I dislike the new resistances/status/armor rework.

[Xovon]

For me personally, the difficulty of learning all the different damage resistances for all the different enemies, along with figuring out the most effective ways to deal with them all, like Grineer armor at high levels, was very interesting and engaging to me.

To be clear, I fully understand how these changes are overall going to benefit the game. Since most players will have more fun playing through a system that is simpler to understand, and less punishing if they do not solve the challenges presented by the old system.

But for me, now it is just all gone.

Direct guides have even been added when selecting missions that just straight up tell you what is effective and ineffective against the enemies there. With all enemies of each faction now having the same resistances, there is no longer even any nuance between enemies inside a mission instance.

You no longer need to experiment. You no longer need to research.

You just follow what the game tells you to do, and even at high levels you will do fine.

All you need now in your loadout is a main damage dealer with whatever element is effective against the faction you are up against, e.g. your primary. A corrosive armor stripper, e.g. your secondary, and toxic weapon to bypass shields, e.g. your melee. With this setup you will be almost as good for all content as someone using a fully optimized and thought out setup for specific factions, that are eeking out everything they can.

What I was looking forwards to has been gutted, neutered. While I accept that the new system will be better for warframe, as someone who had done the research on the old system, and was looking forward to facing the challenges of end game content with the solutions I had thought through, I am now left feeling very disappointed.

[Merkranire]

It didn’t even need to be so simplified when it could have been pruned a little and made more understandable through the interface changes they just implemented; the rock-paper-scissors of combat has been completely lost, begging the question of why the different damage types are left in the first place when a) uninterested players are just going to overpower the system anyways and b) there’s nothing happening in the actual mission regarding different damage types since it’s just the one damage type.

If they’re going to simplify it this much, why not take out the damage types entirely. The game’s worse off for it since even if they introduced mechanical complexity it could have been made more naunced with damage types (and any complexity would have been treated as optional by uninterested players anyways) , but at least the players who stand around playing advanced cookie clicker will be happy

 

…Not… that they couldn’t cookie click before. Wait, so if players just build to do cookie clicker anyways, and new players are able to approximate that approach by just building higher than the content they’re doing, and they just cared about grindspeed instead of any nuanced gameplay…

What was this simplification for again? Because it’s not for players who just one-build-to-rule-them-all their way through, and it’s not for newbies who only chase the grind who would offset themselves from the content to avoid having to do anything with the damage system or many of the game’s mechanics

Edited June 24 by Merkranire

[ominumi]

Viral used to deal half the current health every second for 6 second regardless of armor or shields. Slash used to deal True damage directly taking chunks off health regardless of armor or shields. Slash/Viral used to be meta because they both ignore defensives AND level ranges. Slash/Viral have been changes a few years back. Only a few years ago. 

Currently the investment to exploit elemental weaknesses is too high. Other options dealing damage is far easier, less investment needed, and more flexible across multiple fraction. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

I don't feel the same, but your feelings are valid.  I'm genuinely sorry that this overall gain resulted in your subjective loss, and you have my compassion.

I guess the bright side is that Warframe is still ridiculously complex; you will never truly be out of things to test, research, and experiment with.

[Marvelous_A]

1 hour ago, ominumi said:

Viral used to deal half the current health every second for 6 second regardless of armor or shields. Slash used to deal True damage directly taking chunks off health regardless of armor or shields. Slash/Viral used to be meta because they both ignore defensives AND level ranges. Slash/Viral have been changes a few years back. Only a few years ago. 

Currently the investment to exploit elemental weaknesses is too high. Other options dealing damage is far easier, less investment needed, and more flexible across multiple fraction. 

It's hard to be flexible in elements - for starters, the options of each element are different. Cold damage has Vazarin polarity and the rest have Naramon. We have Blaze for shotgun which gives heat damage but no other variants. Each weapon category gets a different primed element mod. You can't flex the element damage on a riven. Going for one typical element META is still the far more superior way.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Xovon said:

You no longer need to experiment. You no longer need to research.

You just follow what the game tells you to do, and even at high levels you will do fine.

before:
 

Quote

 

You didn't need to experiment. You didn't need to reasearch.

You just follow what youtubers tells you to do, and even at high levels you would be fine.

