Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[TeaHands]

We've been going into battle with children for years now

And Nidus births maggots as part of his kit and no one cares that his newborn babies go off to explode in battle :(

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

15 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

nope im fine with it its our work what woman didn't go to work pregnant ?

I don't think we'd put a pregnant soldier on the front lines.

[.Fire_Fly.]

Just now, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I don't think we'd put a pregnant soldier on the front lines.

its a warframe not a human we have kids on the front lines so whats worse?

[(XBOX)Omega399]

49 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

It's a bit weird. From the latest devshort it seems like DE's aware of the request so once the spoiler notice is lifted I suspect we'll get an official response. Pregnancy is one of those sensitive cultural subjects so having an alternate skin is really not an unreasonable request.

To have one immediately is the main part thats unreasonable to people, to have it being her duluxe skin in the following years is the thing universally seen as completely reasonable, especially since it would likely give DE the time to make new animations similar to a few of the others like Mirage and Khora.

I fully expect the other Jade skins will stay true to her default design however, be it an Xbox Jade, Dex Jade, or Prime Jade, simply due to how that is the artistic choice DE made with her design, and should be respected.

[WanderingJoe]

That was a very well thought out and expressed opinion Confuzzled. 

 

I'm gonna be honest, I don't have a complicated reason myself. I just don't want to play as a pregnant warframe and my friends also think this is wierd. I dont think people feelings have to be super deep on this but more power to them if they are. Our reasons behind our opinions are our own, varied as they may be. Whether from fears or trauma to personal preference, this is part of the community saying they want the same thing: the option to make our own choice on Jade..

 

Edited Monday at 06:48 AM by WanderingJoe

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 17 heures, RichardKam a dit :

Pregnancy never stop women being badass.

Although, medically speaking, pregnant human women should avoid unnecessary labor. But Jade is a warframe so.

Totally that !!! Thank you very much. I'm very happy to read this, as it's the same thing I've been saying since she was released.

Many people are considerng Jade as a pregnant woman, but Jade is a deadly warframe, that can destroy an entire army in seconds. She is not affected by any of women's pregnancy limitations, restrictions or complications.

On the other hand, I'm for an alt skin, because her pregnancy seems to make many people unconfortable (specially those who went through some trauma with miscarriage).

Edited Monday at 07:16 AM by AegidiusF

[Kaiga]

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

in the game about being space ninjas, we have: water anime idol girl, literally a pirate, Obligatory Journey to the West reference, a necromancer, a Wild West American, a McDonald's American, sexy witches, sexy jesters, a mummy, a zombie, and so on. A pregnant woman is not a concept that is so far fetched for this game.

This is the only thing to address in all this, as "so what" just means you dont care and isn't really an artstyle point.

What makes pregnancy different from all of these?

Can you tell me why that might perhaps be the case? As to why pregnancy isn't included in the standard roster of fantasy lineup character designs and elements, all of which you just listed? 

Please think about what you're saying here in regards to game design. 

 

Edited Monday at 08:17 AM by Kaiga

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

its a warframe not a human we have kids on the front lines so whats worse?

"Its a warframe not a human" 

I mean that's debatable first off. 

Id argue a human that turned into a frame, possibly against their will, that still has a mind, is still human enough. 

I would consider them worthy of "personhood". 

But even aside from that.

We have "kids" on the front lines?

Are you talking about how you can join the military as young as 17? (Which I think is messed up btw)

Or are you talking about how literal kids in unfortunate circumstances end up on the front lines in various conflicts because reasons? (Also messed up imo)

Either way just because that's a thing doesn't mean pregnant women should be in combat imo. 

[Skoomaseller]

10 hours ago, Kaiga said:

This is the only thing to address in all this, as "so what" just means you dont care and isn't really an artstyle point.

What makes pregnancy different from all of these?

Can you tell me why that might perhaps be the case? As to why pregnancy isn't included in the standard roster of fantasy lineup character designs and elements, all of which you just listed? 

Please think about what you're saying here in regards to game design. 

 

I also listed "pregnant woman" at the end there, in case you missed it. In fact I said it is not so far fetched a concept for design when we've had crazier.

The only one not caring about artstyle is you, because you are literally not paying attention to how it has evolved over the years. DE exploring a new design is not a bad thing.

Edited Monday at 06:22 PM by Letter13
Removed abusive comments

[0_The_F00l]

Not really ,

cause

1) It's not noticeably visible during gameplay.

2) I am not particularly squeamish towards such things.

[Kaiga]

9 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I also listed "pregnant woman" at the end there, in case you missed it. In fact I said it is not so far fetched a concept for design when we've had crazier.

You also didn't answer the question.

