January 30Th: Community Hot Topics!

[AechDeeArr]

The only thing I did not like about Overtake was that it was restricted to Throwing Melee only, which is not a type of weapon I like using and, as such, do not keep in my inventory. I can easily work around a Conclave cap, which lets me pick how I want to tackle the challenge.

[Shy0]

re overtake alert: good idea to have a theme and a reward related to it, but when i was attempting it, i came across a few situations:

 

- joined a random group - people who had no common sense either rushed, tried to tank nullifiers, or simply didn't know how to play and cause me to fail multiple times.

- joined an organised group - with a good mix of frames, pretty satisfying runs, but had to work hard, which was the intent i guess.

- soloed - frost + some team restores allowed me to just easy-mode the mission.

 

so yeah, execution was a bit bad in that people could easy-mode it while others had to work much harder.

 

re bows: i think there are enough bows for multiple playstyles if you include the attica. also they fulfill their niche well, i.e. good single target damage and punch through for enemies in a line. would rather you focus on making more of the existing weapons viable and satisfying to use rather than add new ones that just do more of the same thing (and do them worse, in many cases -_-), though i would appreciate a paris prime model re-do because of how it clips through practically every warframes' hip/helmet/both.

[Jackel7]

i'm thinking what kind awards would/should drop from raids? Will players get keys, prime parts or vandal/wraith gear? We have a lot of question but no answers it seems... (the hype is strong here)

[kennylagenz]

i would really like to see bombard rockets to be telegraphed as well. they are hard to spot and are completely silent and have no way of being destroyed with weapons and also follow you with crazy accuracy. i've had a rocket do a 360 back around at me

[Acos]

RAIDS

I would expect that Raids require graduated understanding of the game in order to be completed successfully. They need to be interesting, and most importantly, they need to be *different*. Not just different from a normal mission either, they should ideally be different every time you play them. 

My biggest problem with Raiding and the Raiding environment is that it's only fun the first couple of times you do it; after that it's a thing you run once a week as quickly as possible. It is a focal-point of drama, it's something I need to schedule, and it swiftly becomes a chore. I'm not lying when I tell you that the Raiding part of the game is often where I stop playing. 

The biggest flaw in Raiding is that doing them over and over again is repetitive. Puzzles stop being puzzles when you already know the answer to them, so they'll need more than just moving blocks around to keep them interesting. Do them in a way that I can't just look up a guide and solve them immediately. Have objectives change from the last time I did the Raid. Force the team to split up to complete different coordinate objectives. Just keep in mind while designing this content that you want to keep it from being repetitive to the point of becoming mechanical, rather than fun. 

Maybe disregard the apparent advice that you shouldn't need top-tier equipment to handle Raid Bosses as well. Certainly we should have some lower level Raids, but a big problem with Warframe and our bosses is that it's constantly underestimated how powerful we actually are. Test these things with the types of equipment that players are actually going to bring; Soma Prime, Boltor Prime, Dread, Brakk, Acrid (lol). While I don't want the bosses to be simple HP sponges, they also need to be able to be ALIVE long enough that their more interesting mechanics actually have a chance to be witnessed.

Moving on then, make sure that the bosses aren't ever just... standing around, or that we're waiting for them to do something so that we can hit them. Bosses like Kril and Sargas Ruk are honestly brought down by this because a large portion of the battle is just me running awhile, or standing around while I wait for them to reveal their glow-y point. It's fine if you have periods of invulnerability, but make sure the player has something to DO during these as well. These are GREAT places to put puzzles in by the way; Maybe Super-Omega Raid-Boss Kril needs us to activate some cryo-device in order to freeze him in place so we can shoot his weak point. Things like that. Things where I'm still participating in the fight even if I'm not currently shooting my damn gun. 


TELEGRAPHICAL 

I feel like Nullifiers are a weird example for this; They walk into a room as a giant glowing ball of blue/yellow. I'd hardly say I'm surprised when they show up. The real problem with them, and I refuse to believe the development team is not aware of this by now, is that in T4 missions their Lanka has the capability of one-shotting you. Their combined mechanics make it so that there are only a handful of methods for reliably dealing with them, and these methods are all very Warframe specific. Even then the margin for error is phenomenal as they can outright KILL you in one shot. 

