Reactant Needs to Go people are quitting

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

If youre on PC then this probably isnt going to bother you as much due too your higher spawn rates creating higher drop rates but here on console, Its so common when i play survival missions that people quit because reactant absolutely refuses to drop and forces everyone to be in 1 room. People have their time wasted and no 1 is happy

This is objectively WORSE than having just 1 player go afk, for the reason that its affecting newer players the most! Which normally is a big No No, they are the last players whos experience you want ruin! Im older and it ruins my experience having to tell everyone "No you guys cant run around and have fun, you must play this just like a defense mission and stay in one room! Do it now!!!" Like im their dad putting them in timeout. And yes i said like a defense mission or mobile defense. The beauty of Survival is you used to be able to just run around and get kills, you'd only camp when you plan to go into extremely dangerous levels. Now you gotta camp level 1 and let a nuke frame take over while you sit there playing with your thumbs. Which stands out more on console with less spawns

Remove it, reduce the pickups to 1, or just let people be afk. I really dont mind afk players this much. Reactant is sucking the fun out of the game. Let survival become Survival again

Edited September 19, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
Additional information and fixing errors

[MaxTunnerX]

Reactant is an awful and very unneccesary feature, so I agree it should go.

[Chewarette]

Reactants are okay, but I agree that it sucks on Survival (and Interceptions). Maybe they could change the reactants to be squad-loots (i.e. one dude drops it, everyone gets it)

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Reactants are okay, but I agree that it sucks on Survival (and Interceptions). Maybe they could change the reactants to be squad-loots (i.e. one dude drops it, everyone gets it)

Dont forget defense, capture and spy. All these modes require a very specific way of playing them to get all the reactants. For example I have to afk at the start of every capture for about a half a minute (until everyone gets like 8 reactants) and only then I can start actually playing. If I play normally from the start its very hard to get all of it. And defense missions just straight up give you 9/10 at the end of them, so thats a glorious waste of time. Spy drops reactants in different parts of the map as the players split up, so that also blows. The only mode reactants work flawlessly in are exterminate missions. The only one.

Making it a squad loot would help a lot but why bother coding it in when you can just delete a few lines of code and get even better results? Get rid of reactants altogether and replace enemies in fissures with corrupted ones instead of those that usually exist there. Done. Players will be happier, game will work better, code will be streamlined.

Edited September 17, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Stormandreas]

Legit... only like twice, since void fissures have been a thing, have I ever had any issue with Reactant for survivals.

If you're entire squad is spread over the entire map, then yes, you're going to have problems, because no-one is staying remotely close to one another. You don't have to all be in one corner, you just need to be vaugly near each other, even 1-2 rooms away in general is fine between two groups.

If you all spread out across the entire map, even in a normal survival, you're life support is still gonna suffer too anyway.

They should imo, however, add the Railjack squad loot pickup mechanic to all endless missions honestly. It's just a really nice QoL feature

[Pakaku]

I'd quit these missions as well, if people aren't smart enough to stick together

[SneakyErvin]

Looks more like a player problem than a reactant problem when it comes to survival.

Interception and Defense could surely use a tweak to reactants, because both require you to slow down to be on the safe side, which turn them into boring chores.

[Traumtulpe]

There are 3 major issues with reactant:

1. If it works, it's irrelevant. Might as well not be there.
2. "Stop dude, you're completing the mission too fast" Yeah, reactant doesn't drop at the pace you'd normally complete many missions. Excarvation, Defense, Spy - just wait 2 minutes until enough reactant has dropped.
3. 3/4 people are ready to extract, and the 4th guy (who maybe a new player or maybe matchmaking added him after the mission already was complete - yes, that does happen) is running around getting no reactant for 10+ minutes.

As you can see, reactant is a crappy system that needs deleted. It either does nothing or cause problems, never ever does it have a positive effect.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

There are 3 major issues with reactant:

1. If it works, it's irrelevant. Might as well not be there.
2. "Stop dude, you're completing the mission too fast" Yeah, reactant doesn't drop at the pace you'd normally complete many missions. Excarvation, Defense, Spy - just wait 2 minutes until enough reactant has dropped.
3. 3/4 people are ready to extract, and the 4th guy (who maybe a new player or maybe matchmaking added him after the mission already was complete - yes, that does happen) is running around getting no reactant for 10+ minutes.

