35.5.3 changes to Dante

[Ste-rakris_Ve-rakra]

I'll say it, his overguard generation is not an issue, survivability with his overguard isn't really an issue since 50k regenerating overguard that doesn't have 99.84% DR is gonna be melted in a few seconds in high level. The complain that it's too broken is only a real issue anywhere outside of steel path, which you can survive with just more health and healing. At the stage of the game where he's gotten, Rhino was at the start. 

For Overguard frames in general they need to have a gimick to survive, Rhino has infinite scaling, Frost and Styanax have their own way of not getting hit Via CC or just killing. And Kullervo needs to abuse Rolling Guard and have a soft CC/more casting speed just so the .5 seconds of invul from overguard gate is just enough so that he can recast his 2 without dying.

The only reason the entire nerf Dante became a thing is because there's a bunch of people using the new frame because it's fun. And some hate people having fun apparently.

Dante's Overguard was never broken it was just the fact it's everywhere.

As for his LoS, why is it always with the LoS. That nerf tactic is never good, nerfing range i get, but that will never EVER WORK.

And it puts into question the other abilities that can nuke a tile without moving. I can count like 10 other warframes that can do what that ability can in a wider range and that's including Nezhas augment.

The thing making Nezhas augment viable are the green shards, so for them to get access to it, they need to get 4 archon shards that could've been spent somewhere else into Nezha, removing 2/5 slots just to make the Augment work in high level. Because Armor is that punishing.

2 uncraftable archon shards, unless someone is trully going into the game every week just for archon hunts and they never get bored of it. 2 amber and 2 blues could've been better spent for Casting speed, Parkour speed, Energy on spawn, Energy capacity, Shields, Armors Health and regen.

All of that utility sacrificed just to give corrosive 4 more status or like casting terrify.

Also without toxin in the equation, Dante's Overguard Regen is competing against Shield Regen Titans. That gives a lot more invulnerability time than .5 seconds.

[IcyDeadman666]

So why did you do choose to do this? My friends and I certainly didn't mind Dante from the get go, hell I felt like I could keep pace with the other map wipers and it definitely made hunting Kuva Lichs easier. I'm just happy you didn't decide to adjust his abilities out of the blue like you did to Ember when you got rid of her world on fire, not that she still isn't wiping maps as quickly as Saryn always has been. I'm not mad, just disappointed. I came back to the game because there was a new frame and new content. Now I don't know if I'm gonna keep playing the game at all if you're gonna change stuff a week after you release it. 

[MouthfulOJoules]

So, what do you guys think the augment will be this time?

[OG1AboveA11]

They are limiting reactions now because they don't want popular opinions to gain traction!

Edited April 4 by OG1AboveA11
Typo

[Anova3]

Just now, Waeleto said:

Dante has to use like 18 abilities to max his overguard cap, that's like triple the ability casts styanax has to do to max his overguard, the huge difference is INSANE 

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about that, but like I said, I think it would be acceptable if that's all they did to him. It's this on top of everything else that's really ruined his kit.

[TheBlackAce21]

6 minutes ago, Bloody_Loona said:

Hahahahha so what’s about Miarge 2nd nuke or maybe Saryn Dual ichor? Or maybe Gauss 3rd? Or let’s talk about Octavia, or Styanax augment? Let’s talk about Volt nuke, Voruna dmg cap… Let’s talk about Citrine new augment. Or maybe stop being ignorant and talking stupid things…

we can talk about it.

Mirage 2 scales terribly with armor as flat damage past about level 200 but is spammable so ends up being a bit high on the DPS anyway when built with range, probably needs addressed because of its effects on the ESO meta and farming there. Needs a nerf too.

Saryn Dual Ichor is a bit harder to quantify as I haven't been keeping up to date on that build path but I imagine toxic lash augment with ichor clouds does some weirdly op S#&$? Probably also a problem but has the novelty of requiring the player to actually engage in moving. I also read with interest that Dual Ichor was recently nerfed with some interaction the clouds had? Maybe it needs a nerf too?

