Taking ARCHON SHARD off should be free by now!

[Xylena_Lazarow]

5 hours ago, pinkxblack said:

how come still using BILE for punish players who equiped frames with old stones already!

Bile sucks. They deliberately chose the Bile resources from weird specific narrow corners of the game with little to no overlap, to make sure it accumulates super slowly during normal gameplay. Like sure you can go farm Argon Crystals or Thermal Sludge easily enough, but you're probably not getting anything else you care about while doing this, and definitely not any of the other resources that produce Bile.

End result, Bile is a chore that disrupts normal gameplay, maybe some players respond by getting a squad together to farm Javlok Capacitors, but a lot of players disengage because it's not worth the hassle once you have 5 red shards in your favorite S-tier frame. I get why DE did it this way, they want a long term grind that obligates farming new gear for every new frame, which is fine just... screw Bile. Change the requirement to any other Helminth resource and I bet players stop complaining real fast.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Xylena_Lazarow:

Bile sucks. They deliberately chose the Bile resources from weird specific narrow corners of the game with little to no overlap, to make sure it accumulates super slowly during normal gameplay. Like sure you can go farm Argon Crystals or Thermal Sludge easily enough, but you're probably not getting anything else you care about while doing this, and definitely not any of the other resources that produce Bile.

End result, Bile is a chore that disrupts normal gameplay, maybe some players respond by getting a squad together to farm Javlok Capacitors, but a lot of players disengage because it's not worth the hassle once you have 5 red shards in your favorite S-tier frame. I get why DE did it this way, they want a long term grind that obligates farming new gear for every new frame, which is fine just... screw Bile. Change the requirement to any other Helminth resource and I bet players stop complaining real fast.

That's definitely intentional. because those guys know exactly what they're doing.
So they deliberately chose resources where everyone gets frustrated while farming and gets "maximum motivation to buy a booster"...
So again a case where it's about pure real life cash milking...

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

So again a case where it's about pure real life cash milking...

The feedback ITT is that Bile is such a hassle that it's not even worth buying boosters or farming, it's encouraging players to disengage from the Shard system.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Xylena_Lazarow:

The feedback ITT is that Bile is such a hassle that it's not even worth buying boosters or farming, it's encouraging players to disengage from the Shard system.

Which shouldn't happen either... because there are too many warframes and enough things that I can't even try out.
The new 3 shards alone have a lot of scope and allow unique builds. I've only tried a few of them because I don't feel like this kind of slave farming at all...

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2024-05-06 at 4:44 PM, PublikDomain said:

Arcanes used to have a removal cost just like Shards.

B4 my time. Cost in WHAT? 

and question 2..

YOU PPL SWITCH ARCANES IN LOADOUTS!? (I change mine so rarely i wouldnt notice lol. Only like when i start over on a loadout from scratch which rarely happens)

[-ShadowRadiance-]

1 hour ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Argon Crystals or Thermal Sludge easily enough,

Add voidgel to the list of fast farms. 

10 thermal sludge per container on average on SP. On average i get 200 sludge in under 10 min as xaku doing a clean sweep of the airport.

2 gels on normal halako per drop ish. 5 min runs

Argon... is kinda the annoying kid in the room.. either you use them all or they argon.. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb -ShadowRadiance-:

B4 my time. Cost in WHAT? 

and question 2..

YOU PPL SWITCH ARCANES IN LOADOUTS!? (I change mine so rarely i wouldnt notice lol. Only like when i start over on a loadout from scratch which rarely happens)

I used swap to the relevant immunity arcanes with certain sortie conditions like rad hazard or magnetic enhancement back when i still ran that content.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

B4 my time. Cost in WHAT? 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Distiller

Arcane Distillers initially cost 100k syndicate standing, one-time use. Wanna move Energize from one helmet to another? That'll be 100k please.

Some time later it was reduced to only 50k standing, what a bargain! ← With the reduction of Bile from 50% to 30%, Shards are right about here

Then it could be reused but you still had to manage it through the S#&$ty menu.

And then finally it was retired completely when Arcanes were moved to the modding menu where they remain today.

