Jade Shadows Discussion

[Cram_Duahcim]

I'm also thinking the implementation of this quest before WF1999 is also very compelling.

The next cinematic quest will involve time travel. Now this is purely speculation on my part but with the introduction of Sirius/Orion here is what I'm speculating could happen:

DE is setting up a Time Jump. When we return from WF1999 we could be returning at a future point from where we left. This quest could turn Stalker into a "Guardian" of sorts for the Orgin System during this time that we've been gone.

He's going to have the motivation to do it, to protect Sirius/Orion. We could return at a point in time when Sirius/Orion could be an "Adult" and be introduced as a new "main character"

And Stalker will have gone through what I said in my last post: Undergone an overhaul and have an entirely new ability set and appearance other then being an Excalibur with a different (and awesome) helmet.

Edited June 20 by Cram_Duahcim

[Loza03]

57 minutes ago, Raziel589 said:

Jade Light was a thing before Warframes.

Jade probably only got the powers because Ballas found the wordplay amusing.. That, and turning a 'bringer of life' into an executioner feels like something spiteful he'd do.

[Keithy55]

7 minutes ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

I'm also thinking the implementation of this quest before WF1999 is also very compelling.

The next cinematic quest will involve time travel. Now this is purely speculation on my part but with the introduction of Sirius/Orion here is what I'm speculating could happen:

DE is setting up a Time Jump. When we return from WF1999 we could be returning at a future point from where we left. This quest could turn Stalker into a "Guardian" of sorts for the Orgin System during this time that we've been gone.

He's going to have the motivation to do it, to protect Sirius/Orion. We could return at a point in time when Sirius/Orion could be an "Adult" and be introduced as a new "main character"

And Stalker will have gone through what I said in my last post: Undergone an overhaul and have an entirely new ability set and appearance other then being an Excalibur with a different (and awesome) helmet.

Very compelling theory actually, Sirius/Orion does feel like the key to WF1999. Both Albrecht and Loid talked about executing the rest of the Kalymos Sequence only when the time is right, what if the birth of Sirius/Orion and the Green Lantern Stalker is that right time?

On that note, Parvos could be the new antagonist after Ballas, especially with his involvements with the recent story (Dante & Jade, maybe Protea Prime). His temporal tech might, for good or for bad, be the key for travelling back to 1999.

[PrideB4TheFall]

Well it seems DE has opened a big topic.

Spoiler

(Mommy Warframes) > Infant warframes:

Birth indicates growth. Arguably, helminth growth.

Growth indicates age.

Age indicates possible lifespan.

Lifespan indicates the possibility of mortality. 

I wish I could remember who said this: "If something was born it cannot be immortal, if it is immortal it always was."

I honestly hope that this expansion isn't just a standalone. I'd like it to be be better spelt out as in: How, when, why? Is this the first occurrence in lore, or has this happened before? 

[0bsi]

8 hours ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

He's basically Umbra. The quest implies that they were turned into warframes as a form of punishment. And this isn't the first time the game has shown Ballas do this. (I think this is actually the 3rd frame to be created this was (Dagath, Jade, Umbra). I'd say Stalker is #4.

Which makes Ballas all the more sinister, putting Jade through that.

With you logic you would also imply that Jade isn't a warframe, yet she is. 

So Stalker is too. And just like Umbra, can be tamed. 

It seems Stalker is like Umbra - but it's possible that we'll find out he's something slightly different again - we don't know.

We're also only assuming Jade was a normal warframe (like the ones we normally have, without sentience or "non-tenno" however you want to describe it) - but it's possible she had retained some sentience, like Umbra etc. but by the time we see her in the quest she's too weak to do anything but lay there dying -- especially given it seemed to be done as a punishment.

It's a shame the quest was nowhere near long enough to properly explore these things.

[Marvelous_A]

I think Umbra would have been a very compelling support character in Jade's Shadow especially in the last escape scene.

Umbra was a father who lost his son (by his own hands no less) and he could fight for a father who in turn fights to protect his son. 