As you can see, reactant is a crappy system that needs deleted. It either does nothing or cause problems, never ever does it have a positive effect.

Exactly this lol.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

33 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Looks more like a player problem than a reactant problem when it comes to survival.

Interception and Defense could surely use a tweak to reactants, because both require you to slow down to be on the safe side, which turn them into boring chores.

Itd be nobodys problem if it were gone or greatly reduced in the amount needed. Its existence causes unnecesary issues to make the game less enjoyable and waste peoples time. 

Its a game design problem and its just lazy leaving them how they are to just frustrate players and make them quit matches and find your game more boring

Kick them out

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

27 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

It either does nothing or cause problems, never ever does it have a positive effect.

👏 yes please change DE

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

If you all spread out across the entire map, even in a normal survival, you're life support is still gonna suffer too anyway.

Well since the game has been released i have had this be a problem 0 times. Theres never a need to stay together as capsules add up towards everyone's LS. Sticking together was always optional in normal survival, never forced. Always leave my team in normal survival without any kind of worry, its bliss

Not in void fissures, i have this problem 70% of the time where we are just barely getting enough for the next wave cause no wants to camp, and let Jerry carry the game while we sit and play Uno in a corner somewhere. Even with players at legendary rank dont be wanting to do that, heck i dont even want to so i understand why others dont be wanting to and i love defense missions. The freedom feels good in normal survival

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Itd be nobodys problem if it were gone or greatly reduced in the amount needed. Its existence causes unnecesary issues to make the game less enjoyable and waste peoples time. 

Its a game design problem and its just lazy leaving them how they are to just frustrate players and make them quit matches and find your game more boring

Kick them out

Less enjoyable for whom though? It is already less enjoyable to be in a survival mission where everyone runs off like a headless chicken, atleast reactants promote people staying closer together, resulting in more loot pick ups for everyone involved and more concentrated mobs.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Less enjoyable for whom though? It is already less enjoyable to be in a survival mission where everyone runs off like a headless chicken, atleast reactants promote people staying closer together, resulting in more loot pick ups for everyone involved and more concentrated mobs.

Just play defense, defense doesnt need to be every single game mode in existence

I felt universal pick ups was asking for too much but you make it sound like its a good idea

And no, not everyone wants you to be killing all the mobs. Sometimes they want to kill too and move away from greedy players for just a second

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Just play defense, defense doesnt need to be every single game mode in existence

I felt universal pick ups was asking for too much but you make it sound like its a good idea

And no, not everyone wants you to be killing all the mobs. Sometimes they want to kill too and move away from greedy players for just a second

I uhm dont want to play defense. So that isnt a solution.

And who is the greedy player when a player decides to move away from others? I'd say it is the person moving away to grab personal kills, not the other guys simply pushing the mission forward for everyones eventual benefit.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

uhm dont want to play defense

Well you already are if you want to be grouped in a single spot. Just put a defense objective in the middle of the room youre camping in, tada defense :O

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And who is the greedy player when a player decides to move away from others? I'd say it is the person moving away to grab personal kills

Let me get this straight, your definition of greed is a player wanting everyone to get personal kills, in order to:

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

simply push the mission forward for everyones eventual benefit

(Cause that not a special perk that only happens when 1 player gets kills)

And greed is not when 1 is taking 99.9% of them and selfishly enjoying their build laughing at how awesome it is, while everyone else who wants to face hoards and see their builds in action too sitting is there dropping 1 enemy an hour yawning? Do you really think that people want to play Warframe to not play it? Like facing hoards of enemies is kind of the selling point of the game not watching 1 player do everything.

"Ya let me turn on my game so this guy can play the game while i watch like this  so fun not playing!"

