like 5 ppl online that sell some item (I don't ever recall this being so low, but I was mostly off the past 2 years so some things they did in the game got a bit easier for me to notice as well. Hespar and Aeolak drop winkwink, people selling parts for the price that might be lower for 10pl than going straight to the in-game market and purchasing it for full price). Once they are done making this better for new players (lololol), maybe they want to sit and wonder why clans of 30-50-100 members end up having 2-3 active members in a duration that is less than a year. I'm not even counting players like me who barely have anything to do at this point and how it's completely normal for us to step back when it comes to playing, which is normal.
 

450 - 500k would be the closest numbers. If you take the number of views on tennocon has a number in the player base, the tennocon usually starts around 2PM EDT and in Asian countries that would be 1-3AM, the time varies a lot depending on the region and taking into account the schedules, the number of 300k are mostly Western players.

I and all my friends don't play with steam sir, I can say by statistics that every 7 out of 10 pc players do not play on Steam.  Steam doesn't have even half the players. So it doesn't make much sense to take Steam charts as moss reliable when it comes to player counts.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[--LA--Vengeance]

8 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

450 - 500k would be the closest numbers. If you take the number of views on tennocon has a number in the player base, the tennocon usually starts around 2PM EDT and in Asian countries that would be 1-3AM, the time varies a lot depending on the region and taking into account the schedules, the number of 300k are mostly Western players.

I and all my friends don't play with steam sir, I can say by statistics that every 7 out of 10 pc players do not play on Steam.  Steam doesn't have even half the players. So it doesn't make much sense to take Steam charts as moss reliable when it comes to player counts.

 

While that is possible indeed, I wouldn't rely on Tennocon views. Some people might be just curious, then Tennocon also attracts a fair number of people to try the game out - that doesn't mean they will stick around as well. Never said that every or even half of the players come from Steam, just that the number isn't drastically higher compared to Steam (like 40k Steam, 400k official). It is difficult overall to rely on any of that information because you have ''monthly active players'' which I assume counts each player that logged in once during that month. I can log in one day for 5 mins and then the rest of the 30 days be offline. Was I really active? To who, my clan members, my friends, random players in the game? No, I claimed one my daily, put another forma to craft and went off. Was I active by some list? Yeah, I logged on.
Like hell, I even want this game to have as many players as it can get but I also put expectations to have that respect in return, which this pack unfortunately was everything opposite of that.

I'm going back to the topic of the pack.

This again comes from someone who has over 4k hours in-game, helped a bunch of players, financially supported the game whenever I could, always had nice words to say about it even when I disagreed with things they did or wasn't playing as much, and never went on a big rant/got offended by something they did. Until now.
Ironically enough, I'm heavy into fashionframe and like a gremlin who likes shiny things (which these skins are and I do like the design), my starter was Mag and for that reason alone she always gonna have a special spot in my heart. But from someone who knows how this pack would work if everyone or the majority would remain silent if that was the case, we would be getting in the future every pack with this price. Now, even people who have purchased it fail to see the bigger picture.
1. Unlike the rest of the things, this isn't affordable for 1/3 of EU (I'm just mentioning only EU here because the monthly salary in EU can be either 500, 1500 or 3k)
2. As mentioned above, I would like to get a skin for Mag. But then, I would also have to purchase for Frost (no hate for Frost, just that I almost never play him). Would I buy food in the amount of 35-45$ or some clothing that I would never eat/wear? How did we as humanity come to that point to pay more for digital items than irl items? Digital stuff have no date of expiry, they don't take spot in stores so other new items can't come and can be purchased in endless copies.
3. For those who afforded it without issue, wouldn't it still be better for everyone if they paid less, more reasonable price? At the end of the day, not like you lose anything, more like it's a win/win for everyone involved (but the greed).
4. There are only 2 profile titles - for founders (never spoke on this topic here before, but in my opinion, that is absolutely fair, they saved the game and company from drowning and made it possible for the rest of us to play it later on) and ''10-year supporter'' (just the name itself is very wrong). I worked as QA and just for this alone, I could give at least 5 other alternatives to how it could be handled which wouldn't hurt players or the company.