1 hour ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

and question 2..

YOU PPL SWITCH ARCANES IN LOADOUTS!? (I change mine so rarely i wouldnt notice lol. Only like when i start over on a loadout from scratch which rarely happens)

I'll use different Arcanes in different configs, if that's what you're asking. For example my Tenet Plinx is shared between Yareli and Protea. My Protea build uses the crit-on-overshield Arcane. On Yareli she already gets a big crit buff as her passive and she can't generate overshields, so I use Deadhead. My Gorgon has a Toxin build with Blight and a Cold build with Frostbite.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb -ShadowRadiance-:

Add voidgel to the list of fast farms. 

10 thermal sludge per container on average on SP. On average i get 200 sludge in under 10 min as xaku doing a clean sweep of the airport.

2 gels on normal halako per drop ish. 5 min runs

Argon... is kinda the annoying kid in the room.. either you use them all or they argon.. 

actually that's how it works. I think old accounts would just wait for booster. log in daily etc.
and then collect enough with loot warframe.

Still, it's no fun because it's just too costly

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, CephalonOlphus said:

which by that point farming bile is tedious but shouldn't be this much of a problem

The tediousness is the problem with it. It means you are required to run quite a few specific locations that are well out of the way from what would be shard-worthy endgame content. It would be less of a problem if these materials came from content you would potentially frequent as endgame activities where you actually get a real value out of the shards.

There is for instance little reason out of an endgame perspective to do missions that provide morphics except for the material being a bile resource. Same goes for Argon farming in the void and so on. Now if DE added a good chunk of bile resources in the latest content it wouldnt be a problem, since people would get these resources as they farm for the most recent things aswell. It would also be great if there was a universal bile resources simply tied to fissures, which is something we do at all possible levels and difficulties really.

Or DE could give us more resource options for unbinding, like a 10/10/10 or 5/5/5/5/5/5 spread. So we can go more places and get the needed mats more passively as we just play the game in the places we need.

[PrideB4TheFall]

When you sit in the chair... (Aside from cyst popping) You are there to pay in resources. How can anyone with 100+ hours be surprised by this?

I have pulled many shards to combine, alter them, and move to other frames. I think it's fun. 

I also run a rather large ( and well decorated ) dojo at "shadow" rank. Do you? Any idea what the cost and resources are just to place 1 tree?

 

Play the hand you dealt yourself. (installing the game)

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The tediousness is the problem with it. It means you are required to run quite a few specific locations that are well out of the way from what would be shard-worthy endgame content. It would be less of a problem if these materials came from content you would potentially frequent as endgame activities where you actually get a real value out of the shards.

There is for instance little reason out of an endgame perspective to do missions that provide morphics except for the material being a bile resource. Same goes for Argon farming in the void and so on. Now if DE added a good chunk of bile resources in the latest content it wouldnt be a problem, since people would get these resources as they farm for the most recent things aswell. It would also be great if there was a universal bile resources simply tied to fissures, which is something we do at all possible levels and difficulties really.

Or DE could give us more resource options for unbinding, like a 10/10/10 or 5/5/5/5/5/5 spread. So we can go more places and get the needed mats more passively as we just play the game in the places we need.

Why should they though? This issue is not as catastrophically alarming as people are making it out to be. DE greatly increased the amount of shards that can be earned per week and, unless these players decided to just blast through the content as quickly as possible and never bothered to gather resources along the way, there's no reason why bile should be an issue.

Now that I'm really thinking about this, what the heck are you guys really doing that requires a change? You can remove 3 shards per bile refill. Are you really shuffling so much that you are running out of resources this quickly? If so, then I 100% think bile should stay as a resource sink and force you to stop and replenish your stockpiles. It sounds more like obsessive tinkering, does it not? 

[PublikDomain]

43 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Why should they though?

Because if it's supposed to be a resource sink maybe it'd be good to sink more than just Nav Coordinates? Or are you guys really feeding Helminth Argon Crystals and Enigma Gyrums? Is DE really at their office sweating trying to figure out how to get me to spend these?

Plus it'd be less annoying.

