Oberon Bashing Needs To Stop

[Archwizard]

All I see is hate! This is a terrible post with no truth. "Both from a viability standpoint and design standpoint."

 

If you dont like Oberon so much then dont use him! Nothing you said was constructive criticism, but purely raw-hate. I can tell you do not use him and is one of those people that spread this "Oberon is terrible" hate around. Oberon is not bad. I consider him one of the top warframes in this game.

I quote "If you think Oberon is a good Warframe as he currently is then you seriously need to consider actually playing another frame." Go use another frame then, and I will use Oberon.

I quote "and holy @(*()$ god his arms are like twigs and are not anatomically possible whatsoever." I like the way he looks, so go screw yourself!

p.s. Your picture is disgusting, and your trolling!

 

The irony here is that you offhandedly insult someone and then accuse them of trolling, in sequence. Much like every discussion throughout this thread.

 

But I agree with everything Diarist said, as his arguments are based entirely on the facts of how his skills work.

 

Look at it from the perspective of other successful frames: All frames have a balance of damage, crowd control, survivability and occasionally mobility.

Frames with high damage output have some method of amplifying attacks provided by their or their allies weapons, rather than just focusing on the damage of their abilities; weapons can be modified past the point abilities can be boosted. Nova isn't considered one of the top damage frames because of her explosions, but because AMD has a 4x multiplier on projectiles and her ultimate doubles damage enemies take. Even Loki is considered a high damage frame because of Invisibility's 4x melee multiplier.

Frames with crowd control have cost-effective methods to stall enemies for long periods of time - emphasis on 'cost-effective', as skills of 75 energy or above tend to delay a mass of enemies from attacking for significant periods (the low end is Rhino's 8 seconds, and that's total vulnerability with no target limit and damage).

Frames with survivability need to be able to scale to the amount of damage their enemies are doing; it's exactly what has given Iron Skin so much flak, and the demand that caused Snow Globe to have 4 seconds of absorptive invulnerability.

 

Oberon has no method of increasing his own or his allies' damage output; only provides a ragdoll that can stun enemies for 2 seconds at a time on his ultimate; and his only methods of survival increase do not rise to challenge the increasing output of his enemies.

What he does provide is a flat damage value on all of his abilities, but the problem with flat damage is that the effectiveness of it (compared to just shooting the target) plateaus after a certain level as enemy survival increases. Less of an issue with armor-ignoring damage types like Finisher or Bleed, since armor causes health to increase exponentially but the increase is fairly linear without... but Oberon doesn't have one of those.

 

And he's right, Oberon's not really a paladin. He plays much more like a Radiation caster; none of his skills tell him to get up-close-and-personal with his enemies like a knight would, nor does he have any particular advantage against the Infested (as Warframe's zombie analogue).

[Rapxtor]

From what I see, your argument is to prove Oberon is useless and Rhino is better. "I smell a Rhino fanboy."

 

 

You were quick to call him "Rhino fanboy", but isnt you a Oberon fanboy since people are trying to explain why he desperably need a rework to be at par with other frames in later content, and specially bc all around him contradict what he was suposed to be in the first place?

 

I guess you should listen what some users are saying, that doesnt mean you should stop playing with him if he is at your taste, but since most of the community agreed that he need changes, a constructive thread would benefict the end result instead of defending something that doesnt work was it should.

[pikaMINDBOMB]

Oberon is filth, a disgrace, and everyone I know IRL that plays warframe yells "OH GREAT A DEERFACE " or "OH GOD A worthless DEERFACE". Even if they fixed Oberon and it's infinite mediocrity, it would still be a DEERFACE.

[PlayGooYa]

He's not a Paladin .... Paladins are palace guards ... they have armor..... He has antlers and low armor.... sooooo...he's a druid.

 

Comic book guy mode.

 

Historically, paladins were knights with unquestionable loyalty who followed the orders they were given, even if it meant the merciless butchery of civilians. Okay actually Charlemagne's knights who fought against the Saracens for the sake of Christendom and all that.

 

He's also referring to a game role common in MMO's as the off-healing fighter guy, which of course, is entirely unrelated to what they were historically.

Edited July 18, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[sasanao22]

Oberon is filth, a disgrace, and everyone I know IRL that plays warframe yells "OH GREAT A DEERFACE " or "OH GOD A worthless DEERFACE". Even if they fixed Oberon and it's infinite mediocrity, it would still be a DEERFACE.

we talking about repairing oberon please, kindly remove yourself if you just wanted to troll.

