Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no

[Letter13]

It'd be nice to have it, for sure. I'd like to have it, but I also understand why DE probably won't ever do it (lots and lots of additional work, designing a bunch of 'new' frame models specifically). 

Anyone who says this is a bad idea 'because this frame isn't supposed to be male/female/nonbinary' is just being a silly little dude. Like, really. Sure, there might be some lore related arguments that could be made, such as the fact that Warframes are basically humans infested with Helminth, and therefore Warframes were at one point biologically male or female (or potentially intersex) which would explain male/female morphologies... however this doesn't really prevent having alternate morphologies of a certain frame type.

Take for example, if you have the Orokin mass producing Excalibur Warframes; you've got the genetic template for the human(s) to be Helminth'd, now, if you flip their 23rd chromosome from XY into an XX but keep everything else the same, you should have a biologically female human who, if Helminth'd, would become a female Excalibur (inb4 'but Nyx is female Excalibur!' No, no she isn't. Don't you dare compare my darling Nyx to that brute).

What I'm saying is that there's no real lore to preclude the existence of R63 Vauban. Cue Vauban ball related jokes.

But yeah. It'd be an absurd amount of work for the artists, modelers and animators to release alternate gendered frames, which is probably the reason we'll never get this. Which is a shame, but totally understandable.

 

Small end-rant:

Spoiler

Also, I just don't understand the people who try to pull the 'Keep your LGBTQ+ agenda out of this!' and 'You shouldn't bring politics into games!' cards as a reason for why we shouldn't have this. It's a monumentally stupid argument because there's nothing political or agenda driven for wanting something like this. Do these people also throw a conniption when an MMO or other sort of game lets them choose their gender/biological sex for the character they play as? Like... seriously, cease the mental gymnastics before you pull a mental muscle. Letting players choose what gender/biological sex their frame appears as isn't going to hurt you or diminish your experience in the game; it's not going to oppress you or violate you. Sheesh.

 

[Pakaku]

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

The human host lore doesn't contradict the creation of both male and female versions of frames. The opposite sex frame would just have a human of the opposite sex.

My speculation is that each Warframe we encounter is like a snapshot of a particular individual person with their own personality and experiences, and by being based on a person instead of just a suit you can put on to gain abilities, it doesn't leave a lot of room to have alternate sex/gender versions of that person.

I'm open to the idea of anyone being able to "wear" a Warframe and could easily see that being a thing back in the Orokin era when there were many Dax and other soldiers, but I think by the time we get to use our version of those Warframes, they always happen to be of one particular person

Edited April 18 by Pakaku

[TARINunit9]

On 2024-04-16 at 7:52 AM, arch111 said:

I hate to say it, because I can appreciate the effort, but I'm honestly not impressed. If this is all a genderswapped frame turns out to be, I don't feel any hype for it

I hope you keep modeling though, the result came out clean

[ECCHOSIERRA]

On 2024-04-16 at 10:05 AM, arch111 said:

I know all that. It depends on how you see it. The deluxes are obviously new frames entirely. And if they wanted to do this they would just make some addition to the lore and a reason for it to exist.

 

I am for it at the end of the day, I get not all are.

Im not "against it".

 

If DE turned around and released a gender option for every single frame next week id probably at least try it on some frames but.

It would have to look and feel at least mostly polished.. 

With all the skins and attachments syandanas etc that exist in the game

That just seems like so much work 

[arch111]

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I hate to say it, because I can appreciate the effort, but I'm honestly not impressed. If this is all a genderswapped frame turns out to be, I don't feel any hype for it

I hope you keep modeling though, the result came out clean

Good thing you are not impressed, this was a push, pull, inflate, deflate operation that took me 20 minutes or so to do. Now imagine what 1 few days work could turn into.

[arch111]

A clarification

 

This is in no way motivated by current day politics or the debate of genders and pronouns IRL.

This is purely looks.

 

I agree and understand it would require a dedicated small team, and I allso agree DE will never commit to it as long as they have grander and bigger things to worry about.

PvP, Framefighter, Lunaro and the arcade are a few examples of rescorces put into projects on the side of their main bulk of work.

 

Most who answer go to "It will be too much work" rather than the hypothetical:
DE says in a livestream they are rolling out masculine and femenine models for 4 warframes as a pilotproject to let the players test this out. If it takes off, they will do more, if not they will be a one-off thing that you only get if you absolutely want it.

 

To me this is a bit like Umbra. They say they will never do another one and I will allways want more. The reasons for not doing more Umbra are the same as for not creating a female Nekros.

