i feel like dante is too good ?

[Dunkelheit]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Waeleto:

So does frost/styanax/revenant/hildryn/wisp

If you don't understand the differences between your frames and Dante, it is ok. Hey, we all started playing this game at  a point. If you really wish to get into endgame, play circuit till lvl 9999. Then you clearly see what some frames can do what others cannot.

And btw.... one thing being broken does not justify another thing being broken. if you were right, more frames need to be nerfed and not that Dante is good as he is now.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Waeleto:

It's really disappointing that the moment we get something fun DE decides to listen to the "PLEASE NERF" crowd, i guess every new warframe we get has to either get a hotfix buff/bandaid augment/remain a B tier warframe.

Dante is what every new warframe and rework should be but the fun police won't allow it.

Forget logic or common sense here.
They look at the stats and ruin all the popular things like weapons, warframes etc.
and where are all these Dante players???? I mostly only play SP content like dailies or rarely relics and netracells. and that every day. I only saw Dante maybe twice...

I installed 2 umbra formas on my Dante. just wanted to check his performance. and I don't play it now because I have 9 different warframe builds that don't go down at all in 2-3 hours of SP surv and clean up everything solo in full group very quickly.

 

[Dunkelheit]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb MouthfulOJoules:

What follows is a small collection of somewhat disjointed thoughts on the topic.

If we follow along that logic, wouldn't it mean that more nerfs are required for khora, mesa, the new nezha, vauban, saryn, nova, limbo (yes, really), octavia etc.? With the right setup and experience you can "hog kills" in many ways and as many frames, while many old frames are relegated to the shelf to collect dust as MR fodder, because of the Nuke+DPS+overguard gameplay focus direction that warframe seems to be moving towards.

Ok, here we go again:

Khora - yes, needs to be nerfed... already has been, but still could need one. If you want to argue pro Khora: She needs a lot of setup to get her to OP status....
Mesa - does not proc slash, so she is not infintely scalable, everything is killed ultrafast from any frame till level 100... use Mesa in lvl 200 and lets us see how she clears a room without anyone being able to get a kill
new Nezha - needs a nerf and will get one, hopefully
vauban - ??? I dont play him much, but how can he clear a room before anyone is able to get in a kill?
Saryn - hogs a lot of damage, but she kills slowly so no, don't use her name when talking about Dante, please
Nova - ???? I don't know man, how can she clear a room so that noone gets a kill
limbo - ???????????????????? How can he clear a room so that noone gets a kill?
Octavia - ??????? did you lose track about what we are talking about here? As a reminder: Octavia can clear a room before anyone gets a kill?????
 

Maybe some of those frames have a very, very niche setup where they can clear a room in Steel Path without anyone being able to grab a kill, but can they do it with 2 forma right out of the box by pressing 334?

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Venus-Venera:

Forget logic or common sense here.
They look at the stats and ruin all the popular things like weapons, warframes etc.
and where are all these Dante players???? I mostly only play SP content like dailies or rarely relics and netracells. and that every day. I only saw Dante maybe twice...

I installed 2 umbra formas on my Dante. just wanted to check his performance. and I don't play it now because I have 9 different warframe builds that don't go down at all in 2-3 hours of SP surv and clean up everything solo in full group very quickly.

 

Why would you install two umbra formas on Dante? Shows right of the bat that you have no clue about him at this moment.

And you don't see him that often, because he got released not too long ago and he needs basically 4 days to build and farm if you are hyper active and laser focused on getting him.

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, Dunkelheit said:

Ok, here we go again:

Khora - yes, needs to be nerfed... already has been, but still could need one. If you want to argue pro Khora: She needs a lot of setup to get her to OP status....
Mesa - does not proc slash, so she is not infintely scalable, everything is killed ultrafast from any frame till level 100... use Mesa in lvl 200 and lets us see how she clears a room without anyone being able to get a kill
new Nezha - needs a nerf and will get one, hopefully
vauban - ??? I dont play him much, but how can he clear a room before anyone is able to get in a kill?
Saryn - hogs a lot of damage, but she kills slowly so no, don't use her name when talking about Dante, please
Nova - ???? I don't know man, how can she clear a room so that noone gets a kill
limbo - ???????????????????? How can he clear a room so that noone gets a kill?
Octavia - ??????? did you lose track about what we are talking about here? As a reminder: Octavia can clear a room before anyone gets a kill?????
 