 

Comic book guy mode.

 

Historically, paladins were knights with unquestionable loyalty who followed the orders they were given, even if it meant the merciless butchery of civilians. Okay actually Charlemagne's knights who fought against the Saracens for the sake of Christendom and all that.

 

He's also referring to a game role common in MMO's as the off-healing fighter guy, which of course, is entirely unrelated to what they were historically.

 

well as one of trinity player , i agree if oberon "STUCK" between support & AOE crowd. would be better if the HG switched with other skill though since i try oberon once & meh what with this holy shiny place ? just to small and yeah not worth to use, compare to trinity energy vampire &blessing AOE. however in every single game like wise paladin > tanker & healer while in this game oberon actually a Crowd control & sub healer not a healer, since the full support was trinity *kindly correct me if i wrong :)* as a AOE crowd control oberon already got good 1st skill and 4th skill, as a sub healing ? .... dood what with this slimy green slow flying thing ? this need better speed to reach friend. so from the conclusion instead of paladin oberon should be druid or prophet since he's not a TANK and he does support but as sub healer & do crowd control which is very usefull to us.

renewal really need heavy rework, either got faster flying speed or giving a buff to other character or clean status effect which can be very usefull against infested

 

*cheers*

[Razorscuttingedge]

my problem with him is that all his abilitys drop off late game. In T3 i find that in a room full of people and you run in and use reckoning it only kills half because of the enemy limit on the ability that is what ruins is for me. i feel anyone within range should be hit, even if you somehow have 400 enemys in your range they should all be hit. that is why i do not like him. (i have him rank 30)

[Ralsk]

I just explained this idea of Oberon needing a buff to a friend tonight who likes him a lot.  The problem with Oberon is his abilities either are worthless, such as Hallowed Ground, or anything Oberon can do another frame can do better.  

 

Want CC? Go with Nova and Molecular Prime for slow enemy explosion goodness, Rhino for levitating helpless enemies, Vauban for Vortex grenades or Bastille stasis fields, Mag with Pull in a pinch, Zephyr's Tornado to scatter an enemy squad around a room, Excalibur to blind them, Hydroid for tentacle rag doll insanity.  I could go on but I think that's enough.

 

Want healing? Trinity.  Blessing.  Boom, instant full health and full shields no matter where the allies are in the level.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Ralsk

[Mak_Gohae]

Sounds like you'v never played T4. common mobs do 10x  more damage than Oberon can heal per second. Even in T3 Oberon heal is bad. Lvl30 heavy does more damage than Oberon can heal per second.  Vor can do approximately  ~300-500 dmg per second

Oberon 20 hp per second.is a joke of a heal (or ~50 if yo max it and make too expensive and un-spammable). And no one needs Oberon, when you have Trinity. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oberon is not a main healer, he is a support healer.

This is what people dont really understand here. People think that this frame is just V2 of a healing frame, it's not.

He does equal part dmg and healing. If you are expecting to heal like an actual healer with a back-up healer you are the one that is doing something wrong.

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned.

[DSpite]

To be honest I wasnt going to post the call for all the nerfs is pure ignorance but most of the time from what i have seen it is. I see plenty of time in region chat and squad chat people bashing Oberon. About 75% of this people bashing Oberon have never even used him or used him once or twice and started bashing him. I truly believe there is a culture of ignorant player Oberon bashing, that was created by ignorant player that continues to be past along by ignorant players. Many times I have seen people in region chat ask about Oberon. They ask is he a good warframe and people that dont know his power bash him. I ask them to a duel in survival.  The rules are who ever and stay alive the longest and get the most kills win. They get all sort of overrated frames like nova and lose. I have to revive them and I still get more kills than them. After the match they get mad and ignore me. I own multiple frames. I own a Nova and I can tell you without being a fanboy Nova is overrated and Oberon will out kill her anyday. After extensive playing and trying to chain kill with her she is no match for Oberon. The only Warframe that compares to Oberons area killing is Volt. Volt and Oberon have two of the most powerful ultimates in this game. Both of their ultimates deal damage and 100% proc to do crowd control. But the only thing Oberon have over Volt and many other frames is that Oberon is not squish and he can self heal! Oberon is super OP!

 

Please break up your paragraphs. It's hell on earth reading that.

