SP Circuit change petition to pathos clamps insteaf of the suggested Rivens for exchange of incarnons

[BroDutt]

1 hour ago, P0Pz said:

Let me show you smt fast:

STOP promoting other games. Those suggestion you made from other game can't be adapted to Warframe or not allign with DE bussiness. There's a reason why Riven existed and how limited the mod system is.

You should suggest that system to Wayfinder dev (DE just a publisher) since it's more compatible for it, or

MOVE your idea to another thread. This thread focus on the change on Circuit reward not an overhaul to a new mod/system

Edited October 2, 2023 by BroDutt

[P0Pz]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Packetdancer:

I have no way of knowing what your other game uses behind the scenes; having never played it -- much less dug into the architecture of it -- it would all be guesswork, and even there I don't have the necessary details to make proper guesswork. Like, you say every skill has its own card and you can combine them with a another card to make +1, or +2, or so on... does that mean I can have entirely different results on a skill? Like my "Blazing Strike" skill will do 48 base damage, while your same "Blazing Strike" skill will do 0 damage but heal you for a base value of 37? Or are there constraints on things? Does it have separate asset servers, or is all logic server-side and so you don't need the data to make calculations?

> Skill-Cards would each "by logic" add 1 specific amount of stats of a +1 card to a +2 and so on. This is why Skill-cards are equal to Mods in Warframe. Mods go the same "logic 1 specific amount" on stats up or down but Mods, can not be combined with each other as only difference.

It could well be comparing apples to oranges under the hood. Heck, if the thing has a fully dedicated server architecture, rather than peer-to-peer client and with periodic check-ins with an authoritative asset server, it might be comparing apples to aardvarks. Warframe and WoW work very differently in terms of networking, I guarantee you.

> This game here specific is "Rappelz", WoW watched a lot at it and took some parts over to them,..including the AH point,..which was not so good done as the orginal one hehe. WoW "Dragon Age",.. yaaa in  Rappelz "Epic V: Draconic Age” 2008...

> LostArk is from the same Head of Dev and Developers made as Rappelz. They are all with some exceptions ex GalaNET & GalaLAB Head of def & Devs, creators of Rappelz & ...Flyff ;) Cube dungeon, Circus dungeon,..Ui, Buff icons...3 button death window, cerberus, boss-card system, mobs, Ghostship, even entire Questlinies (Poppy the wolf quest 1:1 including text) are all from Rappelz. LostArk is lit. Rappelz 2.0 but without any sort of real pets /creature nore creature system ;)

 

Maybe you know the WoW ethral dragon "ride" which is in Rappelz,...a Boss and tame'able as pet to fight with you and able to fly on it ;)

More clear here to see ;)

 

But more to the point, if that is a fundamental part of your other game... it was probably designed specifically to facilitate such things. Warframe was not; rivens were a later addition, and this ten-year-old engine and network architecture did not have their entire base design focused around the idea of randomized stats. In fact, I'd argue that Warframe is based very much around stats you can predict/calculate.

>> And this is what i also think is the most true point if they realy can not, they fk'ed up including such paths possible for the future.

Could a different engine/architecture handle this better? Of course! This one's been around for ten years, and there's been a whole pile of stuff layered on top of it that was not a thing they necessarily planned for at the start; I suspect some of it has 2x4's underneath it propping it up. Changing that, though...?

> No, not worth for that,...if so,..so better "work arround" right

It's worth keeping in mind the fact that the original Destiny had a networking architecture not all that dissimilar from Warframe's -- down to host migration headaches -- and supposedly the fact that it was literally easier to write an entire new game than try to update the architecture of the existing one was a factor in why Destiny 2 exists.

Think of it like renovating a house. If you're just changing the interior layout or whatnot, you can do it easily enough. If you are trying to change the actual footprint of the house, though, you probably need to make changes to the foundation. And it's not easy to lift up a house, redo the foundation, then remodel the house and put it back down on the foundation; it's probably far more simple in many cases to bulldoze the house, do a new foundation, and start fresh.

> Reason why GalaNET & GalaLAB stoped Rappelz, sold it, bc their engine could NOT do what they wanted,..which they created now with LostArk ;) what you have a Ark normaly for? "Collecting all Creatures" ;)

Rappelz Loading screen. They always wanted to use islands & ships to travel arround,.. but their engine at that time simple could not profide this...

