So is 1999 the actual year 1999 (of Warframe's universe)?

[Xiothin]

In my previous thread, there was a lot of back and forth about whether or not the 1999 update was actually set in the REAL 1999 or if it was just a void creation (similar to Duviri) by Albrecht Entrati based on his knowledge and interest of all things Pre-Orokin.

I'd like to believe Entrati genuinely just went back in time and experimented on the 1999 crew, changing who the original Excalibur Protoframe was. But there's evidence for it on both sides.

I am not saying it's OUR 1999 as DE representatives even said it's not, but it could be WARFRAME's version of the real 1999.

[SneakyErvin]

Yeah after the Tennocon info it seems to be an alternate 1999 that has gotten screwed up due to something. It wouldnt surprise me if Albrecht went back with the intent to change history by making the frame in order to fight Wally instead of waiting for "the chosen" Tenno. Then that screwed up since accidentaly some of it got out and infested 1999 era tech. Could be that Albrecht did his experiment, then went back to Duviri to use what he learned and then as he was away someone obtained the technocyte from his labs, like maybe the scaldra folks, which then led to the infestation. Or Albrecht let it out, or uhm maybe Wally, depending on if Wally is also there, or inside Albrecht.

But yeah, with what was shown, it seems clear they stick to eternalism and Eulerias explaination of what the void can do. As we could see the same stadium in the RJ segment as the one where Arthur destroys the tank and then follows Albrecht into the tunnels. So the RJ part and the part of the quest where Excal shows up are likely linked. It wouldnt surprise me that either the unannounced content patch or part of the 1999 quest takes place in that RJ segment, where the Excal ends up killing the boy band infested, followed by him finding his way into 1999 through the a "worm" on our side that spits him out in 1999.

[Xiothin]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah after the Tennocon info it seems to be an alternate 1999 that has gotten screwed up due to something. It wouldnt surprise me if Albrecht went back with the intent to change history by making the frame in order to fight Wally instead of waiting for "the chosen" Tenno. Then that screwed up since accidentaly some of it got out and infested 1999 era tech. Could be that Albrecht did his experiment, then went back to Duviri to use what he learned and then as he was away someone obtained the technocyte from his labs, like maybe the scaldra folks, which then led to the infestation. Or Albrecht let it out, or uhm maybe Wally, depending on if Wally is also there, or inside Albrecht.

But yeah, with what was shown, it seems clear they stick to eternalism and Eulerias explaination of what the void can do. As we could see the same stadium in the RJ segment as the one where Arthur destroys the tank and then follows Albrecht into the tunnels. So the RJ part and the part of the quest where Excal shows up are likely linked. It wouldnt surprise me that either the unannounced content patch or part of the 1999 quest takes place in that RJ segment, where the Excal ends up killing the boy band infested, followed by him finding his way into 1999 through the a "worm" on our side that spits him out in 1999.

I think it's set in Warframe's original 1999 but with history changed only because stuff in the past is affecting the future. An alternate timeline would be contained in its own universe, like how Duviri didn't affect anything in the Origin System, but 1999 DID.

[Corvid]

Pretty sure the idea is that Warframe's version of history doesn't line up 1:1 with that of real life. It's like how in Assassin's Creed (as a random example), human history is filled with all sorts of conspiracies and secret societies but the modern day is still mostly recognizable to us. Warframe is a bit further removed from the reality we know but has some broad similarities.

The fact that the "proto-orokin" written language is near-ubiquitous in the setting of 1999 (in fact, as far as I can recall the only diegetic text that doesn't use it is all related to On-lyne, which... honestly raises a few questions and/or red flags) without anybody having difficulty understanding or using it would indicate to me that the divergence happened long before Albrecht entered the scene.

[TARINunit9]

Glad I wasn't the only one tempted to start making a tinfoil hat on this one. If it wasn't for the Half Life merchandise in the internet cafe, I would start going on a weird theory that "1999" was actually "year 1999 of the Orokin calendar" i.e. hundreds of years after 1999 AD

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, Xiothin said:

I think it's set in Warframe's original 1999 but with history changed only because stuff in the past is affecting the future. An alternate timeline would be contained in its own universe, like how Duviri didn't affect anything in the Origin System, but 1999 DID.