Dont get me wrong i get it, youre helping even though no one is playing the game. Its was how i was when they were trying nerf ember. But with survival, instead of forcing everyone to play 1 way (like nerfing ember and the plan to nerf all nuke frames), we have a gamemode that let you simply move away from them giving you an option rather than being forced.

If you really feel the urge to be greedy, want to be carried, or simply dont want anyone running off and getting lost in the slaughter for resource drops, we have gamemodes for that. Go to Interception, play Defense, play Kuvival, Defection, Excavation. Theres so many endurance room camping gamemodes in Warframe for you to focus hard on being grouped up. Only 1 that allows it to be okay not to be grouped all the time, be free, and just have causual fun. And trust me when i say people who are playing survival and not grouped up do not care about missing a drop or 2. They do the hardcore squad Nekros, Khora/Hydroid, Nova, and Wisp or Rhino when drops are that important.

Someone even made the valid point that even though Interception is a camping game mode they STILL run into issues with reactant for simply completing the mission, which is in no way a necessary feature that dies anything good for the gamemode. Its doesnt make the game more fun to have to stop and say "Hey guys stop playing the game and go afk for 2 minutes, we need more reactant!". That is a flaw in game design, lack of care, laziness. Feature is existing just to exist rather than add to the games entertainment in anyway. Someone said it either hurts the game or adds no value and its seriously facts.

Reactant is a joke in its current state. I get it may exist fir afk purposes but just 1-5 reactant is enough. Like i never seen players go afk in steelpath survival even though theres just 1 steel essence pick up every 5 minutes. The rarity of afk players is far more intense then the amount of times i scramble for reactant.

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[Cerikus]

Totally agree with OP. If anyone wants a quick laugh you can watch this: 

It's actually amazing that we have a video where Megan and Taylor run into this exact issue.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

49 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Totally agree with OP. If anyone wants a quick laugh you can watch this: 

It's actually amazing that we have a video where Megan and Taylor run into this exact issue.

Jeez thats even worse, thats a capture run. Meg was a second away from quitting out of frustration. Its really no fun trying to enjoy the game and just get doomed to this little mechanic that just exist. End up getting your time wasted out the blue. Its bull

Reduce the amount of pickups or get it outta here, its not doing anything fun or entertaining anyways 

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Honestly the situation would be fine if ppl practiced trigger discipline, but I swear 90% of the players are too stupid to understand "If the enemy isn't yellow and glowing, don't kill it in a void fissure "... I've had entire missions where I literally did not kill anyone because I'm waiting for them to turn and people can't help but nuking them all in front of me before they do.

Nothing sucks more than getting into room filled with enemies, starting to teabag while you patiently wait for the void storm to turn enemies, then this rando runs in and nukes the entire room two seconds before they turn, only to get to the end of the mission and everyone is missing like 3 reactants... Then you start to backtrack, but the same Dbag keeps nuking every single enemy that spawns immediately before letting them turn. So you write" let em turn" in chat and they ignore it and still nuke everyone.

Or you run interception and ppl grab all four towers at once, making the round too short to have enough time to amass ten reactants... You keep writing "let them take a point", but they don't, and they nuke all enemies before they turn to make sure we keep all four objectives. Then nobody cracks their relics and you feel like you just wasted five minutes.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Honestly the situation would be fine if ppl practiced trigger discipline, but I swear 90%

I think its because 90% of players didnt wake up today and open warframe to say "i want to be trigger disciplined". Doesnt sound as fun as just playing the game

1 hour ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

You keep writing "let them take a point", but they don't

Preach!

Edited September 17, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[Quest]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Honestly the situation would be fine if ppl practiced trigger discipline

most people who play this game are not interested in just sitting there killing one enemy at a time. if that's what you want to do, more power to you, but in any case the problem you're describing wouldn't exist if reactant wasn't a mechanic

17 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

They should imo, however, add the Railjack squad loot pickup mechanic to all endless missions honestly. It's just a really nice QoL feature

the reason people like the railjack version of the mechanic is because it is effectively negligible

i agree though this would still be an improvement

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Well you already are if you want to be grouped in a single spot. Just put a defense objective in the middle of the room youre camping in, tada defense :O

Nope.

