Nuke Builds Are Ruining Gameplay Enjoyment

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

  what melts at low level dosnt always melt things at higher tier, gap between points of play 

 ah the ever present rage of the person playing that they are the single player mentality in a group. you are not the only person in the room , you joined a random pub match , you will be sometimes matched with a frame that outperforms you , it happens. usually i will be trying to figure out how to better tune my setup.

frames thats been tuned to melt maps /large areas , its a difference of play/priority /efficiency , if you have a frame geared for 1v1/ 1v3 tactics its going to be less efficient than a frame setup to do 1v30 & 1v100 as examples , cannon fodder adds WILL MELT FAST , if a frame can nuke them in a room an move on faster it just means you can leave quicker and not deal with them, or faster focus/reward and move onto another squad

 many frames can be setup to nuke with variety of setups,  its all about what your trying play /work the frame

if you dont want to deal with other players or aoe, set game to single player or recruit specific frame/users to your play. 

 as a squad member there are plenty of targets to focus on instead of crowd aoe , not all players can be the nuke for sure and kill compete (aka kill starve each other) exists  , maps are big , move to a different room or dont try to sit in the same room with a nuke frame, then complain its taking all the mob/cannon fodder kills

 focus on eximus targets and nulls to guard the other squad members is a good team play and another crucial role, as most nukes cant kill them due to their innate countermeasures . 

nuke frame threads should be on the bingo card ....

 

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, MutoManiac said:

I'd really like to see fissures with modifiers for no abilities. That might help curb some of the nuke builds, but then each mission might take 10 minutes, lol.

Hah! I’d give it a shot, but I think we all know that it would need to force others into playing on the mode, and that would go about as well as expected 

[Drollive94]

Nuking is fine leave it alone , just play solo if it bothers you

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Ngl for someone at MR 27 with almost a decade under your belt, you sure have a very disjointed view of how fissures function concerning unranked weapons

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It's 50/50. I've been asked to nuke, and also not nuke. So I can obviously adjust my playstyle when needed, but some people won't, that's public life. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2024-01-20 at 9:48 AM, Jorak_Falconstar said:

Until you get a Sunder Titania fail the the Lith fissure becasue they kill everything so fast it doesnt have time to get corrupted and nobody gets enough reactant drops to open their relic.

This is why you should run fissures on Steel Path. 

[Nira]

On 2024-01-19 at 5:38 PM, Zinxori- said:

Say you got yourself a shiny new Gotva Prime from the Twitch Prime rewards, and you were itching to try it out in a mission. You pull up a Exterminate Fissure mission on Public matchmaking

There's your problem right there. Wrong tool for the job at hand my dude.

My preferred play is Harrow with Knell Prime and a good sniper rifle, but do I bring that to run for the latest prime parts? Hell naw. I'd be lucky to pop maybe two heads before the squad's on their way to extraction.

Now steel path fissures, any sort of survival, disruption, interception, basically most other game modes, it works great. But when it comes to fast fissure runs the pace is different and I'm cool with that!

[Thorham]

3 hours ago, Nira said:

Wrong tool for the job at hand my dude.

Don't you mean 'Wrong job for the tool'?

[SirKnum]

Say you got yourself a shiny new Gauss Prime relic from Apollo rewards, and you were itching to open it in a mission. You pull up a Exterminate Fissure mission on Public matchmaking, just to increase the chances of a good reward. However, inevitably, and as many of you witnessed I'm sure whether you've been playing for 5 days or 2 weeks, that IDIOTS with no consideration for the others in the squad, will bring some ridiculous "fun build" to Exterminate mission and spent the better part of 2-3 minutes on a single enemy, and the whole team is waiting at extract.

To some this is probably fine, and I'll sound like a complainer, but at MR4 Prime and playing since 2018, I've seen every decent "fun build" from Inaros Stug to stuff like Loki max strength in the current age. In things like Survival missions where the time to finish can't go up due to enemies being spread out everywhere, using a fun, powerless sightseeing setup is ABSOLUTELY VALID AND UNDERSTANDABLE. But in a simple Axi Exterminate mission??? C'mon let me just spam my Thermal Sunder and leave happy. I know I cannot be the only player who feels this way, but I'm probably one of few who would actually make a whole forum post about it. I hope this reaches players and that it generates a healthy discussion on why Fun Builds should be UNACCEPTABLE in a simple mission like an Exterminate fissure. Have respect for your fellow Tenno and LET THEM PLAY THE GAME TOO, or you'll risk stepping on someone's toes, even if you don't know it, or didn't intend it that way.