Rappelz Ghostship...

In this analogy, rivens are an extra sunroom built off the edge of the house that was not in the original blueprint, and there's no foundation underneath them. This means the sunroom is, y'know, maybe not the most suited for load-bearing, and you probably don't want to stick a grand piano or a giant concrete statue in there.

Similarly, I would bet that if someone looked at your other game and said "hey, this thing needs to support full VR with motion control and raytracing", the engine would not be well-suited to it. Could someone make an engine that would be? Absolutely! Is it likely super simple to just add that to the other game's engine, just because someone could make an entirely different engine that can do it? Probably not!

If DE were going to throw out the game entirely and start fresh with a Warframe 2, could they solve the riven efficiency problem? Almost certainly, if the game was designed from ground zero to support that! Can they do so with the current architecture in a straightforward manner? My guess (from what I have observed of the current architecture) would be a fairly resounding "no."

> Answer to your post within quote, [expand] ;)

I can very much understand your throught process and THANK YOU for your time fk'ing typing this all and nothing but agree to them IF some of those factors are true.

> The truth is,...no one of us can say A is right or B or maybe C,... it is a guessing in the end and i will padel back from either A or B,...since you said some points i was NOT thinking of. So thanks again for adding some true importent points into it.

Edited October 3, 2023 by P0Pz

[P0Pz]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb BroDutt:

STOP promoting other games. Those suggestion you made from other game can't be adapted to Warframe or not allign with DE bussiness. There's a reason why Riven existed and how limited the mod system is.

You should suggest that system to Wayfinder dev (DE just a publisher) since it's more compatible for it, or

MOVE your idea to another thread. This thread focus on the change on Circuit reward not an overhaul to a new mod/system

My "change on Circuit reward" path, is leaning on the horse useable there, into the direction of more creature-source(s).

> You could add the first points and at other areas add those other points. They can exist without both sides.

> Lvl2, 3, 4 & 5 Systems, Chassis and Neuroptics seems (for me) a pretty great possible way as reward to get from there, and all frames benefit from it. Good stats increase & content at that "lateGame" area in my eyes at least. Better than riven for sure ;)

Yes this could solo standing as suggestion and i will think about it. All games inspire from other games somehow. There is nothing bad in it persé also straight copy/paste and declare "i made it" would not be the "good" path to do ;)

The very first points, would enable any creature "curretnly" InGame to survive, and no need to have a bandaid of this new "companions can no longer die". Solution without fixing the problem. You can get 2 kavats. You can double stats. You can also add a "natural weapon" section like for Sentinels, to free mod space for vital-mods and have more space for the damage section... many of those points can be made "unlock'able" or "drop'able" or both. Including combine'able.

Would help frames and creatures alike, rewarding,... but would need some time to do and implement for sure so no ezy fast result what you ment to begin with i guess. So yes i guess if you search for a short-term fast solution my suggestion(s) will not work since they are bound with creatures & char alike, besides the System, Neuroptics etc Lvl 2,3 4 & 5 staging.

 

Well sometimes you shot into the fog & may hit smt hehe i get ya and you are not wrong entirely.

Cheers

Edited October 3, 2023 by P0Pz

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

21 hours ago, trst said:

I disagree. Rivens are only plentiful to those who don't engage with the system as they're only located from daily/weekly activities and/or have limited stocks.

Meanwhile Clamps have limited uses outside of Acrithis' shop which itself is on a RNG based weekly stock system while the non-Riven resoures she sells are already more readily available from other locations. As well Clamps are rather trivial to amass from Duviri runs.

Having them thrown into Circuit just leaves them to be yet another resource that'll be amassed faster than it could be used. While Rivens at the very least are a tradable commodity allowing them to have value to anyone who's not opposed to trading them.

I agree. By leaving Pathos Clamps in their current state, Duviri gets a boost in the "meaningful reasons to go to game mode x, y and z" and keeps the balance of gameplay in a better state. Annoyance due to "I personally got what I wanted" isn't a good enough reason to ask DE to kill a game mode reward. Other players may not be there yet or have not even experienced Duviri yet. Take your time folks.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I do think thats the better outcome. At least for players. Not everyone is a fan of Rivens, but even those that are, can get Rivens, potentially more with Pathos Clamps. Then for those that aren't, they also get a selection of items, from Acrithis too. Arcanes, Forma, Catalysts, so on. More choices to cater to various players preferences is good. 

