"A few tweaks" Rebecca said calmly.

[Prof-Dante]

This is just a joke post, but I'll use the words D, A, N, T, E so the mods will probably merge it too.

Anyway, Since the wizard is now as magical as a stage magician trying to perform in 2024, or Dumbledore trying to be useful in movies...I will be abandoning this frame.

Reading the patch notes was one thing and actually testing them was something else entirely...I didn't think these nerfs would be this bad because I play other LoS nuke frames...but this is something else.

Anyway, at least I have Lavos, and he's nerf proof because he has cooldowns, and DE looooves those right?

I can't be arsed to spend 200 more plat so...

Hey everybody, this is Prof-Lavos.

[Aruquae]

You're giving up on the librarian already?
Cmon now, I can hear him shushing furiously now

 

[Prof-Dante]

17 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

You're giving up on the librarian already?
Cmon now, I can hear him shushing furiously now

 

Never! 

I'm just making fun of myself and DE tbh

 

But no matter how terrible he is, like I've said times and times again, it's about the themes

Edited April 5 by Prof-Dante

[(PSN)robotwars7]

23 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

Hey everybody, this is Prof-Lavos.

I really don't think the nerfs are that bad. plus they apparently reverted some of it (yes, I know that's a classic trick to make the initial nerfs seem not so bad, they still do it). 

afraid you're stuck as prof Dante, but at least you can always claim it's a DMC reference if you have to I guess.

[Cram_Duahcim]

The forums have been the highest of comedy the past couple of days.

[quxier]

29 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

This is just a joke post, but I'll use the words D, A, N, T, E so the mods will probably merge it too.

Anyway, Since the wizard is now as magical as a stage magician trying to perform in 2024, or Dumbledore trying to be useful in movies...I will be abandoning this frame.

Reading the patch notes was one thing and actually testing them was something else entirely...I didn't think these nerfs would be this bad because I play other LoS nuke frames...but this is something else.

I've played it with Precision intensify (100% str for 4th) and it's... fine. I've tested it in Netracells and I think SP allert.

30 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

this is Prof-Lavos.

Wait... is it old Qorvex99(9)?

4 minutes ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

The forums have been the highest of comedy the past couple of days.

A little bit but the amount of post is amazing. I was like,

> "hmm let me read few post"

> *sees 10-20 pages*

> "nope"

 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, quxier said:

Wait... is it old Qorvex99(9)?

Nah, an entirely different Qorvex
Probably Qorvex69

 

7 minutes ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

The forums have been the highest of comedy the past couple of days.

Entertainment at it's finest

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I don't mean this as a call out or accusation or anything, but didn't you make a thread the other day saying that the nerfs were fine? 

Or was it specifically as you said, you read the notes, but in practice the experience was different? 

Anyway I sympathise. I was going to reply to your other thread before it got merged and I couldn't find it, but my reply was going to disagree a little. Since I don't think the framing of "its fine" is necessarily the best for such situations. If all Warframes were nerfed (or buffed) by 1%, that would also be fine, since its "only 1%", but if they did this every day, and increased to 2%... You could argue, well, its still only 2%, not that big a buff or nerf, its fine. It really would be fine, but also things can be fine, but warrant criticism and or discussion, so on. 

I say this as someone who is like, fine with basically everything, with most Warframe things, to the point I would probably wake up one day, and realise Warframes have no powers, can't bullet jump, and constantly die in basic missions, and still probably consider it fine, if my fav guns still worked the same. So this is as much of a reminder to myself to be careful of the "its fine" idea. 

I personally think more time needs to pass before such big changes. I personally like how fast and ready to implement changes DE is, but also... like maybe wait a few weeks too, get more feedback from more sources. I think I probably play Warframe too much, but even I only had 2 days of D A N T E, just because I couldn't earn him on the first day, and I waited 3-4 days for him to build... What about Warframe players who only play in the weekends and stuff? 

Anyway, ironically I think Lavos is fine, because many people don't like the "hassle" of mixing his elements. I love Lavos, I don't really have a main, but Nidus, Mag, and Lavos (and Citrine) are probably my most played of the last two years. I think Lavos is very powerful, and slept on, but I also kind of like that he is slept on, because I wouldn't want him to be excessively popular and thus require balancing. 