It's all due to eternalism and the void. We go back to experience/observe one outcome of a 1999, which then also starts to effect a future point in our "future" reality, after points in our "future" reality where the events of that 1999 should have already had impact. So there are likely physical entry points tied specifically to that 1999 and our "future", which manages to make it not effect the past of that "future" reality. Because if the events of 1999 would have had impact from that moment onward, the infested of 1999 (and their sound pollution) would not have suddenly turned up thousands of years after The Old War for instance in our observed reality.

So we are probably looking at the Void linking different physical locations and occurnaces through time. Could be something done with intent by Wally. So all of the impacts the creation of the proto-frames and the appearance of the infestation in 1999 should have from that point on is skipped past, and instead ends up starting to effect the future reality we observe first after we've obtained a RJ and many other things long after our awakening.

Duviri actually affects alot in the Origin System. Everything we do in the Undercroft for instance is a reason why things happen as observed by our protagonist in reality. Every thing there is some form of mirrior of events that we can help change or turn out as they are supposed to. While some things are still unknown, because they are things that still havent happened for Teshin as he tries to guide us through the events shown.

However, since we deal with eternalism, there are also an infinite amount of other outcomes in 1999 that also happen at the same time, some of which also alters the reality of the future from that point on directly. But the reality we observe/experience stays intact from what happens in the 1999 we observe/experience up until the point of the RJ segment we saw, as far as we know now atleast.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Based on the fact that Rebecca mentioned that (paraphrasing since I don't remember her exact wording) the On-Lyne "Liches" is what happens when you let a computer virus sit for a few thousand years, it sounds like there is a direct link between the year 1999 that Arthur experiences and the present time of our Tenno.  Since causality is one of the key features of everything "non-void", that means that Albrecht's 1999 is not an alternate reality of any kind; rather, it is the 1999 that sits on the same strand of Khra (or timeline, in non-Warframe-speak) that the Tenno's current reality sits on.

Whether Albrecht altered that timeline or whether it was simply always that way is something we are not yet privy to.

Edited July 21 by (PSN)Unstar
phrasing

[(XBOX)Omega399]

Really, the only thing throwing a wrench into stuff is the old Proto-Skins and some of the early Infested weapons, since they together imply that Dark Sector's timeline exists to some capacity.

Which maybe it still does? But who knows with Void Devilry.

[Xiothin]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Based on the fact that Rebecca mentioned that (paraphrasing since I don't remember her exact wording) the On-Lyne "Liches" is what happens when you let a computer virus sit for a few thousand years, it sounds like there is a direct link between the year 1999 that Arthur experiences and the present time of our Tenno.  Since causality is one of the key features of everything "non-void", that means that Albrecht's 1999 is not an alternate reality of any kind; rather, it is the 1999 that sits on the same strand of Khra (or timeline, in non-Warframe-speak) that the Tenno's current reality sits on.

Whether Albrecht altered that timeline or whether it was simply always that way is something we are not yet privy to.

Yeah it was heavily implied that Y2K on some level was a real thing in the Warframe universe, as in it actually happened and could quite possibly be related to the infested/scaldria outbreak. We know Albrecht becomes the main antagonist of 1999.

I think what might have happened is Albrecht came back right before stuff hit the fan, Man in the Wall follows him, huge infested outbreak, Albrecht may have convinced Arthur and his friends (likely already having some small military experience themselves in some capacity, or at the very least Arthur and Quincy might) to be augmented after the infested outbreak had already begun to help them combat it then comes possession via Man in the Wall, then hostile takeover of the planet.

I'm willing to bet Wally-Albrecht is backed by others he also experimented on once he became a pawn of the man in the wall, other proto-frames that WANTED to help him and are evil/bad guys, like the lady with the Scaldria.

But really all of this could have happened in any order at any time.

Edit: Just realized Y2K could not have happened due to the year 2000 being connected to Y2K and not 1999, my bad lmao.

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Omega399 said:

Really, the only thing throwing a wrench into stuff is the old Proto-Skins and some of the early Infested weapons, since they together imply that Dark Sector's timeline exists to some capacity.

Which maybe it still does? But who knows with Void Devilry.

It very well might have, but that doesn't mean it'd have to be significant in any way to the timeline of Warframe. Hayden is kinda weak sauce for this franchise, I think even someone like Teshin could potentially kick his ass.