Maybe some of those frames have a very, very niche setup where they can clear a room in Steel Path without anyone being able to grab a kill, but can they do it with 2 forma right out of the box by pressing 334?

People asking for nerfs in WARFRAME will never fail to make me laugh, you guys want the game to die SO BADLY

[Aruquae]

17 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

where are all these Dante players????

This makes little sense to me too

Sure there’s a large surplus of Dante players, but he’s the new frame of course he’s going to be popular. Now that I think of it, five days is enough time for him to be built without rushing it with platinum, and I’m sure many others just rushed the 50p or bought outright (guilty, discount payed off). 

17 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

I only saw Dante maybe twice...

They live in Hydron, it’s the library 

Edited April 3 by Aruquae
“I’m,” not Kim… damn you spell check

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Week One Dante 'needs' a nerf. Yet Wisp, Revenant, Harrow, Saryn, Octavia....

'Measured and thoughtful-'
Week One knee jerk reaction. Also Styanax says hi. I've seen your 'measured and rational' and am calling you a bald faced liar in front of everyone (by you i mean a collective 'you' DE not any one person.)

The problem is the same one I have encountered before. Over fifteen years ago in a text based MUSH by the name of Multiverse Crisis. 

It was, as these thigns go, a decent enough place. Mechanically it was actually quite well designed; the C-Sys system allowed for easy integration with scene posting. The stat system meant people had a way to be flexible in combat and there was room enough for 'engineered' rolls so that people could use the system but ensure their attack missed, or the attack being received hit all for the sake of narrative centric storytelling.  Plus it lead to absurde situations such as someone fro ma light happy fluffy setting on their last legs in the middle of a winter wasteland with a black robed necromancer pointing a skeletal finger at them with a shroud of eldritch screaming dead 'DO YE FEAR DEATH' and the pipsqueak pulling a W out (honestly that was one of my favorite scenes, with the unconscious snowboarding by said pipsqueak being the cherry on top.)

 

Point is even with all the fun that place had it had ... Problems. Staff baed nepotism, cliques, generating a hostile 'in group vs everyone else' and the like are beyond scope but noted because those were problems (I say all this as someone who was made to leave for reasons I find just and fair as a matter of disclosure.)

The core problem with the place is the problem Warframe has: Either yo ubuild towards the meta or you aren't considered worth anyone's time. Either you are top tier or you are trash. Either you are a 36+ point build or yo uare Godstomped into oblivion because everyone wants the biggest gun.

More t othe point: Warframe has allowed itself to get into a position where you either HAVE to do Big D Damage or you are considered useless, because Death is the best CC and if nobody is shooting at you then there is no need for healing. 

Then you get int othe overguard situation. On the face of it 'HAHAA I am immortal!' but that number is either, in content where overguard is useful, either a 1 or a 0. Overguard as of right now does not get the same 'help' health does from armor. So the number looks HYUUUUUUGE but may as well be on/off. 

There are all manner of frames that are similar levels of 'dominating the field' but there aren't instant immediate calls to drag them down. There isn't this 'oh no within the first week we have decided to turn this thing into trash.' 

And without a deep clean overhaul that makes other playstyles worht using. you are going to be stuck with this all or nothing 'it either map wipes or it is garbage' mindset. 

[Dunkelheit]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Kronxito:

Tell that to Bungie. They are about to crash deep into the ground because people got tired of their s*.

They are bringing back the stuff players enjoyed the most in a desperate attempt to get some players back. And they will fail again.