Mind you, I wasn't necessarily expecting them to make any changes, so am happy options are given anyway.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

Maybe, but I've had plenty of resources for installing the adapters but need to still kill the orowyrm another few times to get the clamps to install my last ones.

Anecdotal evidence aside, the ability to get clamps from the Circuit appeals to me not because I can't go kill the orowyrm multiple times -- that's simple enough -- but because I enjoy the Circuit and will already play it willingly, whereas I've gotten very tired of the orowyrm fight. And clamps are still useful even after you've installed all the adapters, since you can use them to buy arcanes or whatever else from Acrithis.

It just bothers me a little that clamps are used for so many things, but are only available from one place (the orowyrm fight) and in relatively low quantities; even the Steel Path variant of the fight will only give you 15 clamps, while adapters cost 20 to install. It's especially annoying since it's the "pity currency" for Duviri arcanes as well, plus there's already the RNG factor of "what does Acrithis have in the shop right now" to contend with if you want to pick up those last couple of arcanes to finish ranking something up.

If you are interested in arcanes you are running experience eitherway to complete gates, at which point experience will cover all your pathos clamp needs as you grind for the arcanes. Which will result in you ending up like me at one point with hundreds and hundreds upon hundreds of pathos clamps and nothing to use them on.

[baked]

12 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I agree.

By this logic, DE should've kept Harrow parts in Defection and Kuva Spy since adding them to Kuvival disincentivises players from playing those modes now.

My answer to that? Nah. If people wanna fight the Orowyrm for 50 billion times, let them. But I'm over it. More choice isn't bad.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you are interested in arcanes you are running experience eitherway to complete gates, at which point experience will cover all your pathos clamp needs as you grind for the arcanes.

Except I've farmed all the Duviri arcanes (some twice over), yet still would welcome clamps (I have like 15 left).

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Except I've farmed all the Duviri arcanes (some twice over), yet still would welcome clamps (I have like 15 left).

How can you possibly have that few if you've farmed that many arcanes? I've farmed them all, some twice over aswell and I have 500 something clamps left as of this week.

The only thing in Duviri I havent used clamps on is two or maybe 3 incarnon weapons (gammacor aswell as one more from the latest batch and possibly nami-solo). And I've skipped a few utterly pointless items on Acrithis per week.

So are you extremely lucky with arcane drops or did you get jittery and hurry to buy them the moment they appeared at Acrithis, or do you buy all the crap she offers each week?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

So are you extremely lucky with arcane drops or did you get jittery and hurry to buy them the moment they appeared at Acrithis, or do you buy all the crap she offers each week?

What I'm reading is that Clamps have a sink and are multi purpose, while simply getting a riven isn't.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

What I'm reading is that Clamps have a sink and are multi purpose, while simply getting a riven isn't.

That doesnt answer my question one bit.

Nor does it justify adding them to circuit when they are so extremely easy and fast to obtain in experience if you really need them. I mean, 1½-2 hours for uhm what 20 at T5 or 30-ish minutes for each 15 in SP Exp? And then hours more to get another 20 or heck even 40 at T10 while you still get 15 for around 30 minutes in SP Exp.

But hey if you really want clamps from Circuit why not just agree on adding a new currency to the mode so we can all get what we want. You can then grab your clamps as I grab something else.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nor does it justify adding them to circuit when they are so extremely easy and fast to obtain in experience if you really need them. I mean, 1½-2 hours for uhm what 20 at T5

Why does it have to be 20? Also it doesn't need to be at the same rate as farming the experience. Numbers are easy to adjust.

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But hey if you really want clamps from Circuit why not just agree on adding a new currency to the mode so we can all get what we want. You can then grab your clamps as I grab something else.

Clamps are the currency so people can have more options to find desirable items. Not like it's hard to expand Acrithis's shop a bit more. That you have a surplus of clamps is really whatever. You can still get items you want, just alternate farming routes are now available.

[0_The_F00l]

I wouldn't mind , and it's not like doing the duviri runs is slower ,

if I really wanted to I can complete 10 lone tenno runs faster than i can reach rank 10 in circuit.

