Coptering Must Either Go Or Be Toned Down

[Vadrigos]

To proceed what I'm about to drone on about, I don't copter too often but I do enjoy how it works and know how to control it.  Beyond that I also utilize "wall-flinging" and know how to control it as well, and I also utilize air melees to further influence my mobility throughout the game's tiles.

 

Anyways I'm not outright against the removal of coptering.  However it's very true that the existence of it as a mechanic (not a bug anymore) are pretty ingrained into the game as it stands.  Of course the addition of directional air melee has subverted coptering to a modest degree as it too provides the player with a sudden burst of mobility.  However directional melee attacks look notably less silly and also offer additional movement options as they can be done in many more directions.

 

There is one key thing to note however;  A lot of players clearly enjoy having very high burst mobility.  It's safe to say that, at this stage in the game's development, removing all of these without providing an apt replacement would be a very bad move.  It would legitimately alter the core pacing of Warframe at its very core.  While coptering's specific existence is debatable, I'd say it's almost not debatable that Warframe is more designed around being on the swifter side compared to what would be "average" for shooting games.

 

At the moment we have next to no real air control outside of initiating a slide and subsequent slide attack while airborne or by utilizing directional melee.  Of course both of these things clearly subvert the existence of the game's normal parkour systems to a notable degree.  One doesn't gain much by doing a standard wallrun but there are clear advantages to using coptering and air melee.  Despite being someone who likes and uses both, even I can see the issues they present when looking at furthering the development of a parkour system.

 

So I'll end all this in a neat little package.  If, when parkour 2.0 becomes a thing, we have a wealth of new mobility options which also allow for some forms of burst mobility then by all means remove coptering.  However I'd very much hate to see coptering's removal solely because some folks "don't like it".  Not everyone will like everything in any given game, that's just all there is to i

 

 

This, all of my THIS ^

[sappinmahsentry]

Speaking of fighter jets, I think that's what propulsion like that really needs. The main reason why I don't like it is because it looks stupid. Adding something like jet propulsion somewhere on the Tenno's body and having it activate when they do a specific action (coptering) would visually make sense. One game that did this very well was Vanquish. The speed in Vanquish is much faster than any coptering that can be done in this game, and in that game it makes visual sense.

 

I think some of us who are against coptering would shut up about it if it made sense visually. To me it just looks like a bug with the game's physics.

*almost literally teleports across a grineer forest by coptering* Never jet teleported in vanquish, no sir.

[Aspari]

*almost literally teleports across a grineer forest by coptering* Never jet teleported in vanquish, no sir.

If you get the maximum benefit from Speed, have a Valkyr attack speed buff, use Dual Zoren's/ Dual Ichor with Fury and Berserker, and are using Loki, I can actually see that happening with just one copter maneuver.

[Letter13]

Keep the conversation civil folks.

[Rydian]

~

Yo.

 

V

 

So what's your average FPS?

Have you tried a slower copter weapon like a Nikana to see if that's more controllable for you?

Could you maybe record some of these wall-stuck incidents for us to see?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/363173-how-to-record-and-upload-stream-warframe-for-free/

 

It might be helpful to people if you showed your complaints with coptering, etc.

[Nagisawa]

Nope.  No one seeing the issue.

[Rififi]

[Vadrigos]

 

Even if it means improving other movement options? Right now, everyone copters, or wall-launches or air-melees or slide-jumps...meanwhile, parkour rots away quietly in a corner.

[Rififi]

Coptering is the best thing melee weapon can be used for. Except getting mastery of course xD. It's useless for high level enemies (by "high level" I mean 50+ lvl)

[Fraank]

Coptering is like Rocket Jumping. Not intended from the developers in the first line BUT you can consider it as "emergent gameplay".

 

I hope devs dont read "nerf copter"-topics. I mean, there is no other game with coptering which makes warframe unique inmy opinion.

Edited January 21, 2015 by -ExT-Fraank

[VoidNomade]

Coptering is nothing else than a ground attack move that is raped as a dash and abused and raped as a air dash. Give me a real directional dash, proper sprint and parkour and i won´t miss this crap looking mess of a abuse movement one second.

[Rydian]

~

Uh, hey, again...

|||

V

 

So what's your average FPS?

Have you tried a slower copter weapon like a Nikana to see if that's more controllable for you?

Could you maybe record some of these wall-stuck incidents for us to see?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/363173-how-to-record-and-upload-stream-warframe-for-free/

"It might be helpful to people if you showed your complaints with coptering, etc."

 

You have some complaints about this form of movement, right?  You specifically told me that you have problems getting stuck on walls and lack of control during it.  On the other hand I only experience those in very specific situations (like air directional attacks into a corner) and I have varying experiences based on which weapon I'm using.