Yeah, but show me all those "vote with a wallet"- people that actually quit the game. You don't quit games because you are upset, you stop playing them, because you no longer care. And if you no longer care, you don't create "vote with your wallet" postings any more.

Yes, this is a generalization, so please don't use some minority cases to "prove me wrong".

[Dunkelheit]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Kaiga:

With this logic, Saryn, Equinox, Gara, Mirage, Mesa, and Volt should have been nerfed out of existence long ago, because they all do exactly what you described when built correctly.
 

Yes? Let us make a bet... you play Equinox/Saryn/Mirage/Mesa and Volt (? yeah, whatever) in Steel Path conjunction survival and let us see how much %age of kills I get. Or are talking about Earth lvl 5 survival? Because then you are right of course. But so is any other frame.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Ace-Bounty-Hunter:

Except these "toys" required to be either bought with platinum or dedicated a large time investment to farm and polarize. So it's understandable that people will get pissed off when DE nerfs them.

Yeah, people who buy new non-prime frames with platinum, there might be a full dozen. Oh and yeah, Dante is so hard to farm, couple of runs in Steel Path. It is rare that Warframes are as farmable as Dante.

Last but not least... Dante won't be unusable. I farmed him as well and I have no problems with him being nerfed.

[Aruquae]

4 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Yes? Let us make a bet... you play Equinox/Saryn/Mirage/Mesa and Volt (? yeah, whatever) in Steel Path conjunction survival and let us see how much %age of kills I get. Or are talking about Earth lvl 5 survival? Because then you are right of course. But so is any other frame.

You’re right, and Dante is just like them in terms of damage output. Of course it’s not as good as Equinox or Mesa, but still really good damage. 

[Dunkelheit]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Waeleto:

People asking for nerfs in WARFRAME will never fail to make me laugh, you guys want the game to die SO BADLY

Is that your counter argument? Really? Already at your wits end?

There have been countless nerfs in countless games. Name me ONE that made a game die. Or even better.... how did Warframe not die already having countless nerfs already?

[ShogunGunshow]

Stuff has gotten nerfed before it even came out based off of reaction to teasers and devstreams talking about how they're supposed to work. 

Honestly, I prefer a DE that's quick to address things than a DE that takes YEARS to address a problem and lets players grow entitled to something totally busted. 

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, Dunkelheit said:

how did Warframe not die already having countless nerfs already?

Because they have never done nerfs on the scale that you and other people here in the forums are asking for, it's crazy how disconnected these forums are from the rest of the playerbase

[Dunkelheit]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Aruquae:

You’re right, and Dante is just like them in terms of damage output. Of course it’s not as good as Equinox or Mesa, but still really good damage. 

Let us make a bet then, you run Equinox against my Dante in Steel Path Conjunction Survival while only using abilities and we will see who has more ability kills at the end of 10 minutes. Or Mesa? Or Mirage? Or Volt? Please don't argue with weapon kills, do me the favor, ok?

[ShogunGunshow]

2 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Because they have never done nerfs on the scale 

rofl lol this is just objectively wrong

[Dunkelheit]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Waeleto:

Because they have never done nerfs on the scale that you and other people here in the forums are asking for, it's crazy how disconnected these forums are from the rest of the playerbase

Yeah? Then tell me about the Dante nerfs... how did they play out? What are they nerfing? By what percentages? Oh, you don't know? MIght be that I am disconnected from "the rest of the playerbase", but you are disconnected from reality. Whining about nerfs that did not even happen yet.

Edit: What scale of nerfs am I asking for? And this is not the first time I asked for nerfs, I did for many other topics as well. OP Bramme being one of those or melee nerfs, which had MASSIVE scale.

Edited April 3 by Dunkelheit

[Gaxxian]

hace 20 horas, (XBOX)Timidobserver dijo:

I've been seeing people starting to leave missions with a Dante in the group. Any of you Dante mains noticing any of that?

This happens to me when they see a Saryn. People start to play with randoms and leaves if the playstyle doesn't match with what they want, i suppose.

