These New Ospreys Are... Too Strong.

[RancidTurnip1603]

Actually, I do shoot her immediately because she can't cast link while staggered. If she gets a link off I stop firing and pull back. Which isn't exactly an option with mutalist ospreys because they zip around like oxium ospreys and they bring the poison to you.

Now, as for your claim: It's nonsense. The gas clouds are so huge that in certain tiles (ie most of the tiles in the event and a lot of grineer/corpus ship tiles), it's literally impossible to dodge. Get caught in a hallway by a mutalist osprey or several (as has happened to me several times during the event)? Enjoy being downed.

Well, unless you main Rhino like I do. But it's a bad thing when only the frame who can outright ignore unfun nonsense like that is viable.

I never said you have to dodge it 100% of the time, it hardly even does damage unless you're playing into the levels that were never intended to be balanced in the first place. Since when was the tileset small? You talk about the rooms in the tileset being tiny, which is not true in the slightest. The majority of the rooms in the event are huge, it would take at least 4 or 5 of those guys to even cover most of it IF they're releasing toxin in different places at all times, there are a few narrow hallways that are the exceptions, but seriously that tileset for the most part gives ample room and multiple pathways.

 

I don't particularly see how the current playstyle re shields and health is broken. The issue with vitality not being as appealing as redirection is a matter of there not being enough convenient ways to heal. To fix that you should give players options, not take options away by forcing them into certain cookie cutter builds.

Please, with the AI we have now there is no point in ever doing anything different. There is consistently at least one thread complaining about how repetitive the game is, throw on a bunch of shields, nuke and gun down every single enemy with no challenge, move to next room, rinse repeat. Bullying DE into keeping that boring repetitive style as king simply because you don't want to try something new is counter-productive to the game at heart. There are plenty of convenient ways to heal, there is an aura that passively heals you over time, how is that anything but convenient? The multitudes of energy orbs you already pick up can be changed to also restore health, you can plop down a health restore in half a second that heals for 500 health, the only conceivably inconvenient one is lifestrike, but it also requires the least amount of trade-off for the largest reward.

 

The only reason these healing methods are considered bad or inconvenient is because most of the time they aren't even necessary, which is a broken system, and it's universally the people who can't prepare and adapt that think the ospreys are overpowered.

 

You do realize that some people might not have multiple frames, right? With the damage mitigation mods being both insufficient (a max health loki with antitoxin still isn't walking away from a mutalist osprey fart party) and available solely at RNG's whim? With the restoring health mods also being RNG dependent and often rare mods to boot?

Try to think about it from the perspective of someone other than a vet with craploads of mods and resources.

 

First off, a full health loki with anti-toxin isn't getting dropped by a osprey in less than a second, that's a load of bulsh and I would love to see you try and prove it.

 

As far as newbies however, this is the only good argument anyone has come up with so far, and I agree they should be taken off of the first 3-4 planets.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Monolake]

Except that it's not.

 

The damage is avoidable 95% of the time, and even when it's not, there are mods out there that reduce the amount of damage you take significantly (which is more than can be said of bleed procs), and even more mods, abilities, and items that can restore lost health.

 

Just because you are overly dependent on your shield to tank 99% of the damage sources in the game doesn't mean DE doesn't know what they're doing. Likewise, If people don't want to use mods for the situations it's intended for, that's on them.

But many frames are designed to tank with shields only, they have really puny health pool and no armor, even with antitox mod Mag or Volt drop in no time in a poison cloud in ODD.  Its again like with broken lamps - you are forced to play Rhino/Trinity or suffer. 

[Methanoid]

would be nice if you had the team UI up so we could see the shields/hp of the person eating toxins, also did they even try to move or just stand and shoot.

[vaugahn]

The main problem I have with them is their tendency to fart all over the pod. At least on the corpus ship and grineer ship defense tilesets, it only takes a few ospreys to cover not only the pod but the entire platform where the pod is sitting, all while melee infested are going at it. Sure, you can sit back and shoot, but not being able to get anywhere close to the pod can be a serious hindrance for players running melee or using shorter-ranged abilities.

 

Reducing the frequency of the farts would address a lot of that. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I never said you have to dodge it 100% of the time, it hardly even does damage unless you're playing into the levels that were never intended to be balanced in the first place.

 

Level 25 is not "levels that were never intended to be balanced in the first place." Neither is level 30. Or level 40. Because, you know, enemies will start at those levels in high level planets. I'm not talking about level 999/8 hours of survival here, I'm talking about the average levels you'll encounter playing around ceres, pluto, eris, or the event.