Plenty of reasons to change the costs. Plenty of reasons to reduce it (they've already reduced it once) or even remove it outright (just like they did for Arcanes).

What there isn't? A good reason to keep it. You say it yourself: it's not that big of a deal.

49 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

This issue is not as catastrophically alarming as people are making it out to be.

Which means addressing it is also not as catastrophically alarming as people are making it out to be either. Why argue so persistently for the preservation of an annoying resource sink that doesn't even sink resources?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Because if it's supposed to be a resource sink maybe it'd be good to sink more than just Nav Coordinates? Or are you guys really feeding Helminth Argon Crystals and Enigma Gyrums? Is DE really at their office sweating trying to figure out how to get me to spend these?

Plus it'd be less annoying.

Plenty of reasons to change the costs. Plenty of reasons to reduce it (they've already reduced it once) or even remove it outright (just like they did for Arcanes).

What there isn't? A good reason to keep it. You say it yourself: it's not that big of a deal.

Which means addressing it is also not as catastrophically alarming as people are making it out to be either. Why argue so persistently for the preservation of an annoying resource sink that doesn't even sink resources?

Because it doesn't "annoy" everyone and, while I do understand your argument, my argument is why add it to the devs' list when there is nothing wrong with the system except that it annoys some people? We both agree it's not that big of a deal, so why bother to ask for the hours to be allocated and the work to be put in? Basically, anything trivial should be marked but placed in the "only when the workload is small" section. 

The other point still stands though: if the removal is primarily to satisfy players who obsessively add and remove shards, then I am against the idea. Those players need to think it through before making costly moves. It also keeps the "big power" feel to the shards. 

[PublikDomain]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

We both agree it's not that big of a deal, so why bother to ask for the hours to be allocated and the work to be put in?

We don't agree. I think it is a big deal (it's super annoying and it turns me off from engaging with the system), you're just refusing to accept that for some of us it really is. But if you think it's not a big deal, then why not at least act like it? It's a big deal for us, it's not a big deal for you, so what's the big deal? It's not about you, lol.

21 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Because it doesn't "annoy" everyone and, while I do understand your argument, my argument is why add it to the devs' list when there is nothing wrong with the system except that it annoys some people?

Because being annoying is more than enough of a reason. Not every change needs to be for everyone. If someone isn't annoyed by Bile costs, so what? Other people are. And they're allowed to put things on the devs' lists just as much as you are with whatever issues you find annoying.

Why add it to devs' lists? Because we play the game too!

21 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The other point still stands though: if the removal is primarily to satisfy players who obsessively add and remove shards, then I am against the idea. Those players need to think it through before making costly moves. It also keeps the "big power" feel to the shards. 

Nonsense. What you call "obsessively adding and removing Shards" the rest of us just call "making fun builds and experimenting". And in a game all about making builds and experimenting, what shouldn't be discouraged...?

Nevermind that - again - Arcanes are the exact same "big power" "meant for endgame players" items that were just as costly to remove with all the same "you should have to think about it" arguments made against improving that system, and look what happened? The people who said such out-of-touch things in the past were wrong. The people that said that initial Tau drop rates were fine and didn't need any changes were wrong. The people that argued so passionately against Shard fusion were wrong. The people who said 50% Bile was fine were wrong. We've been through this over and over and over again and y'all are always wrong!

Edited May 10 by PublikDomain

[Xylena_Lazarow]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

If someone isn't annoyed by Bile costs, so what? Other people are.

Replace the 30% Bile cost with 100% Synthetics or Oxides. It still costs resources, technically more of them, but I bet a lot of players would be much happier.

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Replace the 30% Bile cost with 100% Synthetics or Oxides. It still costs resources, technically more of them, but I bet a lot of players would be much happier.

What I'd like is a different costs varying with shard type or frame.  The latter is appealing to me since it's easier to distribute 7 secretion costs among so many frames (rather than a mere 6 shard types) and most of the work is already done if the types/proportions are modeled after the subsume or injection costs that already exist for each frame.

