Why is Parvos our enemy?

[PollexMessier]

I'm still really unclear on this. During his introduction he exhibited a clear disdain for the corpus' current state of slavery and excessive greed. And after that quest he offered us a place on the board of directors... and we turned him down??? Like bro literally said "Hey help me fix this" and Eudico (note: one of the debt internment slaves Parvos was so verbally against Nef having) was just like "Nah ur too sus bro" with 0 evidence of any malicious intent, and we were just like "yah what she said I guess". The sisters only attack us because we attack them first. Honestly it's even a bit of a stretch to say they attack us at all when engagements with them are almost entirely us pursuing them and trying to provoke them into a fight. All they take from us on controlled planets is a minuscule credit tax. And honestly, given that in those instances we're killing hundreds of their men and demolishing whole bases of operation, they are really surprisingly chill about it. Like imagine blowing up a military base and the commander's just like: "Hah! Well I got to keep this quarter that fell out of your pocket, nerd!" and then only showing up to actually do something about it after you've done that 12 more times.

The only time we've seen Parvos act remotely malicious is the recent jade shadows stuff. And if you follow the chain of events: Stalker attacks them first, they pursue stalker to get back what he stole form them, they discover jade, they then pursue the powerful remnants of her body as a power source which isn't even that malicious as much as just cold pragmatism. I don't think it'd be much of a stretch to say he might have respected our opinion on the matter if we'd agreed to be his ally earlier.

I haven't really paid too much attention to the Levarian stuff but I feel like at least a discussion about that would have been on the table if we took that board position too.

Our antagonism with him just doesn't make any sense to me. Alad is more of a directly malicious antagonist and we've allied with him at least a few times. What pits us against Parvos so hard?

Edited July 30 by PollexMessier

[ominumi]

He has too much self interest. That's it. He has a history of using people for his own gain. Aside from that, it isn't that he's an enemy. More like conflict of interest. The Tenno just doesn't gain anything dealing with Parvos. Just look at Glast. The Tenno is using him at the same time he's using the Tenno. 

[TARINunit9]

19 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

and Eudico (note: one of the debt internment slaves Parvos was so verbally against Nef having) was just like "Nah ur too sus bro" with 0 evidence of any malicious intent, and we were just like "yah what she said I guess"

Source on this part?

[PublikDomain]

Personally I find Parvos downright dangerous. Unlike the other Corpus who are motivated by simple greed, Parvos has plans. He has a goal that isn't just "hurr durr money" and we don't know what that goal is. But we know he's working towards it!

43 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

which isn't even that malicious as much as just cold pragmatism.

He is coldly pragmatic, and that's what makes him such a big threat in the game's sea of goofy villainy.

[Kaiga]

Parvos granum founded the corpus ideology and is the lead figure of worship in the Cult of Kapital.

Seriously, there's statues of him everywhere and even little drones that project his visage floating around. Unfortunately, the corpus ideology is inherently whatever is the most profitable rising to the top and beating out competitors, hence the Solaris debt slaves, chained up prisoners on parvosian ships being sacrificed into the void, the deranged warframe experiments, and so on. 

The parvos might not be evil just for the fun of it like vay hek or the worm queen, but he and the corpus as a whole are distinctly amoral and something that needs to be stopped by the tenno.

[Alguien]

46 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

During his introduction he exhibited a clear disdain for the corpus' current state of slavery and excessive greed.

"Disdain for excessive greed"? Parvos Granum? The same guy who rose to glory by stealing from the Orokin? The one whose tenets literally tell you to use greed as fuel for your ambitions? To take what you desire? To deceive others for your own gain? 
Yeah, I don't think he had a disdain for the current corpus greed but more for them not having built their own fortunes and just being rich and powerful from hand-me-downs from their predecessors, especially considering it was a verbal assault against Nerf Anyo in particular.
I would question how much disdain he has for slavery too, considering one of his tenets is "charity is power", which to me feels like a way of saying "Make people have a debt to you so you can control them" and seeing what he did to Drusus...well...
 

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

And after that quest he offered us a place on the board of directors... and we turned him down???

I am pretty sure this was only an offer if he had to remake the Corpus board of directors, and probably only to prepare for the New War, after that, and considering his past, is perhaps a "every man for himself" situation

 

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

they then pursue the powerful remnants of her body as a power source which isn't even that malicious as much as just cold pragmatism.

Two things:
Is not just "as a power source" but "as a power source to create a new weapon", the Jade Eximus, so I think that's a little malicious
Especially if you consider the second thing: He is basically graverobbing and using Jade remains for said weapon, which goes a little beyond just "cold pragmatism"
Then again, as one of his tenets says "Shun sentimentality. It is a weakness that binds the idle man.", so no surprise he doesn't care about respecting the death

[RLanzinger]

@PollexMessier : "What pits us against Parvos so hard ?"