The current plot is OK I guess but I don't like how Stalker survived because of a merciful enemy. I get what they're trying to do there but both Stalker and Corpus were out of character. 

Edited June 21 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb 0bsi:

It seems Stalker is like Umbra - but it's possible that we'll find out he's something slightly different again - we don't know.

We're also only assuming Jade was a normal warframe (like the ones we normally have, without sentience or "non-tenno" however you want to describe it) - but it's possible she had retained some sentience, like Umbra etc. but by the time we see her in the quest she's too weak to do anything but lay there dying -- especially given it seemed to be done as a punishment.

It's a shame the quest was nowhere near long enough to properly explore these things.

That's what I like about the game, the doors are now open and future additions could tell us more. Just gotta wait 😅 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Marvelous_A:

 

The current plot is OK I guess but I don't like how Stalker survived because of a merciful enemy. 

Maybe the enemy was as shocked as this community when they saw what was possible with Warframes. Who knows, we'll see! 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

But only the Z-kid's version of all this deals +50% damage to Sentients. So even if Oberon is using the Void as a power source, his *powers* don't count as Void, just tech

No that isnt true at all. That is what un-warped void does, which applies just the same to the frames. The Void allows the frames and operators materialize what they need and doesnt always result in pure Void. Gara uses it to materialize crystal glass out of thin air, Inaros materializes sand, Ember materializes fire, Xaku unleashes the pure void itself, Frost materializes ice, the operator can materialize it as anything from pure void or elements, aswell as kinetic energy or viruses, acids and magnetism, just like the void.

It all comes down to if they have the conduits to do it or not. Something that forces it to materialize a specific way. So in Oberons case, he materializes it into radiation and growths, aswell as allowing it to have its regenarative effects, just as the operator can. And some frames uses it more as simple energy, while most uses it as a mix. Like Nidus using it to power the frame to use the infestation growths, or Titania that uses it both to manipulate things (levetating enemies) and as energy that allows her to shift her size and density and maintain it.

Then just a general thought unrelated to this but regarding Jade, Stalker and frames overall. Many people think Jade and Stalker were some punishments. To me, with more and more OG frame lore released it seems more like what decides how a frame turns out is based on the personality of the host. There is probably a foundation of what their purpose is, but how they appear probably come from within.

Kullervo for instance. He is shaped as something based on the mind of a potential traitor and murderer. Knives literally inserted into his body and so on.

Jade. 

Spoiler

A woman in love. And a woman with motherly instincts and potentially also knowing she's pregnant (if it is the pregnancy they dont want their overlords to know about and not just the relationship). A morph based on her personality and subconscious would be quite logical to take the shape it did. 

Stalker. A low guardian as we know from both before and confirmed now aswell through the quest aswell as the operation chest piece. Something simple, mundane, just the way Stalker looks. I dont really buy the punishment thing, nor do I see why people wonder why Stalker stayed loyal when the Orokin "did what they did to his woman". He was loyal to the Orokin because he wanted to protect what family he had, and by being loyal he would do as expected and what is demanded from someone in his position within the empire. Just as soldiers in questionable wars follow their leaders, since it atleasts keep their family safe when they show loyalty and professionalism.

Then that this loyalty stuck and that he hates the tenno isnt that strange either. Because as we know, people that were turned to frames had a potential to be driven mad, insane, crazy or whatever. His transformation likely took it to a point where that loyalty and sense of duty grew, even if it could have also given him a chance to act while keeping his family safe. Potentially he didnt really recall that his family was the reason for his loyalty, so anger towards the tenno when they killed that which he guarded due to loyalty wouldnt be strange. If he recalled his reasons back then the hatred might have instead resulted in gratitude, since he would no longer need to be loyal to something he might have questioned, since his family would have been safe with the removal of the ruling elite.

We cant forget that Jade Shadows and Stalker getting to know what he knows doesnt occur until thousands of years later. Things he might have known way back then but were forgotten in his transformation due to a scrambled mind. While the beast raging in the Rhino entry is one form of this insanity, we also see it take a different shape in other tales. So since Stalker acted as intended, he was never taken out of service and he was never connected to a tenno. Instead his broken mind is what kept him loyal.