And I really hope players won't drop this soon and pretend it never happened.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

And I really hope players won't drop this soon and pretend it never happened.

It won't, At alteast most people here have agreed to keep this topic alive, even after the Pack vanishes, at least I know I'll save it, be a reminder of what they've done.

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

And I really hope players won't drop this soon and pretend it never happened.

Unfortunately that already happened. That is simply how it works. It's not that people accepted it, but there is only a limited amount of energy a normal average human can put into complaining about something so inconsequential. It's a problem about virtual nothing in a videogame. People have enough real life problems to care about this for more than a few weeks. It is what it is.

[--LA--Vengeance]

33 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Unfortunately that already happened. That is simply how it works. It's not that people accepted it, but there is only a limited amount of energy a normal average human can put into complaining about something so inconsequential. It's a problem about virtual nothing in a videogame. People have enough real life problems to care about this for more than a few weeks. It is what it is.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough with what I said. I don't plan on sitting and commenting here every day or something like that.
When or if this repeats, don't rush to swipe the credit card, but choose the uno reverse - you gave me 3 months to purchase something at the abnormal price? I give you 3 months to change the way you work instead, otherwise my purchase will be a grand total of 0.

Edited September 24, 2023 by --LA--Vengeance

[Stafelund]

On 2023-09-23 at 12:08 AM, Circle_of_Psi said:

I know I said Bugs and such aren't what the players are targeting here but!:

You might be interested in this: The title alone is kind of an interesting topic, since there are a few games as of late that have turned around a total of 180 and blew their game up in a good way, No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk, etc.

While other games, like Dying Light 2, Saint's Row and others have kind just been destroyed by bad choices or being sold to others

I was going to make a reply about this but I keep forgetting, yeah, I'm going to tell that when I see the Heirloom Pack and get reminded of the bugs that appear from time to time from WF that hasn't been getting fixed even after people complained and from time to time players make threads about it for many years (Operator bug for example), I can't help but feel aggravated.

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

3 hours ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

And I really hope players won't drop this soon and pretend it never happened.

They probably will. Like the the Rifle Riven in the Luna renewal pack, that when opened turned into a Kitgun riven. They called it a bug and that was the last thing they said about it. I haven't purchased a Luna pack with rivens in since.

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough with what I said. I don't plan on sitting and commenting here every day or something like that.
When or if this repeats, don't rush to swipe the credit card, but choose the uno reverse - you gave me 3 months to purchase something at the abnormal price? I give you 3 months to change the way you work instead, otherwise my purchase will be a grand total of 0.

I honestly commend you for this approach and I actually share it, however I am not as optimistic about majority of players.
I may get some heat for this, but I will say it: Most people are sheep with memory of a goldfish.
It's the same everytime. Just look at how Blizzard and Bethesda drama went.
After 76 and predatory microtransactions everyone sweared the will never support Bethesda... Everyone bought Starfield.
After Grand Milk Theft, the sexual abuse and all the predatory systems put into Heartstone, Overwatch and all the drama with WoW, everyone hates Blizzard. Look how many people bought Diablo 4. It's always the same. Sad.

[--LA--Vengeance]

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

I honestly commend you for this approach and I actually share it, however I am not as optimistic about majority of players.
I may get some heat for this, but I will say it: Most people are sheep with memory of a goldfish.
It's the same everytime. Just look at how Blizzard and Bethesda drama went.
After 76 and predatory microtransactions everyone sweared the will never support Bethesda... Everyone bought Starfield.
After Grand Milk Theft, the sexual abuse and all the predatory systems put into Heartstone, Overwatch and all the drama with WoW, everyone hates Blizzard. Look how many people bought Diablo 4. It's always the same. Sad.