 

Since when was the tileset small? You talk about the rooms in the tileset being tiny, which is not true in the slightest. The majority of the rooms in the event are huge, it would take at least 4 or 5 of those guys to even cover most of it IF they're releasing toxin in different places at all times, there are a few narrow hallways that are the exceptions, but seriously that tileset for the most part gives ample room and multiple pathways.

 

The hive rooms are generally large, but the hallways to get to the hive rooms are invariably narrow with only one path. Problem being, mutalist ospreys just love spawning in those narrow hallways. Just one osprey is enough to cover the whole hallway.

 

Please, with the AI we have now there is no point in ever doing anything different. There is consistently at least one thread complaining about how repetitive the game is, throw on a bunch of shields, nuke and gun down every single enemy with no challenge, move to next room, rinse repeat. Bullying DE into keeping that boring repetitive style as king simply because you don't want to try something new is counter-productive to the game at heart. There are plenty of convenient ways to heal, there is an aura that passively heals you over time, how is that anything but convenient? The multitudes of energy orbs you already pick up can be changed to also restore health, you can plop down a health restore in half a second that heals for 500 health, the only conceivably inconvenient one is lifestrike, but it also requires the least amount of trade-off for the largest reward.

 

A RNG dependent aura that most frames don't have the polarity to use without forma, yes. A RNG dependent equlibirum mod that takes a huge number of mod points to max and even then requires you to have room for energy to work (ie you can't have a full tank of energy), yes. These are not particularly convenient ways to encourage players to use vitality.

This has nothing to do with doing things new, it has everything to do with new things should not be inherently unfun and bad. I mean, the exact same logic you're using to justify this bullS#&$ can also be used to justify broken lights or nervos, both things that were removed because they were unfun bullS#&$. Again, I play Rhino here, so I've never died to the poison procs since I just waltz on through with iron skin. That doesn't mean I can't see how horrible they are for gameplay.

 

Also, players complaining about things doesn't necessarily mean those complaints are valid or well-reasoned. They can be, but "there's always a thread about this, therefore it's a problem" is no argument at all. People complain about all sorts of things - I remember for a long time the Gorgon was considered OP, long after its meganerf to accuracy.

 

The only reason these healing methods are considered bad or inconvenient is because most of the time they aren't even necessary, which is a broken system, and it's universally the people who can't prepare and adapt that think the ospreys are overpowered.

 

The reason they're considered bad and inconvenient is that they don't provide enough usefulness to equal things that are always useful like steel charge or energy siphon. "Hurr durr, I'm going to force players to slot in these less useful mods for one situation" is just creating a one true build, and that's crappy game design. A Nova doesn't have room for survivability mods and damage mods even with a potato, there's simply not enough slots. Your suggestion basically tells players who like squishy caster frames that they can't play the event or fight vs infested.

 

The proper way to make them worthwhile is buffing them with utility so they can actually compete with the must have mods.

 

First off, a full health loki with anti-toxin isn't getting dropped by a osprey in less than a second, that's a load of bulsh and I would love to see you try and prove it.

 

Well, let's see. I've got just over 600 points in total for the event. The ospreys are level 35-40 when I run it. My survivability-built Rhino (without antitoxin, it must be said - but AT isn't that huge a reduction) is down to 1/3rd health by the time the proc is over if I don't cast iron skin. Rhino has a base health of twice Loki's.

[LordBeeBrain]

Possibly the simplest thing DE can do to make them easier, yet still have them be a challenge.

 

1: Make it bigger. Actually, make them infested Oxium Ospreys. This would make them slower and the bigger hitbox makes them easier to damage.

2: Instead of their main attack being the fart cloud, give them a toxic needle launcher. (Similar to acrid?)

3: When their health is low, give them the Oxium osprey suicide attack. THIS will create the toxic cloud. It makes it easier, since they can't spam it anymore.

[Pizzarugi]

Nyx and Rhino seem to be mostly unaffected by them for the most part. Nyx can use chaos and turn those annoying clouds into neutral weapons against the infested, and rhino just has iron skin. The ospreys also appear to not give a flying **** about vauban's bastille and vortex either.

[Solinias]

I do agree that they're a fair bit OP in regards to their Toxins. Yes there's been several mentions in different threads including this one of "WHY DON'T YOU DODGE?! (/Piccolo)" or "You need a better build!" and I do understand it's supposed to bypass your shields. I do like the Osprey, annoying as it is since I find it a nice touch to the Infestation spectrum, but when you're doing defense missions and you're getting 5 to 10 a wave and filling up the ENTIRE, I repeat: ENTIRE map with their toxic clouds on-top of scaling and increasing numbers with every round, it's kiiiiiiiiiiinda hard to dodge or live very long even if you completely throw out your build for a max health/resistance one.