-They cannot be mitigated by powers as they are immune to them. 
-They do tremendous amounts of damage; Health, Shields, Armor, Self-Buffs, it doesn't really matter. You can't reliably defend yourself from these guys. 

-The mechanics of their shield ensure that they cannot be brought down faster than they can bring you down. Even if you are a better shot, their defense and fire-power is simply *better* than yours. This is especially frustrating because it's an area where any of the skill you've developed while playing the game is tossed aside because the enemy is just simply statistically better than you are. It's like trying to have a fist-fight in space against someone who doesn't need to breath oxygen. 

 

All this complaining in mind, I *do* like the Nullifiers as an enemy in lower level areas where their damage is not so absurd that they can instantly destroy you the second the confirm line-of-sight from the other side of the universe. The negate one of our most powerful tactics; crowd control. They cannot be instantly obliterated by any weapon and thus require a bit of time dedicated to taking them down. They show up and completely change how you need to approach them compared to what you're used to. You aren't caught off guard when they show up as they typically announce themselves quite well with their giant glowing orbs. 

But then you get to Tier 4 or Tier 3 and they're obliterating you immediately. They don't need a telegraph, they need their damage reduced. To be blunt, stop skirting around the real issue. They will be a fantastic enemy and a welcome edition if you'd just remove their damn Lanka. 

...

Oh right, Telegraphs. 

Yes, enemies should have more of those. Especially grenades. 

BOWS

Dread is one of my most used primaries; I definitely do not think it's weak, and I absolutely do not want it to become weaker. It's a niche weapon; poor for the general hoard mode of gameplay, but fantastic as a Boss-Slayer and makes stealth gameplay even remotely possible. More than that, it requires practice to get good at using it. Learning it's arc, it's travel time, it's wind-up, how to line up enemies in a row to keep it effective when their numbers are getting overwhelming. The amount of damage it does not only enables the play-style associated with it, but ensures that it is rewarding for mastering it's mechanics. If it did significantly less damage it wouldn't be worth using. 

Compared to Snipers it obviously does quite a bit more damage. I think this is fine; bows *should* do more damage from a game-balance perspective as they are more difficult to master. The Sniper is, generally speaking, the easier to use version of the bow. That being said, a sniper is still a more difficult to use rifle, so it shouldn't be *weak* either. Head shots should be killing most enemies in a single shot. Damage should be high. The gun should reward skilled use of the weapon. Personally speaking, I'm pretty happy with how my Vectis performs after the most recent buff to the weapon. I use my Vectis quite frequently. 



 

[Syln]

What do you expect from raid : 

 

 -unique tilset

 -random event (with specific rewards that goes with them) like invasion from other faction or rival from the same faction or timed event where you have to rush to restore survival fonctionnality that had been shut down, area that get flooded etc etc etc 

 

What do you expect from boss raid :

 

 -Background and unique personnality that make them more than a loot pinata ;D

 -A feature that make them resistant to overpowered weapon or capacity (who said mesa against t4 vor ? (tea for vor :x)

 -Maybe a music theme ?

 

About the overtake : Would have been nice to have the restriction weapon being relevant for the mission (sorry but it wasn't at all :/) that aside i liked it since force us to use unconventional way to complete it ^

 

ps : sorry for the grammar, at least i tried !

[S7ORM]

Overtake TA

I'm probably in the minority, but I particularly enjoyed Overtake. Up until this point, most Tactical Alerts have been "pick your most Conclave-efficient loadout (worth noting that a PvP measurement is not a good way to measure PvE effectiveness) and monotonously run the node to completion on Public". This one encouraged players to think outside the box with strategies and coordinate their efforts.

... Of course, my view may be somewhat tainted by the fact that I completed it in 2 runs.

I think a lot of more experienced players would agree that the Overtake alert was actually decent. Before I get spammed for "being wrong," I simply mean that it actually required teamwork and strategy to complete -- something which the rest of the game is lacking.