Edited July 22 by Xiothin

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Omega399 said:

Really, the only thing throwing a wrench into stuff is the old Proto-Skins and some of the early Infested weapons, since they together imply that Dark Sector's timeline exists to some capacity.

They did at the time (circa 2014 IRL) but as far as I know DE don't really hold the rights to darkSector anymore. The publishing rights are split between D3 Inc, Aspyr, and Noviy Disk (as opposed to Warframe's publishing rights which are officially held by DE, which are themselves owned by Leyou). And the 2009 PC port of darkSector wasn't even made by DE, that was done in-house by Aspyr and Noviy, while DE were busy scraping money together to put together Warframe

Honestly the real nail in the coffin for me is proto-Excalibur being named "Arthur" instead of "Hayden." That really feels like they're officially giving up on the original "Hayden Tenno" protagonist and moving forward

[Zahnrad]

Something I've been thinking about. I think the idea is that the world has already been in trouble for an unspecified amount of time, and Entrati has been in their era for months, maybe years.

But I guess the Protoframes have to stop Entrati before Y2K hits, or it reaches a point of no return.

 

I think the first time we saw 1999 is what happens if the countdown reaches 0 before stopping Entrati.

And we need to ensure that doesn't happen, maybe 1999 is in a perpetual state of Groundhog Day in that regard where the date is always December 31st 1999.

[AtsiaZ]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Omega399 said:

Really, the only thing throwing a wrench into stuff is the old Proto-Skins and some of the early Infested weapons, since they together imply that Dark Sector's timeline exists to some capacity.

Which maybe it still does? But who knows with Void Devilry.

It doesn't. DE has long established that Dark Sector had no relevance/connection to Warframe. Anything of it are fun references (Proto Excalibur) or just happy accident (default Drifter).

[(PSN)MYKK678]

Why are people guessing in the firstplace? There's literal Dialogue in Whispers in the Wall that answers this.

[Xiothin]

9 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Why are people guessing in the firstplace? There's literal Dialogue in Whispers in the Wall that answers this.

Like? I just played through Whispers in the Wall and to me it confirmed nothing.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Zahnrad said:

Something I've been thinking about. I think the idea is that the world has already been in trouble for an unspecified amount of time, and Entrati has been in their era for months, maybe years.

But I guess the Protoframes have to stop Entrati before Y2K hits, or it reaches a point of no return.

 

I think the first time we saw 1999 is what happens if the countdown reaches 0 before stopping Entrati.

And we need to ensure that doesn't happen, maybe 1999 is in a perpetual state of Groundhog Day in that regard where the date is always December 31st 1999.

He has been there for a while and more than once. As Albrecht mentions in his notes he went to "1999" and made his frames out of Arthur and the others, then also took samples from them and then went back to Deimos again, which then resulted in atleast the Vessels, but he also mentiones something about the grey strain. And then we get to see him go back there again prepped and ready in 90's clothing. How long he has been there this time we dont know, but we know he has been there atleast twice.

One thing I'm considering is that the Entrati that Arthur and his gang are hunting isnt actually Entrati, but Wally instead, or a Wally possessed Entrati that Arthur and the others just think is Entrati. Since we know there are two Wally, one looking like Entrati, since we see that at the end of WitW.

And when we go through the vault in Netracells we can see that entrati had planned what to do with people in "1999" before going there, since there are blueprint clutter on the walls of both Arthur and Aoi.

[ChaoticEdge]

To break down confusion, let me sum it down to caveman common sense, "void magic" that is all and if you want additional words "Enternalism complexion" and nothing to it and nothing add more for it the fact we are dealing with timeline happen and not happen, a paradox cross each other base on the tree and don't even know why the branch fuse the other branches for got the roots and branches for don't like to gamble logic of time or eternalism word try figure out what is pure logic.  It just all the branches end up being the base of the tree and still fusing each, the base of the tree with branches and roots for complex is too long to explain every detail for branches become a tree and the roots are now branches as the tree just the root for the cycle continue the confusion.

 

Edited July 22 by ChaoticEdge

[(PSN)MYKK678]

5 hours ago, Xiothin said:

Like? I just played through Whispers in the Wall and to me it confirmed nothing.