[Cram_Duahcim]

Has anyone found the Easter-Egg that can only be found when playing as Stalker?

Rebb did an interview and apparently one is in game:

Ford: I wish! The quest is played from the Stalker’s point of view. He’ll still be visiting you in Duviri as a playable character if you have that unlocked. There is an Easter egg in the event that you can discover by playing as Stalker, but he’s not going to be available as a full frame after this quest.

Anyone find this yet?

[Loza03]

21 hours ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

Well it seems DE has opened a big topic.

  Hide contents

(Mommy Warframes) > Infant warframes:

Birth indicates growth. Arguably, helminth growth.

Growth indicates age.

Age indicates possible lifespan.

Lifespan indicates the possibility of mortality. 

I wish I could remember who said this: "If something was born it cannot be immortal, if it is immortal it always was."

I honestly hope that this expansion isn't just a standalone. I'd like it to be be better spelt out as in: How, when, why? Is this the first occurrence in lore, or has this happened before? 

Spoiler

Whoever said that mixed up the definitions of eternity and immortality.

Eternity, and by extension to be eternal, means an infinite amount of time with no beginning and no end (because infinity isn't a number). That matches the definition put forward by your quote - to paraphrase, 'if something has a beginning, it cannot be eternal, because if it is eternal it always was.' 

Immortality means that you cannot die, with various grades. Relevantly to the topic, it is possible to have a creature that does not suffer from senescence, meaning it has a biologically indefinite lifespan, but that is born and ages up to full maturity. As a matter of fact, it exists in nature in several places - such as certain immortal cancer cells, 'Hydras' (not as cool as they sound), certain jellyfish and Lobsters (Although they die from exhaustion due to increased energy expenditure because they get larger every time they molt, and thus have more shell to molt, which takes more energy, which they can't biologically provide).

 

It is perfectly possible for Stalker's kid to be biologically immortal despite being a baby and presumably age into physical maturity.

 

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No that isnt true at all. That is what un-warped void does, which applies just the same to the frames. The Void allows the frames and operators materialize what they need and doesnt always result in pure Void. Gara uses it to materialize crystal glass out of thin air, Inaros materializes sand, Ember materializes fire, Xaku unleashes the pure void itself, Frost materializes ice, the operator can materialize it as anything from pure void or elements, aswell as kinetic energy or viruses, acids and magnetism, just like the void.

This would be actively counterproductive if it was true. 

Playable Warframes were created to kill Sentients first and foremost, and then police the solar system on their downtime. Ballas says this right to the camera in the Sacrifice quest: murdering Sentients is the top priority.

So why, oh why, would your theory ever be true? Your theory states the Orokin actively filtered Void energy OUT of their weapons in a stage of war they needed as much Void energy as possible. Counterproductive 

No, it seems very obvious to me that Warframe powers are all just tech-based, NOT Void-based. If the Orokin could have made Oberon and Mag and Volt fart out Void energy, they would have done that

Lemme just to another example: the Myrmidon. This thing was a pseudo-Warframe weapon thing that Ballas could use pseudo-transference on. It shows up in Ivara's backstory, and it has a very important weapon: a Jade Light cannon. It's not using the Void, it can just shoot Jade Light out of a small gun on its wrist. Because it's a piece of tech

Jade the Warframe has Jade Light weaponry. Just pieces of tech

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This would be actively counterproductive if it was true. 

Playable Warframes were created to kill Sentients first and foremost, and then police the solar system on their downtime. Ballas says this right to the camera in the Sacrifice quest: murdering Sentients is the top priority.