 

And let's face it, not many people have access to a Rhino or play Rhino on a regular basis, and to introduce such death to new players who are just starting and run their first Infested mission? The DoT could use some tweaking so you're not dying the first eight seconds of exposure as well as a  more visible AoE + sound indication that the clouds are about to be dropped would be nice, you know, so you're not gang-raped from behind when they sneak up on you quieter than a Stalker poofing in from behind with Hate raised high.

 

The hitbox is another issue as mentioned too; I play with a maxed three(?) Forma'd Phage with maxed Hell's Chamber so I get quite a bit of area coverage, with the right amount of spread I still have to go through an entire clip just trying to find, aim and take down at least ONE of them. It does need a bigger hitbox.

 

I also find that they have absolute immunity to Vauban when it comes to Bastille, and just the slightest bit of resistance to Vortex (they will get caught and pulled into it but only for a second then fly away like nothing's happened). I take it that their mechanics and AI give them boss immunities to those two skills?

 

And that's my opinion.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Solinias

[KaeporaRice]

I just got done doing the Gift from the lotus alert.
It was a 10 wave defense mission against infest and I have to say I never had such a hard time fighting infested as Vauban before.

They would either swarm and fart together at once, and if that damage going past my shield wasn't bad enough, I was getting poison ticked by the status effect. I would watch my health go from 400 to 100 in a single tick. I can only imagine the pain of some of the weaker frames who build up mostly shield due to their lack of armor.

Besides the amount of damage they deal out for a first wave infest; they also seem to wonder off on their own 90% of the time. Extremely slowing down the rate of which we cleared waves.

I honestly feel that if I ever go up against infested now, I have to bring a gun. I have to bring vitality, I Have to bring healing auras. I have to bring heal kits. How annoying. Now I imagine that a nova would be the only sure way to clear a wave fast and hopefully domino those flying things.

Edited June 20, 2014 by KaeporaRice

[HurpadurpusRex]

I like the ospreys a lot. especially that they carry crawlers.

 

I do not find the difficulty to be in excess.

[CY13ERPUNK]

Anti-toxin, vitality, steel fiber for the high armor frames, and a reliable means to heal (Equilibrium, Life strike, Desecrate, Reckoning, Blessing, Rejuvenation, Well of Life, Team health restores and more)

 

pick any of the first 3, and number 4.

 

If you don't want to build tanky or healing items, then learn how to avoid the damage. Don't stand in the green clouds, if the osprey is going to charge get out of the way, don't stand in the green clouds, give the osprey some space, and don't stand in the green clouds.

 

If you think avoiding damage is too hard, and you don't want to build your loadout in a way to compensate, then I think you're playing the wrong game. May I suggest "Hello Kitty: Magical Pony Adventure"?

 

^^^^^^^^^^ yep 

[Ketec]

the toxic damage is insane.

 

I tried to run around with Excalibur - 600hp AND 45% toxic resist. at around lvl 30 - the clouds  deal insane damage. A pyrana that takes a shot to kill leapers takes two clips - sometimes 3 to kill one of those.

 

Add all the toxic crawlers, toxic infested,  viral/pathogen eximus and the poison clouds in the event map.

 

 

The 9 points the antitoxin uses + a warframe slot is NOT helping at all.

for the cost of niche use and 9 points it should be at least 60% - like fire resistance is.
There is no counter right now besides rhino and trinity... again.

[BigPurpleHarness]

My only real complaint is that they made them flying... Flying mobs CONSTANTLY get stuck under floors, above ceilings, in doors, etc. I don't want a 5 minute hide and seek session every wave of defense. F***, increase Infested Health and Damage +300% and I'd be fine. But don't put in more flying mobs until their AI isn't god awful. :(

[Bennandri]

it's not the osprey that's op.. it's the goddamned poison :/

 

The toxic cloud they produce is barely visible (at least on my graphic settings) their sphere of influence is wider than the visible particles, the effect is unblockable, last for 7 seconds and can rip away a lot of your limited HPs.

 

They need less HP, a weaker damage for their procs and a more visible cloud.

