Isn't It Time To Raise The Mod Slot Amount On Frames And Weapons?

[(PSN)witch3rDC52]

I agree with the original poster, most of the mods that I have obtained are useless as you need a certain set of mods to make each frame function well with its abilities. 

 

Mods I most use in a frame are flow, streamline, constitution, continuity, fleeting expertise, blind rage, narrow minded, overextended, stretch, rush plus the warframe's two to four abilities.  There really isn't much room for anything.

 

It would be great to have more slots to add some utilities.

[Superdoo]

I don't think diversity is limited by mod capacity. I think it's limited by polarities.  I've always thought there should be a way for us to customize each of our three loadouts differently. This goes for Warframes and weapons.  If they did that we wouldn't be so limited in the choices of mods we use.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Superdoo

[Loveshack]

I don't think adding more slots would be a good thing.  The limitations we have now are important to how the game scales across levels.  

What probably should happen INSTEAD is for utility mods to get buffed or merged to make them more tempting replacements for damage mods.

[faustias]

OP, no good and solid reason why they should add more mod slots.

[-Krux-]

maybe when focus comes out, what it can do maybe is "activate" a 3rd row of mods on your stuff.

have a gold-colored 3rd row of mods that don't do anything until you activate focus mode.

then they function.

 

cuz let's face it, if you add more mod slots...we're op as it is, that's not helping. we'll leave that for when focus comes out, when the time is needed.

Edited April 18, 2014 by -Krux-

[CryoClaw]

I fully agree with OP...

Let's say we get atleast 2 more mod slots for our warframes and those slots would only allow us to use the mods which indeed are underused or plain silly

those mods would be renamed into maybe something like passive mods and they would get their own look too (like a green edge)

For guns tho... Idk maybe, maybe not since with the right mods most are super strong when used right

[Luffy490]

I don't know if these are still around, but we probably still have "band-aid mods" in our arsenal. 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/109376-band-aid-mods-are-not-a-good-solution/

 

As stated in that thread link I've posted:

 

Brimir: "When Scott (I think it was?) stated that he was baffled that nobody used the Stamina mods they added to "band-aid" the Stamina nerf.."

 

Now these "band-aid" mods were useless pre-melee 2.0, because survivability/damage was more important than relying on these said stamina mods. Those same mods will probably not get used in melee 2.0 over better survivability/durability mods, unless we have more mod slots. Outside of the low level areas, the current slots and mods is very limited in terms of viability. 

Edited April 18, 2014 by Luffy490

[Niryco]

I don't think adding more slots would be a good thing.  The limitations we have now are important to how the game scales across levels.  

What probably should happen INSTEAD is for utility mods to get buffed or merged to make them more tempting replacements for damage mods.

You are still trading the most important component which is damage for some other component which "may" replace it which is illogical. If i can kill everything in one melee hit or shot, what is the point of even going fast and eating into more of your ammo or time?

 

Even if DPS can be accounted for, you are wasting alot of ammo just to greater the damage you can deal with ironically lesser bullets. Utility mods can hardly replace any damage mod no matter how tempting, if they did replace it would be for survival or utility purposes and not to kill mobs, thus they are not interchangeable when majority of the objectives within the game require you to kill.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Yeh...the essentials destroy any chance at build diversity.

I think DE said that essentials are being kept in for the sole reason of people having spend plat on them and it could anger them or something.

Which kind of is a big roadblock... and takes away a lot of options.

 

And this is bad.  Sometimes you need to do what's best for the game and sometimes (a lot of times, actually) that's not going to be popular (especially when money is involved), but you have to make a choice of what matters more, your game being the best it can be, or keeping people who spend money on a product which has been stated to be unstable (nature of online games in general and Betas especially) 'happy'.

 

The "essential" mods really need to go the way of the Do-do if they want all these other currently crappy-by-comparison mods to be of any use whatsoever (above padding drop tables with crap to make the grind more obnoxious).