Haha regarding Ow, I have played it before the competitive was a thing. One of my fav stories regarding it is Blizz saying they have 50mil players... This was the account number, not the player number and it happened after season 3 where people were quick to forget how for the 3 seasons straight tanks and support got fewer points on wins, but lost the same on loss in ranked. Instead of resetting it for players after this was discovered, they left it as it is, ur points perma screwed unless you played way above the current rank. Not even going into coin flip, no limit in ranked, and that S#&$fest of water testing. So ppl bought a second account to reset their rank :) I did not, why the hell would I purchase a second account for the game I already got the biggest pack that was offered. When they pushed out ''Ow 2'' I laughed (quit long ago their games, except for HoTS, which is without a doubt 100% f2p but didn't get much-needed attention from players cuz LoL exists) and my very first comment on it was: Watch this, they had to ''make'' it Ow 2 for the excuse to remove lootboxes (HoTS originally had what Ow has now - no lootboxes, skins that you purchase with irl money which is fair, then they swapped to lootboxes which basically gave u everything for free just as Ow lootboxes did and after that they pulled every support from it, just keeping servers alive). I didn't play it for a long time and last year I got back into it a bit to see how things are going. That 10$ for battlepass seemed alright price, individual skin for 20$ did not. Then they put Lifeweaver, took me less than 5 minutes of gameplay to say: this is bad, he desperately needs a buff. Took this small indie company to buff him 1-2 days after I said it, oh my, they sure couldn't notice or afford a proper QA tester during that 3 months before he came out. Didn't log in ever since and the last thing I saw was them saying how PvE won't happen, it's expensive project just to push it out a week or two later after being slammed on the internet for it. And imagine, you again pay for it. Haha.

I like the story from Diablo, but Diablo IV is something I won't purchase.

A friend was about to buy Heirloom pack and I diverted him from it. He doesn't play Mag or Frost and to make it even worse, he has the most dreadful fashionframe you can possibly imagine (he didn't even care to check what ephemera is lol). He said it himself how he feels pressured by time and how he fears he gonna miss out on it. Just an impulsive purchase, not even something he would be super excited to have.

And another one of my favorites - NCSoft and their whale tier. For those who dunno, NCSoft customer support will treat you according to the money spent on the game. I also have a plot twist here: 100$ didn't mean much to them every month, so I decided to make it 0 instead. :)
I'm editing to actually give more details on this, cuz I believe it's an interesting story, especially since you could point out with a finger who purchased Heirloom pack just from their comments. I was not affected by this treatment by any means, their support even recovered me right away some items I accidentally deleted and personally never had issues with their support (but that's cuz they did get money from me). There was an event where you purchased some keys to open rewards. Now, those rewards could give you cosmetics and the rest just p2w stuff, to make it short. The clan I was in had completely free-to-play players, occasional smaller buyers, regular buyers (me), big boi whales (500$ and above monthly). One of those whales complained to customer support about ''bad luck'' with boxes, they gave him free keys (about 20 if I recall correctly, which wasn't a small amount), apologizing to him that he had a bad luck LMAO. Since I had absolutely horrible ''luck'' as well, we did a test. Now I contacted em, they bounced me to 5 dif people, avoiding answering why they gave only to specific people ''apology for bad luck''. F2p players would normally get ignored by their support for anything. So, you see, this never really was about me since I was getting answers. I just didn't want to spend time in the game which has that system and treats players like that.

Final Fantasy XIV is fairly ok, except that you feel forced to keep buying monthly sub for the sake of keeping your virtual house that you tossed out already a lot of in-game money to get (and hey, it has a limited amount too!). You purchase DLCs, you purchase some of the deco with irl money, and then you lose that same house lol.

Lost Ark I quit very soon after the game felt like work that you are not being paid for. You farm with the same people, the same amount of time, exact same things, to be set down back because of constant ''luck'' that ohohooh, you can purchase.

The worst is how I did like some of these games and I would have played them more (and kept purchasing stuff in it, cuz I said, I do like supporting and cosmetics), but it's really sad to see this repeated pattern of ''millions are not enough, billions are not enough''. What will ever be enough, then? They are milking people and players who mostly earn less than them. People purchasing packs for 90$? Let's make it 120$ in 3 months. Gaming companies treat people like they should purchase monthly the amount that is higher than monthly bills or food, which keeps you alive and healthy. This is a damn hobby and it's a choice to play it and support it. The reason why I did support Warframe is because I never felt like the game is constantly forcing me to buy something. You don't ask for it, I'm going to do it. Force it on me and you going from X amount to 0 real quick. And it could have been years of financial support and good word instead.