 

So I'd like more info, and, if possible, recordings to show your complaints.  Also if you could try multiple weapons, you might find that only some of them fling you quite far.  The Nikana series in particular has a mild copter effect, while heavy weapons and scythes more resemble what I believe the originally-intended spin attack is.

[Repligon]

Nope.  No one seeing the issue.

You != everyone

 

Coptering is like Rocket Jumping. Not intended from the developers in the first line BUT you can consider it as "emergent gameplay".

Maybe, maybe (personally, I think it is not). But it is out of place in warframe. We supposed to use all kinds of parkour to move fast but coptering devalues it completely.

 

Unlike rocket jumping (and skiing) coptering (including coptering 2.0 a.k.a. melee air attack) does not supplement gameplay. Instead it devalues a very large chunk of it.

Differences in warframes speed? Copter!

Sprint? Copter!

Parcour? Copter!

Gap that have to be traversed with wallrun? Copter!

Secret room? Copter!

Stamina? Copter!

Mobility abilities? Copter!

Warframe? Copterframe!

 

Literlly every mean of movement in warframe does it's work worse than coptering.

 

There is an important differece between coptering and rocked jumping.

Rocked jumping is good when used along with other ways of movement.

Coptering is good when used instead of them.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Repligon

[Angus_JTV]

As it is right now I can copter from one point in a map and land perfectly exactly where I planned on the other side. No, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but neither do space ninjas, or power suits that are supercharged with potatoes. This discussion has been had more times than I can count, and sure, there's a few people that want it removed, but the majority of players (And developers: "Melee is for coptering" -[DE]Glen every 30 seconds) have learned to use it and understand that it is a powerful and useful game mechanic. Removal would ruin the game for a lot of players, just so that what, you don't have to learn to use something? or you don't get confused by the questionable logic in a game about space ninjas?

 

This.

Edited January 22, 2015 by -CM-Angus

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Unlike rocket jumping (and skiing) coptering does not supplement gameplay. Instead it devalues a very large chunk of it.

Differences in warframes speed? Copter!

Sprint? Copter!

Parcour? Copter!

Gap that have to be traversed with wallrun? Copter!

Secret room? Copter!

Stamina? Copter!

Mobility abilities? Copter!

Warframe? Copterframe!

Literlly every mean of movement in warframe does it's work worse than coptering.

There is an important differece between coptering and rocked jumping.

Rocked jumping is good when used along with other ways of movement.

Coptering is good when used instead of them.

Well said! Another thing I wanted to add is that Rocket Jumping actually has a downside when you use it - the loss of HP. When using it you have to consider your risks, is it worth losing your HP for the speed boost/reaching the desired location? Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. With Coptering you just mindlessly copter constantly without any disadvantages or losses.

Without scraping the coptering the true parkour 2.0 will never happen, because everyone would still copter mindlessly instead of using new fancy movement techniques. Of course there need to be some kind of dash replacement, but not as ridiculous as coptering.

[Phoenix86]

When sometimes melee gets bugged and i press E but nothing happens (and i cant copter) i feel like someone just cut both my legs.

 

It's an horrible experience.

 

 

Well said! Another thing I wanted to add is that Rocket Jumping actually has a downside when you use it - the loss of HP. When using it you have to consider your risks, is it worth losing your HP for the speed boost/reaching the desired location? Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. With Coptering you just mindlessly copter constantly without any disadvantages or losses.

Without scraping the coptering the true parkour 2.0 will never happen, because everyone would still copter mindlessly instead of using new fancy movement techniques. Of course there need to be some kind of dash replacement, but not as ridiculous as coptering.

 

 

Like the majority of players dont care of melee stance combos and simply random spam E with rifle equipped and many, me included, would love the return of charged attacks

Edited January 22, 2015 by Phoenix86

[LisRestall]

It certainly is an eyesore. I support its removal for no reason other than it's aesthetically displeasing. 

 

Who needs archwing when I can use two axes to soar through the air like a goddam eagle.

^ This.

 

@Topic: I also want it to be removed. Warframe being unique because they have space ninjas being able to travel at 500km/h because of some melee weapon that doesn't even have any rocket booster is not appealing at all.

 

We are not supposed to be like him,

[Phoenix86]

^ This.

 

@Topic: I also want it to be removed. Warframe being unique because they have space ninjas being able to travel at 500km/h because of some melee weapon that doesn't even have any rocket booster is not appealing at all.

 

We are not supposed to be like him,

 

Fragor surely wont let you copter that far

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Like the majority of players dont care of melee stance combos and simply random spam E with rifle equipped and many, me included, would love the return of charged attacks

Well, they are missing on some damage, procs and other features. I personally often use quick melee as well, but it's far less effective than equiping melee and using combos. The only thing I wish is the weapon switch was a little bit quicker, a lot of times it's too long to switch to a melee weapon and it's faster to quick melee somebody (which doesn't actually make sense, since you are using melee weapon anyways) It would also be fun if charged attacks would be brought back, and mapped to holding quick melee button (when you doesn't have melee equiped)

[Fraank]

You != everyone

 

Maybe, maybe (personally, I think it is not). But it is out of place in warframe. We supposed to use all kinds of parkour to move fast but coptering devalues it completely.

