Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[RichardKam]

4分钟前 , PublikDomain 说:

Things that deal damage should deal enough damage to kill.

As for the rest, you're just making things again. The answer is no.

Thank you for defeating your own argument. I have no further comment.

[PublikDomain]

5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Why force that role on him?

Why strip that role from him?

6 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Mods provide the "incremental" part while weapon tiers the power spike part.

The top rated Vulkar Wraith (U36) build currently on overframe deals 91k Sustained DPS (with the Riven swapped out for something else). Without mods it deals 374. That's a 243x increase.

The top rated Rubico Prime (U36) build currently on overframe deals 103k Sustained DPS. Without mods it deals 489. That's a 210x increase.

And switching from the Vulkar Wraith to the Rubico Prime is only a 1.13x increase.

Which is the "power spike" part, here? The 243x, the 210x, or the 1.13x?

24 minutes ago, kuciol said:

How would you balance the weapon when weapon platform Chroma is vastly superior to full support Trinity?

Do you not remember Castanas Trin?

But more to your point, you don't. Your "full support Trinity" can be vastly superior than Chroma for other things and that's fine. But maybe tone things down so they're only  "superior" at their special thing instead of being "vastly superior". Because then you could have a support-focused Chroma or a damage-focused Trin. Will support-focused Chroma be better at supporting than a fully dedicated support Trin? No. But he could still be decent.

33 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Do you take buffs into account when balancing? What about arcanes? Dont forget about rivens!

No, because the same buff to Weapon A will do the same things for Weapon B. The same mods on Weapon A will - with the exception of Crit mods - do the same things for Weapon B. The same Arcanes on Weapon A will do the same things for Weapon B. And Rivens, which I'm glad you bring up, are specifically intended to balance weapons out and make them more equal - not that they're very good at it.

26 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Thank you for defeating your own argument. I have no further comment.

Not sure why you think that, but ok.

[MrInubis]

15 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Why strip that role from him?

Because he was never meant to be that.

 

16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

No, because the same buff to Weapon A will do the same things for Weapon B. The same mods on Weapon A will - with the exception of Crit mods - do the same things for Weapon B. The same Arcanes on Weapon A will do the same things for Weapon B. And Rivens, which I'm glad you bring up, are specifically intended to balance weapons out and make them more equal - not that they're very good at it.

No you dont understand what im asking for. Do you balance TTK of lets say 10s for Chroma or Trinity? With arcanes or without? If for Chroma than Trinity is unplayable, if for Trinity its what we have now.

 

18 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Do you not remember Castanas Trin?

But more to your point, you don't. Your "full support Trinity" can be vastly superior than Chroma for other things and that's fine. But maybe tone things down so they're only  "superior" at their special thing instead of being "vastly superior". Because then you could have a support-focused Chroma or a damage-focused Trin. Will support-focused Chroma be better at supporting than a fully dedicated support Trin? No. But he could still be decent.

So you literally want to rebalance whole game and turn it into something it isn't. Weapon buff is Chromas trademark, you want to take that away from him and make them pretty much irrelevant. You will make it to weak and nobody will play him.

 

21 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

The top rated Vulkar Wraith (U36) build currently on overframe deals 91k Sustained DPS (with the Riven swapped out for something else). Without mods it deals 374. That's a 243x increase.

But its incremental upgraded, you get that step by step. There is no power spike like going from vaykor hek to phenmor.

 

54 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Things that deal damage should deal enough damage to kill.

Thats the shallowest way of thinking ever. Ophanim eyes do dmg, should they kill? What about Vaubans orbs? Maybe Calibans summons too? By buffing abilities you reenable afk playstyle that DE is actively trying to get rid off.

[dwqrf]

il y a 26 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Without mods it deals 374. That's a 243x increase.

The top rated Rubico Prime (U36) build currently on overframe deals 103k Sustained DPS. Without mods it deals 489. That's a 210x increase.

And switching from the Vulkar Wraith to the Rubico Prime is only a 1.13x increase.

Which is the "power spike" part, here? The 243x, the 210x, or the 1.13x?

