Scammers, For Lack Of A Better Word

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Currently, no one is doing anything 'wrong'. It may be slimy, sure, but it isn't 'wrong'.
You can't fault them when they do something that isn't enforced against.

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Edit: This is my express opinion. This is not something DE or anyone else I know of follows. Do not take this post as "Key-shares should be allowed, and you are not allowed to be against that"; I does not mean this.

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On the other hand, it'd be awesome if DE made a specific system that made key-sharing a more definite system.

[kuri99]

On paper a reputation system would make a lot of sense however in practice they are always abused by extremists and trolls. Dont have the exact right build on your frame, you get marked down. Bring a frame someone hates or thinks isnt any good (despite how well you perform), you get marked down. Part of a clan like ice or lords of the east (generally hated clans), oh thats a mark down for sure. Are you a copter rusher that leaves the team behind while you go room to room pressing 4 to destroy everything? You better believe youll be marked down for that (rightfully so IMO). Get disconnected during a keyshare, yep thats a mark on your record.

 

I can probably go on for a few pages of why people will put a black mark on essentially a permanent record for stupid reasons. Its the nature of these systems and if MMOs have taught us anything about these systems its that they are always abused

[Kuestenjung]

No reputation system, it will be greatly abused.

 

Put scammers on your ignore list and go on.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Kuestenjung

[Dead_Rabbits]

This happened in a key share group I was in last night. The host used his key, then one guy just said thanks and left. Then the host got someone else to join, I used my key. Then the guy he just invited said "sorry my key still has 40min left" then he left.

Finally, this guy that was in the group the entire time who was even bashing the key scammers left without using his key.

Wound up doing only 2 runs.

people suck.

[Cubewano]

Why? you got what you wanted you could had done the key solo. :/ He gained but you lost nothing idk why your mad at all. Its basically like 4 people bring a cake, you each eat your own cake but the 4th person takes his cake home. You get mad because he didn't eat his cake with you.

its more like a group of people agree to bring their own cakes to a cake share party, but then one person eats everyone else's cake but runs before anyone can taste theirs. 

[noteom]

Do a key check. If said person does not have a key or refuses to show his key, ask him to leave. If they don't leave, disconnect from the session and re invite the others who have a key.

This Is Still Getting Posted On Page 3?

Really?

[Vanetas]

what happened to hosting out of goodwill? i noticed that most people that play arent strong enough to solo some missions like rotten salad , a few weeks ago a group was hosting rotten salad without keyshare whatsoever, i didnt have a key back then but they said its ok as long as i help beat salad. got mesa in 3 runs.

after that i decided to make keys if the opportunity arises to at least help out the ones that are still looking for mesa.

just pay it forward. tbh i havent found any direct "@ssholes" in recruiting. so far ive only met nice friendly, people. contrary to the trade chat where everyone tries to lowball when you sell or highball when you buy to almost twice the price. if i hadnt asked a friend about the general prices i would be scammed so many times out of my prime parts because i still dont know how the market in this game is.

i had one guy kept pestering me about how loki p parts are now going down in prices and said he is giving me a sweet deal by offering 20p for my loki p. ignored right then and there

[Sleepwalkaz]

Why? you got what you wanted you could had done the key solo. :/ He gained but you lost nothing idk why your mad at all. Its basically like 4 people bring a cake, you each eat your own cake but the 4th person takes his cake home. You get mad because he didn't eat his cake with you.

 

bad comparison. op stated the scammer was able to do three runs with them and left on the fourth. so basically this waste of air ate a piece of everyones cake, got full and left without sharing his own.

[MagPrime]

Key matchmaking needs to happen.

 

Everyone contributes keys, keys stay until the critieria fulfilled or 3 days expire.

Voting: if 3 players vote that keyshare was completed the unused keys return.

 

Not perfect but would solve many problems.

I like this idea.

[Dunkelheit]

Currently, no one is doing anything 'wrong'. It may be slimy, sure, but it isn't 'wrong'.

You can't fault them when they do something that isn't enforced against.

On the other hand, it'd be awesome if DE made a specific system that made key-sharing a more definite system.

 

Sorry if I cannot find the correct words, I am no native speaker. But I have to post something here on this thread.

 

I cannot believe that a community moderator is making such a posting.

