October 2023 Riven Dispositions

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

oof, only buffs, that means things are still underperforming :(

[Mixnek]

Thank you for the buffs. Yet, I don't understand how bad the ratio between riven cap. to weapon quantity must get before something is done. Have you counted the items that allow for a riven? Well over 350 different unique weapons (variants excluded).

[Mr.SpookSpook]

On 2023-10-17 at 7:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

We will try our best to avoid decreases from now on

Finally a sane decision. Now, please release every weapon with a minimum of 1 for disposition...

No weapon should be stuck with 0.5 dispo when rivens are not even worth slotting at all at that point. Rivens take a lot of investment to get with usable stats. No riven should have such low dispo that the stats are gonna be inferior to normal mods.

[Halo]

Hespar needs riven love, like as soon as possible...

A cool melee weapon but underused and bogged down due to a bad stance, genuinely an unruly and extremely minor upgrade to make it usable. 

That's just my two cents, as the Corufell is just better by sheer force of it being a gun-scythe that benefits from Condition Overload with the heavy attacks it creates. Also not bogged down by the stance since well, you aren't using it... AND IT GOT A FULL POINT AS AN UPGRADE (0.65 to a 0.75)...

Reminds me why we need another Blade & Whip stance too, but eh, that's just asking too much. 

[Binket_]

Wow, was reading through the comments (horrible choice, I know) and just... yeah. Wow.
It's really appalling how half the community is this blind... and the other half just gets dismissed when it comes to facing brass tacks.

Eh, screw it. I'll add some wood for the pyre, I suppose.

On 2023-10-18 at 4:55 PM, wizardeiges said:

Doesn't help that the alt fire puts you in a stun lock everytime you fire it AND you get a hard landing if you fire it in the air like it's so super strong to the point it needs to stun lock the player when fired. What a joke.

Than you get situations like the Velocitus which does a very similar stun on every full charge shot.
Unlike the Larkspur though, it has no alternate fire. It's a single pinpoint sniper-like shot with no AoE whatsoever.
In any situation that isn't explicitly Archwing? You're better off using a Rubico Prime at that point.

Which is a shame, because you'd think the Velocitus would fit the idea of "super gun you pull out if the situation demands it" perfectly.
Press your deployer, drop the Velocitus and whatever you shoot dies instantly. Immense power limited only to the size of the shot.
But since other guns can hit that same kinda power with a much larger coverage and without stunning the player? Why bother?

Don't even get me started on Dual Decurions. Looks cool to wield two massive pistols, but it's really just that. Two massive pistols. Nothing else.
Imperator and Phaedra are effectively identical in all but stats.

DE seems to think Archguns are fine the way they are, but than hands up weapons like the Bramma with a big "Lmao, I dunno." sticker on it.
I'm not even mad at the power, exactly. I'm just mad at the lack of consistency.

On 2023-10-18 at 5:27 PM, VikingHelm said:

Why are you guys calling for nerfs in a PvE game?

What is wrong with you?

Because balance isn't exactly a PvP thing?
I don't know why that's so hard for people to understand, you can't powercreep things into the skies-- that's the same mindset governors have when they """accidentally""" cause inflation.

"Print more money! That'll fix the economy!" is no different in tone than with "Just do more buffs! That'll fix the game!"
Eventually things get out of control, the proposed solution isn't working and there's even more damage dealt.
Short term fixes often cause way more long-term damage.

I've seen this whole "buff, not nerf" mentality multiple times in this game.
It's just ONE of the reasons Melee got shafted so hard when Maiming Strike was the main cause at the time.
People didn't want their precious mod that ruined balance to be touched, but wanted the game to change.
^{It was just unsustainable and I'm going to blame DE for thinking that was going to work... but blame them MORE for listening to that idiocy.}

Oh well, c'est le vie I suppose.

On 2023-10-18 at 6:41 PM, wizardeiges said:

"but you don't need a riven!" i've heard some people argue with for years, well technically you don't need a single mod to kill a grineer. Or maybe I want to mod my weapons in a looter shooter that constantly gear checks the player and constantly throws out new mods so you can become stronger or change how you play. What a silly argument that is.

On one hand? I can see the potential fun in Rivens. Being able to work towards something that really pushes the limits of your weapons to their fullest.
On the other? I see nothing but headache as people bicker and complain with no real idea what the real issue is.

RNG.
At it's core? It makes anything cool that Rivens could be into nothing but a lottery. A waste of time that provides the user with nothing but headache.
However, since Rivens have been so rooted into the game? They cannot be uprooted without causing some kinda fuss.
When changing Rivens even SLIGHTLY can cause an uproar? Productive intents or not, that's a sign it's going nowhere.

