gotta admit, worried about Nyx

[Lion]

I can't understand this mindset at all. I main excalibur,  and I know his playstyle much in the same way that you are familiar with Nyx.

 

However, I am also not blind to how outclassed he is in all things and would be happy for a buff/light rework. His exalted blade needs serious help, hate incarnon + melee influence is a straight up room nuking exalted blade that travels faster, farther, and can use blood rush and weeping wounds.

Much like Excalibur, Nyx has been thoroughly outclassed.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 35 minutos, 4thBro dijo:

At any rate... I'm not sure what could possess a human being to forma the same frame 600+ times.

Although I have tried every warframe in the game I usually play warframes with high defense or resistance. And although i main frost since day 1 I can put him 12 Forma at max.

That he has use it 600+ forma only means that he has tried to make work something that doesn't work like a crazy person.

Edited July 21 by CosoMalvadoNG

[S074]

I personally consider Nyx a very effective Warframe. Her augmented absorb is great if you learn to build around it.

In any case I also think she can certainly benefit to have her skills be adjusted upwards.

Maybe have her mind control affect one or two more targets.

To me her psychic bolt are her helminth slot, and it's the skill that needs adjustment more than the others

Chaos, while hampered by overguard is still a really good CC to mitigate enemy pressure when needed.

Base absorb is fundamentally useless, while the augmented one can benefit from a little more mobility. I'd say run and basic jumps should still be allowed.

 

OP I'm optimistic and think she will come out improved, while the core things she currently does well  will not get affected.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 12 minutos, S074 dijo:

I personally consider Nyx a very effective Warframe. Her augmented absorb is great if you learn to build around it.

Seriously, the augment in absorb works well on what enemies? I seriously want to know if that ''works well'' is really good. Whatever nyx can do there are always a dozen warframes that do it better, that ''works well'' smacks of mediocrity to me, in addition to the fixed range in one ability that does not even have decent damage and while I agree that a good strategy is always fun, fun is not always efficient.

Edit: If you want a soulslike there are plenty games out there. 

Edited July 21 by CosoMalvadoNG

[S074]

6 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

the augment in absorb works well on what enemies

Almost any?

It provides me weapons and skill usage along with complete immortality.

Mod to manage the limited movement the skill imposes and you can deal all the damage you need to one-two shots pretty much anything with the right weapons.

[Pragmatic_2015]

I'm honestly hoping for a better passive. Psychic Bolts is the best in the game, only needs a single intensify to make work. Apart from that, even with her base model. She requires very little investment of forma to make work.

Hope this gives our only energy tank the respect she rightfully deserves.

[Otaku_Hyen]

The game is always changing in some ways and Nyx and Trinity are long passed those days where they had so much use. I can understand the fear if you lose something you used to and played but this rework could be a simple qol change or even be a better frame. There is always 50% if a change is good or not even if you not like a changes you can adapt to it. Other frames who got rework also had people whom liked that form of the frame but eventually if too many players find something old, unreliable or just no fun to play then you cannot hold back an incoming change. I saw how many players hated Hydroid, Yareli, Gyre, Wukong when they got changes, buffs or altered things. The one thing I did not see on forums was cry about super jump. 

 

Also one change is not the end of the world and a many frames actually getting their 3-4 times of reworks some just the first major. I am not worried about Trinity because I know what she capable and qol changes even ability merge is possible but actually could be much better. A better well of life or just an aura, better energy vampire, a longer duration link with additional buff. It can be duration based but also can be energy per second like how Oberon healing works. The blessing is more or less okay maybe cast times could be shorter or give her a better passive. With the light in the title these might be small qol changes but we will see it. Until not worth to start a funeral before you know what actually changing.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 13 minutos, S074 dijo:

Almost any?

It provides me weapons and skill usage along with complete immortality.

Mod to manage the limited movement the skill imposes and you can deal all the damage you need to one-two shots pretty much anything with the right weapons.

Complete immortality that disappears with 2 enemies shooting you some times in SP? It's a joke right?. I could do much, much more with Valkyr Hysteria with jumpStomp build, more faster, more efficient, much much more fun.

 

Edited July 21 by CosoMalvadoNG

[S074]

7 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Complete immortality that disappears with 2 enemies shooting you some times in SP? It's a joke right?

I'm not sure we play the same Nyx, she can take a lot of punishment before her energy runs out, even in steel path.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 24 minutos, S074 dijo:

I'm not sure we play the same Nyx, she can take a lot of punishment before her energy runs out, even in steel path.