 

il y a 27 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Not sure why you think that, but ok.

 

[Loza03]

I'm just gonna make a note from my most recent play session.

I miss shotguns. Like, using Shotguns properly in this game. And I don't mean Sobek Saryn Acid Shells 'nuke the whole map'. I don't mean Strun Incarnon's rocket launcher where you use the shotgun for like 3 hits whilst you build it up. I don't mean Phantasma. I barely mean the Cedo with how much the Ricochet shot is a part of its design. I don't mean Plasmor-type shotguns either, though they are cool.

 

I mean 'point at center mass, pull the trigger, there is no more center mass'. I mean the rhythmic booms. I mean the god damn Tigris Prime, and the Exergis and the Corinth.

But lets be honest, the way the game is now, killing one enemy every couple seconds just isn't really going to be worth it again.

[Slayer-.]

10 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Am I the only one that thinks most cosmetics are super clunky?

 

Some are dope, though. I typically find that any really good ones were designed by users.

Yes some look clunky and some look awesome, I have ones I like but until DE makes it I can raise the camera a little so the cosmetic doesn't block the crosshair.

It takes ages sometimes to find that right combination of fashion looks that makes my eyeballs happy. 🙌

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

20 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Wait what ? What do you mean, I don't understand.

Once you reach the stars there's no coming back

[dwqrf]

Il y a 20 heures, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

Warframe is held back by suspending it's best playerbase for 10 years without any reason.

= Equal =

il y a 5 minutes, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

Once you reach the stars there's no coming back

Gotcha.... hu no, I still didn't understand.

But I do agree with the second statement. But you can find other stars to aim for, too.


 

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

25 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

= Equal =

Gotcha.... hu no, I still didn't understand.
But I do agree with the second statement. But you can find other stars to aim for, too.

=+= = # :)
mb for not reading all the wiki on mr 1 and always have grustrag mark on now Im spending 10 year in cell before taking Disklok off.

I dont like stars, too salty and bully me. Now go, install Mario Bros 95 collect all the coins - Warframes equivalent to collecting all the guns.
If this doesnt speak your mind idk what will.

[Rakosta_Kai]

22 hours ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Warframe is held back by suspending it's best playerbase for 10 years without any reason.

I sincerely doubt that...
The folks that caught bans of those lengths tended to definitely earn them and we tend to know what they earned them for because they either come back to the forums (like you may well be doing now), go to youtube, or complain on reddit for having got the ban.

Their explanation always starts off the same, "All I/We did/said was..." The description has always been fairly heinous and involves being either blatantly racist, sexist, homophobic, or admits to outright organized cheating on the parts of one or more players only to have them end it with phases like, "no one got hurt." or "I didn't know it was against TOS.".

If you have another, different, reason for players to have been banned for that length then you should go discuss it with Helpdesk to get clarity for the ban as opposed to romanticizing it on the Forums.

I will say this though, I see none of the above as indicative of Warframe's best playerbase and have been around long enough to know.

[RyllusPurple]

warframe has interesting enemies that it never actually uses. Like granum specters are still more dangerous than jade eximus and where do they appear? nowhere but granum void.

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I'm just gonna make a note from my most recent play session.

I miss shotguns. Like, using Shotguns properly in this game. And I don't mean Sobek Saryn Acid Shells 'nuke the whole map'. I don't mean Strun Incarnon's rocket launcher where you use the shotgun for like 3 hits whilst you build it up. I don't mean Phantasma. I barely mean the Cedo with how much the Ricochet shot is a part of its design. I don't mean Plasmor-type shotguns either, though they are cool.

 

I mean 'point at center mass, pull the trigger, there is no more center mass'. I mean the rhythmic booms. I mean the god damn Tigris Prime, and the Exergis and the Corinth.

But lets be honest, the way the game is now, killing one enemy every couple seconds just isn't really going to be worth it again.

Well you can use Strun or even boar incarnon and not use incarnon form. Stats are there, just throw in some punch through and you are good to go. I use Felarx like this and its more than fine. Granted i use it on Lavos and force proc gas for AoE but it still does a good job.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 2 heures, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

=+= = # :)
mb for not reading all the wiki on mr 1 and always have grustrag mark on now Im spending 10 year in cell before taking Disklok off.