 

 

 

[Merkranire]

20 minutes ago, quxier said:

before:
 

 

 

You didn’t need to do the esoteric BS that people were telling you to do unless you were doing something like Steel Path which threw the rulebook out the window and was a terrible representation of any sort of balance regardless of how many players tried to convince themselves and each other otherwise, and it was a terrible representation of balance because it wasn’t trying to be balanced so it did its job of being a place for esoteric BS while the rest of the game made sense and was more balanced

Learn a few damage types, take all of 5 minutes with Simaris’ upgradeable scanner and a few missions to get a feel, and it carried you through so much of the game and opened up so many options in understandable ways where if someone did have a brainfart, we had the codex to use as a reference and Simaris’ scanner gave a live feed of what you needed to know in-mission. A minor pruning wouldn’t have gone amiss, but this is way too simplified, and players are still going to come up with convoluted esoteric BS nonsense and try and sell it as the standard way to play.

The interface changes telling you what to do and how to play were good, but the game about making builds and experimenting and discovering didn’t need to beat you upside the head with how to play as well as making it basically pointless to try and educate you about anything since the systems are now so simplified that they don’t need any sort of guidance

Edited June 25 by Merkranire

[AntifreezeUnder0]

I mean what worked before status changes works now. If one goes into min maxing some things gets better.

everythign else is same as before too, watch the current meta on youtube copy paste, and then get angry when game ''fixes'' untintended interactions

[quxier]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

29 minutes ago, quxier said:

before:
 

 

 

You didn’t need to do the esoteric BS that people were telling you to do unless you were doing something like Steel Path which threw the rulebook out the window and was a terrible representation of any sort of balance regardless of how many players tried to convince themselves and each other otherwise, and it was a terrible representation of balance because it wasn’t trying to be balanced so it did its job of being a place for esoteric BS while the rest of the game made sense and was more balanced

18 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

are now so simplified that they don’t need any sort of guidance

And you didn't need guidance before. You could learn it on your own. Still, there were "guides" here. Op just said that we had to do research/experiment. No we didn't have to.

 

[Merkranire]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

And you didn't need guidance before. You could learn it on your own. Still, there were "guides" here. Op just said that we had to do research/experiment. No we didn't have to.

What…?

You still had to learn the systems to an extent (not the extent that players would have you think, scaring others away even more from learning the system) because from the modless baseline and intrinsic damage type of our gear, the game exposed us to how the damage type system influenced what you brought and how you built from level 30-ish onwards; if you wanted to open up your available build and loadout options while using them in intertwining ways for the one mission, you would benefit from learning at least the 75% bonus damage and whatever resistances the enemy had, which meant paying attention to what you were fighting and what you brought. And if you didn’t want to think about that, just load up on insane amounts of damage, which would have you start exploring esoteric and convoluted ways to ignore the system; it was way harder to ignore the system, particularly at higher levels even in the balanced portion, than it was to learn it

[trst]

The problem is that nobody ever really had to care about the old resistance system. Since it was so easy to brute force it and the meta status effects are so powerful that it wouldn't matter if an enemy was outright immune to the damage if the proc still worked.

The only people it ever mattered to was new players who're lacking in options. So knowing if a certain mod/weapon you do have would be better suited favors them more. Especially as in-game knowledge of resistances was locked behind the scanning system.

As for more experienced players honestly the needle hasn't really changed. The only real differences being that it takes slightly less effort to brute force armor without armor stripping, non-grineer factions are slightly tankier, and there's some more elements to consider when making a build but the meta ones remained unchanged.

 

So yeah while losing the benefit of having learned the old system nothing has really changed otherwise. It was mostly just trimming off a failed system that DE left abandoned in favor of making it easier for the only players it really mattered for.

[Pakaku]

The old system had complexity and nuance, but there was no reason to engage in it or experiment most of the time when you could just build one way and conquer everything, so it was overcomplicated for little reason.

Obviously the intent was there with enemy resistances, but DE decided to let one meta take over and leave a huge majority of the system behind. They should have just reverted slash/toxin bypassing armour/shields. As soon as they allowed that, Slash became meta since armour is still obnoxious, and Viral became meta because it helps slash procs.