But that being said I don't really see an issue with things as they are now , maybe a choice between Riven , endo and arcane (that we get at rank 11) would be better ?

Edited October 3, 2023 by 0_The_F00l

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

2 hours ago, baked said:

By this logic, DE should've kept Harrow parts in Defection and Kuva Spy since adding them to Kuvival disincentivises players from playing those modes now.

My answer to that? Nah. If people wanna fight the Orowyrm for 50 billion times, let them. But I'm over it. More choice isn't bad.

More choice isn't but sometimes, true. But neither is a lack of choice sometimes. Players ultimately want everything they want in the fastest way possible. That's a very natural thing, but what do we do once we get it? We want to move on to the next thing, right?

Well, that needs to be balanced. The Harrow thing was a much different scenario than pathos clamps, and I never liked whenever something like "I want more faster" gets mixed in with "ok, this is way too much for a high chance at receiving nothing". This isn't a Fortuna resource rng issue.

[Packetdancer]

I mean, it's hardly the end of the world if they stick rivens in the Circuit and you still have to grind the orowyrm. I merely think it'd be a nice-to-have QoL thing, given that you can get rivens half a dozen other places as it is. Steel Path shop on certain weeks, two per week from Palladino, Nightwave sometimes, potential drops from Sorties... heck, you can even spend pathos clamps to buy them from Acrithis, so clamps in the circuit could still functionally be rivens!

The analogy I used in another thread was voidplumes on the Zariman.

Imagine that you still had all the voidplume sinks you currently do -- they're turned in for rep with the Holdfasts, they're used in crafting the Zariman incarnons, they're used in crafting Gyre, etc. Now imagine that voidplumes only came from the ravenous void angels that spawn at the end of an exodamper defense round in void armageddon.

I suspect that a non-zero number of people would be saying "you should get voidplumes as bounty rewards, or be able to get them in Zariman mission types other than void armageddon", etc. Because it doesn't matter if void armageddon is easy, you probably don't want to grind specifically that one mission type endlessly for the currency used for all Zariman stuff.

Pathos Clamps feel that way to me a bit. Yeah, it's easy enough to go do the orowyrm... but if you want to make two Kullervos (one for Helminth), unlock all of the Drifter weapons, and install all the incarnon adapters, you need... I think it's 990 clamps? So that's 66 runs of the Steel Path orowyrm, or 99 if you do it on normal. And sure, those numbers could definitely be a lot worse -- at least the pathos clamps are a guaranteed drop! -- but still... it doesn't matter how easy the fight might be, doing it repeatedly is likely to get a little tedious, especially because you don't have a mode where you can just go fight the orowyrm; you need to herd some tamms and find a hidden chest and kill the sometimes-buggy mounted Dax and so on first.

Edit: I will admit on reflection that the mounted Dax has bugged out on me enough times -- becoming invulnerable and just riding against a chunk of the the landscape aimlessly, unable to be attacked or anything and forcing you to abort the Duviri run and start fresh -- that it may be a contributing factor in why I think it'd be nice to have an alternate path to clamps...

(Though it's definitely less of an annoyance early on, when all those extra objectives give you intrinsics points.)

And given that even DE recognize that there needs to be something you can get in the Steel Circuit in place of incarnon adapters after you've gotten all of them... like folks have said, we get rivens a whole bunch of other places, so adding pathos clamps as an alternative option to incarnon adapters would just give another path to get them. Or, heck, give you rivens as an option, but let you sell extra incarnon adapters to Acrithis for pathos clamps, so you can still pick an incarnon adapter and turn it into clamps if you wish.

Not because the orowyrm is hard, but because sometimes it's nice to have a little variety in your grind, y'know?

Edited October 3, 2023 by Packetdancer

[BroDutt]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So are you extremely lucky with arcane drops or did you get jittery and hurry to buy them the moment they appeared at Acrithis, or do you buy all the crap she offers each week?

You knew that we can trade arcane right? Cause more Arcane = more plat. While Riven can also be traded (remember we can also trade pathos clamps for it) the price is definitely more fluctuated. Plus all of the challenge to unveiled it made me hate it (I have 20 veilled riven that I never even bother to unveilled it). 

So yes, pathos clamp as circuit reward is more better than riven. 

