Limbo, Development And Feedback

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

Here's another idea guys let the Rift have its own debuffs for the enemies and buffs for our allies. For example when you banish a enemy to the Rift they should receive a debuff in speed, accuracy, and damage. On the other hand when we send a teammate to the Rift they receive not only energy regen but also increased health and shields. Any thoughts or comments?   

[GreyEnneract]

That's easy: they can't.

 

If you're going to exist as a separate entity within the Rift, then you shouldn't be able to interact with anything not inside of the Rift. You can carry data masses with you if you rifted in with it in your hand, but you can't interact with anything otherwise.

You can walk on the ground.

[BaronGeist]

I feel like a lot of the suggestions in this thread are by people who haven't extensively played Limbo.

Being able to banish multiple enemies is critical. Rift Walk is his survival tool, and without it he'd be steamrolled immediately. And since you can't attack enemies outside of the Rift, Banishing them is your best solution aside from Cataclysm. Unfortunately with how Cataclysm works, not being able to cast it again without waiting for the time to run out is a pain. Letting us prematurely detonate it or just cancel it out-right are options I'd be fine with.

Adjustments I feel should be made:

Banish should be multi-target. There's multiple ways to do it that would be suitable. If you have to increase the cast speed for balancing purposes, I'd be okay with that. But being able to cast it while moving is nice and keeps momentum going.

Rift Walk is pretty okay how it is. I'd like to see it have a faster cast. I find myself using it in clutch situations if I'm not already in it, and the cast time is the difference between going in with just my shield gone or with half my health gone. Although, attacking enemies to bring them into the Rift would be nice. So if you decide to combine Banish and Rift Walk, that would be the preferred solution.

Rift Surge should either be made a passive/debuff in the Rift, or just given more utility with a lowered damage multiplier. If made into a passive you could lower the damage back to x1.5 and either give Rift Surge utility in being able to attack through planes, or some kind of CC ability like others have suggested.

Cataclysm is fine, just needs some QoL. Let us detonate it or just out-right cancel it. Right now the explosion it has is kind of useless, but being able to detonate it ourselves would give it some damage use while still incentivizing us to keep it open for utility/CC purposes. Adding a slow or blind to it would be nice, and I do agree with enemies not being able to leave it; but for different reasons. It's kind of annoying to be fighting an enemy in the bubble and they JUST cross the line going out before you kill them.

Some of these suggestions could be combined. Overall Limbo is okay how he is, just needs some minor tweaks; where-as so many people are wanting to change him drastically. But DE is smart enough not to take some of these horrible suggestions.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

@biceryen

 

Many of the players making suggestions have a lot of experience with this game.  To disqualify their opinion just because they have not found confirmed the flaws themselves is pointless.  A coach is not a player, yet they make improvements based on what they see.  Anyway, it does not take playing Limbo to realize that forcibly Banishing another player for a set amount of time is a bad idea, yet DE allowed this mechanic to be released.  As for the rest, they are all opinions based on an understanding of the game.  Some players have well over 1,000 hours played and understand things just from looking at them while others will not.

 

Again, to disqualify their opinion especially when they provide evidence to support it would be a huge mistake.  Besides, without knowing a players' background who are you to say their advice is invalid?  The point is that all ideas are good as they allow for concepts to be considered and improved over time so why qualify them based on some arbitrary condition to which you think you qualify?

Edited October 30, 2014 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[MECHANICAL_GURU]

@biceryen

@Seyenas

 

Many of the players making suggestions have a lot of experience with this game.  To disqualify their opinion just because they have not found confirmed the flaws themselves is pointless.  A coach is not a player, yet they make improvements based on what they see.  Anyway, it does not take playing Limbo to realize that forcibly Banishing another player for a set amount of time is a bad idea, yet DE allowed this mechanic to be released.  As for the rest, they are all opinions based on an understanding of the game.  Some players have well over 1,000 hours played and understand things just from looking at them while others will not.

 

Again, to disqualify their opinion especially when they provide evidence to support it would be a huge mistake.  Besides, without knowing a players' background who are you to say their advice is invalid?  The point is that all ideas are good as they allow for concepts to be considered and improved over time so why qualify them based on some arbitrary condition to which you think you qualify?

 

^ This

Edited October 30, 2014 by MECHANICAL_GURU

[BaronGeist]

@biceryen

 

Many of the players making suggestions have a lot of experience with this game.  To disqualify their opinion just because they have not found confirmed the flaws themselves is pointless.  A coach is not a player, yet they make improvements based on what they see.  Anyway, it does not take playing Limbo to realize that forcibly Banishing another player for a set amount of time is a bad idea, yet DE allowed this mechanic to be released.  As for the rest, they are all opinions based on an understanding of the game.  Some players have well over 1,000 hours played and understand things just from looking at them while others will not.