[Aruquae]

Another day, another one of these posts

You can’t control other players. 

[SDGDen]

AOE nukes have been an issue basically as long as the game has existed.

 

many people fall into the pit of "i need to play the game as efficiently as possible", resulting in ruining gameplay for everyone else. this is why saryn got nerfed, this is why ember got nerfed, this is why AOE weapons got nerfed.

every single time a nerf happens some other AOE ability or weapon will take its place. currently it's thermal sunder and incarnon weapons, once those get nerfed we'll see something else.

 

genuinely, the only way to *actually* fix "nuke spam" is not to nerf the nuke, but to nerf ability/AOE weapon spam alltogether, and maybe give heavy units "AOE resistance".

 

 

but then again, it's just a question of what you enjoy. are you here to enjoy the gameplay or are you just here because receiving the reward you wanted makes your brain produce The Dopamine(tm)? 

in my personal opinion, if the only enjoyable part of the game to you is receiving rewards as efficiently as possible, you should probably go play a different game. the point is to enjoy the journey, not just the destination. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I sympathise to a degree, but eh... We are dealing with an inherent  aspect and nature of the game, and that is player choice and variety. Which then comes with positives and benefits. For every person who wants to play the game blind, and take time enjoying the learning process, you have people who want to meta optimise, for someone who wants to enjoy a slower pace getting heat shots with a bow, you have someone who wants to engulf the entire map with fire and poison that melts all enemies. There is. alot from the game, that empowers all sorts of styles and play styles. Sometimes those styles and preferences clash. 

I myself, I quite like chilling with a bow and prioritising skill shots, like only head shots or long distance sniping, with a projectile arrow, knowing I have to lead my target. I know, that going into a PUB Relic Exterminate won't be the best place necessarily to do that... So I go solo. Not that I am telling others they have to go solo, just that I do, because thats the pace and preference I have. I also generally like single target weapons a lot, and... many of them tend to scale decently against tougher enemies, so i get to use quite a lot of them in Steel Path Survivals, without worrying too much about not getting to use the weapons. 

Basically there are a lot of variables that players can sort of learn and recognise as far as other players habits and behaviours and then use that to create opportunities for their own preferences and playstyles. Again, I sympathise, but I also know from experience, that say... a normal star chart Relic Cracking mission? Especially Exterminate and Capture? I mean, you don't even need a nuke, a tough breeze will kill those enemies, at that level... Many players just want to grind/farm things, and going fast is their style, preference etc. Its not mine necessarily, but I get it. Generally tougher missions, and endless missions, like Disruption, Survival, etc are better opportunities for a bit more diversity in builds, Interception as well, though unless its a Relic and even then, isn't super popular so you might just end up effectively solo... 

Personally I also try to read the room, and do my best to accommodate others. Have had some Relic Captures with very new players who wanted to go slower and talk more and find secrets together, and that can be fun, but also valid for many people who are rushing and just want to get their Prime stuff/forma, because maybe they don't have a lot of time for gaming etc. PUGs are PUGs. 

[UnstarPrime]

On 2024-01-19 at 9:38 AM, Zinxori- said:

Say you got yourself a shiny new Gotva Prime from the Twitch Prime rewards, and you were itching to try it out in a mission. You pull up a Exterminate Fissure mission on Public matchmaking

With respect, your problem is that you chose the literal worst mission for what you wanted to do.  The design of Exterminate missions — a linear path of enemies to kill — makes them kill races.  You misunderstood the assignment and brought a knife to a gun fight.  And that's fine, we all make mistakes.

As a fellow player who likes to explore the nuances of all manner of weapons, my advice to you is to pay closer attention to what kinds of missions allow for the kind of play experience you're looking for.  When I want the freedom to use any setup I want, I generally opt for something like Survival, where enemies are constantly coming from all directions, meaning one player isn't able to monopolize all the kills.  And in the rare case that they are, I can simply move myself to a different area and there will be enemies there, too.  In these environments, I can do whatever I want and still play the game with others.

