How To Make The Sniper Rifle Cool Again

[SolemArgentium]

A post from a sleep deprived mind

In their current state, snipers are an obsolete class of weapon appealing only to a select niche (people who really really like snipers). There isn't any point in using them! Want high dmg and accuracy? You grab a bow. Want the same damageand accuracy but with quicker fire rate? Grab a soma. The sniper has no place to call home.

What are the solutions? A quick skim of recent posts and people basically say buff crit/crit dmg/dmg/innate punch through. And in response to these people I say lame. Sure it might make them as powerful as the bow (and likely unbalanced due to fire rate and hitscan) but so? The sniper rifle's just the same as before, the weird HUD thing where you zoom and a lack of any feel of power besides that short pew. The idea of innate punch through makes no sense when just applied to snipers and if it were done questions could be raised why other rifles don't have It too. AlsoYou can make the gun viable with a quick changes to the stats but that doesn't do anything to make it more interesting. And here's my solution.

-Firstly, aiming/that ridiculous HUD thing

There needs to be an advantage to looking down the scope. Don't just say zoom because zoom is probably one of the greatest draw backs of the sniper if anything. By looking down the scope you should be able to see things that actually provide an advantage. Wall hacks, thermal imaging, weak points on the enemy or variations thereof. Get rid of that static overlay and provide us and actual benefit to using those scopes. Different scopes can have different things, maybe the vectors has weak points whilst Lanka has wall hacks? Choose your own idea.

-Bullets

A sniper can have more specialised ammunition, so why not reflect that? Ammo which detonates on impact or which splinters into other bullets! Innate punch through is also a thing I suppose it's just rather dull...

-Firing modes

One problem in war frame is a lot of the guns feel the same. I want snipers to be different. A smoke trail or displaced air tends to give a feel for the weapons power but we want something that makes the gun actually feel different. How to keep the sniper with the same stats yet make it effective an interesting?

Meet multi target aiming

Banshee hefty the Lanka to her shoulder as the chittering swarms of infested (who also suffer from being rather samey) scramble down the hallway. A tide of rending claws and sharpened fangs drawing nearer and nearer. She calmly looks down the barrel of her modified corpus sniper. In any other day she would be brought low, whilst a bullet could certainly bring one of the chargers down its brood mates on either side would take vengeance. They drawer nearer, feet scraping the steel grate of the grineer galleon, closer and closer - but no further. Down the scope of the Lanka the infested units glow from red to green as the targeting algorithms lock on. With a single discharge the rifle spits forth a hail of high powered ammunition in a split second, each aimed at a different target, each finding their mark. The hallway is still.

Variations of this idea could be used, but the key things to take away is the ability to deal with more than one target at a time. They'd be aimed at the targets body and wouldn't actively seek weak points for balancing and to still preserve a level of skill to exist when using a sniper.

I understand it'd be a rather complex bit of work to get all the programming done (well I thinks so anyway), but I'm sure you could adapt this idea to other weapons you dream up off (ie guided missiles of missile pod like things would be cool!), meaning that the investment in programming it could be used elsewhere. Also ITD MAKE SNIPERS FEEL DIFFERENT! They'd be cool and hip yall. Now Imma sleep.

Pls debate away and improve

[LordMidnightX]

that sounds pretty sweet and a good way to make snipers stand out and be viable in this game

[Paul_Pianoff]

I like the idea of Lanka having an "X-Ray" vision mode, it would synergize greatly with it's punch through.

[Megakruemel]

Multi target aiming *-*

 

Would be really cool if every scope had its own function and you could switch those scopes(Corpus- Multitarget, Grineer- Punchthrough/high puncture, Tenno- Heatsensors/ Weakspot sensors/ higher critdamage;chance). Every sniperrifle would have one standart-scope depending on its origins and you can build different scopes for some credits. These scopes would go into a seperate scope-slot and you can change those scopes in your arsenal.

Different scope- different HUD- different function.

Don't like the HUD?! well okay- here have a HUD remove in the options.

 

Yeah, that would be cool.

