Mutalist Ospreys: Obviously Not Challenging, Just Annoying.

[CBAROG]

Oh man, this just reminded me that I've never seen a Zephyr in this mission... I'm even more sad now...

 

Dang. Invite me to your Breeding Grounds mission next time. I always use a Zephyr for that mission, just for her high shields/health and the occasional use of Tail Wind/Tornado to get out of sticky situations. 

Same here.

If I go solo enemies have 99th level. Mutalist Osprey is a death sentence. And I didn't know that. Was happily helping pugs. Built my total points up to 1500. And when I tried to get Prova Vandal I had to go through hell. Still got it.

Edited June 22, 2014 by CBAROG

[Taranis49]

It's still very avoidable. It's not like they're grineer commanders, switching you around and locking you in one place, evrything without any chance to dodge it.

 

As noted, that's not really the case. The clouds can be unavoidable depending on either a.) the number of Ospreys that spawn, or b.) the tileset. Particularly in confined spaces like the New Infested Ship tileset or the old Corpus ship tileset, and doubly so if they're camping an elevator.

 

It's not challenge if player skill doesn't make a difference, full stop. They suffer from the same problems Mag Eximi do.

 

Nevermind that they don't accomplish the goal of "synergizing enemies" DE set out. The crawler-carrying gimmick is just that, a gimmick (particularly since, far as I can tell, even Lobber crawlers need to be dropped to attack, for some reason). The Ospreys don't support the other infested, they simply supplant them - the crawlers in particular, they're just as irrelevant as they always were.

[LascarCapable]

So all the time i spent on my vauban was a waste of time. I should throw away my vauban? that's unfair.

 

Come on, that's a totally absurd reasoning. I don't see why you should put away a frame that stops 3/4 of the room due to a little poisoning AoE attack.

 

 

They won't chase me everywhere? You seem to forget that they charge at players at really high speeds with a two-second cooldown.

 

I never heard anybody complain about hitbox or health of the ospreys. They are fine to me.

 

And mutalist ospreys forcing you to not stay at the same point? How are people supposed to play defense, then? More hallways heroes?

 

No offense, but sorry. I disagree with all you've just said.

 

They're not charging that often, their aera of effect is not that big. Also nothing prevents you from throwing a Vortex or some Penta grenades (or something else) from a bit farther. You mustn't stay at the same place, that doesn't mean leave the cryopod away. There's other tactics to defend your cryopod from a bit afar without being a door hero or something (Mag can clean out the cryopod zone at a cheap price, Vauban can throw a Vortex...). Also, in those defense missions, you can try to take them out first and then deal with the other infested that you may have stopped.

 

It's just a gas cloud, it doens't mean that you can't attack everything in it. But of course if you do it with a melee weapon only you'll have some trouble.

[weirdee]

They're about as "avoidable" as the leaders: when you hear one around, you may not necessarily be able to see where it is, but in this case, it's because they're small, fly around with missing frames, and end up wedging themselves into things that can hide them, up until they actually do charge. The only reason why people put up with the oxium ospreys is that their exploding, while not dropping anything, is not nearly as bad as getting gassed or having a gas cloud the size of a limo lodge itself in an inconvenient location. Otherwise, the mechanic's pretty much a gamble when the target sees you first.

Edited June 22, 2014 by weirdee

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I never heard anybody complain about hitbox or health of the ospreys. They are fine to me.

 

 

No, he's right about that. The mutalist osprey hitbox is extremely messed up. They don't take damage on the wings. Also, their health is huge for a support unit.

 

But honestly, the biggest problem with them is the stacking toxic damage making low health frames useless. Switching it to viral would fix most of the gameplay problems with them while making them into decent support units for infested.

 

They're not charging that often, their aera of effect is not that big.

They charge every two seconds once dropping the crawler (which they do at the drop of a hat.) Their area effect is enormous, the size of a grineer/corpus plasma grenade.

 

Also nothing prevents you from throwing a Vortex or some Penta grenades (or something else) from a bit farther. You mustn't stay at the same place, that doesn't mean leave the cryopod away. There's other tactics to defend your cryopod from a bit afar without being a door hero or something (Mag can clean out the cryopod zone at a cheap price, Vauban can throw a Vortex...). Also, in those defense missions, you can try to take them out first and then deal with the other infested that you may have stopped.

 

That they "can" be defeated is no argument against how they're a cheap enemy.

 

It's just a gas cloud, it doens't mean that you can't attack everything in it. But of course if you do it with a melee weapon only you'll have some trouble.