Rarely, I want to do something that might be disrupted if others don't give me the space I need.  And in those cases, I switch to solo for a bit.  Then I'm not disrupting others, and they're not disrupting me.

As a final note, I don't think it's a problem that Exterminate missions are kill races; that's just one of many types of mission in the game.  Sometimes I want to do a kill race!  And sometimes I don't and I just want the fastest killer to get us all to the finish line ASAP.  Again, choose the appropriate mission type that corresponds to the experience you want to have, and if you do you'll be golden.

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

With respect, your problem is that you chose the literal worst mission for what you wanted to do.  The design of Exterminate missions — a linear path of enemies to kill — makes them kill races.  You misunderstood the assignment and brought a knife to a gun fight.  And that's fine, we all make mistakes.

The assignment wasn’t misunderstood, as that same design allows for players to approach however they want, which includes just fighting their way through without racing past. Exterminates are one of my favourite mission types because of how I’m not pressured by a timer or objective and can move at my own speed and how they give more freedom to build because of things like the ability to keep enemies from swarming and how we have a lot more freedom to dictate how the fights go and where they happen

The mistake that OP made was thinking a bunch of randoms in a squad are going to take their time and leave room for the game to breath

Edited January 23 by Merkranire

[UnstarPrime]

48 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

The assignment wasn’t misunderstood, as that same design allows for players to approach however they want, which includes just fighting their way through without racing past. Exterminates are one of my favourite mission types because of how I’m not pressured by a timer or objective and can move at my own speed and how they give more freedom to build because of things like the ability to keep enemies from swarming and how we have a lot more freedom to dictate how the fights go and where they happen

The phrasing I used was meant to be playful, but I also could have done a better job of including the full context behind my statement.  For clarity, I'll do that now.

Game design is inescapably bound to human psychology.  You create a set of systems, you create incentives, you create friction, you create opportunities, and then your players react to those stimuli in ways that are in many ways predictable.

For example, if you get rewards at the end of a mission, and you are able to complete missions faster or slower, this design creates an incentive to complete missions faster; faster completion times will result in a higher rate of loot, and thus players are more likely to want to complete missions quickly.  Ergo, in a non-timed Fissure mission where most players are there specifically for the loot, it should never come as a surprise to see players trying to complete missions as quickly as possible, thus maximizing the rate at which they are acquiring loot.

Similarly, it's fun to kill enemies in Warframe.  And in Exterminate missions — where there is simply a linear path of enemies without respawns — if one player is meaningfully quicker at killing enemies than the others, that means the other players aren't going to be able to get many kills and will struggle to get the kills they do get.  Thus, the design of Exterminate missions incentivizes an arms race: if you want kills, you are encouraged to be the fastest killingest Warfarme in the west.  And over time, players have done a great job cultivating a variety of ways to kill with extreme speed.

To enter an Exterminate mission and expect to be able to kill at your own pace is to misunderstand the design ramifications of Exterminate missions.  To enter non-timed Fissure mission and expect to be able to kill at your own pace is to misunderstand the design ramifications of Fissure missions.  So it should come as no surprise to anyone that a mission combining both of these qualities is very likely to be speed-run.

On the contrary, you won't see this happening in Survival.  Enemies come from everywhere, and killing them faster or slower won't end the mission any sooner.  With the incentives and opportunities shifted, play shifts as well.

And to be clear, neither of these ways of playing is better than the other.  It's all different strokes.  So depending on how you're feeling at any given time, picking the right mission for that vibe will help you to get the experience you're shooting for.

[Merkranire]

35 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

The phrasing I used was meant to be playful, but I also could have done a better job of including the full context behind my statement.  For clarity, I'll do that now.

Game design is inescapably bound to human psychology.  You create a set of systems, you create incentives, you create friction, you create opportunities, and then your players react to those stimuli in ways that are in many ways predictable.

For example, if you get rewards at the end of a mission, and you are able to complete missions faster or slower, this design creates an incentive to complete missions faster; faster completion times will result in a higher rate of loot, and thus players are more likely to want to complete missions quickly.  Ergo, in a non-timed Fissure mission where most players are there specifically for the loot, it should never come as a surprise to see players trying to complete missions as quickly as possible, thus maximizing the rate at which they are acquiring loot.