So why, oh why, would your theory ever be true? Your theory states the Orokin actively filtered Void energy OUT of their weapons in a stage of war they needed as much Void energy as possible. Counterproductive 

No, it seems very obvious to me that Warframe powers are all just tech-based, NOT Void-based. If the Orokin could have made Oberon and Mag and Volt fart out Void energy, they would have done that

Lemme just to another example: the Myrmidon. This thing was a pseudo-Warframe weapon thing that Ballas could use pseudo-transference on. It shows up in Ivara's backstory, and it has a very important weapon: a Jade Light cannon. It's not using the Void, it can just shoot Jade Light out of a small gun on its wrist. Because it's a piece of tech

Jade the Warframe has Jade Light weaponry. Just pieces of tech

How? You already made up things about the void. It doesnt and has never dealt more damage to sentients, it resets their resistances, but the whole idea with the frames was to kill sentients by not having them adapt to the mundane of the Warframes. The void as a damage source has only ever been negative towards something or most recently neutral towards everything aside from OG which it dealt 50% extra damage against.

So the Orokin cutting out the raw void would be most productive, since it would allow a combined potential for squaded frames. And in the process making it as little tech related as possible in order for it to not get scrambled and so on by the sentients, which was the main issue for the Orokin. So powering everything with the void would be the smart solution, since it is something the sentients would never be able to use against the Orokin.

And what on earth does the Myrmidon have to do with anything? It is just an extremely advanced weapon to test the potential of the frames (and potentially the Dax?). That it carries a highly advanced non-void weapon doesnt matter. There is also nothing that states that Jade uses "normal" Jade Light, since it, aswell as everything else, can be powered by and manifested through the void conduits on the frame. And you going by the Ivara story should also tell you clearly that it isnt just tech in the frame, since the story quite clearly tells how Ivara summons her bow.

Plus frames wouldnt be the first thing powered by the void to manifest energy that isnt void as an end result. You have the Death Orbs in the Orokin Towers that are clearly also using void energy to produce radioactive energy damage. You can see thing as you reveal the core. And that they provide energy to Prime frames that move close to them. So the frames are producing their effects by manipulating the void to have the desired effect.

Or where exactly do you think a frame like Gara is carrying her wall segments? Or in what massive sand bag Inaros is carrying his sand. Or where Atlas gets the stones from to create solid walls or his own golems? Or where Mesa have managed to fit her infinite amount of bullets? Or from what orifice Frost manages to squeeze out Ice Wave shards, or more shockingly the spikes that make up his avalance. It's all void "magic". Which has become more and more clear the more we have learned about conceptual embodyment.

 

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How? You already made up things about the void. It doesnt and has never dealt more damage to sentients, it resets their resistances,

I think you're taking the game mechanics more literally than intended.

I will admit I was wrong about the mechanics in an earlier post. But definitely not wrong about the lore: Sentients are weak to Void exposure. If the Warframes COULD count as Void exposure, why would the Orokin not play that up? As it stands the Sentients get more and more resistant to repeatedly spamming the same Warframe power (debuffs lasting shorter and shorter, for example) while if your theory was true that wouldn't happen

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And what on earth does the Myrmidon have to do with anything?

You yourself prove my point:

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is just an extremely advanced weapon

Exactly. Just an extremely advanced weapon. Like Warframes

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You have the Death Orbs in the Orokin Towers that are clearly also using void energy to produce radioactive energy damage

Ok so you yourself accuse me of making things up, then you yourself make things up. There is zero indication in the lore the Death Orbs have any sort of Void energy. As far as the lore goes they are just very large laser cannons

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Or where exactly do you think a frame like Gara is carrying her wall segments? Or in what massive sand bag Inaros is carrying his sand. Or where Atlas gets the stones from to create solid walls or his own golems? Or where Mesa have managed to fit her infinite amount of bullets? Or from what orifice Frost manages to squeeze out Ice Wave shards, or more shockingly the spikes that make up his avalance. It's all void "magic". 

This is called "hammerspace" and it makes about as much sense as saying the Doomguy from Doom is using a magical Hell backpack to carry all his ammo. No, he just carries his guns and ammo in a normal human backpack. How? Just does. In Warframe, you can carry hundreds of bullets and 220+ throwing knives on you, and there's no Void magic in play there either.

