October 2023 Riven Dispositions

[[DE]Connor]

Greetings Tenno!

Grendel Prime Access has rolled out across all platforms, along with our Abyss of Dagath update - read on for a heaping helping of Riven Disposition talk.

Some of you may recall that our last Riven Disposition changes involved a “pause” on Disposition decreases, as we observed usage stats on the newest Incarnon weapons. While these weapons are obviously quite powerful, our stats show that 6 months after their release, none of them are problematically meta-defining. So unless that changes, we plan to leave Rivens which affect Incarnons untouched for the foreseeable future!

In the grand scheme of Warframe, Rivens contribute less to a weapon’s overall power than they did on release in 2016. So while adjustments do help us fine-tune usage and strength, we’ve heard your reactions to regular Disposition decreases, and have decided to try things a bit differently going forward.

We will try our best to avoid decreases from now on. We still withhold the right to address overinflated values where necessary or change this approach if it doesn’t work out, but if a weapon is problematically powerful, we would ideally ensure the base weapon is in the right place before we consider a Disposition reduction.

So similar to last time, here’s our current round of Riven Disposition adjustments. Thanks everyone!

PRIMARIES

Spoiler

Cinta: 0.7->0.85

Fulmin: 0.8->0.85
Fulmin Prime: 0.5->0.6

Gotva Prime: 0.5->0.65

Nataruk: 0.6->0.65

Perigale: 0.85->0.95

Prisma Lenz: 0.5->0.7

Rauta: 0.6->0.75

Steflos: 0.8->0.95

SECONDARIES

Spoiler

Afuris Prime: 0.85->0.9

Tenet Plinx: 0.6->0.65

MELEE

Spoiler

Argo & Vel: 0.5->0.7

Azothane: 0.7->0.8

Cobra & Crane Prime: 0.9->0.95

Corufell: 0.65->0.75

Edun: 0.7->0.8

Gunsen Prime: 0.5->0.65

Hespar: 0.8->0.85

Prisma Ohma: 0.5->0.7

Sarofang: 0.75->0.8

Slaytra: 0.85->0.9

Stropha: 0.5->0.55

Sun & Moon: 0.7->0.8

Syam: 0.65->0.75

ARCHGUNS

Spoiler

 

Larkspur Prime: 0.6->0.65

[Gaz_TTV]

thanks, galvanized archgun mods when? :)

[Famecans]

melee needs help😑

[https.liam]

W

[Thicky]

Oldest weapon you guys are covering here is the Nataruk, how about all the other weapons? Only two secondaries??

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

Only two secondaries? That doesn't seem like much. 

[(NSW)jhj82]

Seems like a good direction to take not nerfing any incarnons. However some other weapons need some affection.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Thicky said:

Oldest weapon you guys are covering here is the Nataruk, how about all the other weapons?

I would guess it's because older weapon dispos have already normalized--as far as DE is concerned--having already gone through a 7+ dispo reviews.  Dispo updates should be rare at that point, basically only happening if something is added to or nerfed on the weapon, or there is a meta shift that particularly favors it or hits it particularly hard.

[(XBOX)Mazda RX8 R3]

Please buff the arca scisco dispo in the next pass! It’s such a fun but highly underrated weapon that needs a bit of a buff!

[ranafasihzubair]

This doesn't sit right with me. Weapons like the tiberon, perigale, tigris have lower disposition than the burston incarnon which is one of the strongest weapons in the entire game... Isn't the riven system supposed to have stronger stats for weaker weapons?

[(PSN)AinzOoalGown456]

Thank you for keeping things simple this round. 

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, ranafasihzubair said:

This doesn't sit right with me. Weapons like the tiberon, perigale, tigris have lower disposition than the burston incarnon which is one of the strongest weapons in the entire game... Isn't the riven system supposed to have stronger stats for weaker weapons?

OTOH nerfing Burston dispo would screw over people with a riven and no adapter...unless DE could separate dispos.