First : He made a deal with the Orokin; The Ultimate SKOOOOM of the knowed universe; That alone is an instant Deathmark from US...

Second : During the Quest, Even NEF was afraid of Parvos; Nef is greedy, unrealiable but when he make a cosmic mistake (his signature move since ever...) you can guess that the mistake NEED to be fixed !

Third : They tried to steal the Tempestar which is a MAJOR crime to me; Deathmark II

Four : He tried to size Zariman-10-0 for his own purpose : Deathmark III

Five : He tried to steal all Leverian treasures for himself : Deathmark IV

Six : He made my tiny Ordis angry with his lame remark.... : Deathmark V

 

Do I need to details any further ?

Do I need to said that I was for the execution of Salad V ?

[Agall]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

I'm still really unclear on this. During his introduction he exhibited a clear disdain for the corpus' current state of slavery and excessive greed.

Just like other organizations, fictional and realistic, they can have altruistic goals that are just executed poorly. The Corpus and Parvos being an example of that. Even in a good state, the Corpus is still a cult and Parvos is a cult leader.

[OniDax]

He's supposed to be a cult leader. DE wants the Corpus to be like a religion. Originally, they were supposed to worship technology. Nef Anyo is characterized like a prosperity gospel preacher. Parvos Granum is characterized like a Christian cult leader. That's why the Sisters are called such and why they all have Southern (US) accents. It's very on-the-nose. So, Parvos isn't supposed to be some good Corpus guy. He's a different flavor of what many consider to be the bad parts of Christianity (not sure if DE views all of Christianity that way or just some of it that way).

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Like imagine blowing up a military base and the commander's just like: "Hah! Well I got to keep this quarter that fell out of your pocket, nerd!" and then only showing up to actually do something about it after you've done that 12 more times.

except to the corpus, even that is but a drop in the bucket: the entire corpus army is many millions, maybe even BILLIONS strong, when you think of how many planets they occupy, how many massive fleets there are in space etc... they can go toe to toe with the Grineer and win, and the Grineer are constantly pumping out clones. the only reason they don't is because there's no money in it, and the Grineer are likely to buy weapons from them sometimes.

5 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

they then pursue the powerful remnants of her body as a power source which isn't even that malicious as much as just cold pragmatism.

he wanted to make even more powerful war machines, an army of them in fact, with jade's motes. that female captain in the quest was ordered to take the baby from them, but that's where she drew the line. if you genuinely don't think kidnapping an unborn baby and using it to make war machines is evil, then I think your sense of morality is either absent or horribly, horribly warped.

5 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I haven't really paid too much attention to the Levarian stuff but I feel like at least a discussion about that would have been on the table if we took that board position too.

the situation with Dante was simply that Granum wanted the Leverian for himself, he didn't care how Drusus gave everything he had for it, or that Dante was Drusus' close friend, he simply wanted to take it because he could, and he did. Parvos' tenets outright teach that sentimentality is weakness. emotion makes you fragile. if he were going to improve the leverian or something in a way that Drusus can't, it'd be fine, but he doesn't: he just wants it for his own personal use. it's likely that even if he were to allow others to use it, it would be repainted with a "new" history, one that glorifies the Corpus. you know the kind of person that likes to change historical facts for their own benefit? that's right, dictators!

Parvos also showed his truly sociopathci side in the dialogue ofr the operation, how he tries to tempt Ordin Karris by talking about how much he enjoyed violence, how he goes into detail about how Cephalons Die and Ordis will regret his decision to help Jade.. usually he hides his hatred behind his cunning and a veil of diplomacy, but here we got to see it laid bare. when the formalities of business are no longer required, when he believes he has the upper hand, Parvos is as villainous as they come.

he doesn't need to conduct cruel experiments like Alad V or Enslave people like Nef Anyo to be evil: he just needs to be willing to do what others won't and never think of the consequences that affect others. that is someone that needs to be stopped, at all costs. 

 

[Loza03]

If you go back through his origin with a critical eye and remember that he's the one telling the story, the truth becomes clear.