I sometimes do that whenever i pick Titania and a Volt casting his 2 like no tomorrow appears. That doesn't mean that i hate the frame, just that the buff is too annoying to deal with when im using Titania.

[Theweedle]

11 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Forum users definition of fun is overpowered sadly. Dante can clear the whole room within seconds with ease and with no way that he can come into harm wthout any defensive mods. Compare that to other frames and you already knew that a nerf was coming. Now imagine that 4 players want to have fun and kill stuff together, but one player is hogging 99% of all the kills. Is that "fun" for all other 3 players?

Should they test a bit more and not release Warframes or weapons in such a blatantly overpowered state? Absolutely

Was this nerf justified? Yes it was.

Dante is quite boring though, always hitting the same buttons and the whole room dies feels like a cheat and loses its charm, like every other cheat, after maximum of 10 minutes.

Yeah and Warframe being "torture" when Dante is nerfed, is absolutely no exaggeration and I am not being ironic nor sarcastic.

Why is nuking rooms now suddenly an issue? Do you not realize gauss can nuke SP rooms just as well, if not faster? The only reason you are noticing this more now is because dantes nuke is a bit easier to use, and a lot of people are trying out the new frame.. its not even the best nuke in the game tbh.

1. it requires line of sight. enemies without any DoTs on them wont get nuked from tragedy.

2. It is extremely energy hungry. You need to slot on several sources of end game efficiency/energy sources to be able to nuke constantly. Most players dont actually have access to all of these things.

3. Without roar, or viral support, it quickly falls off at higher level steel path.

Meanwhile gauss is over here nuking and noone bats an eye. No line of sight required. Just be above redline and thermal sunder heat a few times, cold sunder once... BAM everything in 30meters is dead.

Dont even get me started on the new Nezha augment... Literally just press 4, wrathful advance, and BAM everything is 54 meters dies instantly. Dante cant even hold a candle to that.
 

 

Edited April 3 by Theweedle

[Aruquae]

5 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Let us make a bet then, you run Equinox against my Dante in Steel Path Conjunction Survival while only using abilities and we will see who has more ability kills at the end of 10 minutes. Or Mesa? Or Mirage? Or Volt? Please don't argue with weapon kills, do me the favor, ok?

Pfft, clearly you’ve never performed a scientific experiment 

Two different people trying to find the difference between two frames is hardly the way to go

It would be best if you did both of it yourself (or I did both myself, if I even cared to prove a point), to keep your unique way of playing both. In fact… comparing it to Equinox would be slower just because she needs a fair amount of ramp up before detonating, not to mention it would have to be the same mission node… same enemy type… same level… same amount of time. Even then that wouldn’t show their true performance if we’re considering Saryn. Saryn would prefer to be against grineer, as they can live longer to spread the  procs in order to nuke, Volt would want infested considering they’re squishy without any armor/shield regen. Mesa lacks the AOE most have, but she makes up with it in fast killing rate, still not as fast as an AOE nukor though. (If the enemies are around Mesa, rather than in a cone for los as an example). 

14 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Please don't argue with weapon kills, do me the favor, ok?

If I were to do the bet, agreed. Weapon kills would mean nothing for this. Of course… would his tome be considered a weapon kill? I know Garuda’s talons count as ability kills, but doesn’t show it in the stats. Might have to factor that in  

[JimothyStevens]

6 hours ago, Corvid said:

So... are you going to address my actual point?

Because pointing to the Helminth as something that got nerfed when it is yet another system that contributed to that exponential power increase that I mentioned is, to be quite frank, laughable. Especially since the power reduction, as you yourself said, happened before it was added to the game.