If DE sees value in the resource sink, at least spread the resources around.  It could be be more than 30% total, and still be easier to deal with than 30% bile, and only bile.  Make shards easier to move and it will be a more effective sink.

[pinkxblack]

21小时前 , Xylena_Lazarow 说:

Bile sucks. They deliberately chose the Bile resources from weird specific narrow corners of the game with little to no overlap, to make sure it accumulates super slowly during normal gameplay. Like sure you can go farm Argon Crystals or Thermal Sludge easily enough, but you're probably not getting anything else you care about while doing this, and definitely not any of the other resources that produce Bile.

End result, Bile is a chore that disrupts normal gameplay, maybe some players respond by getting a squad together to farm Javlok Capacitors, but a lot of players disengage because it's not worth the hassle once you have 5 red shards in your favorite S-tier frame. I get why DE did it this way, they want a long term grind that obligates farming new gear for every new frame, which is fine just... screw Bile. Change the requirement to any other Helminth resource and I bet players stop complaining real fast.

tell me about it! and someone (yeah that one you know who) called thats not PUNISH, i could give him another word TORTURE.

farming STELAS is a positive way for the new mechanics you can say that, but this (finding the most rarest resources for BILE) is a absolutely negative way that only makes players hate this freaking game, what kinda jerk would say its a good job right!

Edited May 11 by pinkxblack

[(PSN)MYKK678]

So 5 pages and nobody has caught on. That's disappointing.

For clarity on the newest "let's drag this thread out" topic, Bile is difficult and costs so much intentionally. So that you think. So you use your head before you make a kneejerk decision to pile shards into one frame or one stat.

The only, genuinely only, time the game kinda screwed people over with this was with Dante and his Nerfs. As he dives to the bottom of the usage list most folks now have to remove shards from him. It sucks, but that's one instance since this launched. A single example. That doesn't warrant a change. Unless 1 flat tyre now means you need to burn your car.

The resource list gets updated when it can. As far as I recall it has been twice already. If work on content was delayed on order to sort out a new updated list, half the folks in here would switch from "change bile" to "where's my content" in the blink of an eye. And as for "having to go out of your way to get Bile resources", this isn't No Man's Sky, you don't have to fly from Planet to Planet, you pop a menu and select what you want. Nobody is buying the overdramatization.

This won't be changing due to one event, so I'd advise folks to start planning out where they want shards instead of just "winging it" and then blaming the game for their own bad choices.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Why should they though? This issue is not as catastrophically alarming as people are making it out to be. DE greatly increased the amount of shards that can be earned per week and, unless these players decided to just blast through the content as quickly as possible and never bothered to gather resources along the way, there's no reason why bile should be an issue.

Now that I'm really thinking about this, what the heck are you guys really doing that requires a change? You can remove 3 shards per bile refill. Are you really shuffling so much that you are running out of resources this quickly? If so, then I 100% think bile should stay as a resource sink and force you to stop and replenish your stockpiles. It sounds more like obsessive tinkering, does it not? 

The amount of shards doesnt matter whatsoever since we can only invest 5 in a single frame.

This is a matter of experimenting and/or wanting to actually use different builds on a single frame rather frequently. Which becomes massively problematic due to unbind costs tied to shards and rooted in bile as the resource. It isnt exactly uncommon to have a single frame that fills atleast 3 roles or uses 3 different playstyles effectively. The shard system does however not support that at all.

I could easily see myself having different shard setup soley based on the skills used in the config. While I might run a 5 red strength shard setup for a config with Roar I might want duration or something else when running Nourish or Eclipse. My melee config might want extra crit damage specifically for melee, which is completely wasted in my ranged or caster build on a frame. Or just on my Hildryn, where I have a negative and a positive duration build for instance, meaning I cannot use shards that fit both.

DE said from the start this was going to be a system where you think about which frame you wanna invest in. Which isnt the case, since it specifically hinders multiple builds on a single frame, so more properly they should have said it is a system where you should really think about which specific build you want to utilize on a single frame.

I think @PublikDomainhas a great idea in this thread. Allow us to stock up more shards on a frame so we can interchange which shards are active as we want, either manually or saved to individual configs. But we dont even have that, which would be a fundamental no-brain system to have from the get go as part of the system overall.