Anything justifiable a Riven could be is undone with the notion of luck.
"Standard" builds- a metaphorical blueprint of sorts to show an idea of what a weapon can do- effectively disallows Rivens because there's very little chance one can roll the exact same Riven as someone else. Much less roll the "ideal" stats within a relatively decent time.
So people debate what the best stat for said weapon is, ignoring that they're all going to vary at the end of the day anyway.
A weapon that rolls the exact same stats will have different values of said stats, making it's value shift further.

It's all outside of the user's control anyway.
Hard to justify any quantifiable "skill" or "persistence" when the whims of fate answer your prayers.

 

Personally? A hypothetical system to mitigate or even outright remove RNG would make Rivens a lot more tolerable.
Modular Mods (as funny to me as the concept of that is) would be a more ideal approach to this.
A "blank" Riven would have 1 slot for free that you can add resources into to get a guaranteed stat.
Than, you can unlock more slots by doing increasingly difficult challenges.
Half inspired by the Incarnon Challenges, half because you're already spending resources to fix up the slots. This gives me a more "gradual" workaround.

Rerolling would be as simple as using Kuva for a given slot and seeing what it gives you, while also allowing you to increase the odds of certain stats with certain resources. (Neurodes, Orokin Cells, etc, etc.) With guaranteed chances being a possibility if one desires, albeit equally costly, more desired stats (like Damage) would naturally be WAY more expensive as a result.
A negative and a positive can occupy the same slot, boosting the positive in response to how much the negative takes away.
^{A negative and positive of the same type cannot exist on the same Riven entirely for obvious cheesing reasons.}
Stacking too many of "similar" types of buffs would lessen the effect of that family's power a bit.
(Critical Chance and Critical Damage for instance)

This has the benefit of doing what Rivens are supposed to do: Supercharge weapons, with more power going to lesser-used ones.
This also has another benefit, choice to reward creatively getting your power.
Disposition can than reflect the cost of upgrades and their overall power equally, while the player themselves can morph the weapon how they choose.
Allowing players to experiment with Rivens knowing they might be costly is their double-edged sword. Power, but must be done wisely.

Example: A Pyrana Riven being...
[Slot1:+120% Damage, -60% Magazine] (+40% from negative)
[Slot2: +70% Reload, -50% Zoom] (+12% from negative)
[Slot3: +40% Critical]
Than a clever player (who planned ahead) would use Arcane Awakening, which gives even more damage on reloads.
Since they'll be reloading often, but very quickly.

 

... realistically? I find it's less apt if you need/don't need a Riven. That's irrelevant, the whole game is easy.
Rather, I think it's best to reward players willing to learn the system and use it to it's fullest. Encouraging players to be creative versus being brutish.
It'd be a great change of pace, really.

On 2023-10-18 at 6:41 PM, wizardeiges said:

Blows my mind they ruin primes out of the gate when they used to be exciting to get because they were a slightly buffed version of something you already used for years or at the very least made you relook at a weapon you didn't care for before since it got a new variant.

And yeah, this too is silly to me.

There's a reason I still use Pyrana Prime, but refuse to really bother with Gram Prime.
The former- even if it's outclassed- has a fun gimmick to it and remains solid as a result. It does something nothing else can, without being too broken.
The latter is just better strictly because of it's stats. Otherwise, it's extremely replacable.

Like... can DE tell me the difference between Scindo Prime, Gram Prime and Galatine Prime that isn't just their stats?
If I didn't like Gunsen before, Gunsen Prime isn't doing any better. No matter the stats.
^{I was genuinely disappointed that Gunsen Prime didn't do anything new. It seemed the perfect weapon to try ANYTHING new with Warfans but nope!}

The only thing in this game that makes a weapon stand in the vast pile of them we have is HOW they work.
It's but one of the things this game is good at. If they're not gonna embrace that, why am I still here?
If they keep trying to find ways to make Parkour irrelevant? That's just gutting out one of it's biggest perks.
If they're still gonna keep juggling lore and expecting people to unearth Wiki pages from 7 years ago for trivia they missed? They're not gonna pay attention.

It gets really depressing having to keep telling myself "Yeah, shame on me for thinking they would've made something cool. Should've known better."
... but, that's the reality of it. No matter how much it sucks the fun out of it, dreaming ain't gonna fix it.

Only THEY can.
^{And ain't that dandy?}

On 2023-10-19 at 4:22 AM, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Also, GHOULSAW has an accuracy and headshot stat

I recall all weapons internally have those stats, it's just not as relevant for Melees.
I wouldn't worry about "accuracy" as not even the game knows what it's calculating half the time.

But headshots? Yeah, believe it or not: ALL Melees can headshot. It's just not very likely for most of them.
Overhead swings- especially from stances like Rending Crane- are really good this, actually.