 

I hope I'm not the only one who notices how terrible it is to have U13 be "The Sword Alone" and for DE to then introduce an extremely common enemy who can't be sworded.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Keltik0ne]

I still think DE should hire Notionphil as a consultant, arm him with a baseball bat and get him to "persuade" dev rethinks everytime he spots a bad idea getting fired about.

 

Although, DE may need to go on a hiring drive after a few hours :/

 

The mobs add literally no challenge, except when you get to the point in defence where a huge clump of them spawns at once and turns the map into a toxic dump. The OP nailed it.

[Datsumori]

Well already i played a T3 infected defence and now is viable. i Used my nova lvl19 and was really easy.

But sometimes one creep is getting bugg and the host have to leave for fix it.

 

So i won´t complain no more about that new flying mutalisk.

 

Thank you DE :D that hotfix really helps.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Datsumori

[Balduron04]

Here is my feedback:

 

1 - Warframes have a prefered playstyle. Adding in an enemy that negates a playstyle or forces people to do something specific will be met with hate. Ospreys are immune to Vauban. This is a generalization, and its mostly true. Ospreys of all types just ignore the CC of vortex and bastille. Giving one a repeatable, high damage, shield ignoring AoE attack is just mean.

 

2 - Mutalisks have too much HP. Why do they get to survive when ancients die to the same aoe damage? I've seen this from Rhino stomp.

 

3 - Mutalisk payloads are ineffective. The Crawlers are tiny little speedbumps that are not much of a threat. I think their threat levels need a buff. Either increase their disabling potential, or drastically increase their durability, because they evaporate faster than the rest of the infested. My suggestion for a crawler would be that if it manages to get into melee range, instead of doing damage, it crawls up onto your frame and slows you down quite a bit. This large amount of CC would make up for their weak defenses and slow speed, allowing them to still be a threat even within the massive amount of infested swarm.

 

4 - Mutalisk's Toxic Curtain has too much damage for ignoring shields. Currently, its avoid or die. So don't touch it, or be immune to it, especially for the people who are going for the Prova from the event. As the infested levels scale up, the toxin damage increases dramatically, but our hitpoints have a static cap. Perhaps the toxin damage should not scale, or maybe it should only do toxic procs and not do straight damage at all.

 

5 - The event maps they spawn on favor close combat. There are LOTS of corners on the maps. Winding tunnels, low ceilings, and corners reduce the gun's effectiveness and increase the swarming potential of the infested. By the time you see some of the mutalisks, its too late most of the time to avoid their spooge dash.

 

6 - They are frustrating to shoot. More-so that most other ospreys. They have very quick lateral movement, a small hitbox, high HP (previously mentioned) and have an AI that will only move when your cursor is on it. I swear on me mum.

 

7 - They have an AI that will only move when your cursor is on it. I swear on me mum.

 

8 - Mutalisks are one-trick wonders. All they have is their toxic curtain. Give them a ranged attack, or have them go back and pick up MORE crawlers so that they stop decorating the entire map with the damn toxic curtains.

 

9 - Mutalisks travel in packs. I've been doing the event for a while. I'm over 1000 points total, and a majority of the time that I see one, I see three more in the next 30 seconds. There's 5 infested runners, 2 leapers, and 3 mutalisk ospreys that like to spawn and run together, leaving behind their 3 ancient brothers to be cleanup.

 

10 - They don't self-destruct or die after they dash. Maybe they should as a balancing factor. I was in a mission where one of these buggers ruined my day SEVERAL TIMES. I was holding against oncoming runners, when he blindsides me from the right and drops a curtain on me. I run out of the curtain, almost die to the toxic, and the runners are on me. I swap to melee to deal with them and make some space, and a return visit sets me back again. I was fortunate enough to get the last energy orb I needed to deal with the mob, but as I was walking forward, I had to shoot the bastard before he dropped another load on me.

 

Change the sound effect. I don't like getting spooged on, especially when its deadly. Spooge that puts me on my back so a charger can stand over me and *X^%# should not be a reason why this game is rated M.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Balduron04

[Marthrym]

 

I hope I'm not the only one who notices how terrible it is to have U13 be "The Sword Alone" and for DE to then introduce an extremely common enemy who can't be sworded.

^Hey, good point! Didn't think of that one.^^

Though Geoff mentioned that they were going to test stuff to see if it was possible to give us air attacks with melee weapons in the last devstream. Fingers crossed on this one.^^

 

 

They're not charging that often, their aera of effect is not that big. Also nothing prevents you from throwing a Vortex or some Penta grenades (or something else) from a bit farther. You mustn't stay at the same place, that doesn't mean leave the cryopod away. There's other tactics to defend your cryopod from a bit afar without being a door hero or something (Mag can clean out the cryopod zone at a cheap price, Vauban can throw a Vortex...). Also, in those defense missions, you can try to take them out first and then deal with the other infested that you may have stopped.

