Topaz archon shards

[ReceptiveOG]

So I put on two Topaz tauforged archon shards onto Mesa with the stat "Increase secondary crit chance by 1.5% everytime you kill an enemy affected by heat damage".

I tested it in the Simulacrum spawning 20 enemies and using the Epitaph to hit the enemies with heat and also proc multiple heat status on them all (although I know it has nothing to do with heat status, i did it anyway just to make sure). The enemies were 100% all affected by heat damage yet when I killed all 20 of them with the regulators I would only get between 6%-12% crit chance from the Topaz archon shards. From reading the archon shard description and them now stacking with eachother I should get 3% crit chance per kill (1.5% per shard) making 20 kills = 60% crit chance for secondarys and 50 kills = the total 150% , however this was not the case.

(I also tried Primed heated charge on the regulators to see if it was a problem with using an outside source of heat rather than heat on the regulators themselves and the same thing occurs)

I would appreciate some feedback on if i'm correct on how they are supposed to work and if so ill be eagerly awaiting the fix 😃

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

how long ago did you do this testing, there was a recent hotfix that address this/or similar issue

[ReceptiveOG]

Tested this earlier, maybe 4 hours ago or so. The shards do eventually stack up to the full 150% from two tauforged shards but you need like 200kills+ to get them there when you should only need 50kills. All the enemies I tested on were proc'd with heat and under the affects of heat yet it would only stack 1/5 kills at best. I also tested it with the Furis incarnon which was modded for pure heat and even with all my damage and procs being heat it still stacked slowly, the same way the regulators did.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ReceptiveOG

[Birdframe_Prime]

53 minutes ago, ReceptiveOG said:

Tested this earlier, maybe 4 hours ago or so.

Well, you're in luck, this was 3 hours ago in the latest Hotfix:

Quote

• Fixed Topaz Archon Shard traits applying the buffs every 5 kills instead of every kill where described.

So give it a go ^^

[ReceptiveOG]

8 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well, you're in luck, this was 3 hours ago in the latest Hotfix:

So give it a go ^^

Oh nice, will do 😮

Edited December 21, 2023 by ReceptiveOG

[ReceptiveOG]

Quote

18 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well, you're in luck, this was 3 hours ago in the latest Hotfix:

So give it a go ^^

 

Well, they fixed the kills issue as its now stacking like it should. I get 50 kills and it gives me 150% crit chance however the crit chance is now addative rather than flat cc making the shards alot worse than before :/

[Triple_Prime]

38 minutes ago, ReceptiveOG said:

Well, they fixed the kills issue as its now stacking like it should. I get 50 kills and it gives me 150% crit chance however the crit chance is now addative rather than flat cc making the shards alot worse than before :/

Yeah this sucks, my Ocucor was getting red crits yesterday and now I might as well not even equip anything with the difference it makes. I was about to rip out some tauforged shards and make more topaz ones, but since DE can't make up their minds about this, nevermind.

[ShogunGunshow]

Leave it to the warframe community to look at shards that, when tauforged and stacked, give them a bonus twice as good as primed pistol gambit, and they complain that it's not the obviously unintended flat crit that it was before.

Y'all are silly if you thought THAT was staying.

[ReceptiveOG]

19 minutes ago, Triple_Prime said:

Yeah this sucks, my Ocucor was getting red crits yesterday and now I might as well not even equip anything with the difference it makes. I was about to rip out some tauforged shards and make more topaz ones, but since DE can't make up their minds about this, nevermind.

Yep, big rip.... Still good on mesa as ive now put on 3 tauforged and two normal ones making the crit chance increase about 81.25%. 71.8% base with Pistol gambit + 81.25% with the shards gets me up to 153% base cc on the regulators when the shards are stacked up from the first 50 kills. Adding Avenger and ceramic dagger which is +90% cc i get too 243% and since all these buffs are practically constant i'm permanently at 243%. With the crit cat i can reach 303% half the time so its still better than the Red shards by quite abit but yeah big rip overall.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ReceptiveOG

[ReceptiveOG]

2 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Leave it to the warframe community to look at shards that, when tauforged and stacked, give them a bonus twice as good as primed pistol gambit, and they complain that it's not the obviously unintended flat crit that it was before.

Y'all are silly if you thought THAT was staying.

Really isn't that deep. I know people like you enjoy to belittle and act as if you know everything before it happens when in reality we were just enjoying what we had and that's now been taken away due to bad implamentation on the part of DE. They never should have given flat crit if it wasn't intended. Im sure they didn't intend to give flat crit and take it away a week later so why were they added with flat crit to begin with. Is nothing tested before release?

The point is it was fun and sure OP in comparison to other shards but whats not OP in warframe?

[ShogunGunshow]

12 minutes ago, ReceptiveOG said:

Is nothing tested before release?

