Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[LeonserGT]

Game Designer's suggestion: simplify it to be binary - its either full dmg boost or defense. Ensure that it works ok with existing tiles, such as all light sources count, etc. Then, make the VERY clear visualization on its current mode by some visual effect on a frame - some cloak-like effect covering the frame for defense mode and some bright light enveloping the weapons for dmg boost mode, with a subtle visual and sound effect for when they're changing (select this one carefully to avoid annoying earrape when jumping around the map often, actually might worth to implement a delay for this change, so it won't proc million times from one jump). 

This is basically how it was originally intended to be, just streamlined.

[Garorara]

Leave it as it is, it is fine imo or add an option to hold key to lock the effect

DO NOT NERF IT for the helminth, if anything we need buffs for the 90% weak frames and useless weapons!

Edited February 6 by Garorara

[Aruquae]

It would be perfect with a toggle tap/hold feature

Nerf the helminth option for more “balance” less nerf on the actual frame

[MuonNeutrino]

My two cents: the erratic and unreliable nature of eclipse strongly discourages me from using it right now, so I would vote for this being the direction of change. (It may be the 2nd most popular helminth, but how much of that comes from its place in eidolon hunts where it is bugged to always work fully?) I would be completely fine with its helminth stats being somewhat nerfed if I could actually choose which buff I get and reliably get a consistent amount of performance from it. 

I would suggest making two changes: first, use hold and tap casting to choose which version of the buff you get and make the buff be constant rather than dependent on the never-reliably-predictable light levels, and second make mirage's other abilities interact with it to preserve the light-and-dark thematics of the ability.

For the first, giving it hold and tap functionality and a constant base boost would make it *so* much more usable of an ability, and this also lets you more easily adjust the overall level of power to give a desired balance without having to worry about the ability wildly swinging in effectiveness as the player moves around. (Particularly useful for being able to balance the helminth version.)

For the second, giving it thematic interactions with mirage's other abilities would not only help preserve some of the flavor of the ability that would be lost by simplifying it, but also allows the helminth version to be kept at a more baseline level of performance since these effects naturally would not transfer to it.

For example, imagine the following setup. This is most definitely *only* a hypothetical example, and I'm sure one could come up with more interesting interactions if one spent longer at it, this is just a basic sketch that I came up with in 10 minutes to illustrate the basic idea.

Eclipse itself:
- Duration unchanged, hold/tap to cast light/dark versions. Can be recast while active to refresh duration and/or swap to other version. Light version has base 100% damage boost, dark version has base 40% DR, both affected by strength as current. For mirage, damage is uncapped and DR caps at 95% as current. For helminth version, damage boost is reduced to 75% and capped at 150%, and DR is capped at 75%.
- While eclipse is active, casting prism significantly increases the base damage boost for some duration (or each enemy hit by the lasers increases it, or something).
- While eclipse is active, clones from hall of mirrors modestly increase (but stacking) the damage reduction for a short duration for every hit they score on an enemy.
- While eclipse is active, for each enemy hit by sleight of hand's detonation you gain some damage or DR, or the duration increases by a few seconds, or something.

Other abilities:
- While eclipse is active, hits from hall of mirrors' clones debuff targets - slowing them if dark eclipse is active, or inflicting damage vulnerability if light eclipse is active.
- The most recent cast of eclipse determines the debuff inflicted by sleight of hand's detonation - blind for dark eclipse, or some status procs or something for light - instead of it being dependent on environmental light.
- Prism gains a damage bonus if light eclipse is active (replacing the current environmental light bonus), but blinds for a longer duration (or inflicts an additional debuff, or something) if dark eclipse is active.

These are only examples of some possible effects, and all of the numbers should be considered to be placeholder - don't get caught up on the details, this is essentially just to present the basic idea. The ability becomes much more controllable and consistent, with any variation being dependent on things the user can much more easily control and anticipate. The helminth version is kept from being too powerful. And mirage's version gets some thematic interactions that can help give her some more interesting tools.

[ArmoredDragoness]

Make it a toggle yes nerf it more absolutely not just increase the cost and give it a base drain of 30energy a second to force a more focuses efficiency setup 

Edited February 5 by ArmoredDragoness

[Captain_Dark21]

10 minutes ago, ArmoredDragoness said:

Make it a toggle yes nerf it more absolutely not just increase the cost and give it a base drain of 30energy a second to force a more focuses efficiency setup 

Just gonna kill everybodies build huh 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[GalacticWaffles]

Years ago i had a similar idea where prism would make light and dark spots for eclipse

[moondog548]

Toggle is boring!!!

Have it shoot out flares thta scatter at random and swiftly settle. Then have the light from those flares be the only thing that effects the buff.

