FORCED loadout "randomizer" must go

[moondog548]

18 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

All of this could be agreed with... If only very valuable rewards (such as archon shards) weren't locked behind this anti-fun content. But sure, keep skipping and refusing the rewards, if it's apparently an option for you. A lot of people have a different opinion on "skipping rewards" however.

I know you know this, and I know it's been said many times. But here's one more since you forgot:

Bird 3 and the netracells give you the exact same rewards in somewhat smaller quantities... than the by-design-top-teir-activity.

Is that optimal design? I dunno and that's subjective anyway.  You would clearly prefer things otherwise, no argument on that! But any feelings of being FORCED into this content or that you NEED these rewards is absolutely just your personal subjective perspective.

No doubt a system is possible that would better please everyone by some margin. I'm just seeing this one doing a pretty good job in the context of the wider highly-rewarding game.

[moondog548]

7 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Ikr? Playing a looter shooter and expecting to get loot its so silly... Its like playing Mario expecting to do some platforming or a Souls expecting never dying. Such babycriers that want loot...

In fact, i would remove all the loot from EDA, that will teach them to just play for the fun.

If there is a lot of people that play like that, maybe it would explain why there is many people saying that EDA is challenging.

I'm genuinely sorry that the content has dissappointed you to the point of getting upset. I'm also sorry that your upset has been met on occassion with unsympathetic and unhelpful replies.

But this here response is a straight up willful denial of the reality of the circumstances  that you're mad about. These statements have no relation to the state of the game nor the comments you quoted.

We can keep a productive discussion going about how the game mode could be better improved if we can keep our tempers.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

4 hours ago, moondog548 said:

I know you know this, and I know it's been said many times. But here's one more since you forgot:

Bird 3 and the netracells give you the exact same rewards in somewhat smaller quantities... than the by-design-top-teir-activity.

Is that optimal design? I dunno and that's subjective anyway.  You would clearly prefer things otherwise, no argument on that! But any feelings of being FORCED into this content or that you NEED these rewards is absolutely just your personal subjective perspective.

No doubt a system is possible that would better please everyone by some margin. I'm just seeing this one doing a pretty good job in the context of the wider highly-rewarding game.

1) 2 Netracell "keys" a week get consumed to unlock DA/EDA. Out of these 2 keys, you get a total of 5 reward rolls(possibly all shards, if lucky), as opposed to 2 reward rolls from 2 regular Netracell runs that you could have done for those 2 keys;

2) After doing DA/EDA and already getting 5 rewards, you are still left with 3 more Netracell keys the same week, for 3 more rewards a week (possibly all shards too, if lucky);

3) And Bird 3's shard-a-week is also one more "reward" (just guaranteed shard here, cuz it's not a "roll").

5+3+1=9. All of this is not a replacement/alternative. It's cumulative-per-week. Together. Combined. Case one plus case two plus case three. All together. At the same time. Hope this is clear?

By abandoning one of these - be it not doing DA/EDA OR not doing Netracells OR not spending Cavia standing for the shard - you are actively shooting yourself in the foot, as you are choosing to get less rewards a week, as opposed to someone who does everything combined. If you are not doing DA/EDA, only 5 Netracell runs + buying one from Bird, you are getting 5+1=6. If you avoid even the Netracells too, you're only getting 1 from the Bird, that's it. Either way, you are de-facto getting less rewards a week. This isn't opinion, this is fact. Math. Basic math. Basic numbers. 9 rewards a week vs less, if you willingly choose to "refuse rewards" in any shape or form - be it via refusing the randomizer/some modifiers or outright not doing DA/EDA or even Netracells(since they are also part of the discussion). Hope that is clear too?

And these reward rolls this particular week that you skipped? Or the one before it that you skipped? Or any other week that you chose to skip? They are not coming back. All these skipped weeks will be "gone", you won't be able to "catch up" with someone who would do DA/EDA+Netracells+Bird3 every week. Sure, you get same reward-table every single week, yes yes. But... Cumulative number, over time, over the course of multiple weeks, you know? It's gonna be the next and next and next week's rewards already. All those previous, skipped week rewards? Gone for good. That easy to understand as well, I hope?