Similarly, it's fun to kill enemies in Warframe.  And in Exterminate missions — where there is simply a linear path of enemies without respawns — if one player is meaningfully quicker at killing enemies than the others, that means the other players aren't going to be able to get many kills and will struggle to get the kills they do get.  Thus, the design of Exterminate missions incentivizes an arms race: if you want kills, you are encouraged to be the fastest killingest Warfarme in the west.  And over time, players have done a great job cultivating a variety of ways to kill with extreme speed.

To enter an Exterminate mission and expect to be able to kill at your own pace is to misunderstand the design ramifications of Exterminate missions.  To enter non-timed Fissure mission and expect to be able to kill at your own pace is to misunderstand the design ramifications of Fissure missions.  So it should come as no surprise to anyone that a mission combining both of these qualities is very likely to be speed-run.

On the contrary, you won't see this happening in Survival.  Enemies come from everywhere, and killing them faster or slower won't end the mission any sooner.  With the incentives and opportunities shifted, play shifts as well.

And to be clear, neither of these ways of playing is better than the other.  It's all different strokes.  So depending on how you're feeling at any given time, picking the right mission for that vibe will help you to get the experience you're shooting for.

Dude, plain and simple, randoms are just inconsiderate jerks, with a cruel irony being that they often think they’re doing someone a favour. Like I said, OP made the mistake thinking otherwise, and they need to find someone else with a willingness to not be a jerk.

The game’s pretty fun with friends when we’re not competing with each other for gameplay, the key point being that it’s a friend I’m playing with instead of some rando

Edited January 23 by Merkranire

[Berzerkules]

19 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Dude, plain and simple, randoms are just inconsiderate jerks,

So if we were to ever end up playing together we would both be inconsiderate jerks?

[Merkranire]

11 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

So if we were to ever end up playing together we would both be inconsiderate jerks?

If you’re the one that determines how we’re both going to play, I’m not sure where I even fit into this picture.

I’ll have my little gun and am built to play, and you‘ll come along and wipe everything out; I’m not needed on your team, the most I can do is minorly inconvenience you.

You don’t need to be someone who laments not being able to kick a teammate for not being built in the most efficient way possible in order to make it clear they’re not needed

[Berzerkules]

32 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

If you’re the one that determines how we’re both going to play, I’m not sure where I even fit into this picture.

I’ll have my little gun and am built to play, and you‘ll come along and wipe everything out; I’m not needed on your team, the most I can do is minorly inconvenience you.

You don’t need to be someone who laments not being able to kick a teammate for not being built in the most efficient way possible in order to make it clear they’re not needed

It's a two way street, we both determine how the mission plays out. If our goals and playstyle don't align we are both #*!%ing with the other persons good time. 

I can waste your time wiping the map and making you play follow the leader and you can waste my time making me wait at extract. Are we both are in the wrong for wasting each others time? Or is nobody an inconsiderate jerk since we both agreed to be there in the first place and take whatever comes our way?

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, Merkranire dijo:

Dude, plain and simple, randoms are just inconsiderate jerks, with a cruel irony being that they often think they’re doing someone a favour.

So if someone doesn't align with your play style, they're an inconsiderate idiot?

[Merkranire]

27 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

It's a two way street, we both determine how the mission plays out. If our goals and playstyle don't align we are both #*!%ing with the other persons good time. 

I can waste your time wiping the map and making you play follow the leader and you can waste my time making me wait at extract. Are we both are in the wrong for wasting each others time? Or is nobody an inconsiderate jerk since we both agreed to be there in the first place and take whatever comes our way?

I never agreed to join your squad, but there’s no filter to stop joining players like you aside from going out of my way to find players who aren’t taking the components this game offers and turning them into problems.

That’s why I rarely venture into public and stick to solo or playing with my partner, because unlike players like me, I can’t throw a rock without hitting players like you in public

Here’s the kicker; I’m not going to try and make your gameplay worse. I know what I’m built for and why I’m built for it, and it aint to have zero gameplay and no room for a teammate, but if the matchmaking drops me into your squad, I’ll try and play nice even though I’m going to drop out after mission complete because clearly you’re choosing your build and content combination with intent to basically solo the multiplayer portion, and all anyone is to you is an extra cracked relic which may or may not even be the relic you’re looking for.

