What is the Anti-Void?

[Zahnrad]

So, I just got the Cavia to their Max Ranking and in the cutscene there was mention of "Anti-Void" which really stuck out to me as potentially the first time this has been mentioned.

I'm ready to accept the idea that "Anti-Void" might just be a metaphor for Consensus Reality, aka everything that's not The Void but if this is hinting towards something greater, I am interested in where this might take us.

 

I forget the exact quote since it took me by surprise but I believe it was something along the lines of "The Void and the Anti-Void"

Which is a grey area of not being sure if this is a literal phenomena or just some kind of metaphor.

EDIT: I looked up the scene on youtube to get the exact quote.

In the context of this scene, it seems to imply that "anti-Void" is in fact something real. Feels like it'd be more of a stretch for this to just be standard reality.

Edited March 6 by Zahnny

[Loza03]

I don't think there is AN anti-Void, but rather it's whatever theoretical Void-curing medicine Loid cooked up in his lab. 

That being said, I've watched a few lore videos which point out there's a series of suspicious 'Rap-Tap-Tap' sounds during this cutscene as well - which suggests that Loid might be wrong, and that the medicine is completely ineffective, and the effect is instead related to Wally deciding the Cavia are more useful or interesting alive, for whatever reason - with the colours as a side-effect.

[Zahnrad]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

is instead related to Wally deciding the Cavia are more useful or interesting alive, for whatever reason - with the colours as a side-effect.

Wally is a Fashionframer confirmed

[SneakyErvin]

I think anti-Void might just be a reference to something that is ment to counter the afflictions/alterations of void exposure, which happens to then also result in side effects. Maybe something to even be used to end Wally eventually.

Plus the use of "anti" instead of "Anti" makes it seem more like some remidy/tool. As we dont say things like anti-Christ about Antichrist. The first simply means someone opposed to Christ, but not the Antichrist himself. So if they ment a place or type of exsistance Antivoid or Anti-Void would have been more correct.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, while it's plausible that Anti-Void could be anything, i think there's an alternate explanation: that Anti-Void is in fact an actual thing, and not only that, but we've actually SEEN it before:

yep, i'm talking about everyone's least favourite Corpus enemy, the Nullfier.

We know they were added for mechanical reasons, with no in-universe explanation for how they worked. What if nully bubbles are just force fields that contain high enough quantities of Anti-Void to cancel out our powers? When the bubble is popped the Anti-Void seeps harmlessly into the atmosphere and of course, it's not visible to the naked eye, because its a colorless vapor. Much of the Corpus' tech is just reverse engineered orokin stuff anyway, so it's plausible they would find the recipe for it and not only gain a tool for use against the Tenno, but also something they can sell for profit.

This also begs the question, "why don't our enemies give EVERYONE Anti-Void and become Tenno-proof?" well the most likely answer is that it's simply too hard and or expensive to produce in sufficient quantities, so it has to be used carefully. While nullifiers are still expendable troops, They are more limited in number, and possibly a higher rank than other Corpus mobs. Essentially you have to be rich or have a lot of sway to get Anti-Void in any sort of amount, but naturally there's some lying around Albrecht's labs, for use in his experiments.

TL:DR: Nullifiers proved Anti-Void existed long ago, we just didnt have the name for it until now.

[ClockworkDirge]

Probably some form of true reality radiation that acts as the counterpart to void energy, since radiation was mentioned in the same cutscene as part of the treatment process. My guess, would be that at some point in this universe’s history the Orokin or their predecessors did something similar to what we’re doing with CERN and discovered a form of radiation that was behind the beginning of the universe.
 