Now, bear with me here... IF - hypothetically, for example - there was an option to just outright buy 5 "DA/EDA reward-rolls" from Bird 3 for Cavia standing(for example!), as opposed to doing DA/EDA itself(thus skipping the un-fun gameplay loop) - then yes. It's an "alternative". Or - hypothetically, for example! - do any other gameplay mode whatsoever that would trigger reward-rolls from the same DA/EDA "research" pool and get the same possible rewards - then yes. It's an "alternative" too. Because it theoretically provides the same final amount of rewards in the end. Otherwise - it's not alternative, it's just less. And you actively chose yourself to get less rewards. Which is not an option for most people.

 

Oh and yeah. Neither Netracells, nor DA/EDA are "endgame" or "top tier activity" - just high level, that's it. They aren't even challenging, they are obnoxiously frustrating and overly-time-consuming, "just for the sake of challenge"... And even then fail to provide said challenge in the end, after all the bucket-load of modifiers and anti-Warframe mechanics(which is the randomizer or toggling off Operator, for example). Because one half of the modifiers can be outright "ignored" via various warframe mechanics(overguard, shield-gating and shield-regen, literal friggin movement/parkour, you know?), while the other half just prolongs the process and wastes time instead of actually adding any challenge or difficulty. Be it by turning enemies into bullet sponges(that case of 90%DR if not weak point) or outright immortal(those modifiers of needing to be in 15m range or having to throw elemental bowls during Alchemy). None of this is difficulty. It's just artificial prolongation(for a lack of a better word in my vocabulary, as I'm not a native English speaker) of the playthrough of a mode that literally exists as a one-off weekly run for the rewards, as there is zero replayability in it. Get in, get reward, wait for the reset next monday. Just like daily Sorties. Just like weekly Archon Hunts aka Sorties 2.0.

So yes, DA/EDA is just Sortie 3.0, which is done in a one-off fashion, just for the rewards. That's it. And randomizer(among other things) just makes this Sortie 3.0 thing obnoxiously frustrating and un-fun experience - when it could be something much better. For example, by not taking away player agency, for starters, you know? Just like literally the rest of the game modes, allowing full freedom of choice on how to tackle any sort of challenge/objective/enemy. It's literally one of the core designs behind Warframe as a whole, as a game. With the exception of Duviri... which should have stayed as THE ONLY "randomizer" mode in the game.

So yeah. Stop lying to yourselves and stop white-knighting for DE, at least, please, it's not healthy for you.

4 hours ago, moondog548 said:

I'm genuinely sorry that the content has dissappointed you to the point of getting upset. I'm also sorry that your upset has been met on occassion with unsympathetic and unhelpful replies.

But this here response is a straight up willful denial of the reality of the circumstances  that you're mad about. These statements have no relation to the state of the game nor the comments you quoted.

We can keep a productive discussion going about how the game mode could be better improved if we can keep our tempers.

This sort of wording awfully feels like this, tbh...

Edited May 8 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[Gaxxian]

hace 10 horas, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ dijo:

Now, bear with me here... IF - hypothetically, for example - there was an option to just outright buy 5 "DA/EDA reward-rolls" from Bird 3 for Cavia standing(for example!), as opposed to doing DA/EDA itself(thus skipping the un-fun gameplay loop) - then yes. It's an "alternative". Or - hypothetically, for example! - do any other gameplay mode whatsoever that would trigger reward-rolls from the same DA/EDA "research" pool and get the same possible rewards - then yes. It's an "alternative" too. Because it theoretically provides the same final amount of rewards in the end. Otherwise - it's not alternative, it's just less. And you actively chose yourself to get less rewards. Which is not an option for most people.