[SpiritTeA]

On 2023-10-02 at 4:21 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

 

• Sorties
• Archon Hunts
• Steel Path
• Iron Wake

Haha, lol what? Sorties and Archon Hunts? There is different reward than Ayatan Statues?

Steel Path as a one riven to purchase from Teshin once in a month?

Iron Wake - I’m not interested in buying Zaw and Kitgun rivens, I already sold over 20 of each for 5 endo, I’m not engaging with this S#&$ anymore(And to fact, that I not playing the game that often, but still swim in those garbage zaw and kitgun rivens).

So in this list I have not seen a real source of normal rivens. If there won’t be zaw and kitgun rivens in circuit, that would be perfect.

[Skoomaseller]

53 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Haha, lol what? Sorties and Archon Hunts? There is different reward than Ayatan Statues?

Steel Path as a one riven to purchase from Teshin once in a month?

Iron Wake - I’m not interested in buying Zaw and Kitgun rivens, I already sold over 20 of each for 5 endo, I’m not engaging with this S#&$ anymore(And to fact, that I not playing the game that often, but still swim in those garbage zaw and kitgun rivens).

So in this list I have not seen a real source of normal rivens. If there won’t be zaw and kitgun rivens in circuit, that would be perfect.

if you're not playing the game that often then why are you crying about no "real source of normal rivens"? if you play less you will get less... duh?

also palladino gives all riven types not just zaw & kitgun (excluding companion weapon & archgun rivens)

Edited October 4, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Why does it have to be 20? Also it doesn't need to be at the same rate as farming the experience. Numbers are easy to adjust.

Clamps are the currency so people can have more options to find desirable items. Not like it's hard to expand Acrithis's shop a bit more. That you have a surplus of clamps is really whatever. You can still get items you want, just alternate farming routes are now available.

Clamps wont allow Circuit to last or revitalize it though, which seems to be their intent by bluntly adding rivens to the tiers. And that is really what it comes down to at this point, Circuit having zero incentive to be played. Clamps just wont change that, it will end up like Void Storms that were used aslong as the 1-time drops were farmed, then people went back to regular fissures to farm traces and crack relics. Same will happen here, however the 1-time items have already been farmed so hitting up experience or lone story will be the path for clamps if people are interested in earning more to get whatever is added to acrithis to support Circuit and clamp introduction there.

Also, why do you keep dodging my extremely simple question regarding your clamps?

11 hours ago, BroDutt said:

You knew that we can trade arcane right? Cause more Arcane = more plat. While Riven can also be traded (remember we can also trade pathos clamps for it) the price is definitely more fluctuated. Plus all of the challenge to unveiled it made me hate it (I have 20 veilled riven that I never even bother to unveilled it). 

So yes, pathos clamp as circuit reward is more better than riven. 

Not sure what that has to do with what I said when the person implied that he had farmed them all, some twice. If you refer to that he might have farmed them twice in order to sell them, sure... but that doesnt change what it was about, which was a lack of clamps. If he had farmed excess arcanes to sell, well then he would have had even more clamps stashed due to more duviri runs and more wyrm kills on the way to portals.

No, not even with your reasoning of selling arcanes. Since if you are really interested in profit you wouldnt waste time in Circuit to get clamps to buy 1 RNG arcane per day, which in itself wouldnt be possible since there are two tiers only that would reward it and 7 days in a week that offers arcanes. People would grind portals and wyrms for maximum gain, since all arcanes can be sold really.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

56 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, why do you keep dodging my extremely simple question regarding your clamps?

Because there nothing to answer? I’ve farmed Duviri to completion (no trading) and I can still use clamps. That’s all that matters. That I still can use them goes to show that clamps have a sink. That you choose to hoard clamps is really a you thing.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Clamps wont allow Circuit to last or revitalize it though, which seems to be their intent by bluntly adding rivens to the tiers. And that is really what it comes down to at this point, Circuit having zero incentive to be played. Clamps just wont change that, it will end up like Void Storms that were used aslong as the 1-time drops were farmed, then people went back to regular fissures to farm traces and crack relics. Same will happen here, however the 1-time items have already been farmed so hitting up experience or lone story will be the path for clamps if people are interested in earning more to get whatever is added to acrithis to support Circuit and clamp introduction there.