Since their “true reality” is the antithesis of the void (seeing as all imposition of their reality on/in void results in the void trying to purge it, and We see exactly this in Duviri and in Albrecht’s Labs); using that theoretical radiation against void exposure would likely be considered anti-void when using shorthand terms.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

IMO, the Void is essentially a dimension consisting of many different forces manifesting as fundamental principles(Lohk, Netra, Jahu, etc.). Some of these aspects seem to be much more dominant than others and in some cases diametrically opposed to each other, like Order and Chaos, Vome and Fass. The Deimos worms exemplify that well. While other aspects may be associated with this as well, certain colors are closely linked to these aspects. This is most notable with Order and Chaos, blue and red. This color coding also extends beyond, if you look at the color of health vs. energy orbs, or a Tenno's void beam attack changing colors from blue to red and back as when their Shadow overwhelms them in the Rell minicomic. The Veil in Railjack missions has two distinct skyboxes. One red and misty(chaotic), the other bright and focused like a star(ordered). 

Cephylon Cy mentions that the container the finger on the railjack is placed in, the 'Orgone Accumulator' had been resealed, and that as a consequence Negentropy levels have fallen to safe levels. Orgone is an esoteric concept and said to be akin to life force, while negentropy is a term describing how far removed a given state is from normality. This further solidifies the perception that the Void as a whole is a space of pure potential where thoughts and emotions can take shape and are able to influence the process of creation itself, unbound by the rules of the material universe.

In short, the Void may be as close to what we imagine as the quantum realm as possible. An endless see of fluctuation, energy creating and destroying matter within a unfathomably short amounts of time. So, what's the opposite of this ever changing sea of pure creation and potential? What'd be the opposite to the Void?

A completely lack of it. No creation, no destruction, no movement, nothing. In one word: Indifference. That's what I think the Anti Void refers to. 

[Zahnrad]

Dang, all these replies are really insightful in different ways.

3 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

well, while it's plausible that Anti-Void could be anything, i think there's an alternate explanation: that Anti-Void is in fact an actual thing, and not only that, but we've actually SEEN it before:

yep, i'm talking about everyone's least favourite Corpus enemy, the Nullfier.

Though I think this might be the closest to whatever the truth may be.

[quxier]

8 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

While nullifiers are still expendable troops, They are more limited in number, and possibly a higher rank than other Corpus mobs. Essentially you have to be rich or have a lot of sway to get Anti-Void in any sort of amount, but naturally there's some lying around Albrecht's labs, for use in his experiments.

Man gameplay vs "your" lore is so different. Lore wise, it make sense that Nullies being some kind of rare units. However in gameplay they spawn them like grakata spawn bullets. It's not even some "high" level content.

7 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

A completely lack of it. No creation, no destruction, no movement, nothing. In one word: Indifference. That's what I think the Anti Void refers to. 

Then I wonder why "Wallies" are named "the Indifference". At first Wally can create some "weird" stuff. On other hand they lack (some) emotions.

8 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

 

This also begs the question, "why don't our enemies give EVERYONE Anti-Void and become Tenno-proof?" well the most likely answer is that it's simply too hard and or expensive to produce in sufficient quantities, so it has to be used carefully. While nullifiers are still expendable troops, They are more limited in number, and possibly a higher rank than other Corpus mobs. Essentially you have to be rich or have a lot of sway to get Anti-Void in any sort of amount, but naturally there's some lying around Albrecht's labs, for use in his experiments.

If it's similar to antimatter then it's VEEEERY costly

Quote

Scientists claim that antimatter is the costliest material to make.^[81] In 2006, Gerald Smith estimated $250 million could produce 10 milligrams of positrons^[82] (equivalent to $25 billion per gram)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

22 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I don't think there is AN anti-Void, but rather it's whatever theoretical Void-curing medicine Loid cooked up in his lab. 

That being said, I've watched a few lore videos which point out there's a series of suspicious 'Rap-Tap-Tap' sounds during this cutscene as well - which suggests that Loid might be wrong, and that the medicine is completely ineffective, and the effect is instead related to Wally deciding the Cavia are more useful or interesting alive, for whatever reason - with the colours as a side-effect.

I think it's too weak theory. We hear that Wally is able to create wonderful things. Yet what we see? In Whisper quest we see it only controls huge robot (or something). And it's not even effective. All he does is spread his comrades.