 

It's just a gas cloud, it doens't mean that you can't attack everything in it. But of course if you do it with a melee weapon only you'll have some trouble.

Actually, they DO charge VERY often. Every 2-3 seconds kind of often actually. Either you're extremely lucky and we're not, or there's a double standard there.^^'

[Gawker]

Here is my feedback:

 

1 - Warframes have a prefered playstyle. Adding in an enemy that negates a playstyle or forces people to do something specific will be met with hate. Ospreys are immune to Vauban. This is a generalization, and its mostly true. Ospreys of all types just ignore the CC of vortex and bastille. Giving one a repeatable, high damage, shield ignoring AoE attack is just mean.

 

2 - Mutalisks have too much HP. Why do they get to survive when ancients die to the same aoe damage? I've seen this from Rhino stomp.

 

3 - Mutalisk payloads are ineffective. The Crawlers are tiny little speedbumps that are not much of a threat. I think their threat levels need a buff. Either increase their disabling potential, or drastically increase their durability, because they evaporate faster than the rest of the infested. My suggestion for a crawler would be that if it manages to get into melee range, instead of doing damage, it crawls up onto your frame and slows you down quite a bit. This large amount of CC would make up for their weak defenses and slow speed, allowing them to still be a threat even within the massive amount of infested swarm.

 

4 - Mutalisk's Toxic Curtain has too much damage for ignoring shields. Currently, its avoid or die. So don't touch it, or be immune to it, especially for the people who are going for the Prova from the event. As the infested levels scale up, the toxin damage increases dramatically, but our hitpoints have a static cap. Perhaps the toxin damage should not scale, or maybe it should only do toxic procs and not do straight damage at all.

 

5 - The event maps they spawn on favor close combat. There are LOTS of corners on the maps. Winding tunnels, low ceilings, and corners reduce the gun's effectiveness and increase the swarming potential of the infested. By the time you see some of the mutalisks, its too late most of the time to avoid their spooge dash.

 

6 - They are frustrating to shoot. More-so that most other ospreys. They have very quick lateral movement, a small hitbox, high HP (previously mentioned) and have an AI that will only move when your cursor is on it. I swear on me mum.

 

7 - They have an AI that will only move when your cursor is on it. I swear on me mum.

 

8 - Mutalisks are one-trick wonders. All they have is their toxic curtain. Give them a ranged attack, or have them go back and pick up MORE crawlers so that they stop decorating the entire map with the damn toxic curtains.

 

9 - Mutalisks travel in packs. I've been doing the event for a while. I'm over 1000 points total, and a majority of the time that I see one, I see three more in the next 30 seconds. There's 5 infested runners, 2 leapers, and 3 mutalisk ospreys that like to spawn and run together, leaving behind their 3 ancient brothers to be cleanup.

 

10 - They don't self-destruct or die after they dash. Maybe they should as a balancing factor. I was in a mission where one of these buggers ruined my day SEVERAL TIMES. I was holding against oncoming runners, when he blindsides me from the right and drops a curtain on me. I run out of the curtain, almost die to the toxic, and the runners are on me. I swap to melee to deal with them and make some space, and a return visit sets me back again. I was fortunate enough to get the last energy orb I needed to deal with the mob, but as I was walking forward, I had to shoot the bastard before he dropped another load on me.

 

Agree with everything he said. I get that you want players to move around a bit but having a 2-seconds-you-die effect is not the right way to go about it.

[Naftal]

I'm sick of seeing this crap every time something actually challenging is introduced. "It's not challenging, it's annoying"

 

This could be said about any feature related to the game and it would be as true and as stupid argument.

[Wyrd42]

I'm adding this to the current Osprey thread, as I don't feel it warrants its own thread, but I have to admit to a measure of concern regarding copyright laws and Starcraft.  Starcrafts Zerg produce a flying unit called a mutalisk.  That's only a one letter difference for a faction that has a lot of other stuff in common with this game's infestation.  The Zerg version is entirely organic instead of a robot drone that has been infested, and the Mutalisk attacks by flinging spike balls, but if there is no association between the developers of this game and the copyright holders for Starcraft, that is an expensive lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Wyrd42]

I'm sick of seeing this crap every time something actually challenging is introduced. "It's not challenging, it's annoying"

 

This could be said about any feature related to the game and it would be as true and as stupid argument.

If that were the entirety of the argument, your point would be valid.  As is, the fact that their attack is not just overwhelming, but completely unpreventable for newer players, takes the mutalist from challenging to overpowered and annoying.  There is no skill involved with trying to survive several of them when they manage to gather, they can't be hit by most melee attacks, both because they use a PBAOE and their tendency to stay too high for them to be reached, and they dash often and repeatedly, making any slow weapons or less skilled wielders of faster weapons very ineffective for bringing them down.