Edited February 7 by moondog548

[Faerye]

Toggle would be the best choice here

[(XBOX)VampishMantis]

I recommend bring more pet game and different rather have kurbrow and cat and in the game and example like bird raven and owl  and frog or bunny or deer and other pet too and good day u

[Captain_Dark21]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)VampishMantis said:

I recommend bring more pet game and different rather have kurbrow and cat and in the game and example like bird raven and owl  and frog or bunny or deer and other pet too and good day u

Wrong thread lol this is the eclipse thread.

[SightJ]

I see the best way for this is to make it work like how it works for invisible frames if it was cast in the light >> FULL damage buff, if it was in the dark >> FULL damage reduction, maybe lower the numbers a bit or a lot depending on how you see fit, as it now is more reliable and easier to benefit off while still having a gimmick to not making it just a boring tap or hold or a toggle. OR be slightly nerfed(let's say 25%change in the damage or 5% in the DR) and it changes while it is active but has it be either light or dark, not percentage based on how light it is(as making it scale on how light it is proved to be hard implementation and maybe not even needed as the idea is interacting with light and dark and that is enough), and now all that is to fix is to make the areas in the sanctum anatomica to just be either light or dark

Edited February 7 by SightJ

[ShogunGunshow]

On 2024-02-05 at 1:41 AM, Garorara said:

Leave it as it is, it is fine imo or add an option to hold key to lock the effect

DO NOT NERF IT for the helminth, if anything we need buffs for the 90% weak frames and useless weapons!

lol

[Famecans]

Firstly, I would like to inform you that I am not Mirage main and the following suggestions will make Mirage focused on stationary mechanics.

Thematic:

*Science says that the solar eclipse is a space event involving at least three celestial bodies (earth, moon and sun), so this can serve as a theme to make Mirage interact with two enemies marked as if they were the moon and the sun.

 

 Operation or Rules:

*Mirage can lock two enemies as celestial bodies, one of which is luminous (sun) and the other dark (moon).

*Mirage receives damage reduction when approaching the dark celestial body and receives increased damage when approaching the light celestial body.

*The ability can be triggered on two targets 12m away.

*Targets affected by the skill mark an area with a radius of 12m, the same range as the skill.

*The celestial bodies are indestructible.

*Celestial bodies have an unlimited duration similar to Wisp's Mote.

*Celestial bodies must be classified by the match as enemy dead, this avoids horde rotation delays.

*The skill is fast and can be triggered on the move.

*Triggering the same target's ability will kill it instantly.

*5 second cooldown to prevent kill spam. 

*Holding down the skill button toggles the first cast between light and dark.

 

Augments rework:

*[Total Eclipse]: Eclipse affects allies and [Hall of Mirrors].

*[Hall of Malevolence]: Enemies killed within [Elipse] zones added 2 seconds to active skills [Hall of Mirrors] and [Prism].

*[Prism Guard]: [Prism] can be placed fixedly on celestial bodies.

[Garorara]

8 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

lol

LOL Lmao haaaahahahahah hehehhehee hoohohohoooo

[Belmenel]

When is the issue of people with unused switch accounts being unable account merge going to be addressed?

Also, so I'm not entirely off topic, either a hold toggle, or a timed rotation between them every x seconds. Maybe a steady shift from dark>light>dark over the duration, to emulate a day night cycle.

Edited February 8 by Belmenel
topical

[Nesmila]

tap/hold please

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

I've been reading through the thread for the last several days in between breaks at work, and while I do think a tap / hold for Mirage's Eclipse is probably the simplest approach, I do want to mention some things I haven't seen anywhere in the thread yet; 

On 2024-01-26 at 9:15 AM, [DE]Juice said:

• We can redesign the ability, so it works on the same general theme but functionally is different. For example, it could spawn beams of light nearby - standing in them provides the light boost, while standing out of them provides the shadow boost.
• Suggestions! We are open to unique suggestions from Tenno on this as well!

I'm glad that the thread for feedback is here overall, since I usually haven't seen something like this in a long time on the forums! Maybe the forums can be utilized more in the future if another fix / change choice, etc. comes along for something important like this :)

 

Perhaps it goes without saying, but hypothetically in case there are any existing alternate ideas for Eclipse in the event it'll be reworked, it may be a good idea to keep those other ideas for future Frames and even the Helminth itself. Depending on what those abilities are, they could become rather interesting options for the Helminth if someone wanted to just replace Eclipse on their Mirage themselves; Effectively choosing their own Eclipse, so to speak.