Frost doesn't even need that. Check out the description of Snow Globe: He's just so cold he freezes the water vapor in the air to ice. No magical Void summoning

I need to learn to stop replying to you, you are not a fun debate partner

[NameLessFreak]

On 2024-06-20 at 11:52 AM, Corvid said:

Er... no. They very much are not. They're localised reality warping effects accomplished through channelling the Void.

No, they are not. It has yet be explained how each Warframe's power set is created. Warframes don't channel the void Tenno do.  Orokin just make their weapons based around whatever powers they get. 

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I think you're taking the game mechanics more literally than intended.

I will admit I was wrong about the mechanics in an earlier post. But definitely not wrong about the lore: Sentients are weak to Void exposure. If the Warframes COULD count as Void exposure, why would the Orokin not play that up? As it stands the Sentients get more and more resistant to repeatedly spamming the same Warframe power (debuffs lasting shorter and shorter, for example) while if your theory was true that wouldn't happen

Dont say that someone else takes the game mechanics more literally than intended when you yourself bring in game mechanics to an even greater extent. Void exposure is only know to have a sickening effect on the Sentients, to make them infertile. This already happens as they cross to Sol, so what would be the point in even more? To make them extra extra barren? On the otherhand, the lore tells us that the Setients are vulnerable to more basic things, which is why the frames are used.

And why my theory goes against what you think regarding debuffs I dont see any reason for (this is also in order to balance gameplay). Since the void energy is changed into something else, it allows Ember for instance to manifest fire, heat, accelerants etc. It isnt some void-heat, it is the void allowing heat to transform without the need of flammable substances, or in her case also allows her to materialize flammable substances that she would not be able to carry elsewhere on her body. So what comes out of the frame is not void, it is powered by the void. Just as the angels arent void, nor the inhabitants of duviri etc. They are manifested with the help of the void.

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

You yourself prove my point:

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Exactly. Just an extremely advanced weapon. Like Warframes

No lol. You've completely missed the main part of the lore, that the frames are not advanced. Which is why they are capable of fighting the Sentient, that turned all other Orokin weapons against them since they were too advanced. Which only implies more that it isnt tech that produces the fancy things on the frames, but instead the void, since that would be tech the sentients cannot use themselves because they cant use the void.

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ok so you yourself accuse me of making things up, then you yourself make things up. There is zero indication in the lore the Death Orbs have any sort of Void energy. As far as the lore goes they are just very large laser cannons

Yes there is. Frames getting energy from them for instance, aswell as the core of the orbs housing visible void energy at the core.

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is called "hammerspace" and it makes about as much sense as saying the Doomguy from Doom is using a magical Hell backpack to carry all his ammo. No, he just carries his guns and ammo in a normal human backpack. How? Just does. In Warframe, you can carry hundreds of bullets and 220+ throwing knives on you, and there's no Void magic in play there either.

Frost doesn't even need that. Check out the description of Snow Globe: He's just so cold he freezes the water vapor in the air to ice. No magical Void summoning

I need to learn to stop replying to you, you are not a fun debate partner

Complete glass walls are a bit different wouldnt you think? Gara would need a literal truckload per wall, if not more. And the reason Frost can do that is due to the void that allows him to manipulate things that way. And from where do you assume things like Dagath's horses come?

[Keithy55]

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Dont say that someone else takes the game mechanics more literally than intended when you yourself bring in game mechanics to an even greater extent. Void exposure is only know to have a sickening effect on the Sentients, to make them infertile. This already happens as they cross to Sol, so what would be the point in even more? To make them extra extra barren? On the otherhand, the lore tells us that the Setients are vulnerable to more basic things, which is why the frames are used.

And why my theory goes against what you think regarding debuffs I dont see any reason for (this is also in order to balance gameplay). Since the void energy is changed into something else, it allows Ember for instance to manifest fire, heat, accelerants etc. It isnt some void-heat, it is the void allowing heat to transform without the need of flammable substances, or in her case also allows her to materialize flammable substances that she would not be able to carry elsewhere on her body. So what comes out of the frame is not void, it is powered by the void. Just as the angels arent void, nor the inhabitants of duviri etc. They are manifested with the help of the void.