Then you missed it;

Do not patronize the Tenno, fish. The strands of Khra are merely Void-renderings of the chains of cause and effect. Conceptually embodied timelines, if you will."

We already know what Conceptual Embodiment is from Duviri, just like how it showed us there's a paradox regarding Kuva considering what it is, and explaining what The Wall of Bone is actually after. Duviri in essence was one huge Lore Dump regarding long standing questions, one too many people bullet-jumped their way through and missed.

Edited July 22 by (PSN)MYKK678
.

[Xiothin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Then you missed it;

Do not patronize the Tenno, fish. The strands of Khra are merely Void-renderings of the chains of cause and effect. Conceptually embodied timelines, if you will."

We already know what Conceptual Embodiment is from Duviri, just like how it showed us there's a paradox regarding Kuva considering what it is, and explaining what The Wall of Bone is actually after. Duviri in essence was one huge Lore Dump regarding long standing questions, one too many people bullet-jumped their way through and missed.

But the entire Origin System is on one Strand of Khra, Duviri was on a different one. 1999 has to be on the same strand as the one we play in.

[Xiothin]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

He has been there for a while and more than once. As Albrecht mentions in his notes he went to "1999" and made his frames out of Arthur and the others, then also took samples from them and then went back to Deimos again, which then resulted in atleast the Vessels, but he also mentiones something about the grey strain. And then we get to see him go back there again prepped and ready in 90's clothing. How long he has been there this time we dont know, but we know he has been there atleast twice.

One thing I'm considering is that the Entrati that Arthur and his gang are hunting isnt actually Entrati, but Wally instead, or a Wally possessed Entrati that Arthur and the others just think is Entrati. Since we know there are two Wally, one looking like Entrati, since we see that at the end of WitW.

And when we go through the vault in Netracells we can see that entrati had planned what to do with people in "1999" before going there, since there are blueprint clutter on the walls of both Arthur and Aoi.

Well yes, it is Wally without a doubt, I do think it's just a single Wally possessing both entities to do different tasks. I mean it was heavily implied if not outright confirmed he was Wally as of the short 1999 demo we played.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

1 hour ago, Xiothin said:

But the entire Origin System is on one Strand of Khra, Duviri was on a different one. 1999 has to be on the same strand as the one we play in.

2 big questions arise.

1) Where does it say the Origin System is part of the Strands of Khra at all?

2) Why does 1999 "have to" be on the same strand?

[GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-07-21 at 9:16 AM, Xiothin said:

In my previous thread, there was a lot of back and forth about whether or not the 1999 update was actually set in the REAL 1999 or if it was just a void creation (similar to Duviri) by Albrecht Entrati based on his knowledge and interest of all things Pre-Orokin.

I'd like to believe Entrati genuinely just went back in time and experimented on the 1999 crew, changing who the original Excalibur Protoframe was. But there's evidence for it on both sides.

I am not saying it's OUR 1999 as DE representatives even said it's not, but it could be WARFRAME's version of the real 1999.

I think it is another (Warframe) 1999 that Dr. Entrati uses, where Wally shakes our hand and we witness several versions of us dying. Since there's no point of caring about what happens in those other "forks" in the universe, the good doctor is free to utilize "those people" as he sees fit. After all, Dr. Entrati is not afraid to harness the scientific reasoning of "for the greater good", so why not utilize what was destined to die anyway? 

My evidence points to the posters in the mall. The posters show him in a godly like pose, which implies he was very highly praised. They don't know that he created the problem in the first place, but it allows him to experiment as the savior. 

[Xiothin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

2 big questions arise.

1) Where does it say the Origin System is part of the Strands of Khra at all?

2) Why does 1999 "have to" be on the same strand?

Everything in the Warframe verse is part of the Strands of Khra, there is a timeline, a timeline in general is a Strand of Khra. Every single timeline is part of it. The Fragmented Ones are trying to tie down our timeline/Strand of Khra as well.

It has to be in the same strand because Rebecca said the Coda Worms have been festering since 1999, unless you wanna argue it specifically festered from one universe to ours, or even to all different timelines.

As far as I can tell Entrati is doing his own thing and wouldn't have much to do with Coda Worms as they're directly affiliated with the Infested whereas Entrati is directly affiliated with Wally and the Murmurs.