[quxier]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Anyway I sympathise. I was going to reply to your other thread before it got merged and I couldn't find it, but my reply was going to disagree a little. Since I don't think the framing of "its fine" is necessarily the best for such situations. If all Warframes were nerfed (or buffed) by 1%, that would also be fine, since its "only 1%", but if they did this every day, and increased to 2%... You could argue, well, its still only 2%, not that big a buff or nerf, its fine. It really would be fine, but also things can be fine, but warrant criticism and or discussion, so on. 

You mean everyday +1%? Even 1% per week would give you 1,67x boost. Or 0,59x with nerfs.

 

[Kaiga]

You realize they rolled back the nerfs somewhat today right. They're not as nonfunctionally bad now, not that they were frame-killing to begin with.

[Prof-Dante]

29 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Entertainment at it's finest

Always happy to serve

31 minutes ago, quxier said:

Wait... is it old Qorvex99(9)?

You didn't know?

26 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

don't mean this as a call out or accusation or anything, but didn't you make a thread the other day saying that the nerfs were fine? 

Or was it specifically as you said, you read the notes, but in practice the experience was different? 

Yeah, this is exactly what happened, I read the patch notes thought they were "fine" and when tested them I got the biggest slap to the face.

LoS is terrible in crowded corridors, and overguard gain on triumph is abysmal

41 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

afraid you're stuck as prof Dante

Nah, I am joking Robot I love the frame still, otherwise i wouldn't just spend 200p to change my name lol

1 minute ago, Kaiga said:

You realize they rolled back the nerfs somewhat today right. They're not as nonfunctionally bad now, not that they were frame-killing to begin with.

LoS still exists, Wordwarden is still useless, and Triumph is still poor

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

25 minutes ago, quxier said:

You mean everyday +1%? Even 1% per week would give you 1,67x boost. Or 0,59x with nerfs.

 

 

The first day being 1%, but then additional days doubling, so second being an additional 2% and then 4% until you can guess where this is going with either buffs or nerfs. 

My main point is, being fine with stuff is fine, because thats me too, I am usually fine, and I don't tend to have strong negative or positive reactions to Warframe stuff, but  I also know to be careful because different peoples objections and feedback and then how DE addresses and what they take from that, can inform and shape future decisions and ideas. My example is obviously dramatic and won't happen, but Warframe is also a long running game, that is dramatically different now than it use to be. 

Like weapons having gimmicks, used to be relatively rare, but then a few of them starting becoming more popular, and you started to have more synergy with them too, then now days we have Kuva, Tenet, Prisma, Incarnon weapons, many have unique gimmicks. Even weapons like Cedo and Epitaph have interesting alt fires. We have weapons like Trumna, which in a way is a bit of a proto Incarnon, in that you kill enemies to get charge to get a powerful alt fire, but you can''t just spam the alt fire (well unless you are Zephyr), but the now can shape the future. 

Like DE will probably be extra careful when releasing the next few Warframes, and making sure they don't have to make too many changes after 5 days. Even if someone is fine with something, we want to be careful in that we still have preferences and likes/dislikes, and we want DE to consider that too. 

Hope that clarifies, cheers! 

[MetalMechabolic]

On 2024-04-05 at 5:51 PM, Aruquae said:

You're giving up on the librarian already?
Cmon now, I can hear him shushing furiously now

 

*Stands 10m away from the librarian, making sure he's between me and the camera*

What's that?  Can't hear you~!

Edited April 7 by MetalMechabolic
Edited for the new patch :^)

[ECCHOSIERRA]

6 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

This is just a joke post, but I'll use the words D, A, N, T, E so the mods will probably merge it too.

Anyway, Since the wizard is now as magical as a stage magician trying to perform in 2024, or Dumbledore trying to be useful in movies...I will be abandoning this frame.

Reading the patch notes was one thing and actually testing them was something else entirely...I didn't think these nerfs would be this bad because I play other LoS nuke frames...but this is something else.

Anyway, at least I have Lavos, and he's nerf proof because he has cooldowns, and DE looooves those right?

I can't be arsed to spend 200 more plat so...

Hey everybody, this is Prof-Lavos.

Im not gonna give dante a single iota of attention until i feel like theyve made up their minds on what to do with him.

 

That said. I just think its funny how rebecca made it out like they're taking one french fry out of the bag and then they choke slam him into the ground. 