 

The thing with Overtake TA is not that it was easy, hard or just right. It was really bad designed, you could complete it without throwing your melee, but spamming abilities and energy restores.

Yes, the throwing melee part was kind of stupid, but the real problem still lies in the fact that Nullifier shields are still an issue, and require a rework. Sure, you could do it with only abilities and energy, but it did require teamwork -- one warframe's abilities weren't enough (for the most part)

 

The Overtake alert was an interesting idea but very oddly executed. I mean seriously... throwing melee against Nullifiers and Arctic Eximus??? Can't kill them with range and you can't get close to them without getting killed. It added challenge, sure, but not really in a fun way. It was very much directed at defensive frames; Frost, Limbo, Nyx, Booben... all others were just cannon fodder.

I agree it was executed in an odd way -- odd is such an odd word though. Yes, it was directed at a specific set of skills -- I feel that this is what Tactical alerts should be though. Conclave limitations really aren't limitations. You just remove stuff until you can bring your Boltor Prime fully modded with you, or whatever.

This alert actually required forethought, and a specific style of play, forcing players that weren't used to that style to adapt. I should like to see other Tactical alerts in the future focused on a different skillset, requiring defensive players to "think outside the [globe]," and use different frames and playstyles. Warframe has many frames -- we should be encouraged to use more than Trinity, 2x Excal and a Rhino/Mirage/Oberon buff.

[ArcusVeles]

Raid Expectations

Make them feel like a full event and not like our usual assassinations - the running through a map to pick off a target, then leave back through that map.  The map itself should be the assassination target.  Run through, disable guns so some people can go out in Archwing to attack outer targets while others inside smash a reactor and take out inner targets, then converge on the outside of the vessel to fight it in its weakened state.

 

Something like that, that gives people different tasks and new experiences to try each time you approach the raid.

 

Telegraphed Attacks

Nothing should hit so hard that it needs a telegraphed attack unless it's a boss.  I'm not saying that non-boss enemies shouldn't be a threat, but I'm also saying that I shouldn't be chunked or hard cc'd by anything that can be found in groups of two or more.  Getting ping ponged around by a few MOA's or one shot by a Nullifier or Tar Mutalist because I can't set my field of view to 360° feels awful.

 

That said, telegraphing bosses (Lephantis is a good example) is definitely more of what I want to see.

 

Void Rewards

Take the keys, cores and the like out of the Void and put them in normal missions  Make all key types easier to focus out (Exterminate keys in Exterminate, Survival in Survival, etc.) and make the key drops far more certain (I am tired of seeing mods instead of keys, and I have a special hatred for Natural Talent).

 

Forma should still stay in the Void, but don't make them as common.  I would like to almost solely see Prime parts in the Void.  Also, put more rare material types in the Void (and Derelict).

 

Overtake

This wasn't difficult.  It was a puzzle, that once you cracked, made the mission a total breeze.  Just like every tactical alert before it.  I like the idea of being challenged to find the solution, but I think the mode needs to be renamed to reflect that.

 

Make the mode lore-wise about purposely limiting and/or themeing our equipment to shame and demoralize our enemies, then name it something like "Exhibition Alerts", or something reflective about their challenge and nature other than "Tactical", which sounds pretty tame and doesn't really reflect the (honestly, pretty cheesy) nature of these missions.

 

Bows

They feel great.  I'd kind of like to see the strengths of uncharged vs. charged attacks exaggerated though.  Uncharged attacks need their damage bumped up a little, and the punch through and hitbox increased on charged attacks.  Right now sniper rifles are excellent at popping one target at a time, and I'd like bows to stretch more in to the punch through and rapid fire niche.

 

A little buff to their charge rate, punch through and reload rate so we don't have to dedicate quite so many mod slots to them would be appreciated, too.

