PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[PollexMessier]

Not that I think the thread should stop. But It really has just devolved into completely non constructive toxic bickering from both sides at this point. A lot of yall need to step away and take a break from the forums for a while. 90% of the posts for the last 6-7 pages have been the same hand full of people arguing the same points back and forth on repeat with increasingly aggressive and nonsensical language.

I don't usually do the gif thing but

[Stafelund]

15 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Not that I think the thread should stop. But It really has just devolved into completely non constructive toxic bickering from both sides at this point. A lot of yall need to step away and take a break from the forums for a while. 90% of the posts for the last 6-7 pages have been the same hand full of people arguing the same points back and forth on repeat with increasingly aggressive and nonsensical language.

I don't usually do the gif thing but

For me, I'd rather have this a containment thread, as long as it doesn't devolve into death threats and pure insulting/mudslinging. Locking the thread may just result in unaired grievances spilling over the threads. It's the topic for the whole issue, and has become a feedback thread, might as well direct all concerns here and if people want to debate, as long as it doesn't become nothing but insults/spam or death threats is fine.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Stafelund

[L3512]

Muh DuNnINg-KruGEr.

Seems someone has learnt a fancy new term.

Edited September 17, 2023 by L3512

[Slayer-.]

9 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

For me, I'd rather have this a containment thread, as long as it doesn't devolve into death threats and pure insulting/mudslinging. Locking the thread may just result in unaired grievances spilling over the threads. It's the topic for the whole issue, and has become a feedback thread, might as well direct all concerns here and if people want to debate, as long as it doesn't become nothing but insults/spam or death threats is fine.

Too late for that, but the mods did clean it all up so you all can continue on. 

3 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Muh DuNnINg-KruGEr.

Seems someone has learnt a fancy new term.

Yeah, I had to google it. 

[Stafelund]

1 minute ago, Slayer-. said:

Too late for that, but the mods did clean it all up so you all can continue on. 

I get accused, I counter. Ehh..

[L3512]

21 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Yeah, I had to google it. 

Spending time interacting with folk online will get it thrown out, it's rather droll is it's mainly employed as an underhanded personal attack but that's what people do if they can't counter a point directly.

[PollexMessier]

38 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

For me, I'd rather have this a containment thread, as long as it doesn't devolve into death threats and pure insulting/mudslinging. Locking the thread may just result in unaired grievances spilling over the threads. It's the topic for the whole issue, and has become a feedback thread, might as well direct all concerns here and if people want to debate, as long as it doesn't become nothing but insults/spam or death threats is fine.

I see how what I said could've been interpreted that way but I didn't mean the thread should be locked.
I meant all yall posting multi paragraph long responses to eachother need to stop and take a breath cus you're talking in circles.

Locking the thread would be a hilariously terrible idea. I almost wanna see what would happen if they did out of pure morbid curiosity.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I mean, Rebb said it perfectly well, and I believe it's been quoted quite frequently right here IN THIS VERY THREAD, no less, that though DE values the feedback players provide, and understands that players are GREAT at describing when something "doesn't feel right", they still ALSO understand that players DO NOT always have the capability to provide actually productive or reasonable solutions!

I mean, she's spot on.  The customer is NOT always right.  The customer is the CONSUMER of the goods, but does no necessarily possess all of the knowledge and experience necessary to PRODUCE said goods.
 

1st a 4th pack with only the cosmetics and skins for a lower price is a productive and reasonable solution to the predicament were in right now 

2nd the customer is the consumer and pays for the products the developers create giving them money and without the consumer the company would not gain money slowly decaying at the company untill they collapse 

3rd there are several people able to produce sead goods like skins and cosmetics they've been doing that for years I even know how to make skins and cosmetics

 

[Slayer-.]

39 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Spending time interacting with folk online will get it thrown out, it's rather droll is it's mainly employed as an underhanded personal attack but that's what people do if they can't counter a point directly.

I'm old and have thick skin, so to sum it up I don't care what others say about me until I'm close enough to get hold of them.  

[Katinka]

2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Perhaps they've got a specific contract with the commissioned artist that they can't reneg on.

If the decision for this to be a time-limited item was made by the artist then that would be a reason for me not to buy this as I wouldn't want to support that decision.  That's a VERY big "if" though as I doubt the artist had much involvement at all in how the skins would be marketed.

2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Perhaps they've got a specific financial goal that they NEED to meet, and that requires a package at this price point... thus why they'd ADD to it, rather than take away FROM it.