And I wanna say this. I'd love to go back and play my ranged and caster Kullervo off and on, but there aint no #*!%ing way in Hel I'll spend 300% bile just to reconfigure my Kullervo for a while and then back again.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

I'd advise folks to start planning out where they want shards instead of just "winging it" and then blaming the game for their own bad choices.

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE said from the start this was going to be a system where you think about which frame you wanna invest in.

I have no problem planning out my builds, but if you want a Shard arrangement that doesn't fall flat when you change gear or walk into a different type of mission, you're heavily incentivized to go for the same generic meta on everything. Reds for strength or duration, maybe one yellow for cast speed, maybe the two green for armor strip. That's it, don't waste time thinking about niche builds or experimenting, especially not when the expensive fused Shards are even more niche, just stick to the meta.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

think @PublikDomainhas a great idea in this thread. Allow us to stock up more shards on a frame so we can interchange which shards are active as we want, either manually or saved to individual configs. But we dont even have that, which would be a fundamental no-brain system to have from the get go as part of the system overall.

When Sneaky and I openly agree on something you know it's a good idea. That or the sun's about to implode.

Quote

"Extreme" G5 geomagnetic storm reaches Earth, NOAA says, following "unusual" solar event

Ah, nuts.

44 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

I have no problem planning out my builds, but if you want a Shard arrangement that doesn't fall flat when you change gear or walk into a different type of mission, you're heavily incentivized to go for the same generic meta on everything. Reds for strength or duration, maybe one yellow for cast speed, maybe the two green for armor strip. That's it, don't waste time thinking about niche builds or experimenting, especially not when the expensive fused Shards are even more niche, just stick to the meta.

Ugh, I felt like working on my Ivara yesterday. Crafted and added a purple Shard, the first time I've used one, went to test it out, found it wasn't what I wanted, had to pay to take it out and replace it with the Armor that was there before. YoU sHouLd HaVe kNowN. Every time I touch Shards and try something different it bites me.

Which reminds me - we have a way to fuse Shards together into a Tau or Coalescent. We still need a way to break them back down.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

I have no problem planning out my builds, but if you want a Shard arrangement that doesn't fall flat when you change gear or walk into a different type of mission, you're heavily incentivized to go for the same generic meta on everything. Reds for strength or duration, maybe one yellow for cast speed, maybe the two green for armor strip. That's it, don't waste time thinking about niche builds or experimenting, especially not when the expensive fused Shards are even more niche, just stick to the meta.

I must have missed that somehow. Because my Ivara has yellow shards to increase Parkour Velocity to speed up her Stealth Gameplay, my Valkyr uses reds for Melee Crit, and I haven't had a need for 1 single green shard so far. How were so many people affected by this but apparently I alone wasn't?

Or can we just admit right now that theory is more overdramatization and factually incorrect?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PSN)MYKK678:

theory is more overdramatization and factually incorrect?

That way you can sample everything. and it is very unfairly insulting because such a tone is very disrespectful.

However, the fact is that this problem does exist. and a solution has to be found. Especially given the number of options, this nonsense with Helmith costs is absolutely wrong!

[(PSN)MYKK678]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

That way you can sample everything. and it is very unfairly insulting because such a tone is very disrespectful.

However, the fact is that this problem does exist. and a solution has to be found. Especially given the number of options, this nonsense with Helmith costs is absolutely wrong!

More disrespectful than trying to portray a half baked opinion as a fact, essentially lying to someone's face? Nope.

And the fix exists. Stop and think. That's it. It's already been fairly clearly explained that there has only ever been one instance where changes to the game have almost forced players to have to remove shards. Everything else after that is caused by player choices. If you or anyone else is removing and switching shards every week, you're doing something very, very wrong. Because it being a weekly occurance is the only reasonable way this is a "problem", and no matter how fancy a bow you tie around your reasoning, it still circles back to "well you chose to do this". The cost of removing them has never been hidden.

Edited May 11 by (PSN)MYKK678
.