[Dancli]

I want to focus on Raids. Don't make them easy for rushers with epic gears. This should be hard for all levels. With lots of hazards, mechanics and phases. Basically like World of Warcraft. All depends of your team.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Dancli

[BurroWreck]

While Overtake was difficult and challenging, I thought the challenge was very fun. My biggest problem with Overtake was that the restrictions had no real bearing on the mission. Instead of being able to use thrown Melee weapons effectively the sheer amount of Nullifiers and magnetic moas made the mission impossible without spamming defensive abilities and using energy restores. If DE says you need to use a thrown melee weapon during this mission it would be nice to be able to actually use a thrown melee. Aside from this it was a refreshing challenge.

[Boatsniper]

8 player raids? Hell no. Fix the rest of your game first and then we can talk about it.

 

Even if you are foolish enough to develop 8 player raids, at least make them solo-able. You antagonize solo players enough as it is.

 

Telegraphed attacks? Tell that to Seekers, Elite Frontier Lancers, Detron Crewmen, Shield Lancers, Napalms, Bombards, and Slash procs.

 

I find it funny how you completely ignore every single idea on how to fix the void drop tables, yet continually insist on making dilution worse and worse. It's like you hate us or something.

 

I played the tactical alert once and hated every moment of it. You wouldn't know what difficulty stood for even if it repeatedly punched you in the face. The alert sucked because it was literally impossible to complete without Frost spamming snowglobe everywhere, or Nyx camping with absorb in front of the vehicle. Without one of those two frames, the alert was literally impossible to complete. The same can be said for Rhino and all of your "endgame" content. Learn2developvideogame.

 

Bows are garbage, but at the same time, amazing. Amazing in a bad way. The only bow I ever use is Dread. Why? Lethal Slash procs and ridiculous over 100% critical damage. It's the only bow that has kept its viability though all of the ridiculous power creep.

 

Do I want to see more bows? Not until stealth is made viable, which, at this point, may as well be never.

[Genoscythe]

Overtake was a bad design joke, its diffuculty was nonexistent as you were able to master the mission with certain frames without taking any damage, while other frames got straightforward destroyed. Limiting out arsenal is not the way to go IMO, if you make something difficult make it hard to master with all our stuff equipped, and I do not mean give us 100 level 1000 enemies. Just be creative. One time. Just one time.

 

Bows are quite underwhelming if you compare it to other weapons, the reason is not the damage but the firerate, projectile speed and max ammo. Snipers need to be faster if we are constantly confronted with 20+ enemies at once.

 

I'd like to see more bows, however with different mechanics than simple bow+arrow and maybe secondary firemodes.

[DiabolusUrsus]

While Overtake was difficult and challenging, I thought the challenge was very fun. My biggest problem with Overtake was that the restrictions had no real bearing on the mission. Instead of being able to use thrown Melee weapons effectively the sheer amount of Nullifiers and magnetic moas made the mission impossible without spamming defensive abilities and using energy restores. If DE says you need to use a thrown melee weapon during this mission it would be nice to be able to actually use a thrown melee. Aside from this it was a refreshing challenge.

 

YES. I came into the alert very hopeful; There was no conclave (yay, you guys finally realized that it's a worthless measure of power!) and while it restricted us to a specific class of weapons (too bad for anyone who doesn't have those...) it made mention of "new enemies" that would complicate the mission. I was fully expecting a "how well can you handle your glaive/kestrel type of challenge, not a "can you figure out that you need to sit on top of the rover refreshing an ability every half minute" type of "challenge." 

 

Did I miss something, or were the Overtake enemies just a bunch of Anti-MOAs and Nullifier Crewmen with a few Elite Crewmen sprinkled in here and there? 

[Haif]

Snipers are too inconsistent.

Why do bows get to have a guarenteed 100% crit (or higher) on top of higher base damage and massive innate punch through?

 

The only things snipers have going for them are hitscan and scope zoom, and the latter is arguably more of a weakness than it is a strength.

 

I would hightly recommend bringing sniper damage in-line with bows (160-200 base damage or higher) with 40% or higher crit chances so that snipers can actually compete with not only bows, but their close range counterparts, shotguns.

 

Giving snipers a "stance" system where you can change weapon zoom (and/or change reticule pattern) would also be great.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Haif

[7grims]

Yes, spread out the rewards to make other mission types more appealing.