[ReceptiveOG]

1 minute ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Not my first time knowing something was acting incorrectly before being patched, but my first time having it directly affect my most used warframe and builds so a lil salty tbh :/

but 243% crit chance on reglators 95% of the time is good enough for me still. And ofc the cat buff making that 303% is always a nice bonus so hasn't hit too hard. But my future plans for the shards have been impacted to say the least. 😑

[ShogunGunshow]

Hey, I get it. It can be upsetting when you think that you had something super crazy and then it's nerfed down to being good. Especially after you impulse-fused stuff to commit to it. I have sympathy. I've done similar things in the past.

But let this be a lesson. When you look at something that's just been released and you go 'oh my god, that's crazy!', your follow-up thought should be 'wait, oh my god, that's crazy. Is that actually intended?', and wait for the dust to settle before going all-in, especially with a limited resource that you can't takesies-backsies. 

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

 When you look at something that's just been released and you go 'oh my god, that's crazy!', your follow-up thought should be 'wait, oh my god, that's crazy. Is that actually intended?', and wait for the dust to settle before going all-in, especially with a limited resource that you can't takesies-backsies. 

Ex-act-ly.

And yes @ReceptiveOG you are still totally right that this stuff should be vetted and caught before release.  But even if DE miraculously got 5x better at doing so, this crap is still going to happen.  I gamble on some stuff like this sticking around too, but I always recognize that I'm gambling.

I do think it's pretty horrendous design that unfusing shards wasn't a thing from the beginning, and apparently never will be.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[ReceptiveOG]

11 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Hey, I get it. It can be upsetting when you think that you had something super crazy and then it's nerfed down to being good. Especially after you impulse-fused stuff to commit to it. I have sympathy. I've done similar things in the past.

But let this be a lesson. When you look at something that's just been released and you go 'oh my god, that's crazy!', your follow-up thought should be 'wait, oh my god, that's crazy. Is that actually intended?', and wait for the dust to settle before going all-in, especially with a limited resource that you can't takesies-backsies. 

Good advice, i should of definitely thought of that first. Ngl, it didn't even cross my mind as i was hyped to get perma red crits but yeah i will do that for next time 😅

Still in this case the topaz shards are still the most op shard you can have on mesa increasing your normal run and gun crit chance to the same as pre update was with the crit cat. So i still got an overall big crit increase and now permanently deal half orange half red crits with the occasional crit cat buff making it pure reds. So luckily i would have still made the same investment regardless 👍

[ShogunGunshow]

I love DE but their QA is some of the worst. At least they've gotten responsive about fixing things relatively quickly after their release nowadays.

Not like Theorem Arcanes, which have been bugged as not showing as refreshing at max stacks since their release - but actually do. So you can be moving from zone to zone trying to get the buff back up, and it won't show up on the UI and you'll be frustrated that you're not getting it, but the game won't show the buff on the bar anymore because you DO already have it, the timer expired. 

Or the fiasco with some of the augment refreshes last year or so. I'm pretty sure NOBODY tested some of those. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

55 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Probably the most appropriate use of that meme ive ever seen.

[b1b1top]

1st test - titania 3x crimzon(red) on cc for sec + 2x tauforged topaz (dex pixia max yellow crits)

bearly almost no improvement for any weapons - rattleguts, cycron + tenet one, sonicor, dex furis, epitaph, kuva nucor; killed up to 150%

2nd test - titania + 3x regular topaz + 2x tauforged topazt (dex pixia max yellow crits)

just some improve on most of the above but just a bit , the only one getting to some reds was rattleguts; killed up to 299%

i do not have the heart to test hildrin + mesa :(

on theory non moded weapon can get red crit if you use any ignis with heat , easy test on lvl 20 in simulacrum to get that number of % , in reality unmoded give not worth waste time :( , it is wery sad to advertize not deliver or change mind and waste time :(

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-12-21 at 11:10 PM, ReceptiveOG said:

Yep, big rip.... Still good on mesa as ive now put on 3 tauforged and two normal ones making the crit chance increase about 81.25%. 71.8% base with Pistol gambit + 81.25% with the shards gets me up to 153% base cc on the regulators when the shards are stacked up from the first 50 kills. Adding Avenger and ceramic dagger which is +90% cc i get too 243% and since all these buffs are practically constant i'm permanently at 243%. With the crit cat i can reach 303% half the time so its still better than the Red shards by quite abit but yeah big rip overall.

Gotta ask. Where do you get the number +90% from when you mention Avanger and Ceramic Dagger in connection to Mesa Regulators? It would be +45% from Avenger and that is it, letting you reach 198% crit chance total, not 243%. If for some reason Ceramic Dagger added anything like it does for pseudo-exalted melee, it would be a 30% increase to your base crit chance before mods or anything else is added. 

