Was The Removal Of Arcane Helms Neccesary? [Added] Possible Proposal Of Return

[Salenstormwing]

Isn't this the same argument about Excal Prime and Founder status?

 

The answer is, "They were in the game, and now they're not available. If you missed out, sorry. Next question."

[izzatuw]

Isn't this the same argument about Excal Prime and Founder status?

 

The answer is, "They were in the game, and now they're not available. If you missed out, sorry. Next question."

Nope, Excalibur Prime is Exclusively for founders accounts and completely bind to it. Arcane helms as long as they're built can be traded and given to even an MR2, while on the other hand, Excalibur Prime will always remain on that account and that account only and in no legal or legitimate way to be given to anyone else.

[Tsukinoki]

@izzatuw
Problem with offering them side by side: It still pretty much forces people to use the stat helmet with the good stats regardless of how horrible it looks.

As an example Trinity's helmets.

With your idea of them side by side I could either:
A) Wear a statless Meridian helmet that looks cool and I like while losing out on a huge buff to power duration
B) Wear a statted Aura helmet that looks ugly as sin and gain a 25% increase to power duration
That's not a real choice.
Either I am massively gimping myself and my frame or I am wearing a helmet that looks ugly as sin and I hate.

That's the problem.
Having the helmets co-exist doesn't solve anything, its a false choice.
Its the same choice as: "I can have either a redirection on this frame or an intruder..."
Not a real choice at all.

[izzatuw]

@izzatuw

Problem with offering them side by side: It still pretty much forces people to use the stat helmet with the good stats regardless of how horrible it looks.

As an example Trinity's helmets.

With your idea of them side by side I could either:

A) Wear a statless Meridian helmet that looks cool and I like while losing out on a huge buff to power duration

B) Wear a statted Aura helmet that looks ugly as sin and gain a 25% increase to power duration

That's not a real choice.

Either I am massively gimping myself and my frame or I am wearing a helmet that looks ugly as sin and I hate.

That's the problem.

Having the helmets co-exist doesn't solve anything, its a false choice.

Its the same choice as: "I can have either a redirection on this frame or an intruder..."

Not a real choice at all.

You bring good points but +eff helms and Vanguard helm are the only ones people will not think twice about putting on for a sacrifice on looks. Like Vespa, some like Nyx Prime's default helm but you'd have to put Vespa for a free slot and I personally didn't like it. Sure some helms like Aura seem nice but it really only adds 2-3 seconds which isn't all that.

[Salenstormwing]

Nope, Excalibur Prime is Exclusively for founders accounts and completely bind to it. Arcane helms as long as they're built can be traded and given to even an MR2, while on the other hand, Excalibur Prime will always remain on that account and that account only and in no legal or legitimate way to be given to anyone else.

 

True, but still, if you're a new player, is it gunna bother you that there's arcane helmets out there when you can get the normal un-arcane ones just the same? I know players who suggest concepts like "a Warframe with the power of magnetism", because they never took 2 seconds to find out if it was already part of the game.

 

Arcane helmets are out there for trade, and if folks want them, that's great, but no one is forced to go get them. Maybe after a while, you've played the game enough, and you want to build TEH BESTEST LOKI EVARS, then sure, you might want to invest in a trade for an arcane BP loki helm, but at least now it's an option for a player instead of a "I must get this because of stats and not because it looks like garbage".

 

DE wanted to make cosmetics statless, but didn't want to punish the folks who WANTED those stats and who had worked hard (or spent money) to get those stat'd helmets. So here we are with the compromise. Trade for Arcane helmets you want, and no Excal Prime for you. Evars.

[zoboso]

The problem with the arcane helmets is that each said helmet is a corrupted mod that only can be used on a certain frame, that doesn't use up a mod slot. This is why arcane's are so powerful for maximization. If you were given an option for a free slot would you use it.

[izzatuw]

True, but still, if you're a new player, is it gunna bother you that there's arcane helmets out there when you can get the normal un-arcane ones just the same? I know players who suggest concepts like "a Warframe with the power of magnetism", because they never took 2 seconds to find out if it was already part of the game.

Arcane helmets are out there for trade, and if folks want them, that's great, but no one is forced to go get them. Maybe after a while, you've played the game enough, and you want to build TEH BESTEST LOKI EVARS, then sure, you might want to invest in a trade for an arcane BP loki helm, but at least now it's an option for a player instead of a "I must get this because of stats and not because it looks like garbage".

DE wanted to make cosmetics statless, but didn't want to punish the folks who WANTED those stats and who had worked hard (or spent money) to get those stat'd helmets. So here we are with the compromise. Trade for Arcane helmets you want, and no Excal Prime for you. Evars.

The issue is that it only satisfies one side of the group, what about the other half? The issue is that DE's practically teasing the other side. It hardly seems satisfying when people (who wants statless helms) still have knowledge that these Arcane helms still exist today. Except the only means to gain them is by trading, which hardly seems to have done much. The only difference was that they moved the helms from the market to trading. Players who don't want stat-based helms just turned to look at the situation differently although the only thing that's difference is the perspective.