But yeah, its pretty goofy in context.  Even if no single Incarnon Genesis has taken over the meta yet, DE's own explanation for dispo changes says they're based on power as well as popularity.  Incarnon Torid isn't a wee bit powerful for a 1.3 dispo?  Please.  :P

 

[Waeleto]

Latron and torid escaping nerfs again, interesting

[ranafasihzubair]

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

OTOH nerfing Burston dispo would screw over people with a riven and no adapter...unless DE could separate dispos.

But yeah, its pretty goofy in context.  Even if no single Incarnon Genesis has taken over the meta yet, DE's own explanation for dispo changes says they're based on power as well as popularity.  Incarnon Torid isn't a wee bit powerful for a 1.3 dispo?  Please.  :P

 

I agree that it would screw people over who has rivens, but did they really expect rivens for one of the strongest weapons in the game to stay overpowered? Seeing as we know the system is based on power it shouldn't be the case so anyone who invested in rivens for them should have kept that in mind. The same way that the telos boltor bug made it super strong, players who invested into that weapons should have known it was going to get fixed so them getting screwed over is okay imo.

If DE decides to keep rivens the way they are, they have to buff every other disposition around the incarnon ones (because like I said, tiberon should not have worse rivens than burston incarnon). They could also just have them have different dispositions when infused when incarnon genesis adapters, or have different dispos when incarnon mode is active.

[Bossman252621]

4 minutes ago, ranafasihzubair said:

They could also just have them have different dispositions when infused when incarnon genesis adapters, or have different dispos when incarnon mode is active.

Or just make rivens not affect the incarnon mode at all

[Tiltskillet]

28 minutes ago, ranafasihzubair said:

I agree that it would screw people over who has rivens, but did they really expect rivens for one of the strongest weapons in the game to stay overpowered? Seeing as we know the system is based on power it shouldn't be the case so anyone who invested in rivens for them should have kept that in mind.

I have no issue with that at all.  What I do have a minor issue with is that there are effectively two versions of each Incarnon weapon, not counting variants.  One version, without an adapter, is the same as it always was, usually quite weak, which is reflected in their dispo.  Then there's the version with an  adapter, which is nearly always a top 50 weapon, and some of them have a case for top 5.

I did say "minor" issue though, as I feel like there aren't very many people who are fans of the base weapons, have rivens for them, and who won't be at least planning on upgrading with an adapter at some point.

 

[KitMeHarder]

On 2023-10-17 at 1:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

but if a weapon is problematically powerful, we would ideally ensure the base weapon is in the right place before we consider a Disposition reduction.

I'd rather the riven be nerfed.

[wizardeiges]

Larkspur Prime: 0.6->0.65

lmao still not even close to any reason to use this weapon over regular larkspur and even then it's such a crap archgun compared to almost every other one it's laughable.
Doesn't help that the alt fire puts you in a stun lock everytime you fire it AND you get a hard landing if you fire it in the air like it's so super strong to the point it needs to stun lock the player when fired. What a joke.

I dream of the day you stop ruining prime access by nerfing all dispositions of old weapons given prime variants out of the gate. Takes half a year if not YEARS for these weapons to be usable over their several year old variant that has significantly higher stats with the same riven because you refuse to let upgraded weapon variants be better than the 5+ year old weapon it's a variant of.

I get it, you don't like it when people try to use primed masseter, a weapon that people spent real money on and waited years for, over the normal masseter that came out in 2019.
If I like a weapon then it has a riven to make it better, only natural to upgrade your gear in a loot shooter built around gear checking constantly.
It blows my mind how terrible you treat new variants of old weapons as if we aren't supposed to use new variant gear until YEARS after they've released to make them viable over what we already have in the same weapon set.

Maybe you hate the idea that weapons should have a upgrade path? mk1 to non to prism to prime etc.  Where mk1 can still be better than some regal ancient prime weapon of war made by the war smiths themselves, the orokin. No wonder they lost the war, their gear sucked compared to mass produced weapons everyone was making in their shed.