 

He's a cult leader and a loan shark. As much as he teaches tenants of hard work, what he actually did was offer loans to people, presumably with interest so when they got paid back he was richer. He also encouraged those who he offered loans to to offer loans in turn, with the loaned money. Once he was able to pay off the initial loan he took, he became the big daddy at the top of the heap of multi-level marketing debt. Every time he dispensed money, he dispensed his religious ideology. In other words, the ones in the most debt to him specifically and his biggest earners are by extension those with the largest understanding of his teachings. Anyone interested in the religion gets out more loans they don't need and anyone in desperate need of money gets slowly indoctrinated as they associated getting money - and in turn food and shelter - with these words. Gradually, therefore, he accrues a central collective of rich, powerful people who are also utterly indebted to him and who are true believers in his faith.

And all at the behest of a mysterious 'whisper'... which Dante's Leverian card suggests is the Man in the Wall, somehow.

 

Yeah, Parvos is EVIL evil. It's just that unlike Nef and Alad, he's actually competent at hiding it.

[PollexMessier]

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

If you go back through his origin with a critical eye and remember that he's the one telling the story, the truth becomes clear.

 

He's a cult leader and a loan shark. As much as he teaches tenants of hard work, what he actually did was offer loans to people, presumably with interest so when they got paid back he was richer. He also encouraged those who he offered loans to to offer loans in turn, with the loaned money. Once he was able to pay off the initial loan he took, he became the big daddy at the top of the heap of multi-level marketing debt. Every time he dispensed money, he dispensed his religious ideology. In other words, the ones in the most debt to him specifically and his biggest earners are by extension those with the largest understanding of his teachings. Anyone interested in the religion gets out more loans they don't need and anyone in desperate need of money gets slowly indoctrinated as they associated getting money - and in turn food and shelter - with these words. Gradually, therefore, he accrues a central collective of rich, powerful people who are also utterly indebted to him and who are true believers in his faith.

And all at the behest of a mysterious 'whisper'... which Dante's Leverian card suggests is the Man in the Wall, somehow.

 

Yeah, Parvos is EVIL evil. It's just that unlike Nef and Alad, he's actually competent at hiding it.

Thank you, that's exactly the sort of answer I was hoping to see.

[PollexMessier]

21 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Source on this part?

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxdDmCMKXsKkeBl-WTnACjCdH1BWYf4QlR

This is the dialogue I was thinking of with that.

Edited July 31 by PollexMessier

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I can see that you are an enlightened freedom thinker, not easily manipulated by warring tribes with silver tongues. I salute your open mindedness. Progress always comes entangled with risk, with violence, some fools are simply too naive to understand both our visions of greatness nor the necessity of trampling over their sunk costs, imposed ideals, hand-me-down hopes.

Would you like to see a link to my Patreon? Surely someone of your prowess can recognise an opportunity when it presents itself. Of course I don't intend to offer you a deal where you only give to me, far from it. I am here to give to you as well. Life's just a bargain like any other. Yours is no different. So what about you? Tell me, friend: What is it you Desire? What is your Patreon? What is it that motivates and incentivise's your goals?

Do you know the problem with glass, OP? It is so very fragile. But you wouldn't be standing on glass or next to a glass window would you... OP?

Basically he is a "subtle" type of antagonist where a lot of his threat and danger is implicit and because of how competent and careful his words are. He doesn't always say things that sound outright or obviously greedy or ill intentioned. Some other Corpus are more overtly greedy and manipulative and controlling. Almost in a silly sense, but Parvos contrasts well, in comparison and because he can also be so biting and antagonistic against the current Corpus as well. You'd almost think an enemy of my enemy is my friend, but sometimes those types of "friends" make for the most dangerous types of enemies too. The snake unseen being more dangerous than the snake chortling about grofit in a lampshade top hat. (Everything I wrote above of basically are just slightly altered Parvos quotes, but with my intent to flatter and deceive and then threaten, you know, for comical effect). 

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxdDmCMKXsKkeBl-WTnACjCdH1BWYf4QlR

This is the dialogue I was thinking of with that.

Yeah that takes place before Eudico meets Parvos

We have no idea why Eudico and Parvos fell out after the quest. There's a missing chapter, and best I can tell we're meant to infer from the following quests that Parvos is actually still like 90% evil. The man claims to champion "charity," but his definition of charity is actually just being a ruthless loan shark. He claims the Corpus need to have the rot cut out, but the only thing he has to replace them with is a military dictatorship consisting of himself and his sibling incest fetish.

Parvos is our enemy because Parvos is evil

[Xycelium]

Yeah I think it's quite obvious that the leader of a capitalist cult machine that destroys planets and enslaves entire populations of people for the sake of profit would be our enemy.

[Xycelium]

Honestly, Parvos is probably the most evil because he views anything within his own vicinity of being his own property. Whether it's Jade or the Leverium, as long as Parvos can get his hands on it, he will claim its of his own.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he already claims the Amalgams as his own creations too.