Edited September 24, 2023 by --LA--Vengeance

[--LA--Vengeance]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

They probably will. Like the the Rifle Riven in the Luna renewal pack, that when opened turned into a Kitgun riven. They called it a bug and that was the last thing they said about it. I haven't purchased a Luna pack with rivens in since.

Ah yeekes, didn't even know this but I logged in less than 10 times past 2 years. But that's the solution - what you did and quit purchasing something that didn't meet your expectations or their promises. And at least rivens you can farm (or plat to make up for that loss of rifle riven by getting another one).

I had a lot of things to catch up on and what I notice, those little subtle things in the past year that Hespar/Aeolak drop and abnormal prices on the market for the parts, the introduction of Chinese year event items (what was the price again, 500pl for the full pack?), some new player traps, circuit on purpose giving you constantly the weapon you don't have/even if you ever did think of yeeting some of the weapons to have some free slots, now you won't and so on, and so on.
Imagine celebrating your bday, but you tell guests to bring their own drink, snacks, dinner and cake and to not forget 90$. Lol.
I'm done with own salt regarding this topic, I think I said all that is on my mind.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 11 horas, Cerikus dijo:

Unfortunately that already happened. That is simply how it works. It's not that people accepted it, but there is only a limited amount of energy a normal average human can put into complaining about something so inconsequential. It's a problem about virtual nothing in a videogame. People have enough real life problems to care about this for more than a few weeks. It is what it is.

That it's exactly my point. Most of us have a family, work or study, you know, real things and real problems. As I already said, I will not spend my money in the game but i will play until the game stops entertaining me and that's it.

Repeating that you don't agree doesn't make any difference after we already said it once and they completely ''ignored'' us. ''Keeping the topic alive'' is a useless waste of energy. They have already ''responded'' to us and have not said anything about the issue in the last's Prime Time that I have seen (I think about 3-4 in last weeks...) to the point of not even promoting the packages in question in those Prime Time, trying to avoid the issue completely, for me it is more than clear that they understand that they have already addressed the issue.

And don't get me wrong... I'm not defending anyone here, but I think there are many problems in the game that affect us every day and I don't see a post with 100 pages complaining about it. Every time I have made a post complaining about a problem that has not been resolved for years, it is completely ignored by the player base.

It seems very hypocritical to me that ppl want to maintain a topic that has already been answered and that is obviously not going to bear any fruit just because ppl are stubborn and don't wanna understand but then do not really complain about the mechanical problems of the game have for years in the same way.

Edited September 24, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

I honestly commend you for this approach and I actually share it, however I am not as optimistic about majority of players.
I may get some heat for this, but I will say it: Most people are sheep with memory of a goldfish.
It's the same everytime. Just look at how Blizzard and Bethesda drama went.
After 76 and predatory microtransactions everyone sweared the will never support Bethesda... Everyone bought Starfield.
After Grand Milk Theft, the sexual abuse and all the predatory systems put into Heartstone, Overwatch and all the drama with WoW, everyone hates Blizzard. Look how many people bought Diablo 4. It's always the same. Sad.

You're lumping entirely different demographics of people together for your conclusion. The average person doesn't waste their time on Reddit or writing a YouTube comment and acting upon it. Most people just want to get home and play a game. The vocal nature of issues is a drop in the bucket, and it's at the discretion of the studio to care about their image in smaller gaming circles. DE has grown to the size to where they can start to act like their "older siblings" of the industry. DE used to necessitate their vocal playerbase's grace to continue the game in a successful direction. They've shown for a little while now that this demographic hardly matters and is an acceptable loss going forward.