 

Theres jokes to be made but i dont want to get in trouble

[_Eclips3_]

Don't blame her, she's not in charge of the changes.

[Waeleto]

3 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Don't blame her, she's not in charge of the changes.

No blaming here but i feel like the creative director probably knows what balance changes are being shipped out so she could've communicated better, She also said there was a dev blog about dante changes coming BEFORE the nerfs so we can have the dante discussion and give feedback and that dev blog never came out.

Clearly there is miscommunication here whether it's from DE to DE or from DE to Players.

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Don't blame her, she's not in charge of the changes.

She kind of is.

[Prof-Dante]

So Line of sight is a lot more broad and accurate which made 360° nuking much better with tragedy...this was a major problem as you had to be in melee range and directly looking at enemies in order to kill them with this ability.

And I wonder how much of a benefit A Tragedy that nukes through walls would be since you can't prime enemies behind walls with dot status effects 

The Overguard buff going from 2000 to 3000 is an welcome change, although it still has nothing to do with what we asked for...if you're going to allow allies to benefit from health damage with Overguard, when why are you still nerfing it?

Last but not least, The Page flighy revert coming next week, honestly it was hilarious how DE's excuse of removing status vulnerability from pageflight's own slash procs was an "unintended change"...

DE, as it seems are terrible, terrible liars

 

It doesn't really help that Wordwarden is kind of bad....maybe more testing needs to be done with it, but it's underwhelming so far.

This outrage reminded me of the Nidus nerfs when he first released, Virulence got a massive DPS nerf, his passive death protection nerfed from needing 10 stacks to needing 15 and I think other nerfs that I don't remember...but Nidus is still one of the strongest frames

 

Am I still mad at DE? Yes absolutely, they misled, and lied to us about These dante nerfs, and it was all a big mess that left a sour taste in my mouth...I don't think I've ever felt that way on The Railjack update.

I don't mean to offend anyone there, I know they're hard working people...but I believe we need someone, a dev who's a bit more patient and collective when it comes to balancing this game...

Edited April 7 by Prof-Dante

[Threa]

I haven't logged in since the initial nerf, and I'm trying my best to stay off the game until they fully revert or make things right. I have been reading through the feedback, and the general consensus of other players is that things still don't feel right.

The part that upsets me the most is the lies, and I feel that there is a sense of false advertising. I watched several videos by their content creators who all showed how fun and powerful Dante was, so I made the decision to buy his pack, then I had so much fun I purchased the Tennocon pack to show my support for designing an amazing Warframe. Then I purchased a much larger and more expensive platinum pack, again because I was having more fun than I have in the game for years, and I wanted to show them my support, and I wanted to build Dante and his entire loadout with as much power as possible. 

When I initially heard what Reb said in the devshort, I felt some anxiety, but I was starting to develop a high level of trust with her and the rest of the devs, so I decided to relax and wait, knowing that they would most likely make small changes after a few weeks have passed. However, things went so far in the other direction that this has eroded most of that trust, and even if they revert or fix things, I won't ever be able to trust them fully again. I'm not saying this to be melodramatic, although I will admit I've been posting strongly worded responses on here and on YT, etc., because I have been very angry. I am saying this because this entire situation was handled so poorly by them that I would only have myself to blame if I continued buying their new Warframe packs on release and poured my platinum, forma, and time into them without waiting to see if DE does any major or even kneejerk nerfs like this ever again. This entire incident erodes the trust between the player base and Digital Extremes and their Warframe content creators. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I think they are fine. I played with them since, to finish off some Nightwave, and they were still fine, and killing enemies on Steel Path, so on. That being said, I still think the changes, all of them were premature, unnecessary and more time and feedback should have been collected. I still think the changes should be reverted, to their original release state, heck even make him more powerful but keeping some of the small buffs, and then make the decision that he won't be touched for the next 3 months to collect more data, then to decide if changes will happen. 

So even though I think they are fine, even though I am fine with nerfs involved with balancing, these changes happened so quickly... I am a Warframe player that has pretty much everything, because I play so much, but unless you brought Dante with Plat/Money, or rushed the foundry, even if you earned his parts on release, you still had around 3 days of waiting, and then it also assumed you then played those two other days... I might be wrong, but if feels like they just quickly reacted to a lot of early feedback from some, that may have seemed like a majority at the time, but quickly turned into a minority a few days later... 