I dont like stars, too salty and bully me. Now go, install Mario Bros 95 collect all the coins - Warframes equivalent to collecting all the guns.
If this doesnt speak your mind idk what will.

So you got perma ban ? That's what you are trying to tell us ? I wonder why... such pleasant character you are.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I miss shotguns. Like, using Shotguns properly in this game. And I don't mean Sobek Saryn Acid Shells 'nuke the whole map'. I don't mean Strun Incarnon's rocket launcher where you use the shotgun for like 3 hits whilst you build it up. I don't mean Phantasma. I barely mean the Cedo with how much the Ricochet shot is a part of its design. I don't mean Plasmor-type shotguns either, though they are cool.

I mean 'point at center mass, pull the trigger, there is no more center mass'. I mean the rhythmic booms. I mean the god damn Tigris Prime, and the Exergis and the Corinth.

But lets be honest, the way the game is now, killing one enemy every couple seconds just isn't really going to be worth it again.

Exergis is still really good for that.  In fact Shotgun Cannonade and Elementalist buffed it.  Yeah, you're going to have problems horde killing with it (Though with PT and blast, gas, or electric it's not hopeless, and with grouping it's far from hopeless.) but that's been true for as long as the weapon has existed.   And not all content success is dependent on 100+ kpm.

Felarx and Strun Prime are both awesome as well.   Incarnon mode can be ignored on both if you like.   Similar for Sobek: which got a massive boost from Clip Delegation.  Just drop Acid Shells when you don't enjoy the AoE.

 

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

1 hour ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

I sincerely doubt that...
I will say this though, I see none of the above as indicative of Warframe's best playerbase and have been around long enough to know.

Your doubt has anything to do here. 
"should go discuss it with Helpdes"
19 days ago Still waiting for response + DE contact form is completely non-functional.
 see none of the above as indicative of Warframe's best playerbase and have been around long enough to know.
Cool but I'm here since beta - your argument is invalid. You have played long enough to buy platinum, you did not buy enough - get ban.
DE superficially retorting content as I see it.

46 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So you got perma ban ? That's what you are trying to tell us ? I wonder why... such pleasant character you are.

No Im just staying on topic. Unlike some other posters here I won't point fingers at.
10 years is not perma, just cannot into frame. OP is perfectly fine, except for the fact I'm being mixed into the bag with the worst of the worst as you may see above.
I understand some of the players think they are immune to suspensions just because they paid or are high enough mr to troll.
On the other hand, too much of a coincidence to suspend me everytime nightwave ends so I cannot spend nightwave creds, then this suspension once I've gotten all the guns. 10 years is simply way too harsh, especially given absolutely no reason or explaination which is sad since I cannot improve on my behaviour other than not appear at all.

Not a place to discuss moderators action here.
Place to express disaprobation with dealing with "What do I do past all this grind" - Nothing. Log in using app, get daily tribute, build forma. Never actually get to play Warframe since it is ONLY grind then go cry on forum maybe we make content out of your efforts if it's good enough, no you not getting unban because you are not flagged as potential platinum acquirer and newcomers might get mad at you for being way better at the game than them.
Seen this been there.

Edited August 28 by PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

No Im just staying on topic. Unlike some other posters here I won't point fingers at.

I understand some of the players think they are immune to suspensions just because they paid or are high enough mr to troll.
On the other hand, too much of a coincidence to suspend me everytime nightwave ends so I cannot spend nightwave creds, then this suspension once I've gotten all the guns. 10 years is simply way too harsh, especially given absolutely no reason or explaination which is sad since I cannot improve on my behaviour other than not appear at all.

Not a place to discuss moderators action here.