No lol. You've completely missed the main part of the lore, that the frames are not advanced. Which is why they are capable of fighting the Sentient, that turned all other Orokin weapons against them since they were too advanced. Which only implies more that it isnt tech that produces the fancy things on the frames, but instead the void, since that would be tech the sentients cannot use themselves because they cant use the void.

Yes there is. Frames getting energy from them for instance, aswell as the core of the orbs housing visible void energy at the core.

Complete glass walls are a bit different wouldnt you think? Gara would need a literal truckload per wall, if not more. And the reason Frost can do that is due to the void that allows him to manipulate things that way. And from where do you assume things like Dagath's horses come?

I'm pretty sure how warframes are void-powered is from the Tenno powers, but the warframes themselves are the ones with the abilities. In the Sacrifice quest, Ballas mentions that he made warframes first before using the Tenno, so it's safe to say that the warframe has abilities before the Tenno even touched them. Personally I think the warframes and their abilities are only powered by the void through Tenno, but their abilities are not void in nature; A gun fires bullets using gunpowder, but you wouldn't say bullets are formed from gunpowder.

So in the case, the warframes themselves do not have void powers, only the Tenno has them. The Stalker and Jade doesn't seem to have a Tenno piloting them, but they still have their powers nonetheless, that's not from the void because Ballas himself said that he only thought of utilizing the void after the warframes are made. If you see the Leverian, there are warframes like Dante that seems to operate without a Tenno, aka void-less. Ballas made Protea for Parvos, which is probably not piloted by a Tenno too.

There's no lore dictating how Ballas was able to make/produce warframe abilities, so it could be hammerspace or some Orokin tech that could produce these things for them. But it's quite easy to conclude that warframe powers are not void in origin, except Xaku cause he's literally made of void energy.

Even magic has rules surrounding them, don't give the void too much credit for everything. Void energy is currently only channeled through the Heart, the Zariman Ten-Zero ship and those that shook hands. At least that's what I think, I'm open to discussions with proven texts or lore.

[(PSN)Boo8882200]

Spoilers because I still don't know how to do it

 

I also don't know how to quote people but stalker very clearly is a warframe and I've come to this conclusion based on dialogue from jade shadows and the second dream. "All of your dread long life you've waited for this moment. But your asking yourself.. was I really one of these wretched things(camera focused on your warframe) you know the answer... You still hate them... You still hate... Yourself" and from jade shadows "your here for help? For a warframe? Why? You hate warframes. Unless...is this one...like you" to me when you look at both sets of dialogue it definitely implies stalker is a warframe.

Edited June 24 by (PSN)Boo8882200

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, Keithy55 said:

I'm pretty sure how warframes are void-powered is from the Tenno powers, but the warframes themselves are the ones with the abilities. In the Sacrifice quest, Ballas mentions that he made warframes first before using the Tenno, so it's safe to say that the warframe has abilities before the Tenno even touched them. Personally I think the warframes and their abilities are only powered by the void through Tenno, but their abilities are not void in nature; A gun fires bullets using gunpowder, but you wouldn't say bullets are formed from gunpowder.

So in the case, the warframes themselves do not have void powers, only the Tenno has them. The Stalker and Jade doesn't seem to have a Tenno piloting them, but they still have their powers nonetheless, that's not from the void because Ballas himself said that he only thought of utilizing the void after the warframes are made. If you see the Leverian, there are warframes like Dante that seems to operate without a Tenno, aka void-less. Ballas made Protea for Parvos, which is probably not piloted by a Tenno too.

There's no lore dictating how Ballas was able to make/produce warframe abilities, so it could be hammerspace or some Orokin tech that could produce these things for them. But it's quite easy to conclude that warframe powers are not void in origin, except Xaku cause he's literally made of void energy.

Even magic has rules surrounding them, don't give the void too much credit for everything. Void energy is currently only channeled through the Heart, the Zariman Ten-Zero ship and those that shook hands. At least that's what I think, I'm open to discussions with proven texts or lore.