 

I find it laughable that you think "more kills" or "less deaths" means squat in this game. I could Stomp enemies and remove them from play, and just because you are faster in finishing them off you are not "better". I could Radial Blind or Radial Disarm an entire tile, and this would still apply. ON the flipside, I can just perma cloak a Loki and switch Teleport you into mobs, or Rip Line you into things and YOU would be the one who dies all the time.

 

Simply because you pick a narrow set of parameters as to what defines a "win" means nothing.

 

As far as bashing Oberon. I like Oberon. My "bashing" of Oberon is pointing out that you can practically flush random toilets on spaceships and you get Oberon parts. When my cat vomits it's food I often check and look for glowing lines of light to indicate possible Oberon parts. A fire hydrant exploded on my street, sending a tight jet of water into the sky, and when the sun make it bright, I saw it and thought that Oberon parts had started dropping in the real world.

 

Oberon is not "as good" as you think. Most frames do a better job not because they are better but because the current missions, mob behavior and game mechanics are not better suited to Oberon style gameplay. Frames like Banshee also suffer, same as Sniper rifles suffer and same as many mods like Maglev currently suffer.

 

If and when DE expands the gameplay options we have, we will suddenly think "hey, this frame/gun/mod just got a WHOLE more awesome". Zero changes to the Frame, just a change to ability to use all of our toolbox more effectively.

 

Right now, large amounts of damage in short bursts is best for abilities. Frames with healing abilities yet have to come on their own, with so many tools we have already to get around it, either via mods, Restores, or just orbs everywhere.

[izzatuw]

He's a jack of all trades but a master of none.

I'll just skip Smite

Hollowed ground is uh what? I mean sure it does damage but enemies could easily walk pass it like a normal human walking on burning coal.

Renewal is outclassed simply by Nekros spamming Desecrate or Trinity using Blessing.

Reckoning is outclassed by Stomp because it has CC.

[DSpite]

Still armour nonetheless (heck, even paper can be armour [the fact that it almost does nothing is beside the point]), but I see your point. 

 

Just my PERSONAL view here:

 

As far as armor is concerned it either has to do damage mitigation or simply negate some effects. For a Frame to say "I have armor" then that damage mitigation should be at least 20%, if not 25% as a starting number, in WF this means 80-100 starting points. Anything with a lower amount is "caster" frames, that require an actual armor mod, to get up to par, and Oberon has 65. DE could have given some Frames scaling armor values, and if they had, Oberon might of been a good poster child, with armor going from say, the default 65 up to 100 at Rank 30 (40-100 making more sense maybe, gaining 2 points per level, as the "Paladin" gets better)

 

In many games "Paladins" also get effects mitigation. Could of been cool that when wielding an elemental weapon, he would have massive damage mitigation to that element type, and as a balance, taking more damage from others, or even allow him to apply individual Elements (ie not stacked in pairs) on melee weapons via an aura ... or a million other things to make him more unique.

 

I'm just saying that when you start pulling Frame ideas out of orifices, you can go forever.

 

My only "point" here is that is you are in fact going to start referring to frames with adjectives like "Paladin" it would be cool to actually look up that class in other games and maybe give it something unique with a cons and pros just to make that class damn interesting to play.

 

I think running around with a Toxic Galatine while laughing and ignoring those pesky flying toxic cloud bastards would be awesome.

 

Oberon is fine. I just would really like him to be more Paladin-ish, but a game like WF is a *@##$ to balance. I'm willing to wait though, lot's of potential here.

[SteelSoldier]

Oberon is not a main healer, he is a support healer.

This is what people dont really understand here. People think that this frame is just V2 of a healing frame, it's not.

He does equal part dmg and healing. If you are expecting to heal like an actual healer with a back-up healer you are the one that is doing something wrong.

 

He has 2 skills that have healing effects, one that is unreliable and the other one that basically takes too long to take effect.

Then there are his offensive abilities, which to be far only his ultimate is decent, what´s the point of having a jack of all trades that aint useful at anything, so people dont want him in the party in the first place because every class does everything that he does better.

 

I would focus on trying to make him a Support/Tank, his ultimate and his Smite could be his only damage abilities, while his other 2 would be focused on tanking and support abilities.

 

Like I dont even understand why, he just doesnt have an aura skill that regenerates allies around him or that reduces overall damage done to them, that could be more useful than a stupid aoe ability that is only useful for a certain group of enemies.