The Heirloom package shatters the remaining good will for many that are in this camp, and I'm one of them. The only reason I still go along with this is because of a pessimistic view where I know I make no difference to begin with, and the outcome will not change regardless of my decisions. So even though I'm one of the most vocal players on this platform, I like the game still and stuff my face with the things I want to buy because I'm making them for selfish values about what I want with the game. People can be urged to act on principle, but in the end, we're all just a statistic on an Excel sheet, and the Heirloom packages will probably be seen as a success just like Regal Aya, even though it's a bad deal for the faith and trust it diminishes with the game as a whole for those old enough to know that things were better and more fair prior.

[PublikDomain]

On 2023-09-24 at 4:30 AM, Cerikus said:

I honestly commend you for this approach and I actually share it, however I am not as optimistic about majority of players.
I may get some heat for this, but I will say it: Most people are sheep with memory of a goldfish.
It's the same everytime. Just look at how Blizzard and Bethesda drama went.
After 76 and predatory microtransactions everyone sweared the will never support Bethesda... Everyone bought Starfield.
After Grand Milk Theft, the sexual abuse and all the predatory systems put into Heartstone, Overwatch and all the drama with WoW, everyone hates Blizzard. Look how many people bought Diablo 4. It's always the same. Sad.

Sure, most people are sheep without the ability to form long-term memories. The rest of us can carry the bag for them, nbd. They can ignore the issue or naysay or "I don't see the problem" or talk down to people or get angry that people are upset at multi-million-dollar-company for its latest anti-consumer move, but the people driving for change do often win here and Warframe is a better place for it. There are just as many community wins as there are examples in your list of consumer fails. And a lot of the people who said the same kinds of things about Prime Resurgence plat or separate Prime Accessories or Tau RNG or univac now enjoy these benefits they argued so passionately against.

And as a fun counter-example: look at how the recent Unity drama went. As the phrase goes, Unity #*!%ed around and then found out. And then they walked back. It's surely not a permanent win, and they're undoubtedly going to try something dumb again, and their reputation and trust is still irreparably destroyed, but the bad thing was walked back and went away, at least for now.

Edited September 25, 2023 by PublikDomain

[ABlindGuyPlays]

On 2023-08-30 at 2:08 PM, [DE]Megan said:

We missed the mark here and understand the feedback

No you don't. Thi is the prime resurgence greed issue all over again, except worse in that what many in the community asked for? Didn't happen.

Cheaper packs with less features but with the ability to get SOME of the cosmetics. 

As is? I see this as you trying to push to see what you can get away with and the community not unilaterally scream at you.

[Cerikus]

On 2023-09-24 at 9:36 PM, Voltage said:

You're lumping entirely different demographics of people together for your conclusion.

I don't think so. I think that the vocal minority is simply a sample of a whole. My friends who play the game and don't care about reading forums, nor about contributing to the discussion fall very easily into one of the "school of thoughts" on the matter. And this is true about everyone. And because the discussion is obviously two sided and very balanced, you can't say it's just a vocal minority that has one opinion. This whole thread is a perfect sample of a general sentiment.

On 2023-09-24 at 9:36 PM, Voltage said:

The Heirloom package shatters the remaining good will for many that are in this camp, and I'm one of them.

Really? That's surprising to me. Like I am unhappy about it, I will still probably buy the pack like you did (if I'll have money), and I would strongly recommend DE to roll back the ideology and actually fix the packs... But I don't see how it can "shatter the remaining good will". DE would have to do this at least 5 more times to "shatter" anything. DE is a cute little kitten in an industry full of sabercats and sometimes it bites or scratches, but it's so inconsequential in a grand scheme of things... I am angry, but nothing has been shattered... The game is still great and completely f2p as far as i know.

5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Sure, most people are sheep without the ability to form long-term memories. The rest of us can carry the bag for them, nbd. They can ignore the issue or naysay or "I don't see the problem" or talk down to people or get angry that people are upset at multi-million-dollar-company for its latest anti-consumer move, but the people driving for change do often win here and Warframe is a better place for it. There are just as many community wins as there are examples in your list of consumer fails. And a lot of the people who said the same kinds of things about Prime Resurgence plat or separate Prime Accessories or Tau RNG or univac now enjoy these benefits they argued so passionately against.