If they got rid of that bypass, Corrosive, Magnetic, Puncture, Impact would be a lot more relevant. I suppose now it's simpler and more along the lines of bringing whatever you want, with a pleasant bonus if you do choose to engage with it.

I never felt motivated to really change my builds much until they added the Murmur with a distinct Viral resistance, and even then it was simply a matter of considering adding Radiation along with Viral, which are compatible with each other, for the viral procs anyways.

Edited June 25 by Pakaku

[Merkranire]

And the hilarious irony is that most players weren’t interested in exploring alternative build and playstyles in the first place, they’re still not interested now, and even if someone did somehow become interested, there’s less incentive to explore and do

DE can try and entice players into mixing things up, it’s not going to happen once the dust settled and players find their new favourite forever builds

Edited June 25 by Merkranire

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I feel you OP, as I was one of those players who embraced the scanning, learning and applying weaknesses as I learned the game. All of Warframe's learning elements were so rewarding to me and are all held happily in memory.

That said, this new system is truly what the game needed, IMO. As others have said, vets now have a greater expansion of EFFECTIVE combos to use on enemies, thanks to some clever reworks, while new players can learn about how to mod, why to mod, and then discover the powerful differences between an element and its proc. Cold damage may not be effective against enemy X, but freezing enemy X is a huge benefit. This new system gradually teaches players the importance of knowing how you want to play for a given circumstance. I'm all in for that.

[CosmicSheepo]

A part of me does like the new simplicity: the elemental damage system is much more digestable for newbies. A part of me mourns the unique amount of knowledge a veteran could have if they memorized all of the elements that were effective against a specific faction or enemy. Another part of me also realizes that even with the 13 or something health, armor, and shield types, nobody engaged with it because the main effect was either boosted or nerfed damage, which means that basically nobody except lavos (and the few frames who auto adapt damage) actually engaged with the system because at the end of the day, we don't mod status onto our weapons for their effectiveness, but instead their status effect.

Viral for extra health damage, slash to punch through armor and everything else that exists. Corrosive to strip armor, heat to assist in said task. Magnetic did not exist. Toxin to delete the Corpus (this is the only status effect off the top of my head which you would actually care about the damage bonus, because toxin damage bypasses shields entirely). Everything else was effectively never actually engaged with, even with the high-end theory-crafting, with exceptions lying in gas and electric for some funnier builds.

So at the end of the day, although it was nice to flex your knowledge of enemy weaknesses and resistances, in reality I severely doubt many of us actually exploited them in favor of the tried and true universal solutions.

[ominumi]

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

And the hilarious irony is that most players weren’t interested in exploring alternative build and playstyles in the first place, they’re still not interested now, and even if someone did somehow become interested, there’s less incentive to explore and do

DE can try and entice players into mixing things up, it’s not going to happen once the dust settled and players find their new favourite forever builds

There's still avenue for experimentation. Just not with elemental weaknesses. Status proc experiments are far more rewarding. Just look at Blast nowadays. Least of all, Status and Melee Influence.

[kuciol]

I dont understand your problem honestly. There was no experimentation and learning. You used the same thing all the time. We had enemies within 1 faction that had completely different resistances so you couldnt do that. Bombards and heavy gunners for example, 1 was weak to corrosive and the other to radiation. So what we did? We went for something that ignores both, viral/slash. It honestly doesnt matter and never did in things below SP. You can still do anything. This whole "learning" part was irrelevant. Dont even try to lie to yourself.

[0_The_F00l]

While i understand it partially takes away some depth of game mechanics.I also think it is necessary to simplify the games various mechanics considering how obscure and complicated they are.

I also think this is the first step of many to make things manageable , I suspect every update will be tuning things a bit to bring parity.

[Merkranire]

53 minutes ago, ominumi said:

There's still avenue for experimentation. Just not with elemental weaknesses. Status proc experiments are far more rewarding. Just look at Blast nowadays. Least of all, Status and Melee Influence.