[low1991]

-cut-

maybe you should be asking this instead "Isn't it time to raise the max rank obtainable and the mod slot limit?!"

why bother asking for mod slots when you will run out of mod points...?

[MeduSalem]

I would not say that DE doesn't think it is a problem, they know it is a problem, the fact they know is how they are struggling with distributing mods in current enemy pools and receiving complaints. The fact they are not implementing a new damage mod system is that it will take alot of time where alot of coding, like alot upon lots of coding will be changed and alot of resources, hundreds of hours upon hours of assets will be thrown away, from UI layout, models, scripts of how the mod system actually works to make room for a new one like this. On top of that there is going to be hundreds of hours of more coding and work which means it is going to cost them alot of money.

 

The reason DE wishes to not change from their current modding system is that when they did change from the skill tree system, it had cost them alot of resources to do so and as such they know it is not very efficient unless it is 100% necessary. Although your suggestion does try to work on their current system without having to remove as much assets as possible, it is still going to be very costly, and if it is not going to be worth the companies growth and stability, it is never going to be implemented.

 

Which is probably the reason why most people leave Warframe eventually. (apart from the RNG/Grind-problems)

 

• Too complicated system for most casual/average players without relying on Wikia or mates.
• Too difficult for new players because of lacking the mods and weapons to inflict enough damage or be reliable enough
• Too easy for highend players who roflcopter through every room killing everything with one hit on their way but not wanting to sacrifice any of the damage
• Above mentioned don't get fixed or rebalanced.

 

I understand that everything costs money and time to implement from an economic sense... But every time they realize a problem and address it in a livestream they are introducing something new and down the road while they are implementing it they drift apart from what they originally tried to fix. They release a new gameplay addition with it's own problems and bugs on top of the not fixed problems.

 

A major example includes Damage 2.0... meant to address the rainbow builds. Yet it turned out that you need elementals more than ever and there's like no viable build without except for Crit.based weapons... Damage 2.0... more like Rainbow 2.0. Also they killed off Status effects with the ridiculous low default proc-chance on weapons... and they are still trying to fix that with the release of the Cicero/Tethra's Doom mods nearly half a year later which just shows off that the Status Chance on Weapons are still too low. Also they have elementals bundled with them because otherwise nobody would go for that sh*t, because there's no room for such mods on your weapons.

 

It's too soon to judge about Melee 2.0 but reading through various complaints the Melee Channeling is inferior to Charge Attacks and it still doesn't solve the fact that you are better off killing stuff from 30m away because it's a hell lot of faster, less dangerous and doesn't require to trigger combos. Not to speak of the Grind involved to get the stances to make a difference.

 

So I don't want to say they wasted their money on those projects, they are neat additions, but they surely didn't end up at the goal they were heading for when they started to work on that stuff. Now we have those additions that come with their own new problems and still suffer from the old problems that did not get fixed.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Generalsherman]

I really gotta agree, having more "normal" mods slots would be too much but some support mod slots would be great. If I forma my excal three times I could at least be able to fit in maglev and maybe a armor mod.

[Niryco]

Which is probably the reason why most people leave Warframe eventually. (apart from the RNG/Grind-problems)

 

• Too complicated system for most casual/average players without relying on Wikia or mates.
• Too difficult for new players because of lacking the mods and weapons to inflict enough damage or be reliable enough
• Too easy for highend players who roflcopter through every room killing everything with one hit on their way but not wanting to sacrifice any of the damage
• Above mentioned don't get fixed or rebalanced.

 

I understand that everything costs money and time to implement from an economic sense... But every time they realize a problem and address it in a livestream they are introducing something new and down the road while they are implementing it they drift apart from what they originally tried to fix. They release a new gameplay addition with it's own problems and bugs on top of the not fixed problems.