And as a fun counter-example: look at how the recent Unity drama went. As the phrase goes, Unity #*!%ed around and then found out. And then they walked back. It's surely not a permanent win, and they're undoubtedly going to try something dumb again, and their reputation and trust is still irreparably destroyed, but the bad thing was walked back and went away, at least for now.

Good points. I really wonder if the Unity fiasco was due to greed or just stupidity, because it seems like the latter. Afaik the biggest issue was that the small devs would be hit hard and unreasonably, which is something that they could've easily overlooked. Same goes for DE I think. They often miss obvious issues and overlook serious problems IN GAME that can be predicted easily in advance. How often we get a message: "well we didn't know this new ability can do this, even though it's obvious, so we have to nerf it". I wouldn't be surprised if Heirloom packs were just someone not thinking long enough, just like Regal Aya. But I am of course not denying the possibility that it's just greed and a bad attempt to test the waters.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cerikus

[Voltage]

8 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Really? That's surprising to me. Like I am unhappy about it, I will still probably buy the pack like you did (if I'll have money), and I would strongly recommend DE to roll back the ideology and actually fix the packs... But I don't see how it can "shatter the remaining good will". DE would have to do this at least 5 more times to "shatter" anything. DE is a cute little kitten in an industry full of sabercats and sometimes it bites or scratches, but it's so inconsequential in a grand scheme of things... I am angry, but nothing has been shattered... The game is still great and completely f2p as far as i know.

Do you honestly trust that this company is going forward with their premium content in good faith and considerate towards consumers? I don't. That doesn't mean I hate DE or don't think they can improve Warframe. 

DE not being the worst doesn't excuse their behavior whatsoever. This theoretical bar of predatory behavior isn't set at EA.

Plenty has been shattered depending on your angle with the game and how old you are. The era where DE was a small studio with rich communication always trying to do the right thing is long over. The only reason we have this post here is damage control. That's about it. These posts don't make me think feedback is considered, they make me think that they believe they can trick people into thinking they are considerate while doing the bare minimum. We know this is the bare minimum because of the similarities with the Regal Aya situation.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Voltage

[Absolute_Kriatura]

13 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Do you honestly trust that this company is going forward with their premium content in good faith and considerate towards consumers? I don't. That doesn't mean I hate DE or don't think they can improve Warframe. 

DE not being the worst doesn't excuse their behavior whatsoever. This theoretical bar of predatory behavior isn't set at EA.

Plenty has been shattered depending on your angle with the game and how old you are. The era where DE was a small studio with rich communication always trying to do the right thing is long over. The only reason we have this post here is damage control. That's about it. These posts don't make me think feedback is considered, they make me think that they think they can trick people into thinking they are considerate while doing the bare minimum.

As sad as it's, you said the bitter truth.

I can't imagine how angry you're inside, maybe just sad at this late point.

[Voltage]

8 hours ago, Somnium_Bellator said:

As sad as it's, you said the bitter truth.

I can't imagine how angry you're inside, maybe just sad at this late point.

It's just expected these days with games. Warframe's honeymoon phase was a long time ago and now we see it being milked like this to the point of disregarding how this game has afforded to exist in the first place.

Take a look at other old games like Rainbow Six Siege or Destiny 2. It's the same thing there too. The landscape of live service games is filthy, and playing games like The First Descendant, I'm pretty glad I still enjoy Warframe and far enough progressed where keeping up with content is relatively easy.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Voltage

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Do you honestly trust that this company is going forward with their premium content in good faith and considerate towards consumers? I don't.

1. It's a company. I don't trust them. All I trust is that they will behave like a company. 
2. I don't care about future. I will judge their decisions based on what comes, but I don't have the room in my everyday life to have feelings about possible futures.
3. This is hardly the first time DE did something like that and imho they did worse things.

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

DE not being the worst doesn't excuse their behavior whatsoever.

Could you show me where I said it does? Because I didn't.