Ok, you're right, maybe I'm exaggerating, but Valkyr still has immortality, good mobility and damage which far surpasses nyx's pseudo immortality.

Edited July 21 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Rhagius]

1 hour ago, Pragmatic_2015 said:

I'm honestly hoping for a better passive. Psychic Bolts is the best in the game, only needs a single intensify to make work. Apart from that, even with her base model. She requires very little investment of forma to make work.

Hope this gives our only energy tank the respect she rightfully deserves.

Every single shield gating build is basically an Energy Tank and I personally think absorb has nothing in common with nyx's theme of manipulating minds ( I don't see telekinesis as similar and so many frames can levitate things already), actually having anti-synergy with her kit and passive. And psychic bolt is the best what in the game? I don't think I can think of any aspect of psychic bolt that would put it above other abilities.

Her passive could be boosted to 50-75% considering xaku has that much + aoe DMG reduction. She should or could maybe be invisible for enemies affected by chaos or have chaos be a toggle aura  around her and her passive being invisible to enemies outside of combat (basically as long as she can concentrate on manipulating enemies around her).

Nyx could have been one of the coolest frame concepts and I feel like they have not realized any of the potential the theme has and gave her the most disappointing kit in the game and refused to really change it enough over the years to give her at least one thing that another frame can't do better (ffs we have 2 abilities that are better than chaos and mind control combined).

[Lord_Chibi]

10 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

''If I like something, even if it's horrendously bad, it shouldn't be changed because I like how bad it is'' You wrote a lot but this is what I read. 

Nyx is MEDIOCRE with capital letters, whether you like it or not doesn't make any difference when it comes to a rework.


Edit: This post it's a horrendous joke, I really want to believe that he's just a troll or something.

Getting a bit riled up are we?

No, this post seems legit considering there are still Grendel mains who miss eating 20 enemies or Hydroid mains who miss the puddle. The fact of the matter is any obscure ability with some use ends up being liked by some person and that's why people are afraid of a rework because DE has been shown to not only take away those abilities, but they also streamline the frame a ton which removes any challenge or skill ceiling to playing the frame.

To put it clearly, lets look at Loki. Loki has cc and stealth. Now, any meta player would say to play Wisp, because she has damage boosting, attack speed and health buffs, and is faster than Loki on top of having cc and stealth. However, the Loki player from 3 years before Wisp came out decided he loves Loki. He likes it when Loki gets a new augment or QoL, but he would absolutely hate it if de just removed one of his abilities and replaced it with a damage buff + dps ability, because that's what Wisp players like. The Wisp players however, already play Wisp, but they insist that Loki must be as good as Wisp because Wisp is just flat out better.

That's basically how all the Grendel and Hydroid mains feel. They don't mind extra damage, but they don't want the random ability they found all the uses of to suddenly be removed or streamlined to the point it's unrecognizable. If DE just removed Nyx's absorb or her 1 and said "oh well mind control is niche so we'll just give Nyx a damage buff" then yeah people who mained Nyx would be upset.

It also doesn't help that people argue that "if you want a challenge, then you should play a less used frame" if you're going to argue that all the lesser frames should suddenly be given the strength of the most powerful ones.

Edited July 22 by Lord_Chibi

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, Lord_Chibi dijo:

Getting a bit riled up are we?

That's fair, but the developers don't want 10 mains playing the warframe so they do reworks . In any case different does not mean worse but they are so used to their niches that they don't want changes, that sounds like tribal and religious behavior for me.

Hydroid is much more fun now objectively and without AFK mechanics.
Grendel and his 20 enemies sucked in, that was broken mechanic and it bothered the others in the squad that's why it was change it. 

I want it to be clear that this is a multiplayer and it doesn't matter if you want to play alone DE will always seek to favor the majority.

If you want the warframe that you love so much and that you surely abuse due to some broken mechanics not to change, you are just a lazy person and a toxic one at that. In life or wherever, the majority always matters more.

Edited July 22 by CosoMalvadoNG

[RichardKam]

What I worried the most is Pablo turning her into another generic "helminth slot - buff/debuff - armor strip - poor scaling 4" frame. Remember Hydroid? Yes, he is strong after rework. But at what cost?