 

Again, to disqualify their opinion especially when they provide evidence to support it would be a huge mistake.  Besides, without knowing a players' background who are you to say their advice is invalid?  The point is that all ideas are good as they allow for concepts to be considered and improved over time so why qualify them based on some arbitrary condition to which you think you qualify?

I didn't really intend to disqualify someone's opinion, so I apologize if that's how it seemed. Limbo's powers are just different from the norm, and I feel like that should remain. I like that he's unique. But that doesn't mean some people aren't making drastic changes that are not really necessary.

And I kind of felt like allowing players to take themselves out of the Rift was an implied change that needs to happen. That goes without question. Too many people trolling are giving my favorite frame a bad name. I've not been doing PUGs as Limbo for that reason.

That said, I have my fair share of hours into the game. Not upwards of a 1,000, but I also haven't been playing since launch.

[willedmats]

Might this work?

 

Banish: creates an access point to the rift in an aoe dragging enemies in on cast. after initial cast a portal will remain in place for x duration which only allies can go through just by walking into it.

 

Rift Walk: Sends just you to the rift. No change needed other than possible balancing against banish as it would now have a similar effect. A work around may be that rift walk creates portals and banish just pulls in enemies.

 

Rift surge: SO MUCH OVERHALL. An easy way would be to apply current rift surge's buffs when in rift anyway but changes so you recieve extra damage dealing and resistance plus the normal effects on of   speed and energy regen that regularly apply WHENEVER ANY LIMBO IS IN THE RIFT. Rift surge can then share thes buffs with allies and deal x damage to all enemies in the rift plain.

 

Cataclysm: All of the above considered, oher than some damage rate changes maybe, cataclysm is perfectly fine. Also possibly make it energy dot so it can be detonated on enemies whenever.

 

Other thoughts: Definately change how pick ups work when in void. Allies can come and go through portals as they wish and will not be pulled in by casting banish

 

 

All of the above could justify recasting and ability costs plust give some more "perks of the job"

Edited October 31, 2014 by willedmats

[InfestedDealer]

Been playing for two years now please stop makeing. Abilities that soly buff other abilities please you ruined ember my first wawarframe. now limbo a frame with amazing play style has a third ability i dont use ever warframe is too fast paced for me to stand still for six seconds. Atleast make it a permanent toggle on or off.

[Ishteen]

I for one find the ability to go in and out of rift walk to be one of his most interesting features.  I hope the animation for going into rift walk is greatly reduced though and this becomes more of a fluid transition.

 

Seconded. I'm actually surprised this wasn't the case already - Rift Walk shouldn't have any casting animation at all, he should just shift in and out with a press of a key. I imagine it might make Banish a (little) easier to utilize, since you won't have to wait for Rift Walk to activate before hitting 1 all day long.

[(PSN)XDarkShadowMoonX]

when will be the update for ps4 players for archwing

[Tatersail]

With such an unprecedented degree of crowd control on an individual and area-of-effect level

 

 

Really?

Crowd control?

Limbo can't immobilize rooms of enemies or pull them all into a helpless bundle like vauban

Limbo can't disarm giant rooms, making them helpless melee, like loki

Limbo can't mind control, Stun, snare entire rooms, drop decoys???

The only control I see is the single knockdown

 

in a 1v1 fight vs a tough opponent, I would rather be on almost any other frame, I can "run away into the void" to avoid damage (so can Ash, Loki, and Valkyr with better effects) but I can't kill a touch opponent because I have no "Crowd control"

 

Banishing a target into the rift/void for a 1v1 fight means, you have to fight something, with very low shields, health and armor, and your only control skill it to make the target Immune to your damage.

 

Rift walk casting animation means you often die before you can escape, limbo 2 needs to be instant.

Loot is a massive issue, the 2 energy per second does not make up for Kubrows dropping 75 energy every 10-15 seconds, and the huge amount of energy dropped by kills.

Another huge issue is, Ammo pickups, Mods, and Resources, Limbo is unable to use guns that require ammo pickups.

 

The only real reason for putting things in the void is the bonus damage, and the mechanics are just not worth it, the problems, issues, angry players, no loot, all for a small damage buff, that other frames can do with a single skill.

 

Perhaps make limbo's 3 deal 1000 damage to anything in the void, or combine this skill with limbos 4, and make a new skill.

 

There needs to be some benefit to putting things into the void, Players should be happy and want to be to be banished, not annoyed and frustrated.

Banished players need to be able to Escape the void on there own

Edited October 31, 2014 by Tatersail

[Gizogin]

in a 1v1 fight vs a tough opponent, I would rather be on almost any other frame, I can "run away into the void" to avoid damage (so can Ash, Loki, and Valkyr with better effects) but I can't kill a touch opponent because I have no "Crowd control"

 

Banishing a target into the rift/void for a 1v1 fight means, you have to fight something, with very low shields, health and armor, and your only control skill it to make the target Immune to your damage.