[gianutn]

I like your ideas, but I am not sure sniping is viable in the current rooms and game modes.

 

For snipers you need to find a place where you are not seen, but you can see enemies. This could be useful in some cases for defenses and survives, but in other missions you cannot keep your position waiting for enemies to walk through your view range.

 

I like to use snipers, but for the moment I only use them to kill enemies from a greater distance, and because I do not really like charge type triggers.

[LadyScootaloo]

Base 100% crit chance.

New skins based on borderlands 2 snipers. (particularly Hyperion ones)

 

 

p.s. Snipers were always viable. They're offensive support gear. Not designed to solo.

I can make my Lanka outpace Soma and even BoltorP.

This becomes even more obvious when the level scales.

Can rip up cannon fodder on the way to the big guys.

Edited April 28, 2014 by LadyScootaloo

[taiiat]

Would be really cool if every scope had its own function and you could switch those scopes(Corpus- Multitarget, Grineer- Punchthrough/high puncture, Tenno- Heatsensors/ Weakspot sensors/ higher critdamage;chance). Every sniperrifle would have one standart-scope depending on its origins and you can build different scopes for some credits. These scopes would go into a seperate scope-slot and you can change those scopes in your arsenal.

Different scope- different HUD- different function.

Don't like the HUD?! well okay- here have a HUD remove in the options.

sounds good to me.

 

though i'd rather see crafting the Scopes, than just buying them. consumables were removed from the market at one point and replaced with a new system to have things be crafted, rather than just Credit Sinks.

 

 

 

also liking the different Ammunition Archetypes. bonus points if i can switch them in match with a Reload. Consumables that do not expire to toggle mode switching, or implementing that actual alternate fire button we desperately need on quite a few Weapons already (Castanas and Penta, aiming and Detonating the same button? boo), and then using that alternate fire button as an Ammunition rotate, requiring a Reload on each rotation of course.

 

 

plenty of room here with such mechanics to be able to turn out a good number of unique Sniper Rifles, as well as giving existing ones more personality.

 

Edit:

Base 100% crit chance.

i am forever fond of the idea of Sniper Rifles having the Crit Chance they have now, just with large Crit Damage Multipliers. a gamble for good Damage, or very high Damage.

 

Sniper Rifles and Bows should stand out from each other, not be different flavors of each other. we can make Sniper Rifles both very effective and different without cloning Bows.

Edited April 28, 2014 by taiiat

[Arunafeltz]

VATS for Snipetron(Vandal), Scanner imagery for Lanka, innate puncture or Blast proc for Vulkar and weak spot painting for Vectis? I like.

[OriVerda]

Base 100% crit chance.

New skins based on borderlands 2 snipers. (particularly Hyperion ones)

 

 

p.s. Snipers were always viable. They're offensive support gear. Not designed to solo.

I can make my Lanka outpace Soma and even BoltorP.

This becomes even more obvious when the level scales.

Can rip up cannon fodder on the way to the big guys.

Actually I like to slap on a silence mod and go hunting with my Loki from the shadows. It's a blast.

However I agree the snipers are meant as support gear but it doesn't make them less viable for solo. If anything they could be better solo in certain scenarios. 

 

Snipers need to be the endgame weapons. Low rate of fire coupled with high damage is exactly what you need in extremely high levels with the only problem being that mobs may be too large to kill fast enough.

[Issun135]

Snipers 2.0 coming SOON™

[notionphil]

Multi target aiming kind of defeats snipers being challenge/skill based weapons. You just turned snipers into Ignis with long range and awesome dps.

Id rather see something skill based overkill, where if you kill an enemy with a hit to a weak spot, they explode dealing any overkill to everyone in 3M. Stays skill based but also gains an in game role.

Every sniper could have a different overkill mechanic. Ex Lanka = elec field overkill

[Nagisawa]

The best way to make Snipers feel useful is to increase the size of each individual tile in the game, to make long shots worth it.  but that's not going to happen, so...  Bummer for you, I guess.

[fatpig84]

Bumping their critical damage to Soma levels will be perfect.

Let bows keep their guaranteed critical hits but Snipers can REALLY rip you one if they do crit.