And stop with the Excalibur Prime thing, don't change the topic, it's frustrating enough that you bring that topic and try to derail the thread while you use 2 completely different scenarios. Quote one time I actually said "I want Excal Prime" in the OP. I'll wait.

Edit: Let's say DE brings back Arcane's in the market and seperates them with statless helms. Will players suddenly go "Oh you know it's a manipulated decision". What the heck is the difference with its current condition? Players can still obtain them and players who don't will ignore them correct? They could not be ignored before because statless helms were non-existant, now they do, so what's the issue if both exist in the same time at the market? Will players suddenly choose to not ignore them and head to the statless helms section and rant how cosmetics have stats etc?

Edited February 4, 2015 by izzatuw

[Kripion]

@izzatuw

Problem with offering them side by side: It still pretty much forces people to use the stat helmet with the good stats regardless of how horrible it looks.

As an example Trinity's helmets.

With your idea of them side by side I could either:

A) Wear a statless Meridian helmet that looks cool and I like while losing out on a huge buff to power duration

B) Wear a statted Aura helmet that looks ugly as sin and gain a 25% increase to power duration

That's not a real choice.

Either I am massively gimping myself and my frame or I am wearing a helmet that looks ugly as sin and I hate.

That's the problem.

Having the helmets co-exist doesn't solve anything, its a false choice.

Its the same choice as: "I can have either a redirection on this frame or an intruder..."

Not a real choice at all.

absolutely this.

 

And about ugly ones ... compare arcane essence and loki prime helmet... if the primed steamline comes out I will feel FORCED to use arcane essence helmet because of huge advantage it provides (I will be able to get rid of fleeting expertise and its 40% duration penalty, and get free slot for irradiating disarm or stretch)

Edited February 4, 2015 by Kripion

[[DE]Momaw]

What I am getting from this topic is: "Please make arcane helmets not tradeable, it's not fair to tease newer players with things that they can't afford".

[izzatuw]

What I am getting from this topic is: "Please make arcane helmets not tradeable, it's not fair to tease newer players with things that they can't afford".

That's not the issue, the issue is how DE handled it. How different is it now compared to before?

Arcane helms were removed from the market and replaced with statless helms.

Arcane helm converters are in the game which allows stat helms to be statless.

But you can still get arcane helms from trade, generally saying anyone can get them. So why not just let the arcane helms return in different forms, syndicates, clan tech, etc. The whole we'll remove the helms but still capable of being tradable is part of the issue but not the main issue. What I got was that players didn't want stat based helms to sacrifice looks, how is that issue really settled?

Edit: The only real difference is the method of obtaining said helms but in reality, the issue exists still.

Edited February 4, 2015 by izzatuw

[Dillon_J]

im glad they are gone because now on characters like say trinity you arent forced to use the toilet helmet. back when they were around more abundantly it would be a terrible idea to use anything but that helmet. there are other helmets that fall under this as well.

[Phatose]

I'm pretty sure his point is that you're still forced to wear it if you want to be optimally efficient.  It's just that now instead of hitting the market or waiting for an alert to get one, you've got to hit trade chat - and pay quite a bit more.

 

Same problem of 'wear this helmet for maximum effectiveness' still exists, but it's just harder to get said helmet.

[Star]

I'm pretty sure his point is that you're still forced to wear it if you want to be optimally efficient.  It's just that now instead of hitting the market or waiting for an alert to get one, you've got to hit trade chat - and pay quite a bit more.

 

Same problem of 'wear this helmet for maximum effectiveness' still exists, but it's just harder to get said helmet.

This is pretty much my thought on it, as well.

 

I wouldn't want to see them completely removed, but I don't see much harm in having them as an option to obtain in game somehow. The kind of people who care about getting those stats will do so, even if they don't care for the looks (  as they currently are, just with a little more rarity since obtaining them isn't readily available ) - and the people who don't care so much about the stats will continue remain more or less unaffected.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Star

[SIDESTRE4M]

Arcane helmets exist -> set standard.

 

People think they gimp themselves if they don't have them.

 

Arcane helmets don't exist -> set standard.

 

People will chose helmet only for looks.

 

Current situation: Pay for advantage. (Not to win... that would be exaggerating in most cases, maybe except a few).

 

Solution? S#&$storm by players who love them or S#&$storm by players who don't have them.

[Salenstormwing]

The issue is that it only satisfies one side of the group, what about the other half? The issue is that DE's practically teasing the other side. It hardly seems satisfying when people (who wants statless helms) still have knowledge that these Arcane helms still exist today. Except the only means to gain them is by trading, which hardly seems to have done much. The only difference was that they moved the helms from the market to trading. Players who don't want stat-based helms just turned to look at the situation differently although the only thing that's difference is the perspective.