 

This right here. The ospreys themselves are fine. The biggest problem is that the poison clouds seem to scale in power very quickly, and can incapacitate most players without giving much chance of avoiding the damage. Lots of people also seem to have trouble telling exactly where the cloud's boundaries are. Any changes to the osprey should focus on the poison cloud. Make it more visible, tone down the damage scaling a bit, and maybe lower the proc rate/damage. Ever since the toxic ancients lost their death clouds, the infested have been in a serious need of a unit that can provide area denial. I think these ospreys could do a great job filling that role, but I also think that they should be more dangerous in swarms. One or two may be a nuisance, any more than that becomes a threat.

[Bennandri]

Also, I think if the ospreys were tweaked to release their poison clouds less often, that might go a long way to making them less problematic. If you could approach them knowing that the clouds had some kind of cooldown -- needing to build up the gases inside them again, something like that -- you might be able to intentionally set off their cloud, then get out of range and take them down while they couldn't release another one. Sort of like shockwave moas. A mechanic like that could introduce some actual skill or strategy into trying to deal with them, instead of just hoping you can find some space they haven't poisoned to roll to before they turn around and charge at you again.

[Methanoid]

I just got done doing the Gift from the lotus alert.

It was a 10 wave defense mission against infest and I have to say I never had such a hard time fighting infested as Vauban before.

 

only time i see anyone having issues are the people who have got into the habbit of standing in 1 place lobbing penta/ogris/castana shots and expecting to be safe the whole game, if your actually moving around and activly looking for those flying units (and deal with them first) its still pretty easymode, esp with vauban as he still immobilises everything else while you deal with the flying stuff

Edited June 23, 2014 by Methanoid

[Arabaxus]

The problem with these ospreys is the duration of the toxin. If you make it 4 seconds rather than 8, we would see less of the toxin death bullS#&$tery.

 

Anyone who's trying to level up frames in infested struggles since 8 seconds of this toxin will drop most frames, unless your name is Rhino and you have iron skin.

 

It's not hard hard difficult, but they simply make the game less fun, and more annoying. Plus they get caught all over the map. I've been doing Sechura and ever since the introduction of these ospreys, I've already had three matches where an infested got stuck outside the map today alone.

[Methanoid]

The problem with these ospreys is the duration of the toxin. If you make it 4 seconds rather than 8, we would see less of the toxin death bullS#&$tery.

 

Anyone who's trying to level up frames in infested struggles since 8 seconds of this toxin will drop most frames, unless your name is Rhino and you have iron skin.

 

It's not hard hard difficult, but they simply make the game less fun, and more annoying. Plus they get caught all over the map. I've been doing Sechura and ever since the introduction of these ospreys, I've already had three matches where an infested got stuck outside the map today alone.

 

1) Move away/dont stand in the toxins.

2) Team Heal Restores

3) Kill them before they deploy heaps of toxins, flying stuff kinda stands out esp now their expected.

4) Team Heal Restores

 

mentioned Team Heals's twice as its something i just never see in public games, we have the means and the tools to both kill the units involved and deal with the damage if we do get caught, if ppl cant be bothered making the heals and using them then thats basically unlucky, other ppl do and we survive, the npc's dont need to be gimped to suit the lazy.

 

infested should be a challenge, if anything i cant wait for those other units to help up my pulse rate some more instead of going to sleep.

[Cabadath5]

Complaining despite that they are instantly destroyed when you press 4(xept for a few warframes and when endless defense is taken a bit too literally or on late survival) and that most high level weapons kill them in one shot and the gas cloud is clearly visible.

 

Warframe community pls

 

The poison doesn't do that much damage unless you stand there in it. They probably weren't using Vitality and had no method of restoring health. I think the Infested Ospreys are fine. It's bad enough people wined to get the toxic ancient poison cloud removed... 

[Bennandri]

Complaining despite that they are instantly destroyed when you press 4(xept for a few warframes and when endless defense is taken a bit too literally or on late survival) and that most high level weapons kill them in one shot and the gas cloud is clearly visible.

 

Warframe community pls

It's possible there might be some visibility issues for people running on lower graphics settings. I'm not sure, but it's worth considering.

[Methanoid]

It's possible there might be some visibility issues for people running on lower graphics settings. I'm not sure, but it's worth considering.

 

glowing green visible or not, if it fly's, shoot it in the foreskull.

[Renegade343]

glowing green visible or not, if it fly's, shoot it in the foreskull.

And wonder why a hit-scan bullet managed to pass through its 'eyes' without it taking damage, nor showing a damage number. 

[__Kanade__]

Infested were bound to get their own 'Nervos'.

[Zaresin]

And wonder why a hit-scan bullet managed to pass through its 'eyes' without it taking damage, nor showing a damage number. 

 

That would be called lag my dear.

[Renegade343]

That would be called lag my dear.

Not on a solo mission.