Its actually even worse. Isn't just that you are winning less rewards not doing EDA, but that the reward table in EDA its MUCH better than the one in Netracells. So, you win a LOT of tau shards. Each one equals to 3 the regular shards that, when you are lucky, you can get in normal Netracells (yes, you can also get Tau in netracells, but the chances are so slim that could be nonexistent).

So, you could be talking to, effectively, comparing 12 vs 6 rewards.

hace 10 horas, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ dijo:

This sort of wording awfully feels like this, tbh...

Yep, thats why i'm just ignoring that answer tbh xD

Talking in the most condescending tone with a default moral superiority it's the new fashion in modern behavior in occidental society, and im too done with it to even acknowledge those comments, so i just pretend that i didnt read them (after all, when you dont really have your own personality because you just act like others expect you... we could even philosophize about whether you exist as individual).

[obiwandandobi2]

12 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

So yeah. Stop lying to yourselves and stop white-knighting for DE, at least, please, it's not healthy for you.

I am tired of this lazy bull crap argument of 'if you don't agree with me you're white knighting'. I enjoy it, others enjoy it, some don't enjoy it. Its not white knighting. White knighting is going along with anything the dev does. I don't. I spoke up against Regal Aya when it first came out. I spoke up against the Heirloom collection. So get off your high horse and accept not everyone agrees with you.

Do the mission and get the rewards or don't and don't get the rewards. They're the two alternatives.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

7 minutes ago, obiwandandobi2 said:

I enjoy it, others enjoy it,

There is nothing to enjoy here. It's a one-off weekly thing, a Sortie 3.0. You're just lying to yourselves and to everyone else, just to get some misguided feeling of "superiority over plebs" who "dare to criticize DE" and this clearly bad design.

Survival? Enjoyable. Because it's repayable, with every run yielding rewards. Defense/Mobile Defense? Enjoyable, because they are repayable too and also give rewards every run. Plus all of these can be turned endless. Same applies to literally any other piece of content. Hell, even to Duviri - there is at least some sort of "replayability" there, with every single circuit/duviri experience run yielding rewards, no matter when. And the randomizer in Duniri is "okay"(ish) to an extent, because it's not as high levels and any bad rolls are easily "fixed" by either decrees or simple re-rolls.

DA/EDA is a weekly one-off, Sortie 3.0. You do it once, get this week's rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Just like Archon Hunts are also a weekly one-off. You also do it once, get this week rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Because Archon Hunts were literally just Sortie 2.0 - moved from daily reset to weekly. And yeah, Sorties themselves aka Sorties 1.0 - you do it once a day, get reward, wait till the next day. That's literally it. There is no fun, there is no replayability. These things exist for the rewards and rewards only. By design.

Claiming you "enjoy" it is pure copium, white-knighting and attempt to feel "superior" over anyone who dislikes it, for whatever reason there might be for the dislike - be it randomizer or supposed difficulty or lack of balance or whatever else. There is literally nothing to enjoy in this Sortie 3.0.

[Shodian87]

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

There is nothing to enjoy here.

 

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

There is literally nothing to enjoy in this Sortie 3.0.

 

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

DA/EDA is a weekly one-off, Sortie 3.0. You do it once, get this week's rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Just like Archon Hunts are also a weekly one-off. You also do it once, get this week rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Because Archon Hunts were literally just Sortie 2.0 - moved from daily reset to weekly. And yeah, Sorties themselves aka Sorties 1.0 - you do it once a day, get reward, wait till the next day. That's literally it. There is no fun, there is no replayability. These things exist for the rewards and rewards only. By design.

And that's a bad thing, why?

[obiwandandobi2]

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

There is nothing to enjoy here. It's a one-off weekly thing, a Sortie 3.0. You're just lying to yourselves and to everyone else, just to get some misguided feeling of "superiority over plebs" who "dare to criticize DE" and this clearly bad design.