I've looked and looked and looked to see if I could get any idea what you are refering to, but the only additive or well absolute crit chance add ons Mesa can get any benefit from for her ult are Avenger and Adarza crit.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb b1b1top:

1st test - titania 3x crimzon(red) on cc for sec + 2x tauforged topaz (dex pixia max yellow crits)

bearly almost no improvement for any weapons - rattleguts, cycron + tenet one, sonicor, dex furis, epitaph, kuva nucor; killed up to 150%

2nd test - titania + 3x regular topaz + 2x tauforged topazt (dex pixia max yellow crits)

just some improve on most of the above but just a bit , the only one getting to some reds was rattleguts; killed up to 299%

i do not have the heart to test hildrin + mesa :(

on theory non moded weapon can get red crit if you use any ignis with heat , easy test on lvl 20 in simulacrum to get that number of % , in reality unmoded give not worth waste time :( , it is wery sad to advertize not deliver or change mind and waste time :(

true. It might be worth it if there were long missions. although the improvement hardly convinces me. But it's usually over after 20 minutes. and I even took out power str arcane from wisp because she rarely has so many kills. Even 20 minute missions are an exception. I usually play something short and am out after 5-6 minutes.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Venus-Venera

[ReceptiveOG]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Gotta ask. Where do you get the number +90% from when you mention Avanger and Ceramic Dagger in connection to Mesa Regulators? It would be +45% from Avenger and that is it, letting you reach 198% crit chance total, not 243%. If for some reason Ceramic Dagger added anything like it does for pseudo-exalted melee, it would be a 30% increase to your base crit chance before mods or anything else is added. 

I've looked and looked and looked to see if I could get any idea what you are refering to, but the only additive or well absolute crit chance add ons Mesa can get any benefit from for her ult are Avenger and Adarza crit.

Nowhere did I say ceramic dagger is a flat cc buff. The reason I just added ceramic and avenger together is to make the math easier to understand. 
Mesa’s pistols have a base crit chance of 25%. Ceramic dagger at 9x combo gives secondary outburst 9x 20% on crit chance and crit damage. 
9 x 20% is 180% crit chance and damage.

180% of 25 (mesa’s regulators base crit chance) = 45

So yes ceramic dagger/ secondary outburst is not flat crit, but with a 9x combo gaining you 180% CC and CD you will have 45% extra crit chance from outburst. If you have 10x combo you’ll have 50% crit chance, 11x - 55% crit chance, 12x - 60% crit chance.

may have looked confusing on my previous post but I’m not saying ceramic and secondary outburst give flat crit. I’m just saying the amount of crit it works out too and pairing it with avengers 45% to make the adding on percentages easier to understand.

Edited December 23, 2023 by ReceptiveOG

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, ReceptiveOG said:

Nowhere did I say ceramic dagger is a flat cc buff. The reason I just added ceramic and avenger together is to make the math easier to understand. 
Mesa’s pistols have a base crit chance of 25%. Ceramic dagger at 9x combo gives secondary outburst 9x 20% on crit chance and crit damage. 
9 x 20% is 180% crit chance and damage.

180% of 25 (mesa’s regulators base crit chance) = 45

So yes ceramic dagger/ secondary outburst is not flat crit, but with a 9x combo gaining you 180% CC and CD you will have 45% extra crit chance from outburst. If you have 10x combo you’ll have 50% crit chance, 11x - 55% crit chance, 12x - 60% crit chance.

may have looked confusing on my previous post but I’m not saying ceramic and secondary outburst give flat crit. I’m just saying the amount of crit it works out too and pairing it with avengers 45% to make the adding on percentages easier to understand.

Ah yeah I forgot about that bug.

[Synpai]

Caution: The author is not a neutral party/player and may have inherent conflicts of interest and biases as a competitor in QA, so do your due diligence to try systems for yourself and be critical of negativity.

 

On 2023-12-21 at 6:01 PM, ShogunGunshow said:

I love DE but their QA is some of the worst. At least they've gotten responsive about fixing things relatively quickly after their release nowadays.

Not like Theorem Arcanes, which have been bugged as not showing as refreshing at max stacks since their release - but actually do. So you can be moving from zone to zone trying to get the buff back up, and it won't show up on the UI and you'll be frustrated that you're not getting it, but the game won't show the buff on the bar anymore because you DO already have it, the timer expired. 

Or the fiasco with some of the augment refreshes last year or so. I'm pretty sure NOBODY tested some of those. 

I can almost guarantee your concept of "bad" QA is incorrect (also note the bias as I've worked in the field for ~10 years). I should clarify that I'm team #LetUsSeparateTheShards, but there could be a code reason they're hesitant to implement it. Think it's always valuable to give such feedback minus the attack on devs/insinuation they're bad at their jobs.


DE never said their goal was to launch updates with 0 bugs; they've normally stated you'd get them as soon as possible meaning blockers and crashes are a priority.

If Friend texts:  "You left dishes in the sink" but you're in another state driving 100 MPH on the highway.

1. You may have glanced and saw it, but the priority of responding is low
2. The ability to even act on fixing it is not immediate
3. You weren't worried about the dishes in the sink because you were fixing the kitchen flooding that your friend didn't notice....because you fixed it :D

That's how bugs can be. While it's nice to look at a solid launch and ask "how did QA miss this glaring obvious thing," odds are you didn't get the solid launch without QA prioritizing something with higher importance.

This is the eternal pros and cons of Warframe beta:

Sometimes the bank errors in your favor like Warframe exilus adapters
Other times, the bank errors to your detriment

[VibingCat]

This bug persists. It took me 140 kills with one shard to get the full bonus, instead of 50. I didn't use any primers.