 

Since when is lieing to others and thus getting an advantage they neither deserve nor earned not "wrong"? In what kind of society do we live? There are a lot of moral aspects that should be automatically true, even if they are not enforced in any way. And lieing and getting a piece of cake that you do not deserve is not "ok".

What happens if stealing is no longer enforced against, does it become "good" then?

 

DE decided to make getting some keys a pain (Vay Hek e.g.), a real pain and people developed a method to get at least something more out of it. I see that it is hard for DE to make a system that enforces the keyshare, but I don't see why this is not a bannable offense if reported and proven.

 

I think the internet is one of the greatest developments in the history of mankind, but the anonymity that comes with it is not good for cowards, liars and scumbags. Because when I look at this thread their view of the world seems to be rewarded even.

 

Yes, lieing and taking advantage of others cannot be enforced in this game.

Yes, there is not much we all can do.

Yes, a negative report system can be abused.

 

But can't we at least all agree that doing such a thing is at the very least wrong?

 

And there are a lot of things that can be done:

 

1. Ban if proven guilty

2. positive report system

 

If it would happen to me, I would put the sad person on ignore and move on, not much else you can do. But it is an ugly experience and should be treated as such.

 

One of the worst things in the world is the invention of money. Because money means power. And with such power you can get away with things. If you are a customer and give little money, they don't want to lose you. So obviously you get away with taking advantage and lieing. If you have a lot of money, you can get away with stealing and even worse crimes.

 

I can tell you that if DE would be losing money through anyone taking advantage or lieing, it would not even take a week to come up with a system to prevent this, probably not even a day.

 

So don't come here and say it is not "wrong", because it is not enforced against.

 

Thank you.

[DJ_Redwire]

-snip-

 

Amen brotha +1

[FishNeedles]

This is why I was glad to finally be done with that crap.  God I hate key sharing.

[(PSN)timbob90210]

The guy was a jerk, we can all agree on that. 

 

But people are getting so caught up on the idea of fairness and what someone deserves. They did NOT lose anything. If they wouldn't have invited the guy and ran their keys, guess what, they would have still ran three times.

 

If I want to run a void defense mission:

 

*If I invite three people to play using my key, we all gain something and I lose a key.

 

*If I decide to do it solo, only I gain something and I lose a key.

 

In both scenarios I gain something, and I lose a key; nothing has changed.

 

Life isn't fair.

[Husla]

But people are getting so caught up on the idea of fairness and what someone deserves. They did NOT lose anything. If they wouldn't have invited the guy and ran their keys, guess what, they would have still ran three times.

 

If I want to run a void defense mission:

 

*If I invite three people to play using my key, we all gain something and I lose a key.

 

*If I decide to do it solo, only I gain something and I lose a key.

 

In both scenarios I gain something, and I lose a key; nothing has changed.

 

Life isn't fair.

 

exactly.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Husla

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

One of the worst things in the world is the invention of money. BeSo don't come here and say it is not "wrong", because it is not enforced against.

Thank you.

I feel I should mention something and suggest my words aren't as what they may seem to you.

"Wrong" in quotations is saying that I mean something similar to the word but not quite, and I don't have a word to replace it.

When I say wrong, in the context of that post, I'm saying it is something enforcably wrong.

It could very well be wrong, but not wrong, do you get what I am saying?

Say the proven and approved tactic isn't used by someone, but they do something else and get the job done, were they wrong? No, unorthodox, but not wrong. I think orthodox was the word I was looking for.

Anyway, that is semantics mixed into philosophical debate, but I felt you misunderstood my wording and needed to clarify.

 

Edit: To be clear, I am not attacking your opinion at all, all I had done was try to explain what I had written as it seemed to me like you misunderstood, and that my wording was in the wrong, that is all.

[Chaosdreamer]

What I do to make sure any kind of keyshare to go right : I'll also say how it happen :

 

-Let's say I'm farming T4 sabotage key 

 

1/ I'm Host , my bad connection you stay or leave , my rules call me dictator from there

 

2/Ask if everybody want to do KeyShare , if YES , you set the order

 

3/Set the order in the following way : Mastery Rank - strange name first

 

4/Don't forget if you don't trust them that everything is screenshoted and if anyone try to get away support will go catch them

 

Usually I don't need to do 4 Th part , I just let the lowest rank use first , and since I usually end last (Max MR 18 atm) lowering the risk

 

That when we farm the key first ...