Yeah, Nyx is not going to do 150 kill per minute in SP survival or do 4 minutes netracell, and I don't think any frame needs to do that anyway. Unfortunately it was being wrongfully used as a benchmark for a lot of frames today. A certain frame cannot destroy the whole map in a few buttons? Trash! Rework! D-tier!

Nyx is fine, especially for defense type mission like interception or mobile defense when time to kill is not critical to the mission. She is also fine when handling valuable targets like Lich Sister and Acolyte. She is actually also very fine in most of the SP missions when you can cast chaos and sit inside your bubble and armor strip bad guys and kill them one by one.

For veterans that are always power hungry, Nyx is not the best. But for new players and anyone who prefer a more laid-back play style, Nyx is the most comfy. It is easy to acquire her. Nyx is easy to build and to play. Get a Lich by mistake and cannot handle him? Go with Nyx.

"but her chaos can be easily replaced with radiation what is the poi-"

Until your radiation proc can cover the entire tileset with 1 minute duration and stun the aura of eximus, no, they are not the same.

[Xzorn]

I don't think they can screw up Nyx more than they did with her last rework.
She went from Queen of CC with 1,300+ in-mission play time for me to never playing her.

Very first thing I would do is bring back Psychic Bolts spam and their AoE Rad proc. Her passive is also a joke.
Also since you can't MC Eximus until they're 2/3 dead I don't see much point in that utility anymore either.

Toxic Ancient Healer used to be the bread and butter MC grab. Arson was funny too, whole map goes flying.

[Sojufueled]

There are just about 60 frames. The idea of playing one to the exclusion of others sounds pretty goofy to me.

[Xzorn]

33 minutes ago, Sojufueled said:

There are just about 60 frames. The idea of playing one to the exclusion of others sounds pretty goofy to me.

 

Depends how old the player is. On release there were only 12? I think.

At that time each was designed around role, purpose or playstyle. So it was easy to gravitate to a specific frame. They didn't have the "I do a little of everything" design current Warframe uses. In case of Nyx she was the best CC frame until Loki got his Disarm augment at which point they were still on par.

Until Nyx's rework despite years of CC hate, Nyx remained a top choice. So if that was your thing there was no reason to pick anything else.
It was actually their attempt to apply new frame "do everything designs" to Nyx that ruined her.

[_Anise_]

I feel like this was asking me? ok....
 

39 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Until your radiation proc can cover the entire tileset with 1 minute duration and stun the aura of eximus, no, they are not the same.

• her chaos has a 25m range with a 25s duration and costs 75 energy, its effect is causing them to attack random factions, that random faction can still include you!

 

• my sentinel can apply radiation indefinitely!! every few seconds that lasts 10 seconds to groups of enemies within 70 meters!(calculated shot) for free and spreads that out an additional 9 meters on kill, it will also hit the 7 closest targets to me every few seconds
• Those targets deal 100% damage to enemies of the tenno and an additional 50% damage per stack to a max of 550% increase damage! and forces the target to attack a random enemy but if there aren't' any and it attacks the tenno it has a bonus of inflicting reduced weapon accuracy....if that wasn't enough the rad proc also primes condition overload and growing power!

To summarize you're correct, they are not the same, the aoe radiation proc is arguably superior, it does soo much more and interacts with other mechanics in more interesting and meaningful ways, even lighting them up so you can tell who is effected! chaos is just outdated by comparison.

they could honestly improve chaos without taking anything away from it by simply making it apply increased duration stacks of radiation on cast instead....

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

Nyx is fine

if she were, she wouldn't be getting a rework?

[RichardKam]

18分钟前 , _Anise_ 说:

I feel like this was asking me? ok....
 

• her chaos has a 25m range with a 25s duration and costs 75 energy, its effect is causing them to attack random factions, that random faction can still include you!

 

• my sentinel can apply radiation indefinitely!! every few seconds that lasts 10 seconds to groups of enemies within 70 meters!(calculated shot) for free and spreads that out an additional 9 meters on kill, it will also hit the 7 closest targets to me every few seconds
• Those targets deal 100% damage to enemies of the tenno and an additional 50% damage per stack to a max of 550% increase damage! and forces the target to attack a random enemy but if there aren't' any and it attacks the tenno it has a bonus of inflicting reduced weapon accuracy....if that wasn't enough the rad proc also primes condition overload and growing power!

If you are deliberately not building for range duration and efficiency on Nyx and then comparing her with a fully built sentinel with weapons, yeah I am sure you are right, Chaos is trash.

And no I am not asking you.