[UnstarPrime]

8 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

well, while it's plausible that Anti-Void could be anything, i think there's an alternate explanation: that Anti-Void is in fact an actual thing, and not only that, but we've actually SEEN it before:

yep, i'm talking about everyone's least favourite Corpus enemy, the Nullfier.

I like the way you're thinking, but Nullifiers can't be anti-Void; if they were, being in a bubble would negate the Operator's post-War Within Transference, which is part of their formerly sealed Void powers.

Furthermore — and I welcome someone to correct me if I'm mistaken — I don't believe there's any literature that suggests that Warframe powers come from the Void.  Like, Rhino was able to use Iron Skin — which gets wiped out by Nullifiers — before ever being paired with a Tenno.  So I think Nullifiers are doing something anti-Warframe rather than anti-Void.

[UnstarPrime]

23 hours ago, Zahnny said:

In the context of this scene, it seems to imply that "anti-Void" is in fact something real. Feels like it'd be more of a stretch for this to just be standard reality.

My interpretation is that they're using anti-Void as a way to refer to everything that's not the Void.  I think they chose this term for two reasons:

1. There's not really a clean term for "everything that's not the Void".  "Standard reality" is a hand-wavy term where I as a reader know what you mean, but it doesn't feel like the appropriate term that would be used diegetically, especially from a scientist.
2. They need to use a term rather than describe it because if they describe "everything that's not the Void" in tangible terms then we can intuit that the Void doesn't have those qualities, and Warframe benefits from keeping the Void more mysterious and less defined, because mysteries entice our brains.

[GrayArchon]

30 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

Furthermore — and I welcome someone to correct me if I'm mistaken — I don't believe there's any literature that suggests that Warframe powers come from the Void.  Like, Rhino was able to use Iron Skin — which gets wiped out by Nullifiers — before ever being paired with a Tenno.  So I think Nullifiers are doing something anti-Warframe rather than anti-Void.

No, you're right on this. I think it's a common misconception that warframe powers originate from the Void, but they are components of the warframe. You cite the Rhino Prime Codex entry, and another example is the starting cinematic of The Sacrifice, where Excalibur Umbra – a warframe with no Operator – uses Excalibur's abilities like Slash Dash and Exalted Blade. It's possible that warframe powers are enhanced or 'fuelled' by the Tenno's Void power, but they are ultimately of mundane origin and substance (for the most part). Look at the antimatter containment coils on Nova or the cryo-vents on Frost. The warframes are built with their powers in mind (which is also why others such as Sargas Ruk or Alad V can obtain useful technology from dissected warframes).

Exactly how the Nullifiers function is unknown (though they are canon in lore; Cephalon Cordylon mentions them), but they don't seem to be anti-Void.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

9 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

well, while it's plausible that Anti-Void could be anything, i think there's an alternate explanation: that Anti-Void is in fact an actual thing, and not only that, but we've actually SEEN it before:

yep, i'm talking about everyone's least favourite Corpus enemy, the Nullfier.

I like the way you're thinking, but Nullifiers can't be anti-Void; if they were, being in a bubble would negate the Operator's post-War Within Transference, which is part of their formerly sealed Void powers.

I'm probably missing something (it was old quest). You cannot void dash, do "void mode" and probably other abilities within Nully bubble. Tenno just moving shouldn't be a problem. I think they are some sort of non-void copies.

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

Furthermore — and I welcome someone to correct me if I'm mistaken — I don't believe there's any literature that suggests that Warframe powers come from the Void.  Like, Rhino was able to use Iron Skin — which gets wiped out by Nullifiers — before ever being paired with a Tenno.  So I think Nullifiers are doing something anti-Warframe rather than anti-Void.

Before you are able to go operator mode you are within that one frame.

39 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

 another example is the starting cinematic of The Sacrifice, where Excalibur Umbra – a warframe with no Operator – uses Excalibur's abilities like Slash Dash and Exalted Blade.

I wonder how do those abilities compare to Tenno's version

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

I think it's too weak theory. We hear that Wally is able to create wonderful things. Yet what we see? In Whisper quest we see it only controls huge robot (or something). And it's not even effective. All he does is spread his comrades.