Survival? Enjoyable. Because it's repayable, with every run yielding rewards. Defense/Mobile Defense? Enjoyable, because they are repayable too and also give rewards every run. Plus all of these can be turned endless. Same applies to literally any other piece of content. Hell, even to Duviri - there is at least some sort of "replayability" there, with every single circuit/duviri experience run yielding rewards, no matter when. And the randomizer in Duniri is "okay"(ish) to an extent, because it's not as high levels and any bad rolls are easily "fixed" by either decrees or simple re-rolls.

DA/EDA is a weekly one-off, Sortie 3.0. You do it once, get this week's rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Just like Archon Hunts are also a weekly one-off. You also do it once, get this week rewards, wait till the rewards reset. Because Archon Hunts were literally just Sortie 2.0 - moved from daily reset to weekly. And yeah, Sorties themselves aka Sorties 1.0 - you do it once a day, get reward, wait till the next day. That's literally it. There is no fun, there is no replayability. These things exist for the rewards and rewards only. By design.

Claiming you "enjoy" it is pure copium, white-knighting and attempt to feel "superior" over anyone who dislikes it, for whatever reason there might be for the dislike - be it randomizer or supposed difficulty or lack of balance or whatever else. There is literally nothing to enjoy in this Sortie 3.0.

K

[Saltymr]

I enjoy it and want to see the system applied elsewhere and with the other factions.

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb obiwandandobi2:

I am tired of this lazy bull crap argument of 'if you don't agree with me you're white knighting'. I enjoy it, others enjoy it, some don't enjoy it. Its not white knighting. White knighting is going along with anything the dev does. I don't. I spoke up against Regal Aya when it first came out. I spoke up against the Heirloom collection. So get off your high horse and accept not everyone agrees with you.

Do the mission and get the rewards or don't and don't get the rewards. They're the two alternatives.

Yea I'm such a white knight I ate a warning point for dev bashing during regal aya. Surpised I didnt get one over the heirloom collection aswell because I was basically saying the same thing.

[Letter13]

8 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

There is nothing to enjoy here. It's a one-off weekly thing, a Sortie 3.0. You're just lying to yourselves and to everyone else...

We get it. You don't enjoy it. But in the wise words of the dude... "Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man."

You should really refresh yourself on the differences between subjective opinion and subjective facts. Your statement of 'There is nothing to enjoy here' is, as has been repeatedly demonstrated by others, 100% subjective opinion.

You're not the gold standard for what determines others' enjoyment, it's cute that you think you are, but you ain't. You don't think or speak for the playerbase... you think and speak for you. And sure, some people will agree with you... just like some people will disagree with you too.

And you know what's really cool? The people who are disagreeing with you are voicing their opinions too! Just like you. It's all subjective. And you know what the great thing about subjective opinions is? There's no such thing as a right or wrong opinion for something like this!

 

Oh, also, if you're only interested in holding a one-sided discussion and claiming that others' feedback is invalid because 'oh there's no way this could be true' and 'oh you're just white knighting' then I am more than happy to lock the thread for having run its course. Like I said at the beginning of my post, we get it, you don't like it; but this is an open forum and when you post your opinion, you are opening yourself to public discourse and the potential for having your opinion be dissected and critiqued by the community. Not liking others' opinions and then employing ye olde strawman in an attempt to invalidate them and say that they or their opinions have no worth is not the way to hold a civil and constructive discussion.

 

 

7 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Yea I'm such a white knight I ate a warning point for dev bashing during regal aya. Surpised I didnt get one over the heirloom collection aswell because I was basically saying the same thing.

I mean, clearly you must be a white knight if you like this game mode! It's simply not possible for people to enjoy it, @_Kit_Kat_Cat_ only ever posts objective fact! Your warning point and dev bashing is clearly just a false flag operation by the developers and white knights... /s

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

8 hours ago, obiwandandobi2 said:

Do the mission and get the rewards or don't and don't get the rewards. They're the two alternatives.