I find it hard to imagine a goal that requires packs to be sold at a specific price point over selling more packs at a lower price point, especially when dealing with digital product that doesn't have a per item production cost.  The overheads are mostly constant except for any per sale commission the artist is getting.  Now, I'm totally in favour of artists being paid their fair share but if it requires DE to pad out the bundle with Platinum and Regal Aya to reach a point where consumers consider the pack to be good value, it makes it sound like DE valued the skins higher than their customers did.  That actually wouldn't surprise me as Rebecca did seem quite hyped about getting Mynki back but I don't know how much the player-base cares about someone who left 6 years ago returning.  I don't mean any offence to Mynki, it's just that in the early years when he was on devstreams the Twitch chat was full of thirsty comments about him and I don't know how many of those fans are still here to get excited by his brief return.  I think perhaps there were more people who thought 'Who's Mynki?' than DE expected, and less 'Wow, I remember Mynki!  I need to buy those skins right now!'.

2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

DE is making an educated move, an informed play... they're not just slapping a pack up online with a random number they hope to get... they KNOW that "At $x, it's likely to sell y number of copies, and thus we can expect to earn $a-$b profit over x amount of time on this package."

Doesn't mean they can't be wrong in their educated and informed decision.  The fact that they added more Platinum to the bundles and conceded that the contents weren't high enough value is an admission that they got it wrong.  Neither of us know what the sales of the bundles have been but I'd wager that they were not what DE expected.  I would think that if they were happy with the sales figures they wouldn't have felt the need to change anything.

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

There's no "disrespect".  There's no "mistake".   Just because YOU cannot afford it (and to be clear, I can't either), doesn't make it a "mistake".

I'm stopping you right here, and I'm just going to say it as clear as can be. You're laser focusing on the price and going through the same "justification" discussion that I commented on earlier:

On 2023-09-14 at 5:25 PM, Voltage said:

"Justified" is a fascinating word. It's often used when you know you've done something wrong and people can take issue with, but you've already thought of excuses and examples to ensure your behavior wasn't "incorrect". Sure, Regal Aya justifies the higher price, but it's bloat, and everyone can see that. You can justify just about anything when you make the rules, but people can still point out when it's in poor taste. The Accolade and riding the wave of "10 years" is poor taste. Again, everyone can see that.

Nobody is questioning whether DE is allowed to do what they are doing, they're questioning whether it's ethical and treats people fairly for what it is.

I've easily made over $1000 USD worth of purchases on this game. I've purchased most Prime Accessory packages either on release or through the Vault and Resurgence. I have bought countless TennoGen items. I've been to 3 TennoCons and purchased TennoCon Digital Tickets since DE invented them. I've also purchased most Supporter packs for the cosmetics (with few exceptions). Yet, you aren't a "10 year supporter" unless you've bought the Accolade from this specific package. That's insulting, plain and simple. I bought this bundle because my personal endgame is my profile and account achievements. That doesn't mean I can't speak up when I feel that this bundle mistreats consumers, some of which have contributed to this game in ways that is beyond financial support. I would honestly say that my financial contribution, while large for a single player, is no where near the value of feedback I have offered towards DE or other players, new and old.

I'm not here to toot my own horn by any means, but I've definitely participated in shaping this game over the years I have been playing. The significance of my contribution is irrelevant, as all players from all backgrounds shape Warframe to lead the legacy that it has now. Not many online games go for 10+ years with healthy player counts. Warframe achieved that because of the treatment they gave consumers. This bundle speaks volumes in the wrong direction.

If you're focused on technicalities for justification for this bundle, you're completely out to lunch and need to read the room. It's just that simple. DE is justified to sell the bundle this way, but so is EA for the way FIFA is handled, Bungie for Destiny 2, or the way Blizzard handles Diablo and Overwatch. You can be justified and still acting in poor taste. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm old and have thick skin, so to sum it up I don't care what others say about me until I'm close enough to get hold of them.  

To Hug them, right?

 

Right?...

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

To Hug them, right?

 

Right?...

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

7 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

At this point, you should just ignore the dude.

Why people keep engaging with such types is beyond me

Ya I might just do that because there view point is so mega focused on the de company can do no wrong that they can't see why people are actually disappointed and angry

[PublikDomain]

5 hours ago, Katinka said:

I find it hard to imagine a goal that requires packs to be sold at a specific price point over selling more packs at a lower price point, especially when dealing with digital product that doesn't have a per item production cost.

Nevermind price, just look at the time. Which will be larger: sales over 4 months, or sales over the next 10+ years?

[Remy_Lacroix]

hace 9 horas, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt dijo:

Honestly, I completely respect that stance.  I'm also a simple person living through tough times, so I *get* it.  The fact that games like Warframe EXIST these days, much less for FREE, free to ACCESS, free to play EXPANSIONS, etc... is amazing to me.  If I didn't have those, I'd likely not have ANY games to play these days, which would really be sad, as they can do a lot to provide, not just entertainment but, community and socialization where you'd otherwise be in isolation... So, I am, indeed, grateful for games like these.

and tbh, my take is very much the same as your own - if you want it, get it.  If you don't, don't.  If you can't afford it, you have almost 4 MONTHS from its release to save for it, but if you cannot, then you simply cannot.  It's OKAY.  Warframe is STILL open to everyone. STILL FREE to play in EVERY way that matters most.