I think it could go either way. You make a good point, but he's done resurrection type stuff before (resurrecting every dead person on the Zariman, albeit in the void), and he's presumably more powerful than he was the last time. 

[Zahnrad]

4 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

Furthermore — and I welcome someone to correct me if I'm mistaken — I don't believe there's any literature that suggests that Warframe powers come from the Void.  Like, Rhino was able to use Iron Skin — which gets wiped out by Nullifiers — before ever being paired with a Tenno.  So I think Nullifiers are doing something anti-Warframe rather than anti-Void.

3 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

and another example is the starting cinematic of The Sacrifice, where Excalibur Umbra – a warframe with no Operator – uses Excalibur's abilities like Slash Dash and Exalted Blade. It's possible that warframe powers are enhanced or 'fuelled' by the Tenno's Void power

I hate having to copy and paste a large chunk of text but I feel like for the full context it's better this way.

"The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first."

-Excalibur Prime Codex Entry

 

I admit, because this comes from Excalibur Prime (that most people don't have) this lore is pretty obscure, but it's some of the oldest lore in the entire game. Being with the game for so long (late 2014) I'm familiar with it, but I imagine others aren't. When I started playing for example, the only reference to "Sentients" was this one piece of text, now we've fought an entire several hour questline against them.

I bring it up because with it being so old, I consider it something "gospel" at least unless new lore retcons it.

My belief is that the Tenno are the ones channeling power from the Void (that we now know is a contract with Wally)

When Operators use Void powers, I've always imagined this as being a "raw" form of Void energy, it's wild and uncontained, capable of disfiguring those when used incorrectly (Margulis)

The Warframes, being a "Conduit" for their Void power, I imagine that the Warframes work in a manner similar to refracting Light through a Prism to create a Rainbow.

This Void energy has huge potential, but is just raw power when unrefined. The Warframes act as this "prism" capable of turning that void energy into something more tangible, such as Ice with Frost, or Fire for Ember.

[quxier]

8 hours ago, Loza03 said:

10 hours ago, quxier said:

I think it's too weak theory. We hear that Wally is able to create wonderful things. Yet what we see? In Whisper quest we see it only controls huge robot (or something). And it's not even effective. All he does is spread his comrades.

I think it could go either way. You make a good point, but he's done resurrection type stuff before (resurrecting every dead person on the Zariman, albeit in the void),

Did he restructured them or just saved them? I think I've missed that detail.

Still, if it's "saving" it's powerful but not "very" powerful, imho.

8 hours ago, Loza03 said:

he's presumably more powerful than he was the last time. 

Yeah, but we don't see it. I mean, sure it's powerup from simple shadow (showing to tenno & co) to sending minions. However it's still... weak. You know what corpus does? Send minion as well.

Of course it might be Wally messing with people. That would make sense. However otherwise it's just weak.

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, Zahnny said:

This Void energy has huge potential, but is just raw power when unrefined. The Warframes act as this "prism" capable of turning that void energy into something more tangible, such as Ice with Frost, or Fire for Ember.

Yes, this. And what we can see in the game there is no need for a tenno. Kullervo is an example of that, since prior to us he has had no operator connection. Also when looking at Kullervo and then considering Xaku and Revenant, it seems like the void is very much part of the frames. We can see it inside Kullervo and Revenant in their various wounds, we can see it naturally in Rev Prime and we can see it pumping like blood through veins in Xaku.

And the actual void energy is likely also what binds the powers together for a frame, while the armaments on each specific frame is to help the void take shape into something specifc, from ice and fire to glass walls and skin covered in armor or just pure raw void. Which might also be why nullification and scrambing works to shut down powers, since it dissipates the void, so there is nothing that holds the construct together.

Then the sentients have taken nullification one step further kinda, since it seperates the connection between Frame and Void. But it doesnt seem to do anything with the Void specifically, since the Tenno still functions. Which is how some other tech also works, some of which is tied to Wally, like the Void disruption cages of his Angels.