They once said they would never make Valkyrs original skin. And once they did, the deluxes just kept on coming.

Edited April 18 by arch111
I can´t spell

[Sambhaid]

Im not a fan of this because imo gender is part of a frames identity. If this was added then frames would become even less distinguishable than they already are with all deluxe skins and armor sets 😬

[Cram_Duahcim]

 They realized early on that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

Not to mention the themes for Deluxe Skins are mostly based off the gender of the frame so, there's that. 

Edited April 18 by Cram_Duahcim

[arch111]

Maby Nyx who actually IS the twin of Excalibur is a better example of what a male/female option could have looked like.

[AzureTerra]

Meh.

While I do have a tendency to play female frames its more that they do what I find interesting / how they play over what they look like ~ they could be swapped or gender removed entirely and I'd still play what I like ~ a feminine figure isn't going to make me inclined to play the frames I dislike similarly

 

[Tuli_Donitsi]

It would be cool option although isn't necessary.

[arch111]

That what it would have been.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2024-04-17 at 11:57 PM, Letter13 said:

It'd be nice to have it, for sure. I'd like to have it, but I also understand why DE probably won't ever do it (lots and lots of additional work, designing a bunch of 'new' frame models specifically). 

Anyone who says this is a bad idea 'because this frame isn't supposed to be male/female/nonbinary' is just being a silly little dude. Like, really. Sure, there might be some lore related arguments that could be made, such as the fact that Warframes are basically humans infested with Helminth, and therefore Warframes were at one point biologically male or female (or potentially intersex) which would explain male/female morphologies... however this doesn't really prevent having alternate morphologies of a certain frame type.

Take for example, if you have the Orokin mass producing Excalibur Warframes; you've got the genetic template for the human(s) to be Helminth'd, now, if you flip their 23rd chromosome from XY into an XX but keep everything else the same, you should have a biologically female human who, if Helminth'd, would become a female Excalibur (inb4 'but Nyx is female Excalibur!' No, no she isn't. Don't you dare compare my darling Nyx to that brute).

What I'm saying is that there's no real lore to preclude the existence of R63 Vauban. Cue Vauban ball related jokes.

But yeah. It'd be an absurd amount of work for the artists, modelers and animators to release alternate gendered frames, which is probably the reason we'll never get this. Which is a shame, but totally understandable.

 

Small end-rant:

  Hide contents

Also, I just don't understand the people who try to pull the 'Keep your LGBTQ+ agenda out of this!' and 'You shouldn't bring politics into games!' cards as a reason for why we shouldn't have this. It's a monumentally stupid argument because there's nothing political or agenda driven for wanting something like this. Do these people also throw a conniption when an MMO or other sort of game lets them choose their gender/biological sex for the character they play as? Like... seriously, cease the mental gymnastics before you pull a mental muscle. Letting players choose what gender/biological sex their frame appears as isn't going to hurt you or diminish your experience in the game; it's not going to oppress you or violate you. Sheesh.

 

I would like to know how much work it would be if you looked at it from a deluxe skins point of view. Dont afew of those require whole new models as well?

Look at some of titanias for instance. 

(Is it the empress?) One that doesnt have the seperate waist wings and instead it looks like the backend of a dress?

At least from my uneducated mind. It had to have been alot of extra work.

So i just want to raise the question out of sheer curiosity how much extra it would be to genderbend a frame if you looked at it like its a new deluxe skin? :think:

For the sake of theorycrafting, we have finished male skeletons to work with. To recycle one of those for a genderbending frame then adding tweeks and frame specific attatchments such as titanias wings. Might be a swifter approach.

(If they decide to go for the classical titania wings and not something new 'empress' style)

(Correct me if im thinking of the wrong skin name)

[arch111]

1 hour ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

I would like to know how much work it would be if you looked at it from a deluxe skins point of view. Dont afew of those require whole new models as well?

Look at some of titanias for instance. 

(Is it the empress?) One that doesnt have the seperate waist wings and instead it looks like the backend of a dress?

At least from my uneducated mind. It had to have been alot of extra work.

So i just want to raise the question out of sheer curiosity how much extra it would be to genderbend a frame if you looked at it like its a new deluxe skin? :think:

For the sake of theorycrafting, we have finished male skeletons to work with. To recycle one of those for a genderbending frame then adding tweeks and frame specific attatchments such as titanias wings. Might be a swifter approach.