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Plenty has been shattered depending on your angle with the game and how old you are. The era where DE was a small studio with rich communication always trying to do the right thing is long over. The only reason we have this post here is damage control. That's about it. These posts don't make me think feedback is considered, they make me think that they think they can trick people into thinking they are considerate while doing the bare minimum.

The era where DE was a small studio is so far in the past, reminding anyone they used to be small is silly. DE is a big studio and has been for years.

I strongly belive that they are currently more open to feedback and commuication than they've been say 2019/20. Just remind yourself how bad the atmosphere inside the community was and how there was zero communication when all that drama around community chat moderators and guides of the lotus happened. Don't forget the series of updates, which were attrosious and DE were refusing to listen for months. You've spoken several times in this thread about Prime access, Regal Aya and other problems and some of those issues I would consider much worse than Heirloom packs.

I really don't like this kind of revisionist point of view, where we are suppose to pretend like DE were so much better and now, NOW is the historical moment, when they finally did something so horrible, we should all cry out in agony, because the pure relationship we had with the developers is forever tainted by this horrid evil.

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Destiny 2. It's the same thing there too.

I would be very careful about saying this. Because in case of Destiny 2, you couldn't be more wrong. It's absolutely NOT the same there.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Cerikus

[Voltage]

29 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

1. It's a company. I don't trust them. All I trust is that they will behave like a company. 
2. I don't care about future. I will judge their decisions based on what comes, but I don't have the room in my everyday life to have feelings about possible futures.
3. This is hardly the first time DE did something like that and imho they did worse things.

Your second and third points are what feed into this situation though. You don't care for the future and then explain that this happens more than once. Well yeah, that's kind of the point. When I mention the feeling of shattered, it's not a glass falling to the floor, it's a hairline crack that slowly spiders and fractures into a large deformation before shattering.

29 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

The era where DE was a small studio is so far in the past, reminding anyone they used to be small is silly. DE is a big studio and has been for years.

I strongly belive that they are currently more open to feedback and commuication than they've been say 2019/20. Just remind yourself how bad the atmosphere inside the community was and how there was zero communication when all that drama around community chat moderators and guides of the lotus happened. Don't forget the series of updates, which were attrosious and DE were refusing to listen for months. You've spoken several times in this thread about Prime access, Regal Aya and other problems and some of those issues I would consider much worse than Heirloom packs.

I really don't like this kind of revisionist point of view, where we are suppose to pretend like DE were so much better and now, NOW is the historical moment, when they finally did something so horrible, we should all cry out in agony, because the pure relationship we had with the developers is forever tainted by this horrid evil.

It doesn't matter how far it is in the past, it's still part of the roots of this game. Warframe solely exists today because of that early behavior, and forgetting that just makes Warframe every other greedy live service F2P game on the market.

This is the straw that breaks the camel's back for some, and that analogy refers to the sum of smaller incidents, not one issue. And yeah, it is historical if you consider the similarity to Founders items. This is a new low that most older players didn't think DE could or would stoop to. Now that they have, anything's on the table. That's how I interpret this. If we're going to sell time limited badges and items to represent milestones, what makes you think that there is any honor or respect from anything else. It's the same point of discussion I brought up with Primed Chamber, and I got laughed at by many who were short-sighted and only cared about the item in isolation with the acceptable loss of the minority it represented, not the message it projects going forward. It's quite ironic that after Primed Chamber, DE has done the Heirloom package. One was praised, one is controversial, yet the message from Primed Chamber put the writing on the wall for this to take place.

29 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I really don't like this kind of revisionist point of view, where we are suppose to pretend like DE were so much better and now, NOW is the historical moment, when they finally did something so horrible, we should all cry out in agony, because the pure relationship we had with the developers is forever tainted by this horrid evil.

This is disingenuous and misrepresentative of how actual discussion is going on here. We both know that this isn't how many comments are worded, mine included. You're well aware as you've already pointed out that this wasn't a one-time issue, it's been a slow drag. Commenting this only taints the well for nobody's benefit.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Voltage