• Aside from Eclipse though, new abilities or ability augments from Son would be good too, in the future. I would've quoted a specific section of my old post, but it was from a couple of years ago so the thread was closed.
  • (The hypothetical augments are near the bottom of that post: Embolden, Infested Vigor, Hideous Acceptance, and Master's Protection; There's plenty of potential with augments for non-Frame abilities :) )

 

For Eclipse's animation, I think it would be useful if it could be an upper-body cast, so that you can still run around while activating it. In order to keep moving around myself, I usually bullet jump up a ways forward and cast her abilities mid-air nearly every time. It's a bit cumbersome, but I've adjusted to it. But the main thing I can suggest for Eclipse is more interactivity with her other abilities in some way, and a UI for her to see which version of eclipse would be available at a given moment, similar to other Frames with UI elements (Saryn, Nidus, etc.). Even if it wouldn't show the percentage, that and altering her abilities in some way would be really neat.

Thanks for hearing me out on it :)

 

On 2024-01-29 at 7:20 PM, TwonkeyKong said:

Big fan of the just making it a Tap/Hold and adjust the balance for Helminth. 

Alternatively a tap to activate the ability, hold to switch modes. Starting mode could be determined by Energy Color (warm/cold or bright/dark). And as a balancing option for Helminth remove the hold to switch mode. That way people who subsume it would have to commit to one type of buff (based on their energy color).

Also an Icon that shows you what buff you have would be nice addition for ppl with visual impairments / color blindness.

Something along those lines:

This looks great! I'd love to see how it could work with different energy color combinations :)

 

That's all I can think of for now, but hopefully after Eclipse is figured out, more can be done with the Helminth in the future too :)

[DarkSaint_Exile]

On 2024-01-29 at 10:20 PM, TwonkeyKong said:

Big fan of the just making it a Tap/Hold and adjust the balance for Helminth. 

Alternatively a tap to activate the ability, hold to switch modes. Starting mode could be determined by Energy Color (warm/cold or bright/dark). And as a balancing option for Helminth remove the hold to switch mode. That way people who subsume it would have to commit to one type of buff (based on their energy color).

Also an Icon that shows you what buff you have would be nice addition for ppl with visual impairments / color blindness.

Something along those lines:

Please give Eclipse a toggle. Also please consider adding an Icon that shows us which buff we have active. This will be helpful for those of us that have visual impairments.

Edited February 8 by DarkSaint_Exile

[JustHari]

Its already nerfed for helminth, than what Mirage herself use. 200% vs 150%

make it work with the light, fix the game mechanics and how it was working before.

even if its a toggle ability it will stay the same being top 2 most used helminth skill, and not gonna break anything new, or totally remove it from helminth.

Pointing at it being most used and to nerf it even more.. makes no sense.

[BN549]

   Im in the tap/hold team, I agree that its quite unreliable with its current synergy with the light mechanics. Ive seen some sugestions that I liked the sound of, to be able to lock the buff on ether light or dark after casting, then I saw from the main page of the thread that theres also the problem where you only get one of the buffs on specifics maps so it might not be able to work.

   If we keep the curent original mechanic I would like to suggest a tweak to the change between the buffs to not be so drastic, my thought was that the change between the buffs to be more gradient:

• in X% light damage buff would give 100-X% dark reduction buff:
  • 100% light - 0% dark;
  • 80% light - 20% dark;
  • 50% light - 50% dark;
  • 25% light - 75% dark, and so on.

 

   I really like this concept by TwonkeyKong:

On 2024-01-30 at 5:20 AM, TwonkeyKong said:

Big fan of the just making it a Tap/Hold and adjust the balance for Helminth. 

Alternatively a tap to activate the ability, hold to switch modes. Starting mode could be determined by Energy Color (warm/cold or bright/dark). And as a balancing option for Helminth remove the hold to switch mode. That way people who subsume it would have to commit to one type of buff (based on their energy color).

Also an Icon that shows you what buff you have would be nice addition for ppl with visual impairments / color blindness.

Something along those lines:

 

Edited February 9 by BN549

[Austjak]

Tap to cast, hold to toggle. With this better consistency it might need to be diminished in helminth, but that is a small price to pay for consistency.

[Tabvee]

On 2024-02-05 at 2:23 PM, ArmoredDragoness said:

Make it a toggle yes nerf it more absolutely not just increase the cost and give it a base drain of 30energy a second to force a more focuses efficiency setup 

"nerf it more absolutely not" *suggests the biggest nerf in the games history*

30 energy per second is insane, deranged even. 

[Walkampf]

Am 26.1.2024 um 18:15 schrieb [DE]Juice:

We can redesign the ability, so it works on the same general theme but functionally is different. For example, it could spawn beams of light nearby - standing in them provides the light boost, while standing out of them provides the shadow boost.

I like this.

Maybe also tie them to objects in the environment,

like god-rays shining down on Terminals, cameras, Defense Objects,

maybe even rescue-targets.

This might also serve making it easyier to keep your orientation straight.

[Xenas7357]

Toggle would be the easiest/most consistent, but what if other abilities affected it? Make her "Sleight of Hand" absorb light so while standing in range you get guaranteed night mode, and make  "Prism" cast light for guaranteed light mode if you follow it