 

Unlike rocket jumping (and skiing) coptering does not supplement gameplay. Instead it devalues a very large chunk of it.

Differences in warframes speed? Copter!

Sprint? Copter!

Parcour? Copter!

Gap that have to be traversed with wallrun? Copter!

Secret room? Copter!

Stamina? Copter!

Mobility abilities? Copter!

Warframe? Copterframe!

 

Literlly every mean of movement in warframe does it's work worse than coptering.

 

There is an important differece between coptering and rocked jumping.

Rocked jumping is good when used along with other ways of movement.

Coptering is good when used instead of them.

 

You can only rely on coptering in open maps. Any other place with a lot of corners, walls, cliffs, obstacles make it worse. Sometimes sprint is faster than coptering but that depends on the tileset. And that's the big disadvantage of coptering. It's not "predictable"(you have an influence with the delay between "crouch" and "melee attack" - but that doesnt make it predictable). The only thing you can do is a directional straight-forward move which stops at the next wall. And hitting a wall is not the "goal" except for one case. (the last jump into extraction)

And usually people cant keep up with coptering because they cant even wall run, wall jump, air-dash and dont know any shortcut. The only thing they can is pressing shift and space.

Maybe you should complain about air-dashing. it makes wallrunning and wall jumping useless. because you dont need a wall anymore.

[Repligon]

You can only rely on coptering in open maps. Any other place with a lot of corners, walls, cliffs, obstacles make it worse. Sometimes sprint is faster than coptering but that depends on the tileset. And that's the big disadvantage of coptering.

This is not true. People coptered even when there was no open maps. Coptering is always faster than sprinitng.

 

It's not "predictable".

 Whole thread copter-lovers are trying to refute this statement.

 

Maybe you should complain about air-dashing. it makes wallrunning and wall jumping useless. because you dont need a wall anymore.

It is included in my complaints about coptering. Because essentially it is coptering too.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Repligon

[Tsukinoki]

I have to disagree with removing coptering.

It is quite literally the only thing that allows Frost, Frost Prime or Rhino (without arcane helmet) to be able to keep up with any other frame in the game.  Without coptering then those frames are permanently stuck behind and unable to do much of anything in the missions, outside of defense.

I'm a player who likes to use Frost in missions other than defense or mdef, and even in mdef missions I have to rush to grab the data mass so that I can actually be in the room when the rest of the team puts it in and starts the timer.

If they remove coptering they need to normalize sprint speeds so that the slower frames can actually keep up with the rest of the team and not be forced to lag behind a room or two, which in some missions mean that they don't get any kills as they are forced to trail along behind the team picking up drops as they go and be very bored with the entire thing, even when no one is using coptering in the group this happens way to much.

[es.iiden]

it's a glitch not a feature, there is a difference.

 

Yes I want coptering removed BUT I want it replaced with something that actually works as intended (Parkour 2.0 anyone?)

 

coptering shouldn't be the defining "feature" of the game, and if it is then something is horribly wrong with it and needs to be fixed

if you could explain your methods of improving parkour, im all down. you dont have to copter at all. im sure you can run and slide without using your melee no?

 

if you wanna fix coptering you would have to get rid of slide attacks or level all slide attacks to all have the same speed which i dont agree with. please at least have a reason to not want a system. Saying it ruins your "fun" isnt very convincing. Anyway, you have a fix for not wanting to deal with coptering, its called playing Solo but as it stands its pretty much an adopted method of travel for most Tennos.

[Pham.Nuwen]

I too, despise seeing people wear socks in the summer, it's aesthetically displeasing. We should enforce rules to disallow the wearing of socks in the warmer months forever. Besides they're not a feature, just a replacement for non-hairy legs. Also, they inhibit a truer, better form of movement. In no way should people be given free choice in the matter, even when their decision to wear/not wear socks doesn't effect anybody else they don't want to be around anyways. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Bejaaamin

[Fraank]

 

 

This is not true. People coptered even when there was no open maps. Coptering is always faster than sprinitng.

 

 

ok if you underline the world "always" you must be probably right with your opinion.

 

 Whole thread copter-lovers are trying to refute this statement.

 

you can "predict" the direction but not the distance. the only influence on the distance you have is the delay between "crouch" and "melee-attack". but you still cant say, if you copter 10m. 20m, 30m or hit the wall due to a short lag.

 

Also, I would highly recommend to improve parkour in general instead of nerfing coptering. Why? because no one benefits from nerfed coptering. Even if i dont see any issue with coptering, it would solve the issue for a lot of players i guess.