Edited August 12, 2014 by SteelSoldier

[SteelSoldier]

Would be interesting if the Health Orbs dropped from Reckoning would scale with enemies level, also increasing it´s range wouldnt be a bad idea

[OrphanMaker]

Oberon is not a main healer, he is a support healer.

This is what people dont really understand here. People think that this frame is just V2 of a healing frame, it's not.

He does equal part dmg and healing. If you are expecting to heal like an actual healer with a back-up healer you are the one that is doing something wrong.

Thank you! I couldn't express it better. If you want a role-healer get trinity. Oberon heals are for support.

[Blueicyhydra]

From what I understand, just about no frame ultimate kills 20+ minutes in T4 Survival. Ultimates at that level are only useful for their proc ablities. Reckoining proc knockdown; which is good for Veteran players. All Veteran players know that ultimates is worthless damage wise but is  good for the Procs. For example, Oberon ultimates is good for knockdown, Nova ultimate is good for slowdown, Rhino ultimate is has it own proc which is levitation, Volt ultimate is good for stun-lock, Loki ultimate is good for disarming enemies, Frost ultimate does freeze proc, and etc.. Now to be honest Oberon is one of the better frames on the game because his ultimate does damage and proc. There are frames on this game that have ultimates does pure damage with no proc. These frames considerd by all means worthless. Oberon like a lot of frames is pretty good and as I said before if you can not use him properly in end game missions against high level enemies it is your problem because it is a test of your skill rather how many times you can press 4, the win button.

Ok, first of all im nearly positive my ash's bladestorm kills guys at 20 min in T4 surv. Next all oberon's ult does is knockdown, which is basically a worse version of rhino's ult or basically any ability with a stun. When i use oberon's ult at high lvls it does almost nothing guys are on the ground for like 3 seconds or lower then r back to killing u. Next, u cant call frames worthless because their ult sucks.Frost's ult falls under ur categorie of flat dmg no proc but even u listed him as a good frame to play at higher lvls. Yes oberon has a better ult that frost but as a frame frost is far better with all of his slows stuns and sg, where oberon has a too slow heal which is outclassed by trinity and other abilities that lack in utility and do flat dmg. Next, putting player's skill into the question is invalid. U cant compare 2 different skill lvls on different frames. Its basically this oberon could do the same as rhino but the player needs way higher skill. If u flip that around and the rhino has way higher skill then imagine how much of a disadvantage oberon would be at. The only frame imo who needs serious buffing other than oberon is ember. Anyway i think that oberon's skills need more defensive capabilities and team support as he is a paladin. Im not sure wether healing is a good way to go on his skills seeing as trinities healing is nearly untoppable in anyway. Maybe oberon could have an ability that could give teammate's shields armor equal to the highest armor person on the squad? Then have another ability which in an area increases armor and has a slow heal? Then he can have a buff to melee which increases proc chance or makes all of his melee finisher or just goes through armor. These skills sound like a paladin to me as i think oberon should be focused more on buffing allies with defense and boosting melee.

[DirkDeadeye]

Dude whats your point? I have probably been playing this game before and longer than you. I am no Noob and know what T4 Survival is. Stop talking about it like it is so epic. "Don't forget that the only T4 we really talk about is the Survival T4." Dude its easy. Now go blow something up!

ORPHANMAKER

Member Since 10 Jun 2014

Stop lying.

He needs a buff

A lot of frames do.

And despite the hate I looked outside the sun is still shining

[SteelSoldier]

Thank you! I couldn't express it better. If you want a role-healer get trinity. Oberon heals are for support.

 

But you got to keep in mind 75 energy for 200 Heal over time is terrible, plus its a very slow skill, so while you are doing the supporting job you will msot likely die in the process.

 

I do a better supporting job with non support characters, at least they can take punishment.

[Tatersail]

As a starter frame...  A players first frame, I agree he is pretty decent.  But the moment you move onto game-play Your sentinel can't solo, he starts to fail.

and as soon as you move on to other frames, or compare him against other frames you see how bad he is.
 

 

 

the issue with Oberon is EVERYONE does what he does Better than he can, and the argument that he is a Hybrid and can heal is pretty poor since he is too weak to even realistically top up frames.

 

Nekros drops far more health orbs, Oberon has to "land the killing bow" with this static damage skill for a 50% chance of an orb.