I also think it sets a negative precedent, because for the next few Warframe releases starting with Jade, people will think "they will either be mediocre, and redundant, or if they are powerful, and fun? They will be nerfed..." which like... isn't ideal. For transparency, I also say that as someone who is pretty satisfied and happy with most Warframe releases, including Qorvex, Dagath, Yareli... Only a certain Warframe that many could guess, I had apathy and pity for, and think they need attention and changes... Thing is, even though I am happy with Qorvex and Dagath, and Gyre etc and disagree with the people who say they are weak or have flaws (but of course such things are subjective anyway), its still actually cool to see Warframes releases that are considered powerful and fun, and seem well received by the community. Like obviously if he overtook Revenant, Volt and Wukong in usage stats in a months time... well obviously that would need to be addressed, but I don't think we necessarily have the data to suggest that. 

See this update prior to Dante and Nezha (and CC nerfs), was actually pretty well received and popular, it was actually a bit surprising how positive the community seemed. Such a random and hectic week after. 

That all also being said, I don't think anyone at DE lied, to me that suggests deliberate conscious thought and action to deceive. I don't think thats true or accurate. I'm also not mad or that negative over the situation either. I sympathise with those that are, but for me, its just not that personal. In another way, in a vacuum without context, its actually really great that DE heard early reactions and attempted to make adjustments to address peoples concerns... Except players and fans aren't a monolith or hive mind... trying to please us all is going to be tricky... Like there are some people who thought Dante was too strong but still disagreed with the nerfs, some people who think the nerfs were too much, some probably think he should be nerfed more, some think he is overpowered and thats a problem, and some who think he is over powered but that its fine, and some people whose suggestions and fixes and solutions to all this, seem way worse than anything DE would do... Another thing I have to remember is that DE can often act, really really slowly. Over stuff. Often, they might have a quick solution to a perceived problem... but the struggle and conflict that tends to blow up, is when that quick solution causes more conflict and drama that solves... because then, it creates a weird situation, where DE probably doesn't want to make things worst and just has days and days of changes and fixes... So they probably have to slow down and consider more things, discuss stuff internally, reassess more things... and instead of a quick fast change, switch to thinking about the solution they will offer in two weeks or a month. Consider situations like Regal Aya, Heirlooms, so on, where the quick solution created more issues, but regret was expressed and in Regal Aya case, a better solution ended up implemented, and with Heirlooms, its a bit more wait and see.. 

With this, we are already going to be getting some Chroma buffs and possibly other LOS buffs/fixes for other Warframes, so thats good, but yeah... So for myself I have learned to be patience over such things. So even if Dante isn't reverted, even if I think he should, I think he is fine, but also fine isn't necessarily great either, short term or long term. 

[ECCHOSIERRA]

1 hour ago, Prof-Dante said:

So Line of sight is a lot more broad and accurate which made 360° nuking much better with tragedy...this was a major problem as you had to be in melee range and directly looking at enemies in order to kill them with this ability.

And I wonder how much of a benefit A Tragedy that nukes through walls would be since you can't prime enemies behind walls with dot status effects 

The Overguard buff going from 2000 to 3000 is an welcome change, although it still has nothing to do with what we asked for...if you're going to allow allies to benefit from health damage with Overguard, when why are you still nerfing it?

Last but not least, The Page flighy revert coming next week, honestly it was hilarious how DE's excuse of removing status vulnerability from pageflight's own slash procs was an "unintended change"...

DE, as it seems are terrible, terrible liars

 

It doesn't really help that Wordwarden is kind of bad....maybe more testing needs to be done with it, but it's underwhelming so far.

This outrage reminded me of the Nidus nerfs when he first released, Virulence got a massive DPS nerf, his passive death protection nerfed from needing 10 stacks to needing 15 and I think other nerfs that I don't remember...but Nidus is still one of the strongest frames

 

Am I still mad at DE? Yes absolutely, they misled, and lied to us about These dante nerfs, and it was all a big mess that left a sour taste in my mouth...I don't think I've ever felt that way on The Railjack update.

I don't mean to offend anyone there, I know they're hard working people...but I believe we need someone, a dev who's a bit more patient and collective when it comes to balancing this game...

>nidus is still one of the strongest frames

 

Not imho. 

