Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[4thBro]

15 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I'll concede the point about killing things, but saying that games are all about overcoming challenges reeks of Soulsborne Syndrome. I don't know about you but my first priority is having fun

I don't know what to do with this post.

There are obviously different types of games. You don't kill anything in Connect Four. We're going to discard genre from the entire discussion, as it serves no purpose.

 

Fun is a broad thing, and people have fun with different things. But I think it's safe to say that nobody has fun punching target dummies.

 

Nobody wants to play Connect Four if you only need to connect two and you move first every time.

Nobody wants to play Monopoly if you own everything and you're just collecting bankruptcies off every player.

Nobody wants to play Starcraft if your opponent can only make SCV's.

Nobody--

I'm gonna assume you get the concept.

 

Well, many people stop playing WF because all there is to do is collect bankruptcies off the enemies. And the truth is that... our loadouts will be strong enough to handle, most likely, the rest of this game's content patches for the rest of its lifetime (barring things like requiring a mod to hurt some boss, or whatever).

 

So everyone can sit here and tell people all their ideas are bad, and that the game is thriving just fine with what it's doing, all they want. But players like me will keep quitting. Players like you will keep complaining that EDA is too hard. And at the end of the day, I don't care to talk about this anymore, because the iron gates are too tall for me to care to climb. It'll all just play out however it plays out, and you will all say whatever you need to say to protect your weird egos that don't want more things in the game that ruin your bizarre "power fantasy" fetish.

[Zimzala]

10 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

So everyone can sit here and tell people all their ideas are bad, and that the game is thriving just fine with what it's doing, all they want. But players like me will keep quitting. Players like you will keep complaining that EDA is too hard. And at the end of the day, I don't care to talk about this anymore, because the iron gates are too tall for me to care to climb. It'll all just play out however it plays out, and you will all say whatever you need to say to protect your weird egos that don't want more things in the game that ruin your bizarre "power fantasy" fetish.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh man, that's some comedy gold right there.

Martyr Harder!

HA!

[4thBro]

You have legitimate issues, dude, lol.

[DocNemo]

"I have optimized the fun out of the game and so the game isn't fun anymore"

Bro, YOU'RE the answer to that issue. You want things to be more difficult, stop running with gauss/wukong/revenant. Play some other frames, play some unusual weapons.

"But then the other player..."

Get friends, play with your friends, agree not to play the meta. 

I can't stand people complaining about content for a game when they have full control over that content.

[GEN-Son_17]

6 hours ago, 4thBro said:

It's still crazy that you think you're the good guys here, lol.

No, it's actually crazy that you're still trying to make your case despite very, VERY low approval. You should've adjusted by now but you aren't. They are all telling you that both your idea and your approach are wrong. And, instead of listening and fixing the idea and approach, you're doubling down on a losing hand. 

 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Spoiler

 

Edited August 7 by CosoMalvadoNG

[4thBro]

36 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

No, it's actually crazy that you're still trying to make your case despite very, VERY low approval. You should've adjusted by now but you aren't. They are all telling you that both your idea and your approach are wrong. And, instead of listening and fixing the idea and approach, you're doubling down on a losing hand

Lol.

Both sides of the discussion are capping at 3-4 Likes. People don't go to the forums in general, let alone deep into this specific thread. (To spell it out for you, that's 6 to 8 human beings participating/watching.)

And yet you still try to cling to the Likes as if they represent the whole world's thoughts on Warframe.

Even still ignoring that both sides have equal support in this thread.

 

THIS is how I know you're being disingenuous.

You just keep proving it over and over.

And that's what's wild about this whole thing.

Edited August 7 by 4thBro

[GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

Lol.

Both sides of the discussion are capping at 3-4 Likes. People don't go to the forums in general, let alone deep into this specific thread. (To spell it out for you, that's 6 to 8 human beings participating/watching.)

And yet you still try to cling to the Likes as if they represent the whole world's thoughts on Warframe.

Even still ignoring that both sides have equal support in this thread.

 

THIS is how I know you're being disingenuous.

You just keep proving it over and over.

And that's what's wild about this whole thing.

Likes? Who said anything about likes? The discussion itself is the very low approval. It's the same general argument that's been regurgitating for years. Each time has resulting in failure, while the game has grown and thrived. More importantly, if you're receiving pushback responses against your idea, which actually are far more than those agreeing, then why not tweak your idea based on that pushback?

[Trollocaustic]

On 2024-08-02 at 3:50 PM, Prof-Dante said:

that "remove all mods" argument is getting tiresome. like seriously, how many times do people have to say this before they realize that it adds nothing to the argument?

 

On 2024-08-02 at 3:53 PM, Prof-Dante said:

A better alternative to the silly suggestions above, is to do what I do and use old time, non meta, or gimmicky weapons and try to maximize them to the absolute.

make thematic builds that usually wouldn't work but somehow do.

 

for example, I finally crafted Aklex Prime, let me tell you, it's really weak...but I am enjoying how much I am trying to make it work.