[SolemArgentium]

I like your ideas, but I am not sure sniping is viable in the current rooms and game modes.

 

For snipers you need to find a place where you are not seen, but you can see enemies. This could be useful in some cases for defenses and survives, but in other missions you cannot keep your position waiting for enemies to walk through your view range.

 

I like to use snipers, but for the moment I only use them to kill enemies from a greater distance, and because I do not really like charge type triggers.

  

The best way to make Snipers feel useful is to increase the size of each individual tile in the game, to make long shots worth it.  but that's not going to happen, so...  Bummer for you, I guess.

To address current issue with the sniper. Basically if we wanted the sniper to be useful in its current state, we'd want larger maps, but even then you'd run into several problems.

Firstly bigger maps are unlikely to ever be a thing for several reason. Radial xp wouldn't reach the sniper user and he/she would be left out. On most game modes enemies only spawn a certain distance from players. Warframe abilities have a cap at 50m and almost all abilities (99%) would be never be of use. Moreover, because of the nature of the game you're never going to be of use from a huge range. Aiming takes time and whilst that's all fine and skill based, you're not going to be able to kill more than one target every couple of seconds and in a fast game like warframe that's a problem! Hitting weak spots will become harder with range as sensitivity increases and recoil would require readjustment after each shot. Snipers need to be at least useful in each of the maps at the moment (whilst possibly having some advantage at range).

Multi target aiming kind of defeats snipers being challenge/skill based weapons. You just turned snipers into Ignis with long range and awesome dps.

Id rather see something skill based overkill, where if you kill an enemy with a hit to a weak spot, they explode dealing any overkill to everyone in 3M. Stays skill based but also gains an in game role.

Every sniper could have a different overkill mechanic. Ex Lanka = elec field overkill

The multi target aiming thing would be some kind of lock on system and not like the ignis is any respect. You'd probably have to wait for a lock on and keep your targets within a reticle requiring some level of skill whilst being easier to do at range. There might also be a cap as to the max amount of enemies you can target at once. It wouldn't target weak spots so you'd still have the option to use your normal fire mode (and there you can have your skill). The idea that weak spots could now trigger special abilities can be implemented here, giving the player a measure of specialization as to what they want to do. They could choose to take use of either the auto aim or the procs on weak spot hits.

As a note, I'd prefer something better than just 3m explosion as it seems like a rather lame effect.

Another idea could be a two phase fire system, you aim at where you want the bullet to land - click, move onto another target - click (etc etc) then press a button and the sniper fires bullets at all those points at once - that'd be skill based and kinda cool, but it still wouldn't solve the amount of enemies killed per second really, more just a burst of high dmg. That's just another idea.

On thought, a lot of different things could be done with ammo selection although please, no mod cards for this. Just craftable ammo packs which allow you to switch ammo, ideally in game.

Also do something about Primed Chamber. If any of these ideas are introduced it'd be far too OP.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Remove Soma. Problem solved.

[BrazilianJoe]

Remove Soma. Problem solved.

 

pfffft. stop trolling.

 

TO make snipers viable by removing weapons, DE would need to remove all bows, and Marelok too, at least. But that's not a solution, it's pandering. 

 

I like the scopes idea, but I also think that snipers should have a 'kill streak' mechanic, where every consecutive hit gives it +10% damage, up to +100% damage. Missing a shot wipes the bonus. they also need damage buffs overall. And Lanka should not have charge, it's a signature bow mechanic. 

 

I also think that snipers should totally have native punch-through. It's not really inventive, but it is necessary/makes sense. 

[Riot_Inducer]

Base 100% crit chance.

New skins based on borderlands 2 snipers. (particularly Hyperion ones)

Pff, Hyperion snipers. I'll stick with my Jakobs, thank you, all the power none of that damn scope wobble

 

On topic, I very much like the idea of snipers getting specialized scope mods, would also very much like it if my Vectis scope didn't wash out everything, makes actual sniping somewhat difficult on the rare occasions I do find a nice long range spot to shoot from.