(If they decide to go for the classical titania wings and not something new 'empress' style)

(Correct me if im thinking of the wrong skin name)

A deluxe is a new frame entirely, mesh, textures, fx and  sometimes animation.

So yes, a gender-alternative would maby be even less work than that depending of course of how much such a frame would be altered. Better to make a new one of you are going to do it.

 

Warframes power lies in the shared skeleton, shared animations and shared cosmetics, though they often break and clip - but that´s games for you.

 

The big work lies in making sure all gear, weapons, syandanas, skins, helmets work with the new one. We all have some frame that just clips like hell with our fav armor or ephemera, that they just can´t fix.

[Letter13]

6 hours ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

I would like to know how much work it would be if you looked at it from a deluxe skins point of view. Dont afew of those require whole new models as well?

Look at some of titanias for instance. 

(Is it the empress?) One that doesnt have the seperate waist wings and instead it looks like the backend of a dress?

At least from my uneducated mind. It had to have been alot of extra work.

So i just want to raise the question out of sheer curiosity how much extra it would be to genderbend a frame if you looked at it like its a new deluxe skin? :think:

For the sake of theorycrafting, we have finished male skeletons to work with. To recycle one of those for a genderbending frame then adding tweeks and frame specific attatchments such as titanias wings. Might be a swifter approach.

(If they decide to go for the classical titania wings and not something new 'empress' style)

(Correct me if im thinking of the wrong skin name)

Deluxe skins are probably on par or more involved than what a R63'd frame would entail work wise... though the difference there is that DE is able sell the deluxe frames for revenue. If DE were to release R63'd frame models, they'd have to be free for players to select, otherwise the community would probably go thermonuclear.

It's a whole lot of tradeoffs that always see someone losing out...

 

If the artists stopped work on deluxe frames and other frame-related cosmetics to create a full set of R63'd frame models, then we'd probably see a cosmetic content draught while it was happening (ergo, bad for us)

If the R63'd frames are then released for free, then DE staff put in a good chunk of work to something that wouldn't generate measurable revenue (ergo, bad for DE)

If the R63'd frames are released for platinum, the work would generate revenue (good for DE) but would no doubt send the players thermonuclear with negative feedback (bad for us) which would in turn result in less money being spent from angry players (ultimately bad for DE).

 

So... yeah, it'd be nice if we got it, but from a business perspective and trying to maintain regular content drops, it doesn't make much sense.

[Greysmog]

I guess the only question I have is, if you're going to be spending that much time on making male and female versions of Warframes, why wouldn't you just make a new Warframe? 

The main issue that comes with this concept is just the benefit really. If someone really enjoys a Warframe, they'll play them regardless of their appearance, or just wait for a Deluxe skin. Fashionframe is real of course, but the amount of the community that actually cares about their Warframes gender is very slim.

If you go the simple route, it looks pretty bad and weird as Arim has shown. If you go the proper overhaul route, you're just wasting time you could be spending on making something new. The entire thing would appease like ... maybe a handful of players? What's the point if cosmetics are this game's main revenue source and you've just made it harder to pump them out as fast? It doesn't make any sense. 

The best you'd probably get is a one-off skin that just looks like the base Warframe, and I doubt anyone is scrambling for that.

[(PSN)Caerith]

I'm against it for one very simple reason:

You know it's a lot of work to make gender-swapped skins but you don't even put in the effort to come up with gender-swapped names.  "Male Saryn."  That's it?  If you're not even willing to put effort into your post, why expect DE to put effort into making these skins for you?

• Excalibernice
• Revenancy
• Daniellte

Anyway, that's 90% of the work.  Just slap some boobs on these frames and and wait for the platinum to roll in. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2024-04-17 at 10:57 PM, Letter13 said:

Spoiler

Also, I just don't understand the people who try to pull the 'Keep your LGBTQ+ agenda out of this!' and 'You shouldn't bring politics into games!' cards as a reason for why we shouldn't have this. It's a monumentally stupid argument because there's nothing political or agenda driven for wanting something like this. Do these people also throw a conniption when an MMO or other sort of game lets them choose their gender/biological sex for the character they play as? Like... seriously, cease the mental gymnastics before you pull a mental muscle. Letting players choose what gender/biological sex their frame appears as isn't going to hurt you or diminish your experience in the game; it's not going to oppress you or violate you. Sheesh.

While I do agree with you L13 (that is a cool nickname) it's sadly never going to end and porb get worse as the years go on since many game devs & movie devs seem to try to "force" this down people's necks as of late and now rather it is an actual wonderful choice for people who love this sort of thing.