I did address your point. DE has a long history of nerfing things hard, usually on impulse and usually against the wishes of the community.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Aruquae:

Pfft, clearly you’ve never performed a scientific experiment 

Two different people trying to find the difference between two frames is hardly the way to go

It would be best if you did both of it yourself (or I did both myself, if I even cared to prove a point), to keep your unique way of playing both. In fact… comparing it to Equinox would be slower just because she needs a fair amount of ramp up before detonating, not to mention it would have to be the same mission node… same enemy type… same level… same amount of time. Even then that wouldn’t show their true performance if we’re considering Saryn. Saryn would prefer to be against grineer, as they can live longer to spread the  procs in order to nuke, Volt would want infested considering they’re squishy without any armor/shield regen. Mesa lacks the AOE most have, but she makes up with it in fast killing rate, still not as fast as an AOE nukor though. (If the enemies are around Mesa, rather than in a cone for los as an example). 

If I were to do the bet, agreed. Weapon kills would mean nothing for this. Of course… would his tome be considered a weapon kill? I know Garuda’s talons count as ability kills, but doesn’t show it in the stats. Might have to factor that in  

I appreciate your reasonable and well argued posting. At least someone who knows how to debate.

This being said, let us not lose sight of the original problem: Dante is very capable of hogging mass kills after mass kills after mass kills and nothing will stop him. So it is easy for him to make 3 other players in the team useless by getting a very large amount of kills, the more mobs are around, the more apparent the problem becomes. He does not care if something needs to live long or be a certain faction, a problem that many other frames have and he has really no downsides. He uses slash as a tool which scales infinitely, so he does not fall behind in higher levels (did not play him higher than 200 though)

It is my Bramma argument all over again. It is unfun to play Warframe if you don't get any kills.

But even if you lose sight of his nuking ability that is room wide, his 60k overshield-without-any-effort makes the whole team invincible and knock-down immune as well. So he is the best offensive and best defensive frame at once?

I don't mind players having overpowered tools if they are somehow in check. Dante though is not. And people choose to not see this, because they love their tool too much. Take his offense or his defense, I don't mind either way, but both in one frame is way too much.

[ShaloomHD]

Seen this its a good watch and covers good points 

 

[C11H22O1]

9 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

I did address your point. DE has a long history of nerfing things hard, usually on impulse and usually against the wishes of the community.

And helminth is not one of those since it wasn't even released so these "nerfs" weren't nerfs just decisions they made before introducing helminth.

I'd say they don't go hard enough on nerfs, look at the state of the game almost every frame can heal itself/ be invincible, have infinite energy, do millions of damage all alone and when they tone one of those down just a bit people start to cry.

They didn't even kill AoE and Wukong yet got death threats from those just because of the nerf, heck people were complaining about nourish getting a bit of a nerf before the numbers were even revealed.

Y'all call people that want a nerf to something whiners when the biggest ones are the people that want to press a button and destroy everything in the game, might as well play a walking simulator 

[Corvid]

12 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

I did address your point.

No, you did not. You did not in any way address the fact that player power is exponentially stronger today than it was in the past (again, we went from a game where level 30 enemies were tough, to one where some players regularly fight enemies at level 9999), which is the exact opposite of what would happen if your statement about DE "always listening to the nerf crowd" were true.

17 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

DE has a long history of nerfing things hard

It would be more accurate to say that the "no nerfs ever" portion of the community has a long history of going into hysterics over the slightest reduction to their power, claiming that whatever got nerfed is suddenly "useless" even when it literally does the exact same amount of damage as before the nerf. Considering the aforementioned increase in our average power levels, I find it hard to sympathise.

19 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

usually on impulse

Except they don't do it on impulse. They literally have criteria that they have publicly stated for what it takes for a tactic to end up on the chopping block, and in all but the most extreme cases they tend to leave OP items untouched for months, if not years.

15 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

usually against the wishes of the community.

So which is it? Do DE nerf against the wishes of the community, or do they always listen to the "nerf crowd" which, like it or not, is part of that community.

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, C11H22O1 said:

They didn't even kill AoE

I'd disagree, if you mean aoe in general then sure but if you're talking about aoe tenet/kuva weapons those are pretty dead and anything about them atm is copium