[GrayArchon]

11 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I admit, because this comes from Excalibur Prime (that most people don't have) this lore is pretty obscure, but it's some of the oldest lore in the entire game.

This also shows up in the Excalibur Codex entry, no Prime required. Unfortunately a lot of older lore has been sort of "soft-retconned", with certain details contradicting later lore even if the overall concept remains true (the Ember Codex entry is a prime example of this).

Regarding the Excalibur Codex, we know now that warframes were developed prior to the discovery of the Tenno, and they had powers. The Rhino Prime Codex entry, Ballas' explanations during The Sacrifice, and even Kullervo's lore all discuss these "proto-frames". Based on these sources (the relevant parts of which have already been cited by @UnstarPrime and myself), it's clear that warframe powers don't originate with the Tenno, because they're present even when the Tenno aren't. As I said, it's possible (even likely) that the Tenno is able to focus their Void energy into the warframe powers, enhancing or intensifying them, but we do know that the Tenno aren't the ultimate source of the powers.

Edited March 7 by GrayArchon

[UnstarPrime]

14 hours ago, quxier said:

I'm probably missing something (it was old quest). You cannot void dash, do "void mode" and probably other abilities within Nully bubble. Tenno just moving shouldn't be a problem. I think they are some sort of non-void copies.

I think there might be a misunderstanding here.  I'm saying that if Nullifier bubbles were anti-Void, when your Warframe entered the bubble your Transference would end, because Transference is a Void power.  And without Transference, you would no longer be "inhabiting" the Warframe or able to control it.  Since that doesn't happen, we must logically conclude that Nullifier bubbles aren't anti-Void, but are instead anti-something-else.

That "something else" may include some things that are Void-related (in the same way that an anti-Fire bubble would negate Ember's powers while still not being "anti-Void"), but if we want to be accurate we can't label it as anti-Void if it doesn't actually apply to all Void powers and manifestations.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

15 hours ago, quxier said:

I'm probably missing something (it was old quest). You cannot void dash, do "void mode" and probably other abilities within Nully bubble. Tenno just moving shouldn't be a problem. I think they are some sort of non-void copies.

I think there might be a misunderstanding here.  I'm saying that if Nullifier bubbles were anti-Void, when your Warframe entered the bubble your Transference would end, because Transference is a Void power.  And without Transference, you would no longer be "inhabiting" the Warframe or able to control it.  Since that doesn't happen, we must logically conclude that Nullifier bubbles aren't anti-Void, but are instead anti-something-else.

There are at least few solutions that allows void-kids functions:

- Void bubble is not strong enough. So it deactivate 'void powers' that Tenno have to maintain (not in game sense). Tenno may just have more dense energy so Nully won't work on them. You can see that we can walk but we can void dash.

- Void bubble may be not complex enough to annihilate our powers. In real life antimatter is not single particle but group of them (sorry for non-science way of explaining, I'm not into chemistry). When 2 particles, 1 being "normal" matter and 2nd one being antimatter, they annihilate each other on contact. So for example hydrogen and antihydrogen. However antioxygen and hydrogen wouldn't annihilate each other. That can be the case with nully's bubble. It only 'anihilate' group of void particles not all.

- When you are standing as Operator, you are in frame/orowyrm and probably few other cases you are no longer "void entity". You are materialized in phisical form. That make sense as you can move from/to nully's bubble but you cannot use your powers (go into void).

 

And of course we have to take into account lore vs gameplay. Someone mentioned that Nully being rare units. It make sense in Lore as "nully bubble" might be hard to do (or just expensive). However in game we can see even 3 nullies (even some eximus) within 1 room - no need for some "hardcore" modes.

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Its time for a pop quiz children! What is the Anti Void?

A. An antagonistic character in a meta themed Crisis story by Grant Morrison. 

B. The Sentry. 

C. The Wall in the Man. The Anti Man in the Wall. 

D. Don't go asking for answers to questions you don't want answered Kiddo! (if you select this answer you get to hear ominous background laughter).