They rely on the void aswell prior to the Tenno, same as the Necramechs (those do it to a lesser extent). You can see it with a frame like Kullervo, since he is a pre-tenno frame that has lived on, and he exposes the void within, both in his stab wounds and his different helmets. Xaku also shows it, where you really see the internals of a frame(s). 

In Heart of Deimos we practically learn that the Warframes rely on the void to do anything. Hence why the frame is impacted by the state of the heart while the Tenno isnt. Umbra also shows us that frames arent powered by the Tenno, since he can act fully on his own while the Tenno is seperated from him. So just because there isnt a Tenno, it doesnt mean the frame is void-less.

It cant be Orokin tech on its own, since that would just be more very high-tech tech, which is what they had to move away from. And most things regarding frames, if they were to not be rooted in the void, would be extremely high-tech and rival old Orokin tech that the sentients turned against them already. Most things that we see with the frames are also animated in a rather acceptable way as something that is summoned and not coming from an imaginary bag of goodies that they somehow carry with them. The glass for instance originates from Gara, and it is the same with most other similar skills. Which goes perfectly hand in hand with what we've learned about conceptual embodyment, which has allowed the Drifter to create a whole world with living beings and structures, including domestic and wild animals, aswell as plants etc. And we know that conceptual embodyment exsists in the game, it is very real in the WF universe.

[C11H22O1]

On 2024-06-19 at 10:41 PM, OniDax said:

They're talking about the female Corpus commanded and the male Corpus crewmen. The woman immediately orders a ceasefire because there's a baby (even if they shouldn't think it's real considering there are no aliens in Warframe) while the men don't care and keep shooting. If you actually bothered the read the rest of the thread, you'd recognize that, but you didn't

I did, she's the one in command, she is the one that gave the order, do you people seriously think some crewman is going to disobey their command even if they heard the baby? The whole men not caring doesn't apply to this situation especially since they do stop shooting after she gave the order, they're just grunts following commands.

As for the women having motherly instincts cliché I can see someone seeing it that way but eh it really doesn't feel forced, all sisters are women and they're the best soldiers the Corpus have to deal with someone like Stalker. Doesn't feel like they threw a woman there just to make the scene follow a cliché 

Edited June 24 by C11H22O1

[Agall]

On 2024-06-19 at 7:41 PM, OniDax said:

Whole lot of theories, none of which are things the quest implies (because the quest quite literally doesn't even address how or why they became warframes). It's a shame DE didn't care enough to make an actual deep story that explored Stalker's history and that of Jade. 

Are there other ways than being infected with the Helminth strain to go from human to Warframe?

They clearly show Jade and Sorren as humans.

Stalker being a former low guardian is confirmed.

They did a no-no, which the Orokin are pretty harsh with punishments, the example being Parvos' who lost a hand for stealing.

Umbra was intentionally created by Ballas in the broken form we got as punishment.

Ballas survives the fall of the Orokin and so did Sorren or the Stalker.

 

I'd say the most plausible theory- Ballas knew of their relationship and made the Stalker in a similar way he made Umbra as punishment, except he made the Stalker to hate the Tenno as a weapon against them before the fall. Ballas never trusted the Tenno and rightfully so, and we see both him and Jade as Warframes in a flashback during the fall. If the strain of Helminth used creates a certain Warframe, potentially the same strain as Umbra that leaves a bit of their consciousness. 

 

[Agall]

2 hours ago, C11H22O1 said:

Doesn't feel like they threw a woman there just to make the scene follow a cliché 

It seems more like there's some prophecy with the Corpus, since she's mostly trying to figure out what the Stalker is doing than stopping him (kind of). The moment she realizes what he's protecting, she stops. Parvos is also interested in the child, so maybe there's some Corpus prophecy with a Warframe baby.

[dangerdragon117]

On 2024-06-18 at 12:16 PM, MrChurch83 said:

it was an incredible quest, when I saw Jade pregnant I was literally speechless
I'm sure the baby will play a role in the future, it's too important an event to leave it like this

this is DE we are talking about here, they will forget the child even exists and have most likely already thrown the plot line away.