18分钟前 , _Anise_ 说:

if she were, she wouldn't be getting a rework?

I specifically mentioned she is not the best.

If DE gives her a rework like Ember, yeah that would be great. A rework like Hydroid? No thanks.

Edited July 22 by RichardKam

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb S074:

I'm not sure we play the same Nyx, she can take a lot of punishment before her energy runs out, even in steel path.

Would you mind sharing your build for that?

[Rhagius]

3 hours ago, RichardKam said:

What I worried the most is Pablo turning her into another generic "helminth slot - buff/debuff - armor strip - poor scaling 4" frame. Remember Hydroid? Yes, he is strong after rework. But at what cost?

Yeah, Nyx is not going to do 150 kill per minute in SP survival or do 4 minutes netracell, and I don't think any frame needs to do that anyway. Unfortunately it was being wrongfully used as a benchmark for a lot of frames today. A certain frame cannot destroy the whole map in a few buttons? Trash! Rework! D-tier!

Nyx is fine, especially for defense type mission like interception or mobile defense when time to kill is not critical to the mission. She is also fine when handling valuable targets like Lich Sister and Acolyte. She is actually also very fine in most of the SP missions when you can cast chaos and sit inside your bubble and armor strip bad guys and kill them one by one.

For veterans that are always power hungry, Nyx is not the best. But for new players and anyone who prefer a more laid-back play style, Nyx is the most comfy. It is easy to acquire her. Nyx is easy to build and to play. Get a Lich by mistake and cannot handle him? Go with Nyx.

"but her chaos can be easily replaced with radiation what is the poi-"

Until your radiation proc can cover the entire tileset with 1 minute duration and stun the aura of eximus, no, they are not the same.

even for laid back sp there are better choices imho. and what cost was the rework for hydroid in your opinion, because i only see straight up positives there.
kills being the benchmark basically came to be because they decided to gut cc and to never implement something like loot getting getting a loot/exp multiplier based on overkill damage or enemies not noticing/ being able to act to give an alternative to killing faster for more outcome, so what else can be used to determine effectiveness?

[Rhagius]

5 hours ago, Lord_Chibi said:

It also doesn't help that people argue that "if you want a challenge, then you should play a less used frame" if you're going to argue that all the lesser frames should suddenly be given the strength of the most powerful ones.

you can bring up all frames to the exact same power level and people who want a challenge could still easily adjust their strength via modding, though.

Bad/ Outdated design should not be kept, just because some people are unwilling to face change. The fact that someone can spend so much time with the same frame as OP and not be glad to finally have some new things to discover sounds unfathomable to me, considering how stale the gameplay loop already is.

[RichardKam]

15分钟前 , Rhagius 说:

even for laid back sp there are better choices imho. and what cost was the rework for hydroid in your opinion, because i only see straight up positives there.

By almost stripping away his identity, and now all you have is a viral corrosive armor strip generic DPS frame. Yeah, straight up positives, still no one plays Hydroid.

Look. I am not against any improvement on Nyx. But there is recent Ember rework and there is Hydroid rework and Inaros rework. I am against turning Nyx into yet another generic DPS frame. If Pablo pulls another out of context shxt like "enemies under Chaos suffer from 5 random status effects at max stack" or "Psychic bolts now have 50% chance of proccing viral" I am going to riot.

[TennoPain]

I know but pls don't go we want you to stay I have lost many IRL and On Lyne friends due to newer playerbase and all the nerfs but wait for rework perhaps there is the way. There must be a way. Trust in DE.

[Drachnyn]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb RichardKam:

By almost stripping away his identity, and now all you have is a viral corrosive armor strip generic DPS frame. Yeah, straight up positives, still no one plays Hydroid.

Look. I am not against any improvement on Nyx. But there is recent Ember rework and there is Hydroid rework and Inaros rework. I am against turning Nyx into yet another generic DPS frame. If Pablo pulls another out of context shxt like "enemies under Chaos suffer from 5 random status effects at max stack" or "Psychic bolts now have 50% chance of proccing viral" I am going to riot.

I have a recurring question here. What was the identity of the frames you mentioned and how has it changed? Hydroid lost the puddle, but was that really his identity? Ember simply received some number buffs and one of her augments was made great. Is that a change of identity? Inaros rework removed devour and made sandstorm a good ability, was devour core to his identity? I dont even remember what that ability did and I played a ton of inaros in my early days of the game.

And for that matter, what is nyx' identity?