Because this is completely out of topic, and that this topic went into flames anyways ; let's talk about it.
While it's truly sad that you got banned for some reasons, there is always room to improve yourself, without the need to have precise explanation from the moderator themselves.
Like being polite, understanding, and apologetic. You did something wrong to the eye of the ban-hammer yielders ; that should be enough for you to consider you might have stepped out of line. No one is immune to punishment ; it can't be about MR or money.
Like I did in this very topic : I was angry and salty, and also made personnal attacks. I shouldn't have, it's not my place, and it's not the topic ; Guess what : I learnt to mute and ignore the trolls, and that made me much healthier and also a better person. First step is to accept and realize you did something wrong.

Did you do something wrong ?

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

14 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

without the need to have precise explanation from the moderator themselves.
No one is immune to punishment ; it can't be about MR or money.
Like I did in this very topic : I was angry and salty, and also made personnal attacks. I shouldn't have, it's not my place, and it's not the topic ; Guess what : I learnt to mute and ignore the trolls, and that made me much healthier and also a better person. First step is to accept and realize you did something wrong.

Did you do something wrong ?

-you did something wrong.
 Not ignoring Warframe to begin with.
Not having an ocassion to play victim of mod abuse.

 Let's think I got banned for talking in English. Next game, banned for talking in French.
Now I know 2 languages and have nothing to play. Install 3rd game. Knows Spanish. Nothing to play and so on.

 If you do not chat you cannot be chat suspended.
Gets chat suspended for not chatting.

 Maybe you are right. I should learn how to deal with letting things go for whatever the reason was, even false reasons no matter how much commitment it costed me I can always lose more by fightning for what was taken from me and wont be returned just so I will type more forum posts and continue to be abused.

Been here did that. Just annoyed and disappointed.

Edited August 28 by PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

-you did something wrong.
 Not ignoring Warframe to begin with.
Not having an ocassion to play victim of mod abuse.

 Let's think I got banned for talking in English. Next game, banned for talking in French.
Now I know 2 languages and have nothing to play. Install 3rd game. Knows Spanish. Nothing to play and so on.

 If you do not chat you cannot be chat suspended.
Gets chat suspended for not chatting.

 Maybe you are right. I should learn how to deal with letting things go for whatever the reason was, even false reasons no matter how much commitment it costed me I can always lose more by fightning for what was taken from me and wont be returned just so I will type more forum posts and continue to be abused.

Ok then.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Ok then.

not okay.

Lets talk about how Warframe is held back by how easy it is.
Causing ease; giving comfort, or freedom from care or labour. Free from constraint, harshness, or formality; unconstrained; smooth.
Does Warframe deliever on any of those?
No.
Therefore I do not consider Warframe easy or recommend it to they would not apreaciate it enough.
Exactly what happened and why WF had to go f2p model - funds always in the way.

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

Therefore I do not consider Warframe easy

I wish you can have this conversation with @4thBro. Good luck to you both.

[4thBro]

Warframe is easy. Maybe we could have a conversation about it. And, indeed, I am sure that we could discuss it like normal people.

 

20 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Lets talk about how Warframe is held back by how easy it is.
Causing ease; giving comfort, or freedom from care or labour. Free from constraint, harshness, or formality; unconstrained; smooth.
Does Warframe deliever on any of those?
No.

For me, step #1 would be:
Can you clarify on this? Because I get the vibe that you're focusing on a part of that definition, and I'd like to know if that's correct, and if so, what part of the definition you do not feel WF has, and why.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

50 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Warframe is easy. Maybe we could have a conversation about it. And, indeed, I am sure that we could discuss it like normal people.
Can you clarify if that's correct and if so, what part

Warframe is not giving me and Warframe is not physically giving me:
 -the easing or alleviation of a person's feelings of grief or distress.
Feelings are being invalidated, reference causes trouble to accounts access.

Freedom from constraint:
aka not playing Warframe does not hurt you.
-mental ability to choose without possibility to choose desireables from any given highly limited options
Painful to grind for possibility to try enjoyement > disapointment > compulsion to grind > realisation.

Harshness, formality, rules.
Whatever said, done, experienced:
compelled under the threat of penalty.

Am I focusing on a part of definition? No. I am bringing definition for you to ease whatever I'm trying to say to you. Focal point.