Agreed. I chose not to do the missions and forsake the rewards. One of the great strengths of Warframe (for me, anyway) has been the ability to take things at my own pace, progress, build new stuff and do content as the mood takes me. I've been uncomfortable with the recent trends for time restricted things; yes, sorties have been that way for years, but a while back (just after last TennoCon) I was playing on a Sunday evening and realised : I hadn't done the Archon Hunt, Kahl, finished The Circuit, gathered enough Steel Essence for Teshin's Umbral Forma...so I just switched it off. I don't need that time constraint. And now here's more with Netracells and DA/EDA. Yes, I know people will say "just get it done", but that's part of the problem. I don't want to play Warframe to "get it done", I want to play Warframe for fun. So I've decided to ignore the time gated stuff - I might play a Netracell or two if I want to try out a build, but as feedback goes, for me, time restrictions, especially on a weekly level, cause me to go and play other things. Not everyone's view, I appreciate, but just my bit of feedback.

The other element is the randomiser - if the debuffs were increased but you could use your arsenal to counter them (as best you can) then this might be something I'd enjoy. However, having the system enforce a choice of frames and weapons takes away my agency. There are frames I don't enjoy; there are weapons I don't enjoy. I know I don't as I've built them, leveled them (tried the Prime as I'm a collector) but ultimately I still don't like them. And before any accusations of "Revenant main" - I have 35 loadout slots I use on a regular basis, some of which rotate frames/weapons that take my fancy. Also Revenant is one of my "don't enjoy" frames :-)

Anyway, just my 2p's worth

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

8 hours ago, Shodian87 said:

And that's a bad thing, why?

You're asking this question, but are you really ready to listen to the answer and not instantly dismiss it?

Because:

5 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Oh, also, if you're only interested in holding a one-sided discussion and claiming that others' feedback is invalid because 'oh there's no way this could be true' and 'oh you're just white knighting' then I am more than happy to lock the thread for having run its course. Like I said at the beginning of my post, we get it, you don't like it; but this is an open forum and when you post your opinion, you are opening yourself to public discourse and the potential for having your opinion be dissected and critiqued by the community. Not liking others' opinions and then employing ye olde strawman in an attempt to invalidate them and say that they or their opinions have no worth is not the way to hold a civil and constructive discussion.

...two can play at this "game". I'm merely mirroring the behavior of those who come to this thread (and others like it) and say that my feedback and criticism is "opinion and wrong"... instead of moving back out of the thread, into this same feedback section, and then posting their own POSITIVE feedback thread, about how they liked it, what they liked it, what they enjoyed, etc. No. They don't do that. They come to this thread and other threads with criticism and just claim we're all wrong for not liking it, while they are having all the fun in the world. Going as far as claiming that "the enjoyment of playing the mode is all the reward they ever need"... Yet when offered a way to satisfy both sides - moving rewards elsewhere, leaving the mode without any rewards (cuz they say the don't need em lul) - they instantly back out of their "opinion" of only enjoying it "for the gameplay and not the reward".

All of these posts were clearly made in order to "create conflict just for the sake of conflict" and nothing more.

That's literally the same behavior as you describe about me. One-sided "opinion" and refusal to accept that other opinions - negative, such as mine and others - could also exist. And when faced with logical discussion and facts over the course of multiple pages of this and other threads, where THEIR opinion(countering ours) is just as equally "dissected" and falls apart with facts - they just keep on pushing the same thing, just re-wording it. Hence why the common trope of everyone defending this is "just refuse the rewards", just worded differently - like "toggle off modiffiers/don't use randomizer/don't play the mode/etc". Yeah, in a game-mode that exists solely for providing the rewards, with said rewards being locked behind it and only it, without equal amount alternative elsewhere. In a looter-shooter game, sure. Just willingly refuse em, yup. With the mode that takes away player agency and choice, unlike literally the rest of the game for these 11 years did. With one of the key factors of people enjoying the game being the choice and variety of options to chose from of how to engage this or that threat. On their terms, with their gear. If people wanted randomized stuff - people would play rogue-lites. Not Warframe.