 

Rift walk casting animation means you often die before you can escape, limbo 2 needs to be instant.

 

-snip-

 

The only real reason for putting things in the void is the bonus damage, and the mechanics are just not worth it, the problems, issues, angry players, no loot, all for a small damage buff, that other frames can do with a single skill.

 

-snip-

 

There needs to be some benefit to putting things into the void, Players should be happy and want to be to be banished, not annoyed and frustrated.

Banished players need to be able to Escape the void on there own

 

I have to disagree.  There's no frame I would rather use for single-target, 1v1 fighting than Limbo. 

 

Rift Walk lets you walk into a huge crowd without fear.  Banish pulls a single, tough enemy out of this crowd and cuts it off from its allies, while knocking it down to give you a chance to wipe it out while it's helpless.  Didn't manage to kill it before it got back up?  Just Banish it back to reality and pull it back in as soon as you're prepared to fight it again.  Rift Surge, while lackluster, grants a hefty damage bonus against this single enemy.

 

I can agree that I would like Rift Walk to cast instantly, but I definitely don't think it's necessary.  As it is now, it discourages you from using it as an escape chute, instead forcing you to use it more to set up your control.  It's also a matter of balance; without a delay, there would be no consequences for popping into the Rift, so Limbo would be all but invulnerable at all ranges.

 

I cut it out of my quote above, but you said that Limbo cannot use guns that require ammo pickups.  As I've said, however, Limbo excels in 1v1; it's hard to conceive of a situation where he would want or need to use a high-volume, low-efficiency firearm.  The only real circumstance is when you use Cataclysm, to take out a group.  In this case, I can definitely agree that players should be able to pick up ammo and loot within Cataclysm.  After all, aren't those items in the Rift, too?

 

On your last point, I think many people will agree that other players need a way to leave the Rift without Limbo's help.  Unless the overall Rift mechanics change to allow Banished players to get more bonuses, most players in the Rift are going to resent the Limbo that put them there.  Until then, the best way around this is to coordinate with your teammates so that everyone understands when and why they're going into the Rift.

 

 

 

Ultimately, Limbo is not a damage Frame; he is all about redirection, misdirection, and manipulation.  You can't play him like other Frames because he isn't like other Frames.

[Evanescent]

I'd like to leave a link where I'e compiled my finalised suggestions here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/336858-limbo-banish-solution/

 

 

to make it easy for everyone to read and to reduce cluttering in thread.

 

Thank you all for reading. Suggestions are welcome.

[wtrmlnjuc]

His ult needs to be toggleable. It should time out eventually, but you should be able to prematurely detonate it if you want to.

[LoneTonberry]

His ult needs to be toggleable. It should time out eventually, but you should be able to prematurely detonate it if you want to.

 

I'd like to see this, possibly have the rift bubble explode on recast and do a burst of damage or even just snap closed and do the damage that it would do on an enemy passing into it to all enemies within it. I'd also like to see its damage get buffed a bit too because from what I've seen it's not terribly strong.

 

I'd also like to see some kind of bonus to allies in the rift and debuffs to enemies and some tweaking to his 3. It doesn't really feel like it's doing anything when I use it. Also, the idea of Banish casting like Fireball I sort of like. It would make it harder to pull out a single enemy from a crowd but it would make eliminating a crowd a bit easier. 

 

Maybe something interacting with Rift Surge or Rift Walk might work. Something like having it cast one way if the ability that modifies it is on, and another when it's off. Perhaps have it on Rift Surge and have it empower his other abilities in addition to the damage buff? 

 

Something like casting Rift Surge empowers Limbo's other abilities for the duration, So Banish in addition to doing more damage would also become an AoE like Fireball or Pull causing multiple enemies to be ripped into the rift. Rift Walk could maybe knock down enemies near Limbo on cast. Cataclysm could pull nearby enemies into the bubble and knock them down. If something like this happened Rift Surge would need to be a toggle as well so you don't get locked out of the normal cast mode if you need it for the duration and if Cataclysm became a toggle it would make for an interesting thing of having all of Limbo's abilities work on a toggle.

[Bernkastal]

Limbo, with the recent changes, has a much better kit than he used to, though I'd like too see maybe one or two quality of life changes still.

A) pickups in the rift. Enable them please, or at least in Cataclysm.

B) toggle for an early detonation of cataclysm.

C) rift surge is in a strange place. At dirt I didn't like it at all, but 2 forma in, I'm relying more and more on this skill to be an unsung but required skill

D) allow for more generous targeting of enemies with banish and you don't directly hit them

E) do not , do not, do NOT sync banish and rift walk, it would be really awkward and the current System works fantastically.