 

A major example includes Damage 2.0... meant to address the rainbow builds. Yet it turned out that you need elementals more than ever and there's like no viable build without except for Crit.based weapons... Damage 2.0... more like Rainbow 2.0. Also they killed off Status effects with the ridiculous low default proc-chance on weapons... and they are still trying to fix that with the release of the Cicero/Tethra's Doom mods nearly half a year later which just shows off that the Status Chance on Weapons are still too low. Also they have elementals bundled with them because otherwise nobody would go for that sh*t.

 

It's too soon to judge about Melee 2.0 but reading through various complaints the Melee Channeling is inferior to Charge Attacks and it still doesn't solve the fact that you are better off killing stuff from 30m away because it's a hell lot of faster, less dangerous and doesn't require to trigger combos. Not to speak of the Grind involved to get the stances to make a difference.

 

So I don't want to say they wasted their money on those projects, they are neat additions, but they surely didn't end up at the goal they were heading for when they started to work on that stuff. Now we have those additions that come with their own new problems and still suffer from the old problems that did not get fixed.

It is not an economic sense, it is a business sense. They are not trying to keep the whole playerbase, but those who are willing to put cash in. They need it for the game to run and overall they probably are considering balancing the game to the playing situations of these people. The fact is what you said, if you introduce something new problems would arise, but they don't "seem" to fix what is broken but drift from the fix.

 

The question are they really drifting or did the issue self fix itself with sufficient evidence? How does De base their fixes on? Is it just the voices of 100,000 of the 7million playerbase or in-game statistic of the 7 million playerbase? Our voices do get heard, they can hear, but they can't just go around balancing things based on what a 100 to 1000 players say for 7million others. They need hard numbers, and if those numbers fall within what they predicted, you would be going against their original prediction of how the system is supposed to be carried out.

 

You say damage 2.0 does not address rainbow builds, let me first ask you what is rainbow builds. Do you know it is beneficial to have lesser elements as the damage doesn't just stack, the game decides which one of the few elemental damage is procing and if you have  more elements on your gun (which is at most is 2 given how 4 would fuse to 2) you are subjecting yourself to a some lose of damage. You can't have all 4 to be effective, the lesser you have the more concentrated your damage is for a specific element. If you have more elements (say 2 mixed elements) your damage is going to be lower through RNG than if you have just 1 mixed element. Furthermore proc chance does not relate to damage, it just relates to status effects, and overall these effects don't mean that much when you are having the added damage against a specific enemy type which was the main aim of damage builds in the first place. What is the point of elemental/rainbow builds in the first place before damage 2.0? It was to increase damage, not to have 100% elemental chance. Did they address that issue in that direction, yes they did. Status proc is a luxury, this immediately fixed rainbow builds and diversified weapon creation because more people sought to build crit builds and specific damage builds rather than pure rainbow builds.

 

Channelling is not as good as charging, and melee attacks can kill things 30 meters away? I don't remember melee weapons having that range, and i do not agree, channelling is overall and upgrade to charging ,which it was not supposed to be, and has open the weapons to a large field of modding opportunities and ridiculous new gameplay experiences, it is just that because it is still new most people haven't started abusing it yet. The statistics of which is certainly withheld by DE, but they sure know what is going on. For me, i love brutal tide + fury + berserker + quickening, kokage become so fast that just spamming the E button for 10 4 seconds, and i can get out about 30 to 40 punches. Same goes with my dragon nikana. It is absurd and so much fun, even better than when melee was 1.0 given how majority of the melee lack an AOE animation set which they now all have.

 

I suggest you clarify what was the original goals for each 2.0 system before you said they didn't achieve their goals. Channelling was not meant to be competitive to charging, it is a replacement, but no where did they say that it will be a complete upgrade. Damage 2.0 was meant to address rainbow builds and which is something you must define properly. In my opinion they have addressed their goals and done abit more than they have intended.

