Adding an anti-leave mechanism

[amaury10]

Hello,

I'd like to suggest a new feature. As always when a new prime come out, we see lots of people leaving mission in the 10 first seconds because nobody has the new relic. It makes playing such missions really painfull each time a new prime is released. And it's not fair regarding other players taking time to loot relic on Apolo...

May I suggest adding an anti-leave mechanism like, for exemple:

1 leave : 30'' of delay before lauching a new game (a crash can always happened and it may be unfair to punish such players)

2 leaves : 5' delay

3 leaves 15' delay and so on...

Reset the counter each time a mission is completed or failed.

 

Hopping I find an echo in the community and dev team.

Regards !

Edited May 2 by amaury10

[Circle_of_Psi]

Nope, not gonna happen

You are the same type of people asking for a "Vote Kick"

Edited May 2 by Circle_of_Psi

[FulfillMyWill]

I have a horrible ISP with frequent disconnects (can't switch, because they are de-facto a monopolist in my area). Let me suffer even more by adding this feature, right?

When a new prime comes out, lots of people go to recruiting and don't worry about leeches anyways.

Edited May 2 by FulfillMyWill

[Tiltskillet]

The solution I want is for relics to be hidden until they're cracked open the first time.  Except to oneself and  each member of a pre-made squad, where they're always visible.

Takes care of the problem without causing a lot of additional problems to people  who disconnect for other reasons.

[Pakaku]

You get what you "pay" for when it comes to random squads: a group of people who don't owe you any of their time and are not obligated to do what you want them to (obviously within reason like not AFKing or cheating) which includes being able to leave even if it inconveniences you

If you want more control over your squads, form one and decide what you want to do

Edited May 2 by Pakaku

[Tiltskillet]

18 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

You get what you "pay" for when it comes to random squads: a group of people who don't owe you any of their time and are not obligated to do what you want them to (obviously within reason like not AFKing or cheating) which includes being able to leave even if it inconveniences you

If you want more control over your squads, form one and decide what you want to do

While this will always be good advice, there's a very distinctive and unpleasant behavior in the random co-op experience in fissures for a week or two after prime releases.  If DE could cut this down without resorting to punishing mechanics like the OP proposes, I'd consider that an improvement to the game.

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, amaury10 said:

I'd like to suggest a new feature. As always when a new prime come out, we see lots of people leaving mission in the 10 first seconds because nobody has the new relic. It makes playing such missions really painfull each time a new prime is released

This is a free to play game and you will have normal distrubtion of various human behaviours. Any limits will not only not solve the problem of people being leeches, but will also potentially make the game more annoying for non-leeches annd possibly abused by distruptive players.

1 hour ago, amaury10 said:

And it's not fair regarding other players taking time to loot relic on Apolo...

Life is not fair, so is the game.

[Zakkhar]

52 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

The solution I want is for relics to be hidden until they're cracked open the first time.  Except to oneself and  each member of a pre-made squad, where they're always visible.

Better but not ideal and possibly problematic in a few scenarios (eg. you cannot see if people run "no relic" or you will not see if someone runs radiant, so you could prepare for the next round to return the favour).

Again applying condfitionals to the game under certain circumstances caused by normal human behaviour  in order to attempt to fight with the results of that behaviour, doesnt work very well in long term. Especially if it is more of a inconvenience or punishment. Reward system works pretty well. 

Edited May 2 by Zakkhar

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Better but not ideal and possibly problematic in a few scenarios (eg. you cannot see if people run "no relic" or you will not see if someone runs radiant, so you could prepare for the next round to return the favour).

One would still see these at the end of a round or mission when rewards are selected.  So these are drawbacks, but very small ones.  And the usual "random co-op is a free-for-all, recruit a squad if you want more control over the results" advice would still apply.

11 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Again applying condfitionals to the game under certain circumstances caused by normal human behaviour  in order to attempt to fight with the results of that behaviour, doesnt work very well in long term.

Eh, unforeseen consequences can be an issue, but I think it can work fine.   Especially when it's not too intrusive and there aren't that many negative consequences possible. If relics  had been hidden from randoms from the beginning, people wouldn't think anything of it for the most part.  And I'm pretty sure if it was introduced now we'd get very used to it very fast.

[Hobie-wan]

Absolutely not. Things happen sometimes, especially right now with the crossplay and occasional differences in load times dropping people unexpectedly.

If you want to crack specific relics and expect others to do so as well, use recruiting and form a squad. You can then make sure that everyone brings the right relic and refined as necessary. Watch as people accept and pick their relic just to make sure. If there is some person who tries to pull some crap at that point, abort and reinvite the people that were doing things correctly.

They'll probably wait the extra little bit to find a sensible 4th person and start again if you just make sure they know that someone else was being dumb. Anyone that isn't ok with it or doesn't want to go again might be frustrated that RNG isn't working out for them, or they were impatient and you can just not worry about them and move on.

[Joezone619]

This has to be one of the worst suggestions I've seen in a while. Vote kick, and punish systems like this has no place in a PvE game.

[Pakaku]

11 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

While this will always be good advice, there's a very distinctive and unpleasant behavior in the random co-op experience in fissures for a week or two after prime releases.  If DE could cut this down without resorting to punishing mechanics like the OP proposes, I'd consider that an improvement to the game.