What other game, actually for that matter, modern media at all features prominently pregnant protagonists in this kind of killing machine role that the warframes serve? 

And I mean prominently, the noble animations make it very clear that this is a pregnant mother, behaving how she would in real life if she were pregnant.

Why are people not allowed to question the design decisions behind this without being shouted down?

[quxier]

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We have a frame that suffocates people to death, while dressing up as a school girl. Not legal on any level at all, not when it comes to methods of killing or the choice of aestethics!

3 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

in the game about being space ninjas, we have: water anime idol girl, literally a pirate,

That would honestly sell this frame for me. Pirate? Nice. Schoolgirl killer?! Shut up and take my money.

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Or that we have no loyalty whatsoever. Changing our allegiance to syndicates as we see fit, cos who #*!%ing cares right?

I think from lore perspective they just written it badly.

Like, you side against Loka. You do quest with them. They are are friendly and all. They change (not to spoil). Then next time you hear stuff like "you are impure and we should get rid of you". What's wrong with you (syndicate, not you Ervin)?

Or just that you side with one syndicate and other send death squad? Like, I just put some prime parts to them. I don't remember mission like "Tenno, New Loka gets annoying. Let's murder them.".

 

I had 0 loyalty because they don't have one.

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

And I mean prominently, the noble animations make it very clear that this is a pregnant mother, behaving how she would in real life if she were pregnant.

What if she were male? Does it mean male is can be pregnant?

[Luigispikachu]

I am compelled to state, ONCE AGAIN, that we are not asking jade or her quest removed. We are asking for a toggle of some kinda so that we could personally choose to hide the pregnancy displaying parts so that we can play a frame we we're looking forward to without feeling any myriad of negative emotions that we would have to actively choosing to bring something that looks pregnant into war or other combat, or to have to be reminded she looks pregnant.

 

I get there's so many out there treating it like we want the thanos snap the pregnancy away, but understand that a toggle isn't 'someone turns on and then nobody gets the preggers jade', it's a personal thing. Some would call it "clientside".

 

And to everyone who'll continue to act like we want it thanos snapped, please move on. Nobody benefits from empty discussion and bad faith messages.

 

And to those who are actually trying to discuss this, please please PLEASE pay attention to our wording. I'll put it in bold so you understand: We are merely asking for a toggle for something we find in one way or another, for personal reasons, disturbing and/or uncomfortable.

 

Now, back to discussing.

[Luigispikachu]

Let it be known that those of us asking for a toggle have been, are, and will be as civil with this discussion as we can be.

 

I don't think the other side can say that quite as much, especially seeing as someone literally replied in this thread, to the message about having a phobia with

 

No

[TheCursedUltima]

That message is rather demeaning as you are focusing on a select case within a group, and saying that the group by proxy then acts like that case. Just because somebody did indeed say "No" to a phobia, which is rather unhelpful (the statement, not the phobia), doesn't mean everyone on the opposing side is like that.

If someone were to say that they want Jade's pregnancy removed as a whole, quest included - would it be fair for people to take that persons' views as though they were yours too? Would you take them as being on your side or a different side, so you don't associate with them?

It is as though you had 10 farmers, if 1 farmer has a more extreme viewpoint on farming over the other farmers - does that individual represent the farmers as a whole, or just that individual?

Overall; the actions of the few doesn't denote the opinion of the many.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, Vaalyah said:

It is, because if you are playing "as her", it means you ARE in that state. 1) don't expect to be able to understand others' phobia 2) especially in this case if you don't have an uterus.

Again: guys, this thread is "Devs, this is a problem to some users, can we have a different 3D models to avoid it?". Not a "please, come here and do me a random online psychological evaluation".

Thanks.

No. First of she is not in that state when you play her. I thought you said you had done the quest? Apparently you didnt keep up with the story if you've done it. There is nothing related to any form of pregnancy in her gameplay. She sets things on fire in different ways and buffs allies. Or are you saying her 4th skill is her flying around and squirting burning new borns at the enemy? So if they were to remove the belly it would do nothing, since you are still under the assumption that she is pregnant when playing her, even though she isnt.

Second of, the phobia you are using here as a label does not take that form. You might have issue with how she looks, but it would be a different type of phobia at that point. And if you have issues with he idle animation, just remove it, simple as that. You will never see anything belly related after that as you play or look at her. Since when you remove her stance she will look as if she's wearing some olden days dress, and when she's in her 4th form you will never see her from the front.

Third of, your statement that this isnt something someone without a uterus would understand is shocking, since it is a well known fact that even to-be fathers suffer from this phobia, even if the mother doesnt, since he can also experience the same fears regarding massive complications during the pregnancy of his significant other. This can even go to extremes, just as with women, where the person abstains from sexual activities.