Gauss 3rd removes armor AND deals damage but only on gauss himself. Range is pretty limited for the build meta rn so I think it's not awful. Helminth version only deals damage and it doesn't scale very well either.

Octavia....needs nerfed. Can't even argue that and if you do, you're a moron. Only infinitely scaling AoE damage ability left and it's not ok that it gets a free pass on LoS as well. Needs to either be nerfed in damage, or nerfed by LoS only.

Styanax augment I've not looked at. (Just went back and did, what the hell are you even talking about?)

Volt Nuke sucks at scaling...are you serious? Electricity damage is awful and the electric shock proc on nearby enemies is only good for stacked groupings + the range on it sucks. Not even worth a nerf.

Voruna at least requires engaged play and moving around to melee. Damage application spread for range is minimal and keeps it engaging.

Citrine augment? That's not a nuke....gonna assume you meant Nezha?

Nezha augment. Big problem, nerf to range is deserved but might not be enough. The whole augment is a bad idea. Status effect spread is such an awful idea to just give to anyone. Voruna has it but at least she has to aim the ability. Slash damage is insanely strong on it's own not to mention all the other fun things you can do with it. At least you'd have to move to melee...oh wait Dante 3 subsume just dropped...

 

You call me ignorant out of hand without f***ing listening to anything I have to say without maybe thinking I've been playing the game a long time and have made a general understanding of the math and concepts behind it my business. Even if I'm not up to date on all the broken interactions spawned lately. The problem with standing still and spamming a button is mostly a matter of how high level can you get away with it these days. Both Nezha's new augment and the OG Dante 4 give potential to increase damage scaling on nuke abilities well past what they are already capable of doing. I would like to see most of those nukes get reworked into things that require engaged play, even if they end up being MORE powerful than they are now, at least that will be healthier for the sanity of the players.

Standing still and nuking the room is bad. Things that require you to ENGAGE to nuke the room are fine, good, totally fun. But maybe you just haven't spent enough time staring at a f***ing wall spamming the same button over and over. I'll wait till you get as tired of it as me and the rest of the veterans to further comment. I'll say it one last time for the people in the back. More nuking, is bad for the game.

[Pseudozz]

So, I'm going to try to understand DE here.

Nerf og generation. Ok. We nerf the generation, but the issue of og gen mixed with frames that don't want og (inaros, chroma) still exists...

Guys how do we get rid of this remaining issue entirely instead of balancing overguard so it doesn't interfere with those frames?

Guys I got it!

We make it so no one wants to play dante at all! 

*LOS change for Tragedy*

Alright guys, problem solved! we didn't have to do any work, balancing, or really anything at all! We just had to nuke the best frame to release in a while off the goddamn map! Woohoo!

In all seriousness, WTF DE? What was this? Anyone know if I can get my money refunded from that lil dante package? And maybe my time refunded... somehow? 

[Prof-Dante]

So I saw the Dante nerfs...and I don't mind them.

Tragedy requires line of sight isn't such a big deal because dark verse and noctua don't have a 360 attack anyway, and most of my dot procs come from them or my weapons, that also doesn't have 360 aoe.

The Overguard reduction is manageable, as long as It's still scalable by strength.

 

But the buffs to Word warden is kind of stupid, 50% instead of 30%? Cool but how about you make it affected by strength?

And again, what's with the awful wording? "Increased damage of wordworden by 50% on warded allies"???

What? Does word warden spawn for each ally? If not what the hell does that mean?

[TummyLover]

Yeah I haven’t really noticed any difference with my pre-nerf build. Still killing, still got like 40k overguard.

i do wish wordwarden was a bit more useful (btw it does spawn for each ally) it’s just, it’s not bad but if you’re casting a lot and not using guns (or using melee) then it doesn’t really do anything at all. Some ability synergy would be nice (like how Mirage’s eclipse buffs prism) 

[DaRichi]

Legit loved playing Dante, stacking dots on everything and then popping all of the mobs with tragedy, now its just hot garbage, a peck of dust will be enough LOS to make tragedy a tragical waste of 100 energy..... not even mad at the overguard but the tragedy nerf is just completely killing the frame for me, 0 fun now...