Yet the "attacks" and "creation of conflict just for the sake of conflict" by these people here seems exactly as some pseudo-elitist behavior of typical white-knightism - "how dare you criticize the developer and their perfect game? I'm having fun, while you're wrong, so you're a pleb and your OPINION is wrong". That's what it is.

Soooo... It's literally the same and I'm merely mirroring that behavior - just to defend myself and my feedback. Fight fire with fire. One-sided view versus one-sided view, refusing to accept the terms of the other side, refusing even to consider or often even read the stuff in the first place. Giving them a taste of their own medicine, you know? Nothing more. Clearly they came here to not have an actual discussion, but to say that my feedback is wrong and I'm wrong and should feel bad about saying all these things about Warframe or this game-mode.

 

But sure. You're a moderator, you're in charge, you have the power and the choice. Feel free to lock this thread, if you feel like that's the right thing to do here. Just as long as this thread is not outright deleted and ignored by the DEvelopers as a result of your moderation. 

Edited May 9 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[Letter13]

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Soooo... It's literally the same and I'm merely mirroring that behavior - just to defend myself and my feedback. Fight fire with fire. One-sided view versus one-sided view...

Is it though?

"I don't like A, A needs to be removed" - you

"I like A, I think it should stay, if you don't like A, you don't have to play it" - some other user

"You're a white knight/are lying to yourself/it's impossible for you or anyone else to like A" - you

That's not a healthy progression for any sort of discussion.

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

facts

You keep using that word...

[Dezh]

The randomizer is a non-feature. It doesn't add difficulty but frustration. Being lucky isn't being good, being unlucky isn't being bad. It must go as it tarnishes the potential for difficult and interesting content. The game is not balanced around everything being viable vs enemies that high level and enhanced, most lacking is Warframe survivability of course.

But there is more.

The void explosion scaling is insane and I doubt it has been checked. Conversely some things that shouldn't help against it can make you immune (e.g. Mesa).

The ghosts that chase you break multiple core game mechanics, which is as far from elegant design as one can get. No counterplay beyond "go somewhere else" which can prove difficult when the mission requires you to go to specific places.

The rest of the modifiers, while some might need number tuning (down or up), are nice.

 

This week, neither Friday, nor Saturday I was able to get a pub group, completed all others before just like that. I take that as feedback that people give who might not go to the forums or reddit - and they voted by not doing it in large enough numbers. Which is understandable since this week has everything that's terrible about the game mode all in one.

[Caliboom]

Wonder why DE isn't listening to the feedback, pretty much nearly everyone is saying this is a bad design and offered better alternatives to make the gamemode more fun.

Oh wait, it's because this is gonna encourage people to spend platinum on forma and slots. Who would have known.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

19 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

Wonder why DE isn't listening to the feedback, pretty much nearly everyone is saying this is a bad design and offered better alternatives to make the gamemode more fun.

Oh wait, it's because this is gonna encourage people to spend platinum on forma and slots. Who would have known.

Fun fact: it won't. Only a few would bother spending plat on getting gear they are missing or formaing the stuff.

Most people though? Work-AROUNDS the system. Go in, use one meta frame or necramech or carry, get rewards, wait for reset. That's exactly what's already happening and will keep on happening.

[kajityen]

6 hours ago, Caliboom said:

Wonder why DE isn't listening to the feedback, pretty much nearly everyone is saying this is a bad design and offered better alternatives to make the gamemode more fun.

Oh wait, it's because this is gonna encourage people to spend platinum on forma and slots. Who would have known.

The scary thing is that you are at a disadvantage if you spend money to increase your SLOT and have a lot of weapons!

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

Another week, another reset, another boring successful run. I just used Dante + RNG weapons. Before killing 50 enemies to unlock abilities(as per this week's modifier), a few people got downed every once a while - me included. The moment we got past 50 kills in each of the three missions... The randoms did the objectives/killing, while I've simply spammed overguard regen over and over and over, making us invulnerable(even through the empowered Kulverins modifier, with the 5x dmg to overguard) and trivializing the whole experience and making it an absolute smooth run, "in and out".