 

However getting back to the main topic, DE will not implement your system simply because you already go against your first point, your new system is going to be more complicated than the current mod system. Furthermore your system would require more mods for players to be even more useful, you just raised the bar for what is considered useful in warframe if you implemented your system. Same as the second sentence for your third point, given how many more mods high end players have, you just made them from roflcoptering to map jumping. Your new system already contradicts 3 of your stated problems, i don't think it is therefore wise to implement it unless you can fully evaluate its effects which most probably isn't beneficial to new players but only older ones. Such is all the current suggestions that are also being made on the forums.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Jacate

[MeduSalem]

-snip-

 

Well if that's truly all that's left of Warframe and the spirit that's driving the Development team - slaughtering the money pig to be exact - then I regret the day I've upgraded to founders and should have thrown my money elsewhere, because from now on there's only one way: downhill. Like all the other projects where the Development Teams favored quantity over quality.

 

Yeah there might be 7 mio accounts but I bet there's only like 20% - if at all - actively playing, seeing the list of players being offline for more than 100 days getting longer and longer as days pass by it's hard to convince me of anything different and I'm not alone with that feeling.

 

Damage 2.0 was stated to end the madness of putting all elementals on your weapon at the same time. Which it did not. So unless if you are going for Wave 100 in Defense (which I doubt many are doing) where every bit of DPS or crowdcontrol-effects counts the Procs are completely a waste of time. Just slap all elements on the damn weapon and overnuke every enemy to be found on the Star-Chart up to T3 Void. You'll never find yourself in a spot where rough damage is not enough to kill everything with one hit. Who cares which of the elemental combinations procs if everything dies instantly anyways. I'm not critizing that it's unpredictable to which combination procs rather the fact that the procs themselfes are too unreliable to rely on them solely. So you are forced to use the Cierco/Tethra's Doom mods to push that... But to be honest there's no difference to be felt if you play:

 

• All four Elementals pure with their 90% variant not giving a damn about Proc-Chance or Procs altogether
• Two elementals pure + Cierco+Tethra's Doom for Proc chance

 

Doesn't matter what you are using of the both above... Still onehitting everything on the starchart AND in the Void. If that's the goal DE had in mind when they said they would address Elemental builds and the resulting rainbow... Well then... Problem solved. But don't ever talk again about how there's build choice on the user side, because there's like none. DE already showed you what they want you to have on your weapons: 3-4 Elementals.

 

Killing stuff from 30m away with your... Guns. Thought that to be clear. The main fact they revamped Melee was because it felt inferior to Gunplay or at least that's what majority of the community complained about back last autumn... But if everyone still plays with guns the system didn't change anything. You feel like a dumb*ss trying to chase enemies around with your Melee Weapon which get killed by other players' guns. Not to speak about the fact that you or your mates can use Abilities too, which get rid of every enemy in the room in a second.

 

It may be more viable now if you go Melee-only and you've got yourself a team that's into the Melee-only stuff but it still doesn't go well in accompany with gunplay. I think DE noticed that during their development and that's why they changed Melee 2.0 to be it's own mini-game because they couldn't think of a way to make Melee go hand-in-hand with Gunplay. So in conclusion: I find people still mowing stuff down with their overpowered guns and Melee became it's own distinct gameplay - don't mix them together. Is that a fix to the original problem? I don't really know about that one to be honest.

 

For the last part... It's not really "my system"... It's one of the dozen others that came into existence while discussing in the hundreds over hundreds of threads with Damage/Mods/Warframe Powers/Weapons etc. It's in my personal opinion the most popular one next to completely switching over to a skill tree again. Most people complaining about the current modsystem want to have dedicated slots for utility stuff so people don't go straight for Damage. Doesn't need to be as complicated as that, I wouldn't like additional Mod slots, but there's like no viable proposal that goes without that.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Fate_6]

YES. Not enough room for melee related mods on my frames. Loki has to use so many mods on abilities that there isnt room for stamina/reflect/etc

[DarkBabylon]

So you think it's cool that 90% of the community will share the same build on everything and that half of the available mod pool is ignored because its sub par?