20 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

(Cause that not a special perk that only happens when 1 player gets kills)

And greed is not when 1 is taking 99.9% of them and selfishly enjoying their build laughing at how awesome it is, while everyone else who wants to face hoards and see their builds in action too sitting is there dropping 1 enemy an hour yawning? Do you really think that people want to play Warframe to not play it? Like facing hoards of enemies is kind of the selling point of the game not watching 1 player do everything.

"Ya let me turn on my game so this guy can play the game while i watch like this  so fun not playing!"

Dont get me wrong i get it, youre helping even though no one is playing the game. Its was how i was when they were trying nerf ember. But with survival, instead of forcing everyone to play 1 way (like nerfing ember and the plan to nerf all nuke frames), we have a gamemode that let you simply move away from them giving you an option rather than being forced.

If you really feel the urge to be greedy, want to be carried, or simply dont want anyone running off and getting lost in the slaughter for resource drops, we have gamemodes for that. Go to Interception, play Defense, play Kuvival, Defection, Excavation. Theres so many endurance room camping gamemodes in Warframe for you to focus hard on being grouped up. Only 1 that allows it to be okay not to be grouped all the time, be free, and just have causual fun. And trust me when i say people who are playing survival and not grouped up do not care about missing a drop or 2. They do the hardcore squad Nekros, Khora/Hydroid, Nova, and Wisp or Rhino when drops are that important.

Someone even made the valid point that even though Interception is a camping game mode they STILL run into issues with reactant for simply completing the mission, which is in no way a necessary feature that dies anything good for the gamemode. Its doesnt make the game more fun to have to stop and say "Hey guys stop playing the game and go afk for 2 minutes, we need more reactant!". That is a flaw in game design, lack of care, laziness. Feature is existing just to exist rather than add to the games entertainment in anyway. Someone said it either hurts the game or adds no value and its seriously facts.

Reactant is a joke in its current state. I get it may exist fir afk purposes but just 1-5 reactant is enough. Like i never seen players go afk in steelpath survival even though theres just 1 steel essence pick up every 5 minutes. The rarity of afk players is far more intense then the amount of times i scramble for reactant.

Yes that is a form of greed. There is nothing that says the others are greedy by simply killing quicker while grouped up. Moving away is greed though since that player effectively wants to kill while not giving a squat that it will also spread out loot etc. for the whole group. The same person will also likely just move again if people move to his spot to pick up loot, meaning he again forces other players to follow him to his new spot to grab more loot etc.

It also isnt really about a missing drop or two, unless the guy moving off has a horrible loadout. It will likely be about half of the loot that goes missing.

And while you suggest other players to go to specific modes, the same applies to the greedy guy that must rack up kills for a pointless list. Interception is golden for such a person since everyone has their own objective to defend. But hey, even there they are greedy and roam instead of protect the objective, dragging things out pointlessly. Then, if someone feels a need to move away to rack up kills in survival, why not just sign up for solo, atleast if you run it as SP where the density is that of a 4 man group at all times? And if this is fissures only, well we cant really pick what to run since the game decides what is in rotation.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

54 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope

And on that note agree to disagree👍👋

Edited September 18, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[SneakyErvin]

38 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

And on that note agree to disagree👍👋

You honestly think defense which is about keeping a target alive versus a set number of enemies is the same as killing endless floods of enemies to keep up mission efficiency? Where one mode also dictates where to stand (except for arbitrations) on a very small map, and the other allows you to pick where you prefer to fight across a large tile in order to change the flow of the mission, bottlenecks etc.

[(PSN)ApoX95]

I totally get that as another fellow console-tenno - because this issue seems to be the worst when I'm host compared to when I just join another one that is probably a PC host. if the host is a PC player then reactants dropping like crazy - if I'm the host then enemy spawns are excessively low and the reactant spawns are even lower.

the spawn rate varies depending on mode though, you get reactants so fast when it's extermination or capture. we need higher spawns/drops in general and maybe even shared reactant pickups like in Railjack