Before anyone loses it, my post is about prime weapons that are variants of old weapons, not brand new weapons. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by wizardeiges

[VikingHelm]

Why are you guys calling for nerfs in a PvE game?

 

What is wrong with you?

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, (NSW)jhj82 said:

Seems like a good direction to take not nerfing any incarnons. However some other weapons need some affection.

Incarnons are forced admittance that Disposition is flawed from the ground up. This is pseudo-making-everything-the-same-disposition. Would be nice to just rip the band-aid off so that DE doesn't need to spend time on this part of the game, and player inventories aren't affected. It would also make new variants of existing weapons not dead on arrival.

[wizardeiges]

1 hour ago, VikingHelm said:

Why are you guys calling for nerfs in a PvE game?

 

What is wrong with you?

Probably people trying to sabotage the game or people that just hate that others have fun. 

[wizardeiges]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Incarnons are forced admittance that Disposition is flawed from the ground up. This is pseudo-making-everything-the-same-disposition. Would be nice to just rip the band-aid off so that DE doesn't need to spend time on this part of the game, and player inventories aren't affected. It would also make new variants of existing weapons not dead on arrival.

I'll see you in 3 years when masseter prime is more usable over masseter that came out in 2019. 
Blows my mind they ruin primes out of the gate when they used to be exciting to get because they were a slightly buffed version of something you already used for years or at the very least made you relook at a weapon you didn't care for before since it got a new variant.

"but you don't need a riven!" i've heard some people argue with for years, well technically you don't need a single mod to kill a grineer. Or maybe I want to mod my weapons in a looter shooter that constantly gear checks the player and constantly throws out new mods so you can become stronger or change how you play. What a silly argument that is.

Funny enough they've nerfed acceltra so hard into the ground that it'll be the only weapon in years that gets a prime that'll probably be better than its multi year old variant because acceltra has been stuck at a 0.6 and the prime will be at 0.5.
Hopefully, fingers crossed, that the acceltra prime might actually be better than normal acceltra with a riven. I want to use my favorite weapons upgrades when they come out, not in several years when DE decides it's okay to replace my 3 year old+ weapons with.
 

Edited October 18, 2023 by wizardeiges

[Revacon]

Me watching with my 0.6 dispo acceltra as every other player on the squad outperforms me with several different incarnons all with more then double my riven dispo(they aren't even using rivens), BecAuSE BaLeNce. What's even worse is I know DE would sink every incarnon dispo straight to 0.5 and keep them there if they didn't gaslight themselves into being cowards, only nerfing when they think they can get away with it. (Pls revert starting riven dispos to 1 if your going to let the best weapons in the game sit at above 1 forever, I want to have fun with the acceltra prime).

[owendawgx]

While I am glad to see that riven dispositions have not been lowered for weapons that didn't need it (Soma, Boltor Incarnons,) where does this leave the rest of the cast?

I made a post here talking about how weaker weapons often end up with very middling dispositions that do nothing to change their place in the game. The Vaykor Marelok and the Lex Prime should not have comparable dispositions, would it not make sense to raise the max disposition so that truly subpar weapons could be given the larger boost they need? The max riven disposition was put in place before Steel Path existed, and we have weapons like the Tenet Flux Rifle sitting around the middle, with far superior weapons now above them.

The Steflos here had its disposition raised from .8 to .95, but is eclipsed by half a dozen weapons with almost identical mechanics at this point, and it likely wouldn't be a competitive option even if its disposition eventually neared max. 

I hope this is the first step towards a larger design change for rivens' place in the game. Thanks for outlining your thought process in this post :)

 

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Smh, atleast Two riven rotations and no buffs for the GHOULSAW, what's going on?

 

I've gotten GHOULSAW upto my Most Used Melee Weapon when viewing my usage stats in the profie screen.

Also, GHOULSAW has an accuracy and headshot stat, like gunblades and thrown glaives and Corufel and thrown Zaws and other melees with ranged attacks. Magnetic Flying Sawblades when DE? 

I showed you my dedication to GHOULSAW please respond