RNG gear as part of this mode might as well not exist at all, if this is possible - with Dante, Wisp or Revenant. RNG gear adds nothing, just forces to use "cheeze" tactics like these over something that we'd enjoy using ourselves. Literally would have been the same results, just minus the negativity of being forced to use some RNG nonsense.

[Shodian87]

8 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Another week, another reset, another boring successful run. I just used Dante + RNG weapons. Before killing 50 enemies to unlock abilities(as per this week's modifier), a few people got downed every once a while - me included. The moment we got past 50 kills in each of the three missions... The randoms did the objectives/killing, while I've simply spammed overguard regen over and over and over, making us invulnerable(even through the empowered Kulverins modifier, with the 5x dmg to overguard) and trivializing the whole experience and making it an absolute smooth run, "in and out".

RNG gear as part of this mode might as well not exist at all, if this is possible - with Dante, Wisp or Revenant. RNG gear adds nothing, just forces to use "cheeze" tactics like these over something that we'd enjoy using ourselves. Literally would have been the same results, just minus the negativity of being forced to use some RNG nonsense.

Nicely done beating the EDA this week. 👏 

[MaxTunnerX]

I guess Im late to the party, but let me just say I agree 100% with the OP, randomizer thigns should never be mandatory, always voluntary. Only people who like playing random things should have them, not everyone. But then again, randomizers are a gold mine for DE and thats why theyre still here and multiplying.

Edited May 13 by MaxTunnerX

[Caliboom]

People say that the randomizer is there to "prevent burnout" so they don't use the same gear over and over, but I think it's the opposite, I get more tired of the game by using frames and weapons I don't enjoy. I have builds that I think are fun and that I would love to test in the gamemode but that I cannot because DE is delusional enough to think that forcing you to use garbage weapons in order to get rewards is a good idea. Because that's the problem with Warframe, 90% of weapons are garbage, no amount of modding is gonna fix them, and I'd rather use the gear I worked hard to grind and make powerful.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

1 minute ago, Caliboom said:

People say that the randomizer is there to "prevent burnout" so they don't use the same gear over and over, but I think it's the opposite, I get more tired of the game by using frames and weapons I don't enjoy. I have builds that I think are fun and that I would love to test in the gamemode but that I cannot because DE is delusional enough to think that forcing you to use garbage weapons in order to get rewards is a good idea. Because that's the problem with Warframe, 90% of weapons are garbage, no amount of modding is gonna fix them, and I'd rather use the gear I worked hard to grind and make powerful.

Well, I wouldn't say "90% of weapons" (let alone warframes, as they are also part of the randomizer)... But for sure there are quite a few underperforming pieces of gear that are simply dated and can't compete with the more recent releases of gear. Definitely not 90% though... But still quite a few. And you can very much get that stuff in the randomizer.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

Another week goes by. Another reset. Another effortless completion on the first go with barely anyone(randoms) going down through all three missions.

Still boring. Still not offering any difficulty whatsoever. Still uninspired and low-effort production. Still takes away player agency over how to approach a supposedly "endgame" content, resulting in cheese tactics to go around it.

 

This week's rotation for me was so far the easiest, tbh. Two words: Dante + Laetum.

 

Gear randomizer should be removed from the mode, period.

Edited May 20 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[obiwandandobi2]

7 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Another week goes by. Another reset. Another effortless completion on the first go with barely anyone(randoms) going down through all three missions.

Still boring. Still not offering any difficulty whatsoever. Still uninspired and low-effort production. Still takes away player agency over how to approach a supposedly "endgame" content, resulting in cheese tactics to go around it.

 

This week's rotation for me was so far the easiest, tbh. Two words: Dante + Laetum.

 

Gear randomizer should be removed from the mode, period.

K