Edited July 23 by Xiothin

[(PSN)MYKK678]

11 minutes ago, Xiothin said:

Everything in the Warframe verse is part of the Strands of Khra, there is a timeline, a timeline in general is a Strand of Khra. Every single timeline is part of it. The Fragmented Ones are trying to tie down our timeline/Strand of Khra as well.

It has to be in the same strand because Rebecca said the Coda Worms have been festering since 1999, unless you wanna argue it specifically festered from one universe to ours, or even to all different timelines.

As far as I can tell Entrati is doing his own thing and wouldn't have much to do with Coda Worms as they're directly affiliated with the Infested whereas Entrati is directly affiliated with Wally and the Murmurs.

See here's the problem. Warframe has introduced multiple different concepts, and every single time something confusing comes up, folks try to tie it all together using every single one of the concepts instead of just what's relevant.

Khra does indeed mean Time. Strands of Khra can certainly be attributed to or translated to "Time Strands" or "Time Lines". But nobody ever told you the Origin System is part of that, that's an assumption. Khra and the Strands of Khra originate from the Void, a place literally outside of the Origin Systems Spacetime. The only reason someone would attribute the Origin System to the Strands of Khra is because they mistakenly decided to try to tie everything together using Eternalism. That has no place here.

The Strands of Khra are Conceptual Embodied Timelines. Before they didn't exist, now they do. But they don't represent the main Origin Systems past. Didn't you ever wonder why Albrecht Entrati thought The Wall of Bone couldn't follow him to 1999? If you follow the theory you're talking about to its conclusion, The Wall of Bone would have easy access to time travel and to 1999. But Albrecht was certain it would at least be difficult for it. Instead of focusing on Eternalism, folks should have focused more on Duviri. Albrecht knew because of his experience in Duviri. The Wall of Bone tried and failed multiple times to gain access to Duviri, which at best led to Islands disappearing, but ultimately failure to access fully, even after Rells death. Duviri is proof to Albrecht that the Wall of Bone has difficulty gaining access to Conceptual Embodiment created places.

[0_The_F00l]

What I think is happening is DE will not explain anything and leave things vague enough and inconsistent enough to not have a satisfactory answer so they can revisit it later in any way they please.

What I personally think is that there are were two 1999 ,

one is a historical alternate universe in the past which has already died off (by which i mean humanity has ceased to exist) by the year 2000 (due to whatever reason, maybe a plague or nuclear devastation) 

and the other is what we play in , still doomed , but entrati is trying to manipulate things to find ways to overcome wally , it's the one where he has so far has some success for his own goals (the actual success of humanity is not a priority for entrati.) it's possible this world is a torn off part of the original or a conceptual embodiment of the original in a limited space and looped time.

Edited July 23 by 0_The_F00l

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Xiothin said:

Everything in the Warframe verse is part of the Strands of Khra, there is a timeline, a timeline in general is a Strand of Khra. Every single timeline is part of it. The Fragmented Ones are trying to tie down our timeline/Strand of Khra as well.

It has to be in the same strand because Rebecca said the Coda Worms have been festering since 1999, unless you wanna argue it specifically festered from one universe to ours, or even to all different timelines.

As far as I can tell Entrati is doing his own thing and wouldn't have much to do with Coda Worms as they're directly affiliated with the Infested whereas Entrati is directly affiliated with Wally and the Murmurs.

The Origin System is outside of the Void. The Void only spills through into the system, which is what gave the Orokin access to Void based technology when they discovered it. Duviri on the otherhand is inside a pocket within the Void, both being effected by the Void and shielded from it partially by the membrane that blocks the Void from flooding reality (the Origin system outside of the void).

So the thing @(PSN)MYKK678highlights gives a clear indication that 1999 is a conceptual place. Which wouldnt be all that wierd since the void is in itself timeless, so whatever has gone into it in some way at some point will leave a form of imprint. The Orokin are the first known to have entered the void, but that doesnt mean other things from the past have not ended up there and resulted in worlds similar to Duviri. We also dont know if Albrecht has an interest in history and simply created 1999 as his safe place after having been to Duviri. There must have been a reason why he built a lab on Duviri and then mysteriously disappeared. Maybe he created 1999 while on Duviri, then went back to Deimos to plan what to do with it (hence Aoi and Arthur schematics on the walls). Maybe 1999 was the isle where his lab was that disappeared.