You’re not really addressing clamps vs other rewards here. If all you cared about was the unique drops, any non-unique drop won’t bring you back. So adding rivens or any other generic reward wouldn’t bring you back. But consider this: Is Steel Essence from Acolytes a dead drop for everyone because I have 2000+?

The intention for using clamps is for there not to be a completely dead drop and enable choice for people playing. Everything isn’t a binary only play at max efficiency or not at all. I know for myself that I’d rather play Circuit than Duviri Experience.

Clamps enable choice and tie into existing systems. Don’t want a riven? Well then you can buy something else from the shop. It takes minor effort to expand it.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Because there nothing to answer? I’ve farmed Duviri to completion (no trading) and I can still use clamps. That’s all that matters. That I still can use them goes to show that clamps have a sink. That you choose to hoard clamps is really a you thing.

But there is alot to answer. What have you possibly spent several hundreds upon hundreds of clamps on? When I was done with arcanes I had around 900 and still have 500 or so to spare several week later. There is just nothing on the vendor to buy to drain you that hard on clamps if you've ground out all arcanes. You have the weekly semi-trash then you have the capturas that might roll, but those do not cost that much. Have you farmed multiples of each incarnon and installed them? I mean, we dont have a difference of a few clamps here, it's huge pile of them in difference.

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You’re not really addressing clamps vs other rewards here. If all you cared about was the unique drops, any non-unique drop won’t bring you back. So adding rivens or any other generic reward wouldn’t bring you back. But consider this: Is Steel Essence from Acolytes a dead drop for everyone because I have 2000+?

The intention for using clamps is for there not to be a completely dead drop and enable choice for people playing. Everything isn’t a binary only play at max efficiency or not at all. I know for myself that I’d rather play Circuit than Duviri Experience.

Clamps enable choice and tie into existing systems. Don’t want a riven? Well then you can buy something else from the shop. It takes minor effort to expand it.

That depends what you see as generic. Like I've said I'd do Circuit from time to time for pre-built items etc. Not every single week but from time to time which I think is fair replay attendance. I dont see how SE has anything to do with this since SE is the loot intended for SP, so is comparable with the current Circuit rewards (dead to us but not to others). This is also more inline with the measly SE reward from Circuit, which doesnt attract anyone to run it since you can just get it from SP regularly or incursions and gives access to the exact same offerings.

But it is completely dead. Adding it would be utterly pointless since it wouldnt be a lasting addition. It is already at an up hill the moment it is added since people already have large amounts of it and there are much quicker ways to obtain it. If they add a token instead, how many do you think would actually use that token to pick up clamps instead of something more infinite and/or more consuming/gated/rare to obtain?

And a simple new token would do the same but better. Clamps would never bring me back to Circuit, not even if I run out of them since I can already get them quicker elsewhere. Expanding the vendor with items that cost clamps would only incentivice me to run Lone Story and nothing else. Adding tokens to T5 and 10 and tying new vendor offerings to them would incentivice me to run Circuit again. Neither clamps nor rivens are good additions to the system since they are just too damn common from elsewhere already. Both are just the new endo and credit crap we've seen for so long already getting shoved into everything.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But there is alot to answer. What have you possibly spent several hundreds upon hundreds of clamps on? When I was done with arcanes I had around 900 and still have 500 or so to spare several week later. There is just nothing on the vendor to buy to drain you that hard on clamps if you've ground out all arcanes.

Acrithis's shop is minimum -140 clamps per week to clean out. You don't need to be finished with arcanes to buy stuff from her shop (shop even includes arcanes, so less Duviri Experience grinding yay). Your hundreds of clamps are just several weeks of Acrithis's shop.

And again, it really doesn't matter. The point is that even as someone "done" with Duviri, I can still find a use for Clamps, especially if Acrithis's shop was expanded a bit more. Hoarding resources instead of spending them, then complaining that any more is worthless is silly.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That depends what you see as generic. Like I've said I'd do Circuit from time to time for pre-built items etc.

Then add whatever this is to the shop. Now if you don't want to play Circuit cool, that's fine, you can play Duviri Experience and still get that reward that motivates you. But if you do decide to play Circuit, you still have that same reward that is motivating you. You're engaging with Duviri either way.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont see how SE has anything to do with this since SE is the loot intended for SP, so is comparable with the current Circuit rewards (dead to us but not to others).