[Llyssa]

Really?

Crowd control?

Mmm. So, my thought on this is you're doing it wrong.

 

Personally, had a survival where things went bad, LS ran out, and we had to book across the entire map, ASAP.

 

Rather than running in terror as we drain away, dodging and battling with almost no health....

 

We had the limbo banish everyone, and we sauntered to extraction without incident.

 

I can't really see any "crowd control" skill trumping "protecting the entire team from damage for the entire length of a level".

[GreyEnneract]

Personally, had a survival where things went bad, LS ran out, and we had to book across the entire map, ASAP.

 

Rather than running in terror as we drain away, dodging and battling with almost no health....

 

We had the limbo banish everyone, and we sauntered to extraction without incident.

 

I can't really see any "crowd control" skill trumping "protecting the entire team from damage for the entire length of a level".

In that very specific instance only though.

What I get from this is that Limbo is good at running away.

[MECHANICAL_GURU]

Even so, enemies like Raptor can still clobber you while you're in the Rift, which is kinda annoying since you're supposed to be untouchable.

[painterman]

Here are my 2 cents:

 

1-Banish: nice, no interruption casting animation. The only change i would made is the range, 35 meters for a single target nock-down its seems like not enough, i would raise to 50.

 

2-Rift walk: the animation is cool but inecesary, limbo shoud be able to enter/exit the rif at will, not do trick with his hat to enter and NOTHING to exit.

 

3-Rift surge: a bit ankward on the mechanic side, casting an extra expell to get extra dmg ONLY in the rift and too much cost for energy.On the good side, nice animation and casting speed and good dmg amp.

 

4 Cataclysm: The arena of death and the new snowglove, very nice to defend a pod or create a safe spot from enemy fire.

 

Sorry for my bad english :D

[FoxFX]

I feel that an item that is in the Rift Zone by Cataclysm or items carried while affected by Banish/Rift Walk/Rift Zone should be considered to be brought in the Rift Zone and still be able to picked up.

 

Another thing is Rift Surge's affect should be more than just allowing more damage to enemies in the Rift Zone.

 

So here are my suggestions:

 

Suggestion for Rift Zone and Items

Since carried equip weapons can be brought into the Rift Zone with a Warframe so should a carried datamass. Either allow items to be carried/picked up if affected in Cataclysm and allow datamasses already carried by a Warframe to be part of the Rift Zone when affected by Banish.

 

Or allow items to be affected by Banish like you can cast Banish on Mods/ammo/datamasses. Due to the current rules of the Rift Zone, any Warframe in the Rift Zone recovers Energy while in the Rift Zone so give Limbo a reason to use Banish a bit more often by also allowing him to target and send items to the Rift via Banish.

 

Suggestion on Rift Surge

 

From the way I see it, Limbo is a part of the Rift Zone and the Real Zone. So change Rift Surge to a low duration buff that allows Limbo to damage enemies from the opposite zone with all of his attacks but with a cost of reduction of the damage he would do to the enemies in the opposite zone. Power Strength Mods would lessen the damage reduction.

[GreyEnneract]

It would be a nice addition to make Banish unaffected by Power Range, and keep it at its base range (like Volt's shock).

This way, you could choose to have your Cataclysm be small or large without any drawbacks.

[Archwizard]

An interesting variation on Cataclysm would be to allow it to simply swap what side of the rift you're on - if you're Banished before you enter the Cataclysm bubble, you'll be back in the material world upon entry to the bubble.

 

Another thing, what if there was some way for Limbo to compel enemies to walk into or out of the bubble? Or even just to stay in it as it shrinks? It would allow him to properly weaponize its damage, or strategically make the field a protected area for allies... 

 

Finally, why doesn't Rift Walk/Banish allow us to remove collision with enemies on the opposite side of the rift?

Edited November 2, 2014 by Archwizard

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

An interesting variation on Cataclysm would be to allow it to simply swap what side of the rift you're on - if you're Banished before you enter the Cataclysm bubble, you'll be back in the material world upon entry to the bubble.

 

Another thing, what if there was some way for Limbo to compel enemies to walk into or out of the bubble? Or even just to stay in it as it shrinks? It would allow him to properly weaponize its damage, or strategically make the field a protected area for allies... 

 

Finally, why doesn't Rift Walk/Banish allow us to remove collision with enemies on the opposite side of the rift?

That would be cool to see but instead if a enemy is caught in or enters cataclysm they should be hit with a radiation proc for control reason. Hell everytime he casts it. It should have random negative status effects for the enemies.

[vWOLFv]

I offer idea, to make Limbaugh as he is the magician flying... it would be unique and it is beautiful))) It wouldn't go, and flew.)))