12 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

First of all are you a qualified professional (psychiatrist, neurologist, etc.), that has knowledge in these matters? Otherwise this is a very S#&$ty message dunking on someone's fear and experience. 

There is no need to be a professional. All it takes is a vast interest for these things and the ability to read books, papers and press releases regarding different psychological/medical conditions that interest you. The OP is seriously downplaying the actual horrors of the phobia by attributing it to the shape and form of a frame for instance. And it doesnt get any better by her showing her ignorance towards the phobia in the response to me while claiming she has it. You'd expect someone that lives with a phobia (which in this case is extemely rare unless she is in the middle of a pregnancy herself) would know the facts around it.

Also that she (and others) over generalize it by simply saying they suffer from the phobia in a general sense, without detailing which form it takes. Since it is a very wide phobia that can be pre-, during and post- pregnancy related. From as mentioned above, extreme cases of abstaining from sex due to fear of even getting pregnant, to fears of implication during the different stages of the pregnancy and then also post-maternal depression etc. None being linked to some fear of seeing a female shaped as if she could be pregnant.

There is alot you can learn when you are motivated by those around you that suffer from things you dont know much about. Like cancer and phsychological conditions, like phobias and addictions etc.

edit: And if you think professional experience or knowledge is needed. Why should DE ever listen to any claims? DE have no professional medical background in their devs most likely and what is to say the community isnt making things up as they go in this age where Tik-Tok "teaches" the young about mental conditions?

Edited Monday at 12:26 PM by SneakyErvin

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Wonder what will happen when they release a bee related warframe. I think there's phobia around honeycombs looking things. Meanwhile I'd love to go around be like bzbzbzbzbbzzzbzbzzzt.

[Skoomaseller]

9 hours ago, Kaiga said:

You also didn't answer the question.

What other game, actually for that matter, modern media at all features prominently pregnant protagonists in this kind of killing machine role that the warframes serve? 

And I mean prominently, the noble animations make it very clear that this is a pregnant mother, behaving how she would in real life if she were pregnant.

Why are people not allowed to question the design decisions behind this without being shouted down?

I didn't answer your question because it is stupid.

Just because badass pregnant women in combat don't appear as often in other media, doesn't mean it's bad that it's in Warframe. It's not weird either, we have weirder.

You can question the design, I'm critiquing your "b-b-BUT WHAT ABOUT THE AESTHETIC???? MUH NINJA GAME MUST HAVE NINJAS!!!!" take that is frankly, hilarious, given that you, again, are ignoring how the game has evolved.

Edited Monday at 06:24 PM by Letter13
Removed abusive comments

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Kaiga said:

You also didn't answer the question.

What other game, actually for that matter, modern media at all features prominently pregnant protagonists in this kind of killing machine role that the warframes serve? 

And I mean prominently, the noble animations make it very clear that this is a pregnant mother, behaving how she would in real life if she were pregnant.

Why are people not allowed to question the design decisions behind this without being shouted down?

You keep repeating this instead of making actual counterpoints. You sound like a redditor.

You are aware that you can clearly see that there is no fetus in her jade light mote chamber when looking at it in the arsenal right?

Also, are you claiming that I'm prominently pregnant since I like to rub my fat ass male beer keg belly as a pregnant woman would? Does that mean Excal suddenly turns prego if we swap it to him? Would the Xaku's have triplets, or is one just fondeling up one of the others against their will? Or Grendel, is he prego or just full, content and happy?

As I asked in another thread. Do the people that think playable Jade is prego also think that her 4th skill is Jade bombarbing enemies by squirting out burning fetuses or new borns at the enemy? I'd be totally down for that, since that would be some demonic levels of biological warfare and hilarious as #*!%!

"I am not the mother of mercy! Behold my flaming wrath and destruction!"

the screeching sound of a new born is heard as a ball of fire is propelled across the battlefield, hitting the center of the enemy squad, sending them flying as shrapnell from debrees, flesh and umbilical cords tear through their armors and flesh, eventually engulfing them in a blazing inferno (that for some reason smells like pork chops).

[Slayer-.]

For all the users who are triggered by Jades Light belly in this topic I'd love to know the ages, just curious, I'm 59 and was around well before all this PC, Woke stuff.

[Johnprofit]

Honest questions :

Do you think DE should change Dagath for people who have severe Hippophobia?

Do you also think DE should remove bleedout or death for those that have severe Thanatophobia?

Do you think DE should change Grendel for people who have severe emetophobia?

Do you think DE should change Nekros, Sevagoth, and the Harrow quest for people who have severe phasmophobia?