 

This is still the most voted option.....   :(

Do ppl realize this will mean more unwanted prizes spread around both these new missions and the void?

Do ppl realize that even if those new missions are in the solar chart, DE will create new keys?

Cause I bet there is no such thing as free rides to obtain prime parts.

More keys, more grind, more unworthy prizes, less ppl gathering in a single mission hosting or being recruited.

Edited February 1, 2015 by 7grims

[ClockworkSpectre]

In addition to supporting 8 players, what else do you expect/want from Warframe raids?

I voted for almost everything here, I'd love to see puzzles and special mechanics.  Multiple bosses and mini bosses with with not many trash enemies in the raid.  I think there should be level/conclave/mastery restrictions, something not sure which one, but you shouldn't be going into the raids unless you are ready.  A HUGE no to the timed lockouts though, those are just not acceptable, I have played games with them before and they are nothing but infuriating.  Timed lockouts should go die in a fire some where and never come back, they are evil incarnate. 

 

What do you expect from a Warframe raid boss?

I voted for team coordination, requires top gear and mastering mechanics.  To be succesful, you should have to go into the mission with all lvl 30 weapons and frame, with a couple forma on them and potato'd, in other words you need to be able to pump out the dps and survive a beating.  I don't want to see people jumping into a raid mission with the intent on leaching off the rest of the team, or bringing unleveled weapons.  I also don't think that a group should be able to win the raid the first, or even second time they try it out, hence the mastering mechanics vote. 

 

I also voted Other, I'd love to see randomized behavior from the bosses.  I am tired of the scheduled phases of the fights we have been getting, its boring, and too easy.  I want a fight that doesn't feel like its on rails.  As it stands, you could pretty much sleep through most of the boss fights in this game, they need to be more dynamic/random and more exciting.  I also don't want to ever see another boss in this game with invincibility phases, they are a complete cop-out. 

 

Do you think more enemies should telegraph their attacks?

I voted no opinion, I don't really mind so much either way. 

 

Should some void rewards be moved to different mission types outside the void?

Yes, but not many of them, and only the oldest of the prime weapos should have their parts moved out of the void, and maybe forma.  I'd also like to see orokin cells removed from any and all of the drop tables in the void.

 

PC players, in your opinion, the Overtake Tactical Alert was…

Too damned easy.  I do think it was a refreshing change in how DE has built a tactical alert, but it needs a lot of work. 

 

PC players, How did the Overtake tactical alert compare to previous tactical alerts?

It had its problems, *caugh* nullifiers *cough*, but it was pretty good. 

 

Console players, do you feel prepared/excited for the Overtake tactical alert?

No opinion, as I don't play on console. 

 

In your opinion, how do bows compare to other weapon types overall?

They are in general, more powerful than most of the weapons in the game.  Under a lot of circumstances they out perform most weapons.  Snipers should get the innate punch through that bows have and bows should have it removed, they already have the knock back.  Right now bows are filling the role that snipers should be filling.  Snipers should have the consistency that bows have, and the bows should be stealth weapons. 

 

Would you like to see more bows added to the Warframe arsenal?

Not until DE brings snipers up to par with bows.  They both fill somewhat the same role, but bows blow snipers out of the water right now. 

 

 

I'd like to add, I am very concerned that DE is only NOW asking us what we expect in an 8 man raid instead of a month ago.  It implies that U16 is still a long way off considering they want to put 8 man raids into U16.  We currently are over 3 months and a week since the last update and if I remember correctly that is the longest wait we have had so far.  Raids should be pushed back to 16.5 and U16 should get pushed ASAP, the wait has been to long.  Considering the holiday break, they shouldn't have gone so ambitious for U16. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by ClockworkSpectre

[tehgreg]

There is only one thing that I would like to comment on: raids and bosses.

 

Many people voted for special mechanics and phases for bosses an I'm really concerned about this. I'm fine with bosse having different attack patters or using different tactics/weapons or changing forms but I'd hate to see one thing: invulnerability phases.