 

I'm not calling for them to be removed.  I like the idea and the look.  I think they represent something that the infestation needs.  As they are, though, the mechanics of the unit have left me extremely leery of playing any infestation mission without bringing my Rhino and Penta, for damage resistance and area denial, respectively.

[Naftal]

If that were the entirety of the argument, your point would be valid.  As is, the fact that their attack is not just overwhelming, but completely unpreventable for newer players, takes the mutalist from challenging to overpowered and annoying.  There is no skill involved with trying to survive several of them when they manage to gather, they can't be hit by most melee attacks, both because they use a PBAOE and their tendency to stay too high for them to be reached, and they dash often and repeatedly, making any slow weapons or less skilled wielders of faster weapons very ineffective for bringing them down.

 

I'm not calling for them to be removed.  I like the idea and the look.  I think they represent something that the infestation needs.  As they are, though, the mechanics of the unit have left me extremely leery of playing any infestation mission without bringing my Rhino and Penta, for damage resistance and area denial, respectively.

If it's a skill issue then much shouldn't be done or the less skilled won't learn.

[EdBazokatone]

Their hitbox...

 

THEIR EFING HITBOX!!

[Varzy]

Toxic damage is fine if you're in the cloud, but the toxic proc is the real killer. +1 to the suggestion to change it to Viral proc. Don't make it an instant proc either!

 

Their hitboxes need work and they might need a little less health.

 

They need to telegraph their charge with a wind-up and a signature sound like the Oxium Osprey.

[Naftal]

I agree making the proc viral would be good but leave the damage type toxin so it bypasses shields.

[Uzpian]

Their hitbox...

 

THEIR EFING HITBOX!!

^Yes this.

[DeMeritus]

I don't mind the new ospreys.  Heck, I actually like them to a degree.  But being in a map tile with 5+ of them spawned thanks to RNG, where they spam their dashing+poisoncloud ability, blanketing the entire area.  That's just unavoidable damage that rapidly stacks.  Not to mention their annoying hitbox, meaning you'll likely end up taking out other infested first, possibly allowing for more infested spawning, which will possibly have some ospreys mixed into a group... which get hung up someplace... and cluster together when picking up and dropping off crawlers...  Congrats on running into a wall of ospreys.

 

Sort of seems a little like they bunch up due to navigation weirdness, then go berserk with dashing around like they just ate bad curry or tex-mex, and desperately need relief... often in flocks.

 

Doesn't happen often, but when it does...

 

Good times.

[Sarmon]

Edited Op to clarify the purpose of this thread. The hitbox issue is likely a bug and doesn't exactly have a place in this thread. [someone should probably make a thread about the hitbox in general bug forum] This thread is about their main ability.

 

Please stay on-topic about ideas to change their current overpowered toxic cloud charrge ability. Thanks.

[Hrodgrim]

Another big problem about the infested Osprey is that it is damn near impossible to kill them with melee.

I ran into an Orokin Derelict Exterminate just a few minutes ago, with only my Galatine, and it took several minutes to kill just ONE Osprey.

If only they hovered closer to the ground after dropping their crawling friend, then they'd be a little more manageable. 

 

They're also more durable than ancients of the same level.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Reefermun

[Demons3ye]

+1 OP, had to revive tons of teammates from these clouds... also the ospreys are derping everywhere and untouchable with a melee strike. 

 

Rhino, way to go... yey

[bonkfire]

YOU WANTED A CHALLENGE.  couldn't resist.but honestly get good.

[Sarmon]

DE nerfed the Mutalist ospreys spawnrate and damage... No no no no no! That still doesn't change the fact that they create a huge cloud that bypasses shields.

 

Mutalist ospreys are supposed to be SUPPORT not MAIN DAMAGER DEALERS. I realize that the infested are supposed to be a very aggressive faction, but having a small flying enemy which is a potential threat due to shield bypassing is just not fun in any way.

 

The viral or Corrosion damage idea seems to be a good one. DE, if you are reading this, please considering making it viral or corrosive instead of Toxin. Anything that doesn't bypass shields or drain all our energy is more fun than something that does and spawns often..

[Nagisawa]

Here is my feedback:

 

2 - Mutalisks have too much HP. Why do they get to survive when ancients die to the same aoe damage? I've seen this from Rhino stomp.

 

They're built from the Oxium Ospreys, which are INCREDIBLY tough.  But blow up if they hit a Tenno/Player after a charge.  And Oxium Ospreys are pretty much immune to most CC effects.