[-Cyro-]

Chiming in to express support in reverting at least the line of sight changes.

I'm also concerned this sets a seriously bad precedent for the future. People who invested time, money, or in game resources (forma, archon shards) just feel like they were slapped in the face. I don't want to see people regret investing in DE as a company because of radical balance changes to new frames and equipment.

[Vermillion-Code]

11 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

we can talk about it.

Mirage 2 scales terribly with armor as flat damage past about level 200 but is spammable so ends up being a bit high on the DPS anyway when built with range, probably needs addressed because of its effects on the ESO meta and farming there. Needs a nerf too.

Saryn Dual Ichor is a bit harder to quantify as I haven't been keeping up to date on that build path but I imagine toxic lash augment with ichor clouds does some weirdly op S#&$? Probably also a problem but has the novelty of requiring the player to actually engage in moving. I also read with interest that Dual Ichor was recently nerfed with some interaction the clouds had? Maybe it needs a nerf too?

Gauss 3rd removes armor AND deals damage but only on gauss himself. Range is pretty limited for the build meta rn so I think it's not awful. Helminth version only deals damage and it doesn't scale very well either.

Octavia....needs nerfed. Can't even argue that and if you do, you're a moron. Only infinitely scaling AoE damage ability left and it's not ok that it gets a free pass on LoS as well. Needs to either be nerfed in damage, or nerfed by LoS only.

Styanax augment I've not looked at. (Just went back and did, what the hell are you even talking about?)

Volt Nuke sucks at scaling...are you serious? Electricity damage is awful and the electric shock proc on nearby enemies is only good for stacked groupings + the range on it sucks. Not even worth a nerf.

Voruna at least requires engaged play and moving around to melee. Damage application spread for range is minimal and keeps it engaging.

Citrine augment? That's not a nuke....gonna assume you meant Nezha?

Nezha augment. Big problem, nerf to range is deserved but might not be enough. The whole augment is a bad idea. Status effect spread is such an awful idea to just give to anyone. Voruna has it but at least she has to aim the ability. Slash damage is insanely strong on it's own not to mention all the other fun things you can do with it. At least you'd have to move to melee...oh wait Dante 3 subsume just dropped...

 

You call me ignorant out of hand without f***ing listening to anything I have to say without maybe thinking I've been playing the game a long time and have made a general understanding of the math and concepts behind it my business. Even if I'm not up to date on all the broken interactions spawned lately. The problem with standing still and spamming a button is mostly a matter of how high level can you get away with it these days. Both Nezha's new augment and the OG Dante 4 give potential to increase damage scaling on nuke abilities well past what they are already capable of doing. I would like to see most of those nukes get reworked into things that require engaged play, even if they end up being MORE powerful than they are now, at least that will be healthier for the sanity of the players.

Standing still and nuking the room is bad. Things that require you to ENGAGE to nuke the room are fine, good, totally fun. But maybe you just haven't spent enough time staring at a f***ing wall spamming the same button over and over. I'll wait till you get as tired of it as me and the rest of the veterans to further comment. I'll say it one last time for the people in the back. More nuking, is bad for the game.

You really don't like this game lmao.

If you want to nerf every single thing in Warframe I think you just don't like Warframe buddy.

Edited April 4 by Vermillion-Code

[Luslect]

Why would you nerf a Warframe that has just been released, this is not PvP, let people have fun. His overguard is not even a problem it just disappears in high level, nuke ability is great, for us solo players.

[OnestarMike]

https://clips.twitch.tv/StupidSteamySandpiperTF2John-qWt9OPuHGyqJlP6o
 

This change just destroyed 1/4 of dante's kit, without addressing the actual issue of overguard which was health interactions. Yall can leave the overguard cap nerf it doesn't matter.