Sure. That hasn’t changed aside from status changes that could just as well have been added to the old system. And before, there was experimenting with setting different roles for gear, bringing multiple damage types in the first place to then bring multiple status effects to bear, and evolving fights that enticed if not heavily recommended thinking on how to optimise a particular scenario with what was brought and decision making on the fly. That rock-paper-scissors style of enticing alternative builds and switching between gear could add layers to everything someone could do while actually having an effect on the gameplay itself that wasn’t just ”Slightly different way to kill everything”.

And it was optional, hasn’t been made mandatory right now either, and I preferred it that way because the amount of complaining people would do if they had to play like I did would have been insane, while I’m using everything I’ve earned in different ways instead of binning off options because they didn’t let me overpower whatever the community considered endgame (though I dabbled in that too and haven’t exactly lost that part that I would indulge in periodically because too much uncomplicated overpowered mass slaughter was only fun for so long)

Edited June 25 by Merkranire

[Shadow_1274]

http://Hey I got a question I’m building shade prime right ? I got 2 of he’s parts and they not showing up in my foundry is the game like that ? Do

[0_The_F00l]

6 minutes ago, Shadow_1274 said:

http://Hey I got a question I’m building shade prime right ? I got 2 of he’s parts and they not showing up in my foundry is the game like that ? Do

You should ask questions in the players helping players section.

But to answer you , you need the blueprint  for it to be visible in the foundry. 

You probably have the base parts but not the Blueprint.

[Merkranire]

5 hours ago, ominumi said:

There's still avenue for experimentation. Just not with elemental weaknesses. Status proc experiments are far more rewarding. Just look at Blast nowadays. Least of all, Status and Melee Influence.

Also I’m not completely agreeing with your idea of how overtly rewarding status proc experimentation is; status proc experiments are rewarding, that’s true, and engaging gameplay, customised as desired and flowing in interesting ways and using more of what I’d earned than some meta would allow if not working status proc experiments into the mix at the same time, was rewarding as well (if not more rewarding; big whoop, killed dudes fast while chasing some meta, leaving little to no actual gameplay, yaawwwwnn. Finding out the combinations is fun, actually using them on repeat endlessly is questionable on the fun scale, especially if I grew to resent new things earned)

Edited June 25 by Merkranire

[PrinzeEugen]

I like how it is now( just to make those who dislike it know someone disagree with them ).

You might like the old system by many reason but just like how people make comment here is only a very small percentage amount the player base, those like you(like to figure complex things out and swapping gears between every missions)might just be a even smaller percentage of the player base.

Is pointless to argue about if the old system is unnecessarily complex or not cuz it will never be too complex if you just like to figure complex things out. And the whole point of new system is to make warframe much welcoming to newbies. Imaging you just hop into warframe, you see grineers you see they are weak against corrosive, you pick the best corrosive dealer and find out you're right even when you completely rip their armor off you're still right that's how average player learn things and not get confuse then give up.

Just keep in mind once you decide to make a comment here you're far from being classify as an average player but a warframe pro with no life and warframe is for everyone who will possibly join this community and buy stuff from DE. and it should be friendly to most of them.

[Merkranire]

2 hours ago, PrinzeEugen said:

I like how it is now( just to make those who dislike it know someone disagree with them ).

You might like the old system by many reason but just like how people make comment here is only a very small percentage amount the player base, those like you(like to figure complex things out and swapping gears between every missions)might just be a even smaller percentage of the player base.

Is pointless to argue about if the old system is unnecessarily complex or not cuz it will never be too complex if you just like to figure complex things out. And the whole point of new system is to make warframe much welcoming to newbies. Imaging you just hop into warframe, you see grineers you see they are weak against corrosive, you pick the best corrosive dealer and find out you're right even when you completely rip their armor off you're still right that's how average player learn things and not get confuse then give up.

Just keep in mind once you decide to make a comment here you're far from being classify as an average player but a warframe pro with no life and warframe is for everyone who will possibly join this community and buy stuff from DE. and it should be friendly to most of them.

And I’m repeatedly saying it could stand to have been made more accessible, maybe pared back a little without losing its depth and the community could stand to stop acting like esoteric complexity is the only way to play, so stop acting like stripping it completely back was the only solution

Edited June 25 by Merkranire

[kuciol]

But nothing really changed. There where 3 units you didnt one shot and you used viral/slash on those. You didnt need to change that ever because everything else dies whatever you used.