Coincidentally, it's also this small fact as to why I want a Scindo (and it's Prime) augment that works off of said headshots.
Seeing as it's innate stance polarity is the aforementioned Rending Crane, along with it's mention of it being an "Executioner Axe". Usually such used in decapitations.
It's only naturally fitting AND since it has a lot of skins? DE could make decent use out of it yet.

... but much like your Ghoulsaw? It goes unnoticed. In favor of the commonly parroted "favorites" getting even more stronger for inane reasons.
That's just how Warframe is, really.

On 2023-10-20 at 2:47 PM, Mr.SpookSpook said:

Finally a sane decision. Now, please release every weapon with a minimum of 1 for disposition...

Y'know, it never gets any easier having to believe that people say such things seriously.
... at least, I hope you're kidding. It'd be terrible to find out that you say and think these things.
As if they aren't silly as can be, trying to make a situation where that's just not going to work long-term.

Right? Riiiiiight. You couldn't possibly be that dense, pal! So let's get back on track!
Please and thank you.

On 2023-10-21 at 6:05 PM, Halo said:

Hespar needs riven love, like as soon as possible...

I feel it should've just been a Heavy Blade with a unique gimmick, rather than being a whole new category of Melees.
Don't get me wrong, new types of weapons are cool and all... but not when they serve to detriment the weapons in question.

 

On 2023-10-17 at 2:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

We will try our best to avoid decreases from now on.

As for DE themselves...

Perhaps some of the mentions of this comment might be of interest?
After all, we- community and staff alike- know damn well that the Riven system has enough flaws to warrant a bit of a looksie into it's clockwork innards.

The first step to that- like it or not- is acknowledging why it's flawed.
Keyword: Why.

Finding out why it's broken can boil down to a lot of functions of it.
Find the basics of them and see what each of them are working against.

You cannot find a "how" to this without a "why" it's not working.
I say this because I've been finding you've been getting into the habits of shoving things into the game without thinking long-term.
... and you kinda NEED long-term. Soulframe may be a decent safety-net for a bit of time, but you can't assure that.
Warframe needs to be better if you want to keep going. To make Warframe better? You gotta keep fixing up what came before.

If a furnance is burning fuel too quickly, just adding more fuel will simply be a death sentence.
Your fuel is not infinite... and in this hypothetical? Your fuel is time, money and resources.
One of these can be used to make the two burn more efficiently, but it must be put it correctly.
Do you know which it is?
^{It's resource, in case you need a blunt answer.}

The Riven system is but one of the many in this game. Simply "adding only buffs" will not fix it, nor will any level of disposition changes.
The suggestion I put in the reply to wizardeiges there is put one of a myriad of proposed solutions.
If that one isn't sufficient? I'm plenty sure there's something in there that can help.

 

I'm harsh on folks that I know can do better. No amount of sweet-talking would change their mind, so thus my tactics change in response.
There is no shame in asking for help, as shame comes to those who sold their sight to avoid a fight.

[Damocles]

To be honest, the current system is weird, DE wants to keep rivens being a pain in the arsenal because:

• There are a lot of random stats nobody really wants, some don't even affect the weapon, harmless negatives/positives, but they exist to make a good/god roll less likely. Therefore, inflated value for riven mods that are good
• Rarer god rolls are worth more platinum incentivizing players to flood the market with more platinum to make these purchases, and so DE benefits from a harder riven system.

However, on the flip side:

• DE controls how effective a riven is for a particular weapon, and they don't understand how players feel about their ride-or-die loadouts being effected by the whimsical moods of the "unseen riven counsel". Especially when there exists a downside with 0.5 disposition rivens being on average no better than a regular mod given the opportunity cost of the mod slot, making 0.5 rivens nearly worthless. (Remember it's proportional, increasing feels less impactful than decreasing a number already nearing 0)
• Then there's the "extreme" of 1.55 dispo rivens. Not only are these exclusive to horrendously bad weapons, but the base weapons are typically SO BAD that even an impossible 10.0 Disposition riven is unlikely to make those weapons on par with current "meta weapons"

Seems nowadays, meta weapons are just 2 flavors:

1. Easy to use and by extension fun (Not used because of rivens)
2. Effective but maybe a bit harder to use (Only used because of rivens)

Now #1 doesn't benefit much from rivens, but #2 certainly does. But ironically, majority uses #1 often because they're fun to use in a video game (OMG I know, hard to believe people try to have fun in video game!) so their dispo is lowered as a result of usage but remember that's not why they're used so who cares? And the #2 weapons are greatly effected by rivens, so people use those too only to ironically bring the disposition down by virtue of using it for the riven.

To be honest, the system needs an overhaul that will never happen. It's currently too volatile, controversial, contradicting, and lacks transparency and intended functionality.