 

Also, maybe I'm just a sniper/accuracy nut but I still prefer my Vectis over bows. That charge/travel time kinda kills them past medium range for me.  

[taiiat]

On topic, I very much like the idea of snipers getting specialized scope mods, would also very much like it if my Vectis scope didn't wash out everything, makes actual sniping somewhat difficult on the rare occasions I do find a nice long range spot to shoot from.

 

Also, maybe I'm just a sniper/accuracy nut but I still prefer my Vectis over bows. That charge/travel time kinda kills them past medium range for me.  

- mmm, those Sniping Optics are unnecessarily occluded.

 

- what of the Sniper Rifles in Borderlands? they aren't Hit-Scan there ;)

and it was still easy to Headshot things at long distances, even if they were moving. my 2cents.

[Riot_Inducer]

- what of the Sniper Rifles in Borderlands? they aren't Hit-Scan there ;)

and it was still easy to Headshot things at long distances, even if they were moving. my 2cents.

Neither did I, the BL2 snipers however shot at much higher velocities than our bows, or at least that's my explanation for why It's a hell of a lot easier for me to lead and hit with BL2 snipers than Warframe Bows.  

[SteeleTheShow]

Pff, Hyperion snipers. I'll stick with my Jakobs, thank you, all the power none of that damn scope wobble

 

Hyperion? Jakobs? That's all fine and dandy, but there's only 1 sniper for me

 

 

On topic: I think you have some good ideas OP. I like the idea of sniper scopes having imaging similar to the codex scanner and highlighting weak points.

Edited April 30, 2014 by SteeleTheShow

[Paradoxbomb]

 Another important factor that I think should be addressed is snipers (and other precision weapons) getting individual weakspot damage multipliers. Currently, you get a x2 multiplier on a normal headshot, but a x4 damage multiplier on a critical hit headshot. However, this is a flawed design for a precision weapon like a sniper, as they're nearly useless for their intended purpose compared to high DPS weapon until you've thrown every critical hit and multishot mod on them you can (so right off the bat they have the disadvantage of being sub-par until you've maxed them out).

 

On top of that, while the critical hit system is really good for automatic weapons like the Soma , it's not nearly as beneficial for Snipers since when you don't get that critical hit, you really feel it badly.

 

If Snipers had an innate x4 damage multiplier, they would feel a lot more like reliable Heavy killers even if you haven't maxed them out yet, and critical hits would be the icing on the cake rather than a necessity just to do decent damage. Could also have the added bonus of bringing some of the more OP crit weapons in line (I mean x4 headshot damage on an automatic like the Soma is a bit crazy, no?)

 

Ideally, I think damage multipliers should be set up like this.

 

Automatic Rifles/Shotguns: x2

Misc. Semi-autos (Lato, Vasto), Electric guns (Synapse, Amprex): x2.5

Bows/Crossbows/Marksman rifles/Precision pistols (Seer, Lex): x3

Sniper Rifles: x4

 

(obviously, Crit damage would still multiply all damage by an additional x2, regardless of where the enemy was shot)

 

 

+1 to the OP as well, a lot of these changes would really help give sniper rifles a bit of an edge in keeping up with the massive mobs while still having a distinct advantage against Heavy units.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[TrashSpider]

+1 Hell yes, I would also like the option to adjust the zoom level of my scope, instead of it being in your face. 

[taiiat]

+1 Hell yes, I would also like the option to adjust the zoom level of my scope, instead of it being in your face. 

i'd just rather have a 3D scope.

 

granted, it might look a bit awkward in a third person shooter, but 3D scopes really brings the task of aiming to life. makes aiming something that's enjoyable, rather than just something you do.

Edited April 30, 2014 by taiiat

[SANIC_HEGEHOG]

How aobut

Sniper rifles always have 100% accuracy

that way heavy caliber is really good with them

[Seele]

How aobut

Sniper rifles always have 100% accuracy

that way heavy caliber is really good with them

Between Serration, Split Chamber, Primed Chamber, Charged Chamber, and elemental mods, modding for damage has never been the issue.

While I think this is a solid idea, snipers need some base stat buffs.