Amen brother. I make it a habit to try out rivens on trash weapons before transmuting them, especially wepaons with unique traits

[Voltage]

On 2024-08-06 at 3:23 PM, MrDugan said:

I can't figure out what the build could possibly be that would be so broken.

Cloudwalker counts as "resetting" on the ground, allowing for spamming of slam attacks. Magistar Incarnon, Arca Titron and a few other weapons are popular choice. I tried it myself and it's just too much effort ngl. I rather just play Saryn with Ocucor.

[MrDugan]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Cloudwalker counts as "resetting" on the ground, allowing for spamming of slam attacks. Magistar Incarnon, Arca Titron and a few other weapons are popular choice. I tried it myself and it's just too much effort ngl. I rather just play Saryn with Ocucor.

I thought it might be something like this, but I thought...  Surely no one is that dumb.  Because you can literally hold melee and spam jump and it will auto-slam from practically ground level without having to spend energy on cloud walker.  Is it fun?  No.  But it does big numbers, so I'm sure someone out there is doing it.

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Likes? Who said anything about likes? The discussion itself is the very low approval. It's the same general argument that's been regurgitating for years. Each time has resulting in failure, while the game has grown and thrived. More importantly, if you're receiving pushback responses against your idea, which actually are far more than those agreeing, then why not tweak your idea based on that pushback?

You can say that the discussion pops up frequently, for years, and that doesn't trigger a brainwave that tells you, maybe, it could be something to actually consider?

Whether or not the game thrives doesn't matter. That's a fallacy. Red herring, I think. Maybe others as well. But, in short... the logical fallacy behind that statement is that it implies the subject (Warframe, in this case) is perfect as it is, as seen by the fact that it's doing well.

The statement implies that improvements cannot be made. It implies that the game cannot be MORE successful by including more things into it, or tweaking it in some way. And before you say "I never said that," the REASON that it implies that is because it's being presented as the COUNTERARGUMENT to other people suggesting that DE should add certain things into WF.

 

"Warframe should let you change loadouts at the Navigation menu."

"No it shouldn't, it's been thriving as is, don't rock the boat."

 

Funnily enough, you can clearly see the issue with this as the counterargument in this example. Possibly even more so in this case, because they now HAVE added this feature (after how many years though, which is also part of my point).

But, when it comes to the eternal discussion about endgame... You use the same argument. But, for some reason, you think it makes more sense here. You think it's different in the endgame talk. You think it holds more merit here, but has less merit when talking about the Navigation loadouts.

Why is that?

 

As for this specifically:

1 hour ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

More importantly, if you're receiving pushback responses against your idea, which actually are far more than those agreeing, then why not tweak your idea based on that pushback?

Because I haven't seen any actual argument.

I'm just being slammed with fallacies. And I know you're tired of hearing that word, but trust me, on THIS end, it's MUCH easier to keep saying that, than it is to keep figuring out which specific fallacy to name... and to write an essay explaining how each post is a fallacy... etc etc etc. Trust me, that's much more exhausting.

Trust me, I'm much more tired of typing it than you are of reading it.

Trust me.

 

But really. Look at these posts. I feel like I broke into an insane asylum. I say endgame, and six people go "WEEBLE WOBBLE WOO WOO" and bash their foreheads into steel cabinets.

All I've been getting are responses like...

"Nobody will play that, why do I have to tell thousands of people this all the time?"

"Your idea isn't real until you've written a 2gb document and mailed it to DE."

"HAHAHA U R COMEDY GOLD HAHAHAHAHAHA"

 

Like... it's literally Arkham over here.

 

So, please. Tell me.

Which person here has made a compelling, well-thought-out post about why my idea isn't good enough and needs to be reworked?

Because I'm looking at all these cabinet-bashers right now, and I just... you know? I don't feel like anyone's said anything yet.

 

Well - other than whoever brought up invisibility. So, yes! I HAVE tweaked the idea! I'm not opposed to tweaking the idea, or expanding upon it. I'm not "doubling down" on anything at all.

There just hasn't been any real posters. Lol. There's been no genuine discussion.

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Cloudwalker counts as "resetting" on the ground, allowing for spamming of slam attacks.

I mean, you gotta wait on Initial Combo anyway, so... lol.

What?

Edited August 7 by 4thBro

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

I thought it might be something like this, but I thought...  Surely no one is that dumb.  Because you can literally hold melee and spam jump and it will auto-slam from practically ground level without having to spend energy on cloud walker.  Is it fun?  No.  But it does big numbers, so I'm sure someone out there is doing it.

Well Cloudwalker is a movement skill, so you're zipping through the tileset with your AoE clear. It's just another flavor of the existing status-quo.

[MidcallPrime]

Am 2.8.2024 um 21:34 schrieb Pakaku:

Nukes are boring, but people play them because the grind is even more boring. I don't notice nearly as much nuking in the higher-level missions, though.

If u think nukes are boring here i can only advice u to play a round of first descendant. also just finished a 2 minute fissure to get a forma blueprint. i did the same in first descendant earlier in 4 hours without getting anthing useful at all. 