Edit: warframe is a bundle of forgotten plot lines.

Edited June 25 by dangerdragon117

[OniDax]

6 hours ago, Agall said:

Are there other ways than being infected with the Helminth strain to go from human to Warframe?

They clearly show Jade and Sorren as humans.

Stalker being a former low guardian is confirmed.

They did a no-no, which the Orokin are pretty harsh with punishments, the example being Parvos' who lost a hand for stealing.

Umbra was intentionally created by Ballas in the broken form we got as punishment.

Ballas survives the fall of the Orokin and so did Sorren or the Stalker.

 

I'd say the most plausible theory- Ballas knew of their relationship and made the Stalker in a similar way he made Umbra as punishment, except he made the Stalker to hate the Tenno as a weapon against them before the fall. Ballas never trusted the Tenno and rightfully so, and we see both him and Jade as Warframes in a flashback during the fall. If the strain of Helminth used creates a certain Warframe, potentially the same strain as Umbra that leaves a bit of their consciousness. 

 

It's not about the way to go from human to Warframe, but about the why. It's an assumption that both of them were punished. We simply don't know, but we can assume. But we're robbed of seeing them go through that process. We're not given how the humans grapple with that decision, the emotions they display, the things they do either to hide the truth from the Orokin or what they may do to avoid punishment or if they even accept their fate out of loyalty to the Orokin. And we're robbed of seeing Stalker at the ceremony where the Orokin fall. We're robbed of seeing his conflicting emotions (if he had any) about the Orokin. That is more interesting character-focused storytelling than having the player play a birthing minigame. We didn't need long cutscenes or voiceovers, but that should've been the focus, imo, not the act of the Warframe giving birth. The humans are much more interesting that the suits of armor, and it seems that's something DE isn't interested in. We just didn't get a deeper look into Stalker's or Jade's backstories and were left with something that, to me, was not deep at all.

6 hours ago, Agall said:

It seems more like there's some prophecy with the Corpus, since she's mostly trying to figure out what the Stalker is doing than stopping him (kind of). The moment she realizes what he's protecting, she stops. Parvos is also interested in the child, so maybe there's some Corpus prophecy with a Warframe baby.

Hmm. I must have missed that. I don't recall Parvos mentioning anything about a prophecy. I know he wanted Jade's Jade Light powers (obviously the only remaining source of Jade Light). It's a shame the story didn't actually connect to the Jade Light. Would've been nice to know if the Orokin used Jade as an executioner or if it's just a coincidence that the names are the same. Would also be interesting as it would shed light on just how early she became a warframe (because TSD suggests Margulis was killed before the Tenno were used to control warframes, so it'd be interesting to see how early they were using warframes before they used the Tenno and why they needed the Tenno at all).

8 minutes ago, dangerdragon117 said:

this is DE we are talking about here, they will forget the child even exists and have most likely already thrown the plot line away.

This is what I expect.

[L3512]

On 2024-06-23 at 11:43 PM, SneakyErvin said:

No lol. You've completely missed the main part of the lore, that the frames are not advanced. Which is why they are capable of fighting the Sentient, that turned all other Orokin weapons against them since they were too advanced. Which only implies more that it isnt tech that produces the fancy things on the frames, but instead the void, since that would be tech the sentients cannot use themselves because they cant use the void.

That seems to be the classical computers are bad in Sci-fi trope. Hence the need to make Necramechs and Cephalons out of real peoples minds to avoid sentient corruption. Umbra was a hero as a dax and we know dax use technology.

[L3512]

On 2024-06-21 at 3:53 AM, Keithy55 said:

Very compelling theory actually, Sirius/Orion does feel like the key to WF1999. Both Albrecht and Loid talked about executing the rest of the Kalymos Sequence only when the time is right, what if the birth of Sirius/Orion and the Green Lantern Stalker is that right time?

Loid didn't even know what a Tenno (and WF?) was, so doubtful.