 

[3xt1inct]

52 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No. First of she is not in that state when you play her. I thought you said you had done the quest? Apparently you didnt keep up with the story if you've done it. There is nothing related to any form of pregnancy in her gameplay. She sets things on fire in different ways and buffs allies. Or are you saying her 4th skill is her flying around and squirting burning new borns at the enemy? So if they were to remove the belly it would do nothing, since you are still under the assumption that she is pregnant when playing her, even though she isnt.

Second of, the phobia you are using here as a label does not take that form. You might have issue with how she looks, but it would be a different type of phobia at that point. And if you have issues with he idle animation, just remove it, simple as that. You will never see anything belly related after that as you play or look at her. Since when you remove her stance she will look as if she's wearing some olden days dress, and when she's in her 4th form you will never see her from the front.

Third of, your statement that this isnt something someone without a uterus would understand is shocking, since it is a well known fact that even to-be fathers suffer from this phobia, even if the mother doesnt, since he can also experience the same fears regarding massive complications during the pregnancy of his significant other. This can even go to extremes, just as with women, where the person abstains from sexual activities.

There is no need to be a professional. All it takes is a vast interest for these things and the ability to read books, papers and press releases regarding different psychological/medical conditions that interest you. The OP is seriously downplaying the actual horrors of the phobia by attributing it to the shape and form of a frame for instance. And it doesnt get any better by her showing her ignorance towards the phobia in the response to me while claiming she has it. You'd expect someone that lives with a phobia (which in this case is extemely rare unless she is in the middle of a pregnancy herself) would know the facts around it.

Also that she (and others) over generalize it by simply saying they suffer from the phobia in a general sense, without detailing which form it takes. Since it is a very wide phobia that can be pre-, during and post- pregnancy related. From as mentioned above, extreme cases of abstaining from sex due to fear of even getting pregnant, to fears of implication during the different stages of the pregnancy and then also post-maternal depression etc. None being linked to some fear of seeing a female shaped as if she could be pregnant.

There is alot you can learn when you are motivated by those around you that suffer from things you dont know much about. Like cancer and phsychological conditions, like phobias and addictions etc.

edit: And if you think professional experience or knowledge is needed. Why should DE ever listen to any claims? DE have no professional medical background in their devs most likely and what is to say the community isnt making things up as they go in this age where Tik-Tok "teaches" the young about mental conditions?

For someone who claims to be an educated enthusiast, you very quickly forgot about associative phobias, which applies to Primary Tokophobia as well as many others, source? my girlfriend, who has a Phd in Neurology and a masters in Medical psychiatry, who is active as a psychiatrist/medical researcher.

The associative form of primary tokophobia can be triggered by images of pregnant people or even physical features that resemble those of pregnant people, Tokophobia is one of the phobias that is currently still being investigated and that humanity has in no way perfect knowledge of, you base your opinions and conclusions on what you have read about it, true, but these are publications made with the available knowledge at that time, which is still nowhere near the complete image one would need to judge this case with this much confidence. ~my lovely girlfriend

[Johnprofit]

8 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Then why do her idle animations cradle her not-pregnant belly and stand like she's pregnant, hold her guns around it like she's still pregnant, and rub her middle like she's still pregnant.

The same reason why Umbra still acts like he's traumatized even after being turned into a warframe.

[Vaalyah]

@Johnprofit I think that, if people showed problems with X in the game and the fix is nothing complicated (as removing some polygons from a 3D model), yes, DE would be amazing to help the vast majority of people possible enjoyining the game. Why not? And yes, community should support its members. Offering the chance to play with another skin doesn't spoil the game-experience for those without problems that can enjoy the basic one.

What I disagree is people withouth any clinical knowledge going around internet trying to impose their own ignorant point of view on other people' clinical issues. Professionists exist for a reason. And it takes 10 years to become a doctor.

I am still waiting to hear the answer as to "why something that doesn't impact you in any way (like the availability of a different model for people that don't want to play with Jade as she is now) is so triggering to you?" from a couple of angry-posters in this thread ^^

[Johnprofit]

2 minutes ago, Vaalyah said:

@Johnprofit I think that, if people showed problems with X in the game and the fix is nothing complicated (as removing some polygons from a 3D model), yes, DE would be amazing to help the vast majority of people possible enjoyining the game. Why not? And yes, community should support its members. Offering the chance to play with another skin doesn't spoil the game-experience for those without problems that can enjoy the basic one.

What I disagree is people withouth any clinical knowledge going around internet trying to impose their own ignorant point of view on other people' clinical issues. Professionists exist for a reason. And it takes 10 years to become a doctor.

I am still waiting to hear the answer as to "why something that doesn't impact you in any way (like the availability of a different model for people that don't want to play with Jade as she is now) is so triggering to you?" from a couple of angry-posters in this thread ^^

I see. Interesting. 

Thanks!