Its not like Im asking to just add free mod slots...What I want is a chance for those weak mods to actually get a chance.

Increasing mod pool will NOT be a solution to the problem. If 90% of the community wants to play like that, so be it. DE isn't entitled to make the community do what DE wants. In fact it hasn't stopped LoL, it hasn't stopped DoTA and hasn't stopped Smite, Maple story, WoW and every other MMO which introduced multiple stats.

 

Increasing mod slots will only either make the game unplayable, especially since channeling mods decrease efficiency, or be too easy. People will still take Serration, people will still take Vitality/Redirection on their frames etc. Don't feel pity for the mods, especially since it is not DE who is at fault, it's called "Metagame" the main rules that the community had made as a standard using collective unconscious technique. It won't change unless DE changed the very mods to make ignored ones more viable and interesting, or the others not as viable as before and/or boring.

 

Give it time, it took several seasons before Annie was played as a support in LoL, and took a couple of months before it went from Korea to Europe.

Edited April 18, 2014 by DarkBabylon

[Mrevasivepants]

I don't think you even fully evaluated what you are saying. Even if my reload is less than 1 second, even if fast hand mod gives me the ability to not reload (like it ever would) is it even logical to trade away about 90% of your damage for that ability? It is firstly not even logical, and thus it would base on statistics not even affect the decision of mod usage.

 

Have you ever thought that people want to make different builds not to feel stupid powerful but to actually have: FUN?! (which is the whole point of the game)

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Have you ever thought that people want to make different builds not to feel stupid powerful but to actually have: FUN?! (which is the whole point of the game)

 

Very very few people have fun by gimping their performance.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Very very few people have fun by gimping their performance.

 

I have fun... up to about Saturn/Jupiter, then things demand at least serration.

 

I doubt most people run Earth exterminates and captures for the sheer hell of it like I do though.  I love a good exterminate stomp, personally.  DOOM will always be near and dear to my heart.

 

The only ways I can see the mod variety problem being fixed are one of three solutions:

 

1.  OP's solution: distinct utility mod slots.  1-2 per frame/weapon.  Nothing that adds raw damage can be placed into these slots.

 

2.  Unlimited mod slots, but only 8 slots can be polarized.  Allows players to make the most of their 60 mod points.  Yes, this means people will shove on every damage/survival mod they can before looking to spend the rest of those points on the utilities.  However, someone might be able to fit on every single mod ever provided they're unranked if they really want to... maybe.

 

3.  Custom crafted "nightmare" mods, as also suggested in this thread.  Combine two mods, get 66% of their effects combined onto a single mod card, and probably taking 20-33% of the maximum cost of the cheaper mod and tacking it onto the cost of the formerly more expensive mod.  Allowing players to fuse mod after mod after mod would give this system a lot of replayability.  Admittedly, either utility mods (such as ammo drum, magazine warp, or fast hands) would have to become vastly more powerful (which is necessary for them to compete with the current situation anyway) or they'll have to take a far smaller hit during the fusion, like retaining 80-90% of their stats.  

 

Imagine fusing a serration with point strike, then fusing that fusion with vital hit?  Numbers wise...

 

Serration: 14 points, 160% damage

Point Strike : 9 points, 150% chance

 

Serration + Point Strike = 66% of each.  +50% of the cheaper's mod points.

Serration: 14 points, 105% damage.

Point Strike: 5 points, 99% chance.

Total of 19 points.  Receives random polarity (for extra forma farming buying incentive!)

 

Now the user wants to merge Vital Sense with this fusion:

105% damage = 69% damage.

99% chance = 65% chance.

120% crit = 79% crit.

 

The user could have fused another serration with the vital sense first, but then the numbers would look like this:

 

138% damage

65% chance.

52% crit damage.

 

Ultimately, one can see where there would still have to be limitations to prevent slapping serration or what-have-you into every combo, but it would open up a lot of... grinding...  Okay, so the system sounds rewarding for effort, but it's still a mod hunt, and it doesn't really fix the use of utilities.  I mean it might, but does anyone really take wildfire or jolt for their extra magazine capacity or status chance, respectively speaking?