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

When doing with pugs in recruit channel : 

 

1/You must do a check when the squad is full 

 

2/Once everybody checked , make an order

 

3/Order MUST BE , the most suspious guys (usually lowest rank) to highter

 

4/If you want , You can say , I've screenshot of all of you agreeing the keyshare if cheating you will be reported

 

That my tips , you can use them or ignore , sorry for the "low rank" it's not that I don't trust people , but it happen more with lower rank

[Chhkt]

I am wrong.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Xcedis

[MagPrime]

In the meantime, the best thing that we as a community could do is start a running list on the forums of those who are highly suspected of intentionally dipping out of keyshares. Then all people would have to do is check the list when they are planning to run a keyshare. Since this would be based solely on posts it may be slightly inaccurate, but this seems to be a problem that requires some serious moves.

Uh, no.  That's Name and Shame, which is against forum rules.

 

Beyond not doing public keyshares, there really isn't anything the players can do against key scamming right now.  You could put the player on ignore and maintain your own private blacklist I suppose. : /

Edited January 3, 2015 by Noamuth

[xethier]

Uh, no.  That's Name and Shame, which is against forum rules.

 

Beyond not doing public keyshares, there really isn't anything the players can do against key scamming right now.  You could put the player on ignore and maintain your own private blacklist I suppose. : /

 

unfortunately putting them on ignore won't keep you from running into them in random missions (unless DE has finally changed that)

it WILL however, keep you from running into them in missions you host, and if paying attention you'll see their names grayed out in the mission if someone else invites them. you'll also keep from having to deal with them in trade.

 

this is the best solution you have available to you.

[haolee510]

The guy was a jerk, we can all agree on that. 

 

But people are getting so caught up on the idea of fairness and what someone deserves. They did NOT lose anything. If they wouldn't have invited the guy and ran their keys, guess what, they would have still ran three times.

 

If I want to run a void defense mission:

 

*If I invite three people to play using my key, we all gain something and I lose a key.

 

*If I decide to do it solo, only I gain something and I lose a key.

 

In both scenarios I gain something, and I lose a key; nothing has changed.

 

Life isn't fair.

Basically this is what I was trying to say.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Just send him rude messages, all three of you, all day long, all week long.

 

Or you can just take this as a lesson learned in trusting complete strangers and letting him get the benefit of using all of your keys first when he (being all quiet and not interacting) is the MOST likely to hit and run after youve used your keys.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Just send him rude messages, all three of you, all day long, all week long.

Nah, don't do that, it can get you in trouble.

[armedpoop]

To be fair, I've been in key sharing parties before when the person in question does in fact have a key, but they intentionally leave before using it. That allows them to get into other key sharing groups and repeat the process. There is no way to safeguard this on our end. DE has to make a change somewhere.

or you can stop trying to "key share" with pugs. That in and of itself is a bad idea. NEVER do anything that requires you to rely on a pug. Thats common knowledge. (Or so I thought)

 

Join an active clan and stop playing with pugs.

[---Merchant---]

I was in keyshare 3minutes ago where host refused to use his key first
and then i left +dced

if you are going to scam me at least do not host keyshare yourself ...
starting mission when you host is one of things that are part of every run 
chat log
host:show keys
anon1:my
me:my
anon3:my
host:now me
host:wait for me i afk
host:afk
host:afk doing stuff in room
host:back
anon:good for you
host:bac
host:back
host:who is going to start
anon:you [what was good idea considering how often he goes afk]
host:no why me no i will not
anon2: -_- ok i start

session not found error 
anon2 left[probably crash]
invite new anon 2

host:who will start
anon 2:you
host:no i will not

then i left party and threw him to my ignore

Edited January 3, 2015 by MidoriFuse

[Hyenasaurus]

I seriously don't understand this sort of mentality of the community. 'There's nothing that can be done', yet they resist to even something as harmless as a positive rep system. And then it's the fault of the other players that couldn't accurately tell who's a scammer rather than of the scammer themselves. How does that make sense?

It's not much? Maybe, but it's annoying. You -do- lose something as well, namely, your time. Because if you got everything you needed, good for you! But if not then you're gonna need to grind for a key again, or leech another group for the part yourself. Saying 'well you shoulda played with clanmates/guessed and made them use their keys first' does not curb the behavior, and not just because of the lack of consequences but because the community itself doesn't seem to care.

/rant over, sorry.