It's turned into exactly what you said and that sucks 

(Gonna end this short since I don't want to detail the topic but further convos can be taken to DMs if you like)

 

On topic: I'd love something like this since I really want a Male Hildryn and a Female Grendel, tho a handful of frames I'd not mind having a G-Swap, heh maybe a Harrow or Ash Female (I promise this is for science!)

Edited April 20 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Caerith said:

Just slap some boobs on these frames and and wait for the platinum to roll in. 

As funny as it'll be to see how much Plat is generated for this sorta thing, I don't think it'll end well xD

[arch111]

Right. Names, De would make up some cool name or go with the allready extablished balance.

 

As for why put in all that work and should it be free or plat?

1. If free, Tennogen suddenly have oine more template to work from, wich can only be a good thing,.

2. If plat, that is the same thing as a deluxe yes. It would only make sense if pllayers would want it bad enough, and they only would if they looked absolutely badass.

 

My take is that free would be the best way, the release of them would be slow and maby even by popular vote.
Alot of us love Tennogen, and creators want more options all the time. I am sure this would lead to alot of creativity and frames impossible in the current state.

 

Finally, this will probably not be a thing untill DE deliberately make a kitbash-frame  like they talked about at PAX. That frame could have no restrictions, be genderless, and be a great testbed for this entire concept.

[Sziklamester]

For female Ash I would suggest the following ones - Ashe, Dusk, Arit, Shela. Long ago when this topic was much more active there was name suggestions aswell for frame names but some frames actually have a pair in different forms. Example is Oberon and Titania but these frames actually different in terms what they doing. Not necesarry to have the similar name for frames to make them unique and still paired with their gender variant. Ember for example could have Spark, Blaze, Flem as a male variant and still close to what Ember does. There are frames which trickier to name it but for appearance it is enough if at least 50-60% similar to what the said frame is. I think it is doable but not really think this could happen since this was a demand for 11 year at least. However DE is not known for their speed to implement things and before the Plains of Eidolon they shown a concept about the open world and few animals which happend later. (Still missing the plains Deer). 

 

For me it would be nice if the tennogen could be improved or a segment can get held there for warframe creations what you normally find on Artstation, Deviant art. Tons of concepts laying on the forums aswell with no sign they ever be used. I can hope but maybe better to stay realistic. Still I would want my female Ash to happen.

[arch111]

2 hours ago, Sziklamester said:

For female Ash I would suggest the following ones - Ashe, Dusk, Arit, Shela. Long ago when this topic was much more active there was name suggestions aswell for frame names but some frames actually have a pair in different forms. Example is Oberon and Titania but these frames actually different in terms what they doing. Not necesarry to have the similar name for frames to make them unique and still paired with their gender variant. Ember for example could have Spark, Blaze, Flem as a male variant and still close to what Ember does. There are frames which trickier to name it but for appearance it is enough if at least 50-60% similar to what the said frame is. I think it is doable but not really think this could happen since this was a demand for 11 year at least. However DE is not known for their speed to implement things and before the Plains of Eidolon they shown a concept about the open world and few animals which happend later. (Still missing the plains Deer). 

 

For me it would be nice if the tennogen could be improved or a segment can get held there for warframe creations what you normally find on Artstation, Deviant art. Tons of concepts laying on the forums aswell with no sign they ever be used. I can hope but maybe better to stay realistic. Still I would want my female Ash to happen.

You make good points. Realistic we get a bodytype-option any time soon? Not really.

For Tennogen it would make the most sense of course, I agree with you there. so many concepts and art that are just that, fanart.

Nyx has her Nemesis deluxe, that tries HARD to make her male and allmost gets there, but this is Dark sector-related.

 

One thing they could do is make the ones for Ember - male  and Ash - female, that was actually their origin at one point.
Call them Proto/Lost originals, Variants or something like this.

 

 

 

[-ShadowRadiance-]

14 hours ago, Letter13 said:

they'd have to be free for players to select, otherwise the community would probably go thermonuclear.

Well. Maybe its just me then but id have no problem buying it at a deluxe skins price cause thats what it is. 

To expect it for free.. to me its unthinkable. Sometimes i dont get ppl.

[Karyst]

On 2024-04-16 at 5:33 PM, PrideB4TheFall said:

Nice baiting thread you got here.

Don't ruin the fun so early

[Karyst]

I wanna be able to swap into a gunblade at will