[VergilDT]

YES.  THE TIME IS NOW.  DE.

 

 

Thank you.  d(^-^)b

 

gonna have to go with Picard on this one

 

[Elfaia]

Im not asking for free slots. I want that weak mods get their own polarity and slot to actually make some build variety happen...people claiming that limitations are good so we have to choose...please tell me how there are many builds for things...because there aren't...the entire weapon and frame pool all pretty much share 2 build choices.... that's not nearly enough...considering that there could be HUNDREDS of choices. (Not sure what sane player would currently pick Maglev over Vitality...just to name 1 example)

 

 

Agree with you so much on this. Would love to see more viable builds in the game, both for frames and weapons. Was just looking at a mod the other day, "converts 25% of shield to stamina" at rank 0. What the hell? Please, if anyone actually uses this mod consistently with ANY frame (i.e. compared to mods like Redirection and Vitality or Flow etc.) and not just for a specific build, please do let me know how you're making it synergize with your playstyle.

 

Cause the only use I can think of for a mod like that is a pure melee (Valkyr maybe? Oh wait, she has fuckall shields) build. Even then, your stamina is going to be drained in a few combos.

 

Creating so many mods like the OP's example, Maglev, just for ONE obscure purpose is simply diluting the mod loot table even further and filling your mod inventory with more junk to sort through.

 

Edit: Also, is your name a Magi reference?

Edited April 18, 2014 by Sharenis

[Shehriazad]

maybe you should be asking this instead "Isn't it time to raise the max rank obtainable and the mod slot limit?!"

why bother asking for mod slots when you will run out of mod points...?

Eh?

You can max out your frame with all mod slots full and have like 30 free points or so (or even more depending on setup)

Formas are your friend.

[SirAuron]

EDIT: People only seem to read the title and half of the replies are like "omg why would you want more mod slots to add even more OP mods.

Try to read this thick text here at least to actually understand what this is about. This is about inferior mods getting their own slots or a way of them being used without all the essentials being touched at all.  Examples - Resistance Mods, Movement Based mods (the silly ones' like the falling damage ones or maglev) and so many more(Indruder and Loot Radar being even more examples).

My advice is to delete this thread and start anew being more clear with an eye candy title.

 

And here's brutal honesty. 95% of the people in this thread are not fit to read. they are morons incapable of comprehension. Very illiterate and is why they choose to not read because they registered to post, not to read. get my drift.

 

Same goes for the majority of the forum users. NO ONE CAN READ or KNOWS HOW TO READ! Reading comprehension and IQ is very low here and the internet so use bold more often and try not to put what this is about in the title. gotta bait the neanderthals first, but then they only read first line and grill you for making them look well at least you tried. keep using bold to annoy them though. italics works too.

 

And remember, only 5% of the forum is NOT brain dead.

 

 

 

 

Don't ask, I just know...

Edited April 18, 2014 by SirAuron

[(PSN)onewiseguy]

maybe you should be asking this instead "Isn't it time to raise the max rank obtainable and the mod slot limit?!"

why bother asking for mod slots when you will run out of mod points...?

Well, that would actually give formas a good use. Right now, after you use a reactor or catalyst, there is almost no point to forma anything unless you have a polarized slot that does not match the polarity of a mod your using. Right now, unless you can't get a catalyst or reactor, i think its near about pointless to use formas on frames or weapons.

[Azawarau]

Well, that would actually give formas a good use. Right now, after you use a reactor or catalyst, there is almost no point to forma anything unless you have a polarized slot that does not match the polarity of a mod your using. Right now, unless you can't get a catalyst or reactor, i think its near about pointless to use formas on frames or weapons.

For throwaway weapons forma is useless but for that perfectly built beauty you shine every night....

Edited April 18, 2014 by Azawarau