At a point where guns are doing 50,000-90,000 bursts in under a second, an ultimate, that lifts targets in the air and starts messing about with them, stopping you getting head-shots, has no purpose.  (mag crush has this issue, but mag has other skills)

 

his renew is so weak that simply equipping the aura gives more health and works better, even Equilibrium probably heals for more, and with Hp pads to cheap its easy to drop one and heal up fully.

 

His 1 is Decimated by most other frames 1 button, and the Weak stuff he can drop on the floor, Won't kill things past level 15, unless they are made to stand in it for such a long long time, Saryns Venom does more and is mobile, and a 25 energy 1.

 

 

 

"75 energy for 200 Heal over time is terrible"

this sort of healing may mean something to new players in low level missions at the start of the game but when your in a real mission where you often have Poison aura Elites dotting you for 200-300 a tick its not Terrible... its Pointless.

 

 

 

 

 

imo

 

Smite

The "Target emits 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 bouncing projectiles"  part of smite needs to heal friendly players for 150 if they get hit by one or dot targets for 1500 damage

 

Hallowed Ground

 "Deals 25 / 50 / 75 / 100  Radiation damage every half second for 10 / 15 / 17 / 20 seconds."  - Should also heal players standing it it, or cause some additional effect, such as Enemies stood in this Do 50% damage, and/or move 50% slower and/or take 50% more damage.

 

Renewal

 In addition to the healing should apply some additional effect, such as;

5% damage reflection for 10 seconds

or 100 energy over 10 seconds

or 200 shields over 10 seconds

or Runspeed

or Ammo regen

or ANYTHING to not make this skill outclassed by Regen Aura, Equilibrium, Nekros, Searching tins for health orbs.

 

 

 

His Ultimate is pretty run of the mill, Aoe damage, its only real outstanding feature is being one of the lowest range Ultimate's and if your on content low enough to kill something with 1250 damage you get a 50% chance of an orb.

a 2-3m Range bump would be nice, 100% orb chance?    Power Str effects Orb drop chance?   Duration increases number of Orbs dropped?

Edited August 21, 2014 by Tatersail

[SteelSoldier]

  Honestly, if they want to go for balance, why dont they just give oberon a mix of utility and damage abilities, if a player wants to specialize Oberon, he can, but if he wants to balanced, he can also do that.

[fatpig84]

Smite

Switch to blast damage.

100% chance to proc.

A knockdown spammable 1.

Mini projectiles that fly out deal blast damage and have a 50% chance to Knock down on impact,

 

 

Hallowed Ground

Slows down enemies by 10/20/30/40%

Gives team mates innate health regeneration for 1/2/3/4 seconds.

Both values affected by power strength.

 

 

Renewal

Instantly heals 10%/20%/30%/40% of max hp on cast.

Auto regens at 10/20/30/40 hp per second.

Healing does NOT stop when HP is maxed (giving the auto revive ability).

 

 

Reckoning

Suspends all enemies for 5 seconds in the air before slamming them down.

Slammed enemies have a 15%/30%/45%/60% chance to drop health orbs (does not require death).

 

Done thanks.

Edited August 24, 2014 by fatpig84

[(PSN)friedricetheman]

I recently forma'd Oberon 3 times and while I was levelling him, I was constantly getting ridicule by the other players in the lobby.

It was like 95% of the players out there have some beef with Oberon.

And I could understand why since bad Oberon players are a plenty and the good ones just spam '4' constantly which makes the other players miss their shots.

After placing 3 formae into Oberon, he is still pretty much mid tier material unless you take a very good multi forma gun into the run with you.

Oberon cannot rely on his powers alone and he is even more gun dependant than Mirage, without her damage scaling capabilities.

I do hope that an Oberon rework is in the pipeline.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

What more do you need?

For him to be good.

[Archwizard]

And I could understand why since bad Oberon players are a plenty and the good ones just spam '4' constantly which makes the other players miss their shots.

 

Not just that you miss shots - spamming 4 isn't the mark of a good player, as literally anyone with one finger can do it. All but three frames can do it, even; spamming 4 was a huge issue with Nova's release, but suddenly Oberon comes out and people are fine with it because... it puts him up to par? 

Oberon has no room for skillful play, and no reason to use any of his other skills because of the flat values and lack of reliable effects.

[Arunafeltz]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297426-coming-oberon-changes/

 

 

imo, a little higher armour would be nice to make Rage + Renewal a really great combo. As for Hallowed Ground, it'd be needing a range increase if they want people to actually stand inside it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Arunafeltz