Don’t try and spin this, you’re not even interested in a teammate and what you do reflects that

Edited January 23 by Merkranire

[LRonHoover]

It's not even nuke builds, it's just powercreep in general. Spoiler mode can wipe out rooms by itself. Spectres/on call can do serious heavy lifting with some of the weapons we can give them. If somebody with a coherent build wants to run ahead of you and vaporize everything, it's probably going to happen.

 

Some modes are just a faceroll now due to our insane power, we'd need like a gold path or something like that where the mobs start at a much higher level for exterminate to be a mode where everybody in group gets to actually use their kit to its fullest.

 

 

In a perfect world it would be cool if everybody was considerate and didn't actively try to stomp on other people's enjoyment, but enjoying nuking stuff is valid too. I'm sure that most people who do it aren't trying to get anything over on anybody else.

 

 

[Berzerkules]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

I never agreed to join your squad, but there’s no filter to stop joining players like you aside from going out of my way to find players who aren’t taking the components this game offers and turning them into problems.

That’s why I rarely venture into public and stick to solo or playing with my partner, because unlike players like me, I can’t throw a rock without hitting players like you in public

Here’s the kicker; I’m not going to try and make your gameplay worse. I know what I’m built for and why I’m built for it, and it aint to have zero gameplay and no room for a teammate, but if the matchmaking drops me into your squad, I’ll try and play nice even though I’m going to drop out after mission complete because clearly you’re choosing your build and content combination with intent to basically solo the multiplayer portion, and all anyone is to you is an extra cracked relic which may or may not even be the relic you’re looking for.

Don’t try and spin this, you’re not even interested in a teammate and what you do reflects that

By entering any pub mission you have agreed to take whatever you get. We all make this decision when we choose public/invite only/friends only/solo. I choose solo 95% of the time because no matter what anyone says WF is not a co-op multiplayer game. In the rare chance i do join pubs I'm not going to try and spin a story about being the victim of some kill stealing nuke. That's asinine, we all know that DE does not create content with the intent or necessity to require an organized co-op group. They make content that anyone can solo. 

 

[Merkranire]

1 minute ago, Berzerkules said:

By entering any pub mission you have agreed to take whatever you get. We all make this decision when we choose public/invite only/friends only/solo. I choose solo 95% of the time because no matter what anyone says WF is not a co-op multiplayer game. In the rare chance i do join pubs I'm not going to try and spin a story about being the victim of some kill stealing nuke. That's asinine, we all know that DE does not create content with the intent or necessity to require an organized co-op group. They make content that anyone can solo. 

 

And yet as someone who actively plays with another human being because it’s more fun when we play together instead of against each other, the game works quite well and can be surprisingly robust and we each get something out of it, something more than just whatever we’d get out of solo not only in terms of rewards, but also gameplay and build opportunity and any shared memories. An extra relic cracked and a fight alongside someone else is much better than an extra relic crack and boring-ass gameplay because the game practically doesn’t exist for the others in the squad or the one doing all the nuking.

I know full well that going public in a game filled with inconsiderate grindheads is tantamount to asking that my gameplay not exist, though I poke in every so often to see whether I’ll match up with someone like OP instead of someone like you. I would kill for a filter or something so that we never match, and you and your buddies can fight it out amongst yourselves to try and secure something to do while you grind away at a second job

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, LRonHoover said:

It's not even nuke builds, it's just powercreep in general. Spoiler mode can wipe out rooms by itself. Spectres/on call can do serious heavy lifting with some of the weapons we can give them. If somebody with a coherent build wants to run ahead of you and vaporize everything, it's probably going to happen.

 

Some modes are just a faceroll now due to our insane power, we'd need like a gold path or something like that where the mobs start at a much higher level for exterminate to be a mode where everybody in group gets to actually use their kit to its fullest.

 

 

In a perfect world it would be cool if everybody was considerate and didn't actively try to stomp on other people's enjoyment, but enjoying nuking stuff is valid too. I'm sure that most people who do it aren't trying to get anything over on anybody else.

 

 

tungsten path: level cap enemies (you will still get a 5k credit cache)