When it comes to relics, I always argue that people leave because they can see what relics other players are running. If that info was hidden at the start of a fresh mission, people would be less likely to abandon the squad because they lack that info to know which squad to stay in or abandon. This would be irrelevant to players who leave for other reasons, or accidental disconnects, because hunting for relics in a new squad isn't their goal there

I'm not sure how to handle the relic screens between endless waves, though. Maybe get dangerous and have the player forfeit previous prime drops if they abandon the next round

Obviously you would still want to show the relics to people in a squad you've formed, but chances are you trust people in your personal squad to not abandon

Edited May 3 by Pakaku

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Pakaku said:

When it comes to relics, I always argue that people leave because they can see what relics other players are running. If that info was hidden at the start of a fresh mission, people would be less likely to abandon the squad because they lack that info to know which squad to stay in or abandon. This would be irrelevant to players who leave for other reasons, or accidental disconnects, because hunting for relics in a new squad isn't their goal there

I like the way you think!

1 hour ago, Pakaku said:

I'm not sure how to handle the relic screens between endless waves, though. Maybe get dangerous and have the player forfeit previous prime drops if they abandon the next round

I don't think it matters at that point.  It's only when people can pop in to and pop out of a pre-existing mission that the behavior comes into play.  After the first relics are cracked, no harm in having all the information out there.

[Hobie-wan]

20 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I'm not sure how to handle the relic screens between endless waves, though. Maybe get dangerous and have the player forfeit previous prime drops if they abandon the next round

Nah, that's no good. There are legitimate reasons to leave even if an endless was started, especially if the number of rounds wasn't discussed before starting. Most people only want to stay until they get the 1 piece they currently need. Sometimes life happens and people rightly want to go instead of being AFK. Maybe they weren't paying close attention and thought they had more relics. As long as people speak up in chat or make it obvious by choosing no relic without waiting until the last second, then it's fine. Finish and run again with a new person if needed.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Right, so, the proposed method by OP is genuinely not going to work as it punishes players the entire rest of the time when the problem is only in Relic farming, and only really prevalent in the release window and not so much after.

There is this suggestion:

On 2024-05-03 at 5:34 AM, Pakaku said:

When it comes to relics, I always argue that people leave because they can see what relics other players are running. If that info was hidden at the start of a fresh mission, people would be less likely to abandon the squad because they lack that info to know which squad to stay in or abandon. This would be irrelevant to players who leave for other reasons, or accidental disconnects, because hunting for relics in a new squad isn't their goal there

This is genuinely sensible. The logical problem here:

On 2024-05-03 at 5:34 AM, Pakaku said:

I'm not sure how to handle the relic screens between endless waves, though. Maybe get dangerous and have the player forfeit previous prime drops if they abandon the next round

Is that it isn't a problem.

Once the first relic screen happens, new players can't join, and it's the exact place for players that aren't happy with the round so far to leave. Rather than hide the relics from everyone else, the round of drops and the next pick should be first, so that the 'do you want to continue' screen comes afterwards, and leaving players can choose to leave.

That's what the end-of-round screen is for.

So the order of operations would be:

1. Round ends, whether on the timer or the actual end-of-wave.
2. Relic drops are shown and claimed.
3. New Relics are chosen and each player can see the other Relics chosen
4. End of wave 'do you want to extract' screen is displayed, even for Survival, and players that choose to extract have their chosen relic refunded and leave.
For Survival, they are given a timer to get to Extract and leave, where they can keep any extra resources they want to keep, or they are Extracted from their location and lose the resources from after the point they chose to extract.

There's a bonus thing that this would solve, too, which is a known problem with Host Migration, where a Host too suddenly extracting can prevent the remaining players from reconnecting to the new Host, so the timer count-down would also be preparing one of the other players to Host while maintaining connection to the Warframe Servers more closely to allow for better progress saving (so even if a player's internet kacked its pants, they would still keep their rewards when they were returned to the Orbiter).

That last bit is an outside chance, because usually people that leave on Relic hunts are those that join into another Host's game, but it's a good thing to have.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Options / Recruitement Chat => Make sure this is on. Look for "Radshare" / "LF/H> X Relic" messages.

Tired of pub squad randos leeching your stuff? Do radshares. Tired of people leaving your normal out of season relics? Do missions in voidstorms / steel path.

[amaury10]

Well, at least I made people talk 😁.

Hidding the relics until the end of the mission is a good suggestion : keeps the surprise.

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2024-05-03 at 4:49 AM, FulfillMyWill said:

I have a horrible ISP with frequent disconnects (can't switch, because they are de-facto a monopolist in my area). Let me suffer even more by adding this feature, right?

When a new prime comes out, lots of people go to recruiting and don't worry about leeches anyways.

Excellent someone else with a S#&$ty net connection..  I live on a farm in rural New Zealand and only have ADSL.. solo most times but in public if I get under 270 ping Im happy.. but then again I have no neighbors and can shoot my guns from my deck :)   real life is good. 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 2.5.2024 um 17:46 schrieb amaury10:

we see lots of people leaving mission in the 10 first seconds because nobody has the new relic.

are you sure? Because I almost always don't see any warframes, weapons or keys in the team overlay,...

I thought they "fixed" it like that...? but so that's just a bug???
because I was also surprised, because even outside of relics I often have this...