[GPrime96]

The new LoS fix has brought the Page Flight + Dark Verse + Tragedy back to be a good combo again, decent - ish kill speed but usable. The Overguard buff is something i was less interested in due to how Overguard is.

[WindShadow970]

1 hour ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

>nidus is still one of the strongest frames

 

Not imho.

In my opinion he is, but much like Loki what he does doesn't mesh with the current expectations of Warframe. Doesn't make him any less strong just a far less desirable option.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I was lucky and got to use Dante pre nerf, nerf, and post nerf.   

The main thing about the nerf to Triumph for me is not whatever Cap they wanna put on Overguard.   My issue with the nerf was how slow they made your OG accumulate.   You had to spam your ass off to get to 30k.   Post nerf they have made it accumulate a little faster but its still pretty slow in my opinion.  My Dante gets like 8k for a single triumph + whatever he generates through killing or whatever??  That's still like 3-4 triumphs to max out??  

When your taking damage and trying to heal back OG your going to get locked into a cycle.  I did that SP Lotus Alert with my Dante though and he survived ok'ish.  

The other thing they ruined in the nerf was Tragedy.  That was an OP Nuke originally lol.   The nerfed version was pretty horrible cuz they switched to LOS and it was broken so cant really blame them for that....  but Post Nerf...it still feels a little wonky.  Its never going to be like it was originally but I think its fair.   We all have this expectation of seeing the radar get wiped though lol.   (I am glad this is making them revamp LOS mechanics though,  that will help alot of frames!! )

--------

Light>Dark is one of my fav moves.  It gives squadmates a copy of your book(including the damage types it has on it).   When they attack, it attacks..  so my book was Magnetic but now its Radiation.   Thats not what I expect people to be using so it should help w/ priming enemies.  Anyways they buffed this ability so yay.   

Dark> Light is kind of annoying lol.  I'm not sure what exactly it does lol.   I try not to use it unless there's other annoying abilities being used..  But I always use it at least once because its fun to see lol.   I think the pages/birds are way to bright and visible...  maybe if they made them shadowy like void energy and darker it would be less annoying.

============

IMO they need to keep bringing Triumph back up to snuff,  then I think he will be in a good place.   I liked him.  Triumph and Light>Day made him feel like a great support frame which was really fun for me.   I stopped using him though after mastering him and the incarnums.   I was more interested in Inaros tweak and also I got side tracked into playing Khora lol.   

Edited April 7 by (PSN)AbBaNdOn_

[Lord_Chibi]

4 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

So Line of sight is a lot more broad and accurate which made 360° nuking much better with tragedy...this was a major problem as you had to be in melee range and directly looking at enemies in order to kill them with this ability.

And I wonder how much of a benefit A Tragedy that nukes through walls would be since you can't prime enemies behind walls with dot status effects 

The Overguard buff going from 2000 to 3000 is an welcome change, although it still has nothing to do with what we asked for...if you're going to allow allies to benefit from health damage with Overguard, when why are you still nerfing it?

Last but not least, The Page flighy revert coming next week, honestly it was hilarious how DE's excuse of removing status vulnerability from pageflight's own slash procs was an "unintended change"...

DE, as it seems are terrible, terrible liars

 

It doesn't really help that Wordwarden is kind of bad....maybe more testing needs to be done with it, but it's underwhelming so far.

This outrage reminded me of the Nidus nerfs when he first released, Virulence got a massive DPS nerf, his passive death protection nerfed from needing 10 stacks to needing 15 and I think other nerfs that I don't remember...but Nidus is still one of the strongest frames

 

Am I still mad at DE? Yes absolutely, they misled, and lied to us about These dante nerfs, and it was all a big mess that left a sour taste in my mouth...I don't think I've ever felt that way on The Railjack update.

I don't mean to offend anyone there, I know they're hard working people...but I believe we need someone, a dev who's a bit more patient and collective when it comes to balancing this game...

DE has technically lied before about changes.

 

Remember overguard and how it was only to affect cc before affecting Baruuk? Everyone freaked out so they reverted it. Remember who didn't ever get his change reverted? Sevagoth; he can't use his self revive attack on overguarded enemies. And to top it off, Inaros just got his self revive buffed, so it went from Sevagoth having the better one to Inaros having the better one just because there's enemies that'll shoot (the very squishy) Sevagoth to death while he can't even do anything to them...

Edited April 7 by Lord_Chibi