 

This is the most boring part of any boss fight. Having to wait for the enemy to expose their one weak spot for a brief amount of time is boring and it breaks the pace of the fight.

[SgtRobby]

I think there should be timers on bosses if the mission type supports it. Also, I think the overtake alert was a great challenge without going overboard. It really promoted team communication and forward thinking to the mission type and adjusting your build accordingly. So far it seems the only people that were upset with it are Solo players, which I can understand, and players who may be low rank and do not possess the greatest gear and/or mods.

Raids would be awesome, but I don't think there should be a timer or weekly lock out on it. There should just be different difficulty levels for each raid, IE you can do a 4-man run at a certain level for certain rewards, whereas running 8 man at a harder level would mean better rewards(similar to World of warcraft's normal, heroic, and raid difficulties). I think that would be the best mode to run raids, because people are already super &!$$ed at the amount of RNG in the game, so locking out raids every week is even more frustrating, and I fear it may push more players away instead of bringing more and keeping existing players. If you have to put a lockout on raids, do 3 days.

[CherryRammer]

About what I'm hoping to see in raids.

 

A good matchmaking system.

Last thing I want is browsing through recruitment chat or having to invite my friends when they are not really up for warframe.

 

What I would like to see is roles assigned to different warframe. This may take a bit of effort on DE's side, but not much, I think.

Few example:

Healer: Trinity, Oberon

Tank: Rhino, Valkyr

Damage: Volt, Saryn

Support: Vauban, Frost

 

Based on this, players would be assigned to public raids which are missing said roles.

As a Volt player, I wouldn't take Volt as a damage type Warframe, he's more of a support since I use his shield and speed more often than his shock and overload.

[Shifted]

Raid bosses:

 

Don't make them just "the same, but bigger!"

 

Make them require coordination between players. Give them special rewards, multiple phases etc. Make them STAND OUT.

 

 

Void rewards reshuffle:

 

Bad idea. You won't make mission types more appealing by putting all the good rewards there. If something's not fun to play, adding better loot won't make it more fun to play. Make the gameplay more appealing, not the rewards.

 

 

 

Overtake:

 

I like that instead of conclave there was a weapon type limit, but I didn't like how the alert played out.

 

If you have to spam energy restores in order to get through it, something's broken.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Shifted

[(PSN)DanceOnUrGav3]

My hopes for the raids are that done of the sections are randomized, so that they don't have the monotamy of Destiny's raids. I also hope they have varying difficulty levels with varying rewards. 

 

As far as bows are concerned, I like them but they could use some love. I divvy think the bows themselves need buffed, but they could do with more mods. Also I think thunderbolts damage should be based off of the weapon damage, instead of a fixed number 

[Deidaku]

About spreading void loot across the map : I have an idea

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/379801-why-arent-there-void-sabotage-alerts/#entry4350946

[Bibliothekar]

Did I miss something, or were the Overtake enemies just a bunch of Anti-MOAs and Nullifier Crewmen with a few Elite Crewmen sprinkled in here and there?

I saw some Oxium Ospreys, too. But apart from that - yeah, that was pretty much it.

I've said it before, but when I read that the TA was limited to thrown melee, I was hoping that this was, because DE had decided to make Nullifier bubbles vulnerable to that type of weapon. Well ...

 

Giving snipers a "stance" system where you can change weapon zoom (and/or change reticule pattern) would also be great.

That would be so cool. I remember that in the UI-Devstream we were promised a system to change and customize crosshairs and sniper scopes. Never heard about that one again ...

[VoidNomade]

Tac Alert:

 

Was okayish. Just balance it a bit. Like give the car(?) a shield that can be activated every X seconds/minutes so certain frames are not a must have in those type of mission and/or buff the HP a bit so you can at least make 1-2 mistakes. Beating the tac alert fall in the category: cheese the F*** out of the game. That´s not what i think how the alert should look like.

 

Bow:

 

Don´t care. Shotgun buff is where the sugar meats the candy.

[ChronicTonic]

Speaking of telegraphs, what about the Grineer commanders, and their insta-teleport that stuns you without warning as you take fire, unable to move?