 

 

[Pakaku]

19 minutes ago, MidcallPrime said:

If u think nukes are boring here i can only advice u to play a round of first descendant. also just finished a 2 minute fissure to get a forma blueprint. i did the same in first descendant earlier in 4 hours without getting anthing useful at all.

I like to play as a precision shooter and put in the effort to do so most of the time, and compared to that, pressing a button just to nuke a room is very boring

[4thBro]

11 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I like to play as a precision shooter and put in the effort to do so most of the time, and compared to that, pressing a button just to nuke a room is very boring

I would love them to have, say, a sniper rifle that, upon headshot, bounces that shot to 7-10 enemies' heads. Now you can room clear while still playing the precision shooter gameplay.

Feels like that would be the next step to playing a sniper in Warframe, overdue by several years.

 

Marked for Death also could have helped with this, if not for its mechanical shortcomings of being capped by the debuffed target's max HP.

[Pakaku]

3 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I would love them to have, say, a sniper rifle that, upon headshot, bounces that shot to 7-10 enemies' heads. Now you can room clear while still playing the precision shooter gameplay.

Feels like that would be the next step to playing a sniper in Warframe, overdue by several years.

Marked for Death also could have helped with this, if not for its mechanical shortcomings of being capped by the debuffed target's max HP.

Some incarnons have the gimmick, like the Lato and Dual Toxocysts. Not snipers, but you don't really need an actual sniper type weapon to make headshots, and they are so insanely powerful that it almost feels too tempting to just unleash it all the time

[rhoenix]

14 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Some incarnons have the gimmick, like the Lato and Dual Toxocysts. Not snipers, but you don't really need an actual sniper type weapon to make headshots, and they are so insanely powerful that it almost feels too tempting to just unleash it all the time

I mean, the Lex Incarnon right now is like that.  Baseline it's still a headshot-based pistol.  After the Incarnon form is active, and assuming you have the Hemorrhage mod equipped, every Incarnon shot will clear a hallway very neatly.

(Every incarnon shot causes forced Impact procs, which the Hemorrhage mod turns into Slash procs.  And yes, it's very, very tempting to keep doing it.)

[Tiltskillet]

45 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I would love them to have, say, a sniper rifle that, upon headshot, bounces that shot to 7-10 enemies' heads.

If you haven't tried it, you might really enjoy Zymos.   Not a sniper obviously, but really rewards headshots with a mechanic like you're talking about. 

 

[Reishadowen]

On 2024-08-02 at 1:04 PM, Kaiga said:

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

There is no threat to the survival of the player, no reason to even remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're obliterated in seconds by nukes.

Why do any of that cool space ninja stuff from the ad when you can just shoot a rocket launcher at everything?

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

 

While I disagree with the game being "easy", I do agree that the strategy of "run in and blow everything up" does seem to appear in a lot of public games I play. The real challenge of this game does seem to be vastly more on mod and weapon choice than execution (RIP stealth gameplay). 

While I treasure the few times where I've felt like I was just scraping by while on the brink of defeat, that's really hard to balance for across your playerbase. Too often it's either "You're killin' it!  or "Wait, why am I on the ground?" 

And honestly, if you found a way to cheese an encounter, that's not "EZ", it's understanding and mastery.

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

If you haven't tried it, you might really enjoy Zymos.   Not a sniper obviously, but really rewards headshots with a mechanic like you're talking about. 

 

I definitely overlooked this thing when I first looked at it.

 

Looks like the explosions arnen't effected by Hornet Strike dmg, which could be an issue, but the actual base dmg is pretty high, so maybe it plays out fine.

Might be a Harrow gun though, with that low base crit chance.

[Sephylon086918]

12 hours ago, 4thBro said:

I definitely overlooked this thing when I first looked at it.

 

Looks like the explosions arnen't effected by Hornet Strike dmg, which could be an issue, but the actual base dmg is pretty high, so maybe it plays out fine.

Might be a Harrow gun though, with that low base crit chance.

Low base crit on it is highly deceptive. I'm able to get red crits on it with a riven, crit delay and galv cross on any frame. Orange w/o said riven.

[4thBro]

Ah, I see. Apparently, its crit stats are bugged, and mods/buffs/etc apply like... a million times, lol.

 

That's so weird.

[Sojufueled]

I keep checking this thread because it started with an interesting topic, but the 7 page fued has really sucked all of the air out of the discussion at this point. The mods ought to just lock this one up and let it die.

[Kaiga]

9 hours ago, Sojufueled said:

I keep checking this thread because it started with an interesting topic, but the 7 page fued has really sucked all of the air out of the discussion at this point. The mods ought to just lock this one up and let it die.

I love posts like this. They're everyone's favorite way of silencing topics they disagree with around here, since the mods are all to happy to close down free speech and negative feedback under the guise of "Well in my opinion this content to no longer erm achsully useful be useful so I'm going to lock it and ensure nobody sees it anymore".

So people love pointing this out to try and bait reports and moderator action, despite you know, people talking about things like new weapon ideas.

Truly the... letter... of the law.

Edited August 9 by Kaiga