Warframe does not give me freedom from care or labour. Warframe steals my attention in order to provide freedom from care or labour. Involuntary, through deceit and never for my own profit.
Access to Warframe accounts = Ability to provide monetary support for whoever the recipient might be.

Edited August 28 by PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE

[4thBro]

I feel like this is two different definitions of "easy."

 

1) Not complicated, i.e. "2 + 2 is an easy math formula."

2) Easing out of a previous state, like a smoothened transition, i.e. "This massage is easing me out of that back pain."

 

The first definition is certainly easy. But no, it does not attempt to alleviate any negative state of body or mind. It's still technically work.

 

Warframe is not a back massage, no.

But it is 2 + 2.

Edited August 28 by 4thBro

[S.Dust]

Sir ive been playing for years now and I was like you once and the only thing I have to say is give up, you'll be happier that way this game will never be hard and you aren't the first nor will you be the last to ask for difficulty.

End of the day its either not possible because of too many variables in the game or its not fun because the way to do it is to turn off all those variables. Theres also the fact that a very vocal part of the community will complain every step of the way. Just enjoy the vibes and take long breaks from the game like all the other vets.

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, kuciol said:

Well you can use Strun or even boar incarnon and not use incarnon form. Stats are there, just throw in some punch through and you are good to go. I use Felarx like this and its more than fine. Granted i use it on Lavos and force proc gas for AoE but it still does a good job.

I love the Strun. It's one of my favourite guns. It's still only killing 2 and a half enemies a second or so (taking into account enemies that take multiple hits to kill, and then the several second long reload. Punch through really isn't the golden ticket either. The only time enemies are very frequently grouped up enough that punch through realistically matters regularly are either in cramped corridors (which you want to avoid because you can't dodge) or in extremely high enemy density environments, in which case it's even more apparent that you should have just brought a rocket launcher and you are in great danger because of the sheer amount of damage coming at you from all angles.

I mean, you admit outright you're using forced Gas Procs to give the weapon AoE. I mean no disrespect at all, but kind of by definition, I don't want AoE out of a shotgun. I have plenty of AoE weapons I like - I mentioned the Scourge which is a light AoE weapon, I ran with the Ogris before that and the Grimoire is at this point a constant companion. But none of them scratch the itch of a shotgun. Which is sad because Warframe with a Shotgun is fun (when you aren't being shot in the back by 200 other enemies). Running around at top speed sliding up to a bad guy and hitting them with a meaty shot is fun.

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Exergis is still really good for that.  In fact Shotgun Cannonade and Elementalist buffed it.  Yeah, you're going to have problems horde killing with it (Though with PT and blast, gas, or electric it's not hopeless, and with grouping it's far from hopeless.) but that's been true for as long as the weapon has existed.   And not all content success is dependent on 100+ kpm.

Exactly my point. 'You're going to have problems horde killing with it'. See above re: punch through.

Exergis is another favourite of mine. I was a shotgun nut for a while in WF, so I've used most of the primary shotguns. Warframe is exclusively about killing large numbers of enemies. And for as much as it's easy to claim not all content success is dependent on kills per minute, those that aren't are either big boss kills (which with the exception of the Archon Hek oneshots, Shotguns also weirdly tend to underperform in my experience) or are designed so ideally you want to fight as little as possible.

And most of the newer content is depenendent on KPM.  Alchemy, two out of the three Zariman game modes, the Steel Path Survival missions - even Ascension is better if you have high kills per minute (especially at the start and end).

 

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Felarx and Strun Prime are both awesome as well.   Incarnon mode can be ignored on both if you like.   Similar for Sobek: which got a massive boost from Clip Delegation.  Just drop Acid Shells when you don't enjoy the AoE.

I'll admit I still need to test out Clip Delegation properly, but having played with the Strun Prime and Felarx I am extremely aware of how vulnerable I am whenever I'm building up the Incarnons - i.e. when I'm using them as a shotgun.

 

I think ultimately it's pretty telling that there are four incarnon shotguns, and only one of them is still a shotgun when you're in Incarnon mode. And that's the Bronco. And the only one that becomes a shotgun of any description is the Soma, which can have such a tight spread it's functionally not a shotgun at all.