The point of SE was that it is a token that still holds value and enables choice. SE isn't dead. It's bottle necked sure, but it still represents a reward that allows you to have more choice. That I have a surplus doesn't mean others can't find a use (just like you having a surplus of hoarded clamps).

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If they add a token instead, how many do you think would actually use that token to pick up clamps instead of something more infinite and/or more consuming/gated/rare to obtain?

Clamps would be that token. Have you missed the "if Acrithis's shop was expanded"?

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Expanding the vendor with items that cost clamps would only incentivice me to run Lone Story and nothing else.

You're doing this again

5 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Everything isn’t a binary only play at max efficiency or not at all.

It's not like it's that hard to just balance amounts either. SP Duviri Experience takes what, 20-25 min? SP Circuit takes what, 200 min? Make T5 give 50 clamps and T10 give 100 then. Numbers aren't that hard to adjust to make the rates close. Have whatever your new rewards that motivate you be priced sufficiently high in Acrithis's shop.

Edited October 4, 2023 by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

id rather get clamps as overall i hate playing duvieri in general  

[Jylon]

rivens are not the best replacement, especially when many folks like myself, are at near max rivens with not much interest in acquiring more.  the clamps are a much better idea, but they want to make duviri as evergreen and lasting as possible, so i doubt clamps will come anywhere else. 

 

so...let's maybe suggest happy-happy even less common stuff, the kind that should be in Heirloom packs to make the "everybody must be rich" bloat worthwhile ---- items like UMBRA FORMA.  Heck, most peoples keep wanting slots for weps, frames, etc, so maybe packs of 3 slots of some inventory type, or special booster one can manually activate (can be started at any time) 24-hour boosters would definitely lure in those who feel they are done collecting incarnons.  i may be out of touch with veiled rivens these days, are they still that desired?

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Acrithis's shop is minimum -140 clamps per week to clean out. You don't need to be finished with arcanes to buy stuff from her shop (shop even includes arcanes, so less Duviri Experience grinding yay). Your hundreds of clamps are just several weeks of Acrithis's shop.

And again, it really doesn't matter. The point is that even as someone "done" with Duviri, I can still find a use for Clamps, especially if Acrithis's shop was expanded a bit more. Hoarding resources instead of spending them, then complaining that any more is worthless is silly.

So you bought all the crap, which was also what I asked iirc. See that explains it. It doesnt explain though why someone that is fine with buying crap suddenly wants more crap, or cares what crap is provided at the tier stages.

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Then add whatever this is to the shop. Now if you don't want to play Circuit cool, that's fine, you can play Duviri Experience and still get that reward that motivates you. But if you do decide to play Circuit, you still have that same reward that is motivating you. You're engaging with Duviri either way.

That really doesnt solve the problem that DE seems to want to solve. It just makes it worse since an even more generic items gets added, with even less incentive than rivens.

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

The point of SE was that it is a token that still holds value and enables choice. SE isn't dead. It's bottle necked sure, but it still represents a reward that allows you to have more choice. That I have a surplus doesn't mean others can't find a use (just like you having a surplus of hoarded clamps).

I still dont see the relation between it and clamps in this case aside from if clamps are added to circuit at which point both SE and clamps are worthless rewards across the tiers. SP and Duviri Experience are comparable regarding SE and clamps. But we arent here, nor are DE here, to give more reasons to farm clamps, they are trying to give more reasons to play Circuit.

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Clamps would be that token. Have you missed the "if Acrithis's shop was expanded"?

Which again doesnt solve what DE wants to solve by the looks of it.

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You're doing this again

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

It's not like it's that hard to just balance amounts either. SP Duviri Experience takes what, 20-25 min? SP Circuit takes what, 200 min? Make T5 give 50 clamps and T10 give 100 then. Numbers aren't that hard to adjust to make the rates close. Have whatever your new rewards that motivate you be priced sufficiently high in Acrithis's shop.

And you refuse to see why DE wants to add things to Circuit specifically. And those rates you mention are far off from the intent. They should in reality reward as much as a riven costs, since that is the intended reward to take the T5 and T10 spots. Plus you again manage to come up with what would look like amateur hour in development with a vendor having the same items range massively in cost while being offered for the same currency.

Why are you so against a unique currency that would actually not result in the design of the vendor looking like a project from an intern with brain damage?