God forbid there's poor people attracted to a free to play game and willing to support the devs with whatever they can.

Only to find themselves unable to send such support simply because the devs are asking too much but this wouldn't be the case if there was another cheaper bundle without all of the bloat.

Here are a few (simple) questions for someone who claims to know a lot about marketing (but seems to be just Dunning-Kruger at this point):

1) What's better? 

•Selling X units of something for $90

•Selling 4X units of the same something for $30

Which one are people more likely to buy? 

•Something they want at a reasonable price.

•Something they want but is only included in a bundle with other stuff they don't want, don't need, have plenty already or see no use for it which makes the price unreasonable.

I'm all ears to hear your over 20 years of experience in the entertainment business and all of your experience with marketing, running businesses, ROI, whatever justify your answers, even if those justifications only end up explaining why someone who flexes all of that experience ended up "dirt broke".

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Ya I might just do that because there view point is so mega focused on the de company can do no wrong that they can't see why people are actually disappointed and angry

There are a few that have gone on my list for this exact reason.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

We've gotten to 90 pages the same amount as the over priced bundle (i know some people  hear were waiting untill this happend) and 40 more pages than the first archon shard forum 

And still no replies, comments or anything from de

 

Were still waiting for the 4th bundle with only cosmetics and skins and none of the filler for 25 to 30 dollars 

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

Imagine walking into a fast food restaurant and only wanting a burger. You get to the counter and they say "meal deals only" I just want a burger, not fries and a drink. I have no use for the fries or drink just like plat and regal aya, just there to charge you more.

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

Imagine walking into a fast food restaurant and only wanting a burger. You get to the counter and they say "meal deals only" I just want a burger, not fries and a drink. I have no use for the fries or drink just like plat and regal aya, just there to charge you more.

H-hey! You can't ask for just a burger! I bought a burger and fries and a drink and I liked it but it wouldn't be fair if you could just buy the burger by itself! What about me???

[Stafelund]

13 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

H-hey! You can't ask for just a burger! I bought a burger and fries and a drink and I liked it but it wouldn't be fair if you could just buy the burger by itself! What about me???

THaT's CaPiTaliSM FoR u!1111

And I can say that because I have gajillion years of experience of being in the industry. And you can't ask me questions about it! That's uh, user-bashing! 

[Lion]

50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

H-hey! You can't ask for just a burger! I bought a burger and fries and a drink and I liked it but it wouldn't be fair if you could just buy the burger by itself! What about me???

Better analogy would be you asking for a burger without lettuce and getting it for a third of the price, despite it not being marketed as having an option for a steep discount without lettuce. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lion

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Lion said:

Better analogy would be you asking for a burger without lettuce and getting it for a third of the price, despite it not being marketed as having an option for a steep discount without lettuce. 

Better? Seems a bit worse to me. The lettuce is a part of the burger, while the drink and fries aren't. Someone might reasonably already have a drink (plat), or not want any fries right now (RA). They may still want to have a burger (skin), and it might even want the cheese (Signa) too! And as you can understand, being a human being living in the real world, if you go to your fast food place of choice you can order just the burger; you don't have to order a complete meal. They'll sell you a burger on your own, try it yourself! Wild! It's totally allowed and demanding someone buy food and drink they don't want and won't consume is silly and wasteful and there's a reason no one does it.

[Darkbring]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

H-hey! You can't ask for just a burger! I bought a burger and fries and a drink and I liked it but it wouldn't be fair if you could just buy the burger by itself! What about me???

Now I want a McD consoomer skin for Grendel

[JonSupernova]

Time to throw my hat into this fire. I'm free to play and this heirloom pack is not priced fairly. Not only that but adding platinum to "make the pack worth" the price, doesn't change that problem that it's expensive. We gamers, in this day and age, know what's good additions to games and what are bad additions to games. This heirloom pack is one of the bad kinds, due to the fact that the price is not worth anything in that pack.

Also, if I was really in need of platinum, I would buy a platinum pack when I get a good discount coupon. More to the point, Apex Legends, already does an heirloom like pack and in terms of functionality, it's awful because of the loot box dilemma that game. Now you can get the "shards" but only if you put down an absurd amount of money, just to get a CHANCE at the shards for the heirlooms.

With this in mind, DE is starting to head that route of making bad game decisions around transactions. Seeing as how long I have played this game; this heirloom pack will not bolster the game but will degrade the game in terms of content locked behind a paywall. Yeah, I get it. It's just skins, but at no point in time should a "skin" in ANY game cost somebody an arm and a leg (Not even going to mention CSGO).

So with DE saying they learned something, let's hope they learned how pricing a skin or two at a ridiculous is not the way to gain "funds" and community support. Not to mention, just adding platinum to any kind of pack, shouldn't be a "fix". Fair pricing is all I'm going to say.