Either that or supercharge the nerf cannon on a dozen other warframes because it is just plain unfair. Dante gameplay was fun and interactive. Now a big chunk of it has been gutted. And for nothing. Well unless you consider just eliminating the warframe from player lobbies in which case congratz big ups for you guys. 🙃

I'm sorry for the snark, but I came back to warframe for this update because I was super excited about this frame. I was having fun not falling asleep to menial tasks that I always have to do to farm resources because the frame was legit perfect and fit the wizard aesthetic. It felt difficult to get back into the game because Wisp 4 doesn't do anything so I have no real warframe that I enjoy playing. I just slap on a bunch of strength and defense mods on her and use guns. Why play dante now when I can just use wisp and not disrupt other players?

I'm probably just gonna get bored and frustrated trying to make dante work and quit the game again. I don't want to play sayrn and octavia to grind anymore man... This sucks. I've never made a post in this game before but this was truly a depressing moment to witness for this game.

Edited April 4 by OnestarMike

[SaltyMaverick]

3 hours ago, Rognyr said:

.......well then, add line of sight checks to everything.....seriously.....everything......inconsistency is worse to me then nitpicking each frame.....so angry....

 

Edit: also....this wouldent have happened to a female frame....

They did the "line of sight" BS to Khora a while back.  I think I remember them adjusting it to try to make it hit more reliably, but I still have had issues with it not hitting enemies when it should.

[SpiralGalaxia]

Applying these nerfs after people bought Dante with Platinum from market or had invested formas in him leaves a very bad taste.

[Prof-Dante]

11 minutes ago, TummyLover said:

Yeah I haven’t really noticed any difference with my pre-nerf build. Still killing, still got like 40k overguard.

i do wish wordwarden was a bit more useful (btw it does spawn for each ally) it’s just, it’s not bad but if you’re casting a lot and not using guns (or using melee) then it doesn’t really do anything at all. Some ability synergy would be nice (like how Mirage’s eclipse buffs prism) 

I don't play public anymore so I wouldn't know...but It really needs something better because yikes!

[Tecstasy]

3 minutes ago, SaltyMaverick said:

They did the "line of sight" BS to Khora a while back.  I think I remember them adjusting it to try to make it hit more reliably, but I still have had issues with it not hitting enemies when it should.

It's great when your companion stands between you and the enemies and LOS you

[TheFool643]

Welllllllp. You got the nerf you asked for. Back to the old frames.

[Pink_Jaguar]

Welp, just saw all the nerfs and changes to Dante and.. I'm not too pleased tbh. I didn't really see him as overpowered but I was looking forward to making him into a new main but ig that was money wasted. I don't mean to be dramatic or a whiner. (this is literally my first forum post here but felt like I had to say something)

From seeing the notes and the videos, Dante doesn't look too enticing anymore and definitely doesn't look like he'd be a good warframe for any endgame missions. (Which is important to me because that's basically all I do nowadays and Dante's kit was looking promising and he was a warframe I had a lot of fun with play style wise.) 

 

Just wanted to voice my initial options but I know even after me and I'm assuming most other people complain about this, nothing will change. Ironic, him being named after the poet and now experiencing his own layers of "hell".

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 24 minutes, MouthfulOJoules a dit :

So, what do you guys think the augment will be this time?

"Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms."

Will be reverted and become an augment later down the line.

Edited April 4 by 2wentyThre3

[Pseudozz]

3 minutes ago, TheFool643 said:

Welllllllp. You got the nerf you asked for. Back to the old frames.

Same old same old. 

[Waeleto]

25 minutes ago, MouthfulOJoules said:

So, what do you guys think the augment will be this time?

"Tragedy now ignores LoS but loses 25% range"
"Triumph grants dante only double the overguard amount"

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

33 minutes ago, OG1AboveA11 said:

They are limiting reactions now because they don't want popular opinions to gain traction!

Speak louder and angrier dont let your voices be shut out by people that don't want to hear the truth that Dante was a purfect frame the way he was 

[_GoodLuck_]

A magician can't cast a spell thru walls. It's like Usain Bolt can't run. DE just made useless and harmful nerf as always