 

What other side of the group? People who want stats on hats? If you want them, go trade. You don't want to trade for them, that's your call. The game isn't ruined off the fact that there are hats out there with stats on them. And DE doesn't want to make a lot of folks angry with stat hats to take them away.

 

So they made a decision to say "No more after this point".

 

It's the marker for when this was decided to take place. Is it fair to the brand new tenno? No, but DE said... "What's the least inconvenient thing we could do?", and they said "No more Arcane hats after X Date" and said "If you want them, trade for them".

 

Perfect solution, maybe not, but it IS a good solution amongst a lot of garbage options.

 

So no, DE is just gunna keep going on, and the further away we get from the land of Arcane hats, the less they'll be important to anyone but folks who are collectors or folks who just HAVE to have something to satisfy their bucket list.

[AM-Bunny]

I agree that the devs handled this in the worst way possible. They split players into two categories:

 

1) I have all the Arcane helmets, but now I can't use the helms I like aesthetically, which defeats the point of them being removed.

2) I don't have all the Arcane helmets, I feel like I missed out on something huge, and now I can't be as strong as many other players. Enjoy resorting to the black market and trying to find someone who won't rip you off, and maybe you'll someday join category 1.

 

Both categories suck.

 

The devs should have gone all the way, and just removed stats from all helmets. Would it have been somewhat annoying to have a helm you bought stripped of its stats? Yes, but you'd get over it pretty quick. The devs were so afraid of backlash (qq) from players that they went with some half-assed solution that everyone loses in. Terrible.

Edited February 4, 2015 by AM-Bunny

[Phoenix86]

If they compensate me with 75p for each Arcane Helmet i own i would be fine with the removal of all of them

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

I'm dont care, really, couse i have a way to buy it.

But this only reason i dont hate DE.

 

If it be more limited, so i see in game the opportunity that I miss just screw you thats why, I probably would have thrown the game.

Seriosly, it really matter to me. I must have opportunity to maximize my bild.

 

BTW i notice it's another strange decision.

In fact players have absolutely the same choices. Or they use the right helmet, or one that they like how it looks.

 

So we have no solution now at all.

I dont know, maybe it cocain falls in Canada instead of snow. But I see only one reasonable solution. If you want to give people a new opportunity -- let her. Let this be a difficult path that will require more cost, well, the same and better for you. Let it be a transmute which will require two helmets, one would take statistics, and the second will be just a base for cosmetics.

 

If you decided not to do more arcane helmets... well, ok. It's your game.
And even to remove them from the game would be a solution. Yes, it was a little unfair, but in the end this online game. We have a bunch of nerfs have or buffs, or just a new weapon that destroys the costs invested in the old. Finally, when you increased the drop rate of Oxium it was completely the same. Someone has invested a lot in the farm, and these efforts in comparison with the current situation proved to be useless.

 

 

 

A sayd it again -- now we have a strange situation which in fact dont solve nothing. "Coercion" will not go away. That is now not in the store, and in trade chat -- very funny change. And all these guys, for whom appearance in the game is more important than stats are got nothing.

Edited February 5, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Language

[sekushiiandee]

i didnt think it was necessary

 

it would be nice to have both the non-stat and the stat option

 

most of the time ppl dont even know if youre using an arcane helm or a regular helm unless youre using vanguard with rhino

 

i dont see how it even matters or how it even broke the game in the first place.....with the new mods coming out...it destroys everyone's previous game breaking theory about arcane helms ruining stats

 

it was petty arguments back then and poor decisions made on DE's part.......

 

arcane helms were really the only helmets worth purchasing with plat ingame.....the non-stat ones....i can wait it out a few months for new ones to release.....

 

anyway....both options would have been best (no arcanes on alerts)....but totally removing arcanes from market was a bad choice

Edited February 4, 2015 by sekushiiandee

[Sloan441]

Good lord.

 

The arcane helms aren't that good. At best, they can save you a slot to use for something else. At best. Most of that advantage was largely attenuated by the removal of ability mods. They're nice, but hardly necessary for anything.

 

Way to blow things way out of proportion, but that's fairly typical--if deplorable--in gaming communities.

[[DE]Momaw]

I'm pretty sure his point is that you're still forced to wear it if you want to be optimally efficient.  It's just that now instead of hitting the market or waiting for an alert to get one, you've got to hit trade chat - and pay quite a bit more.

 

Same problem of 'wear this helmet for maximum effectiveness' still exists, but it's just harder to get said helmet.

 

And again; making them not tradeable solves this completely. If you don't have it, you can't get it, so then you can move on with your life. Making the arcane helmets effectively a minor exclusive item (like event weapons) for people that have them.

 

 

 

The devs should have gone all the way, and just removed stats from all helmets. Would it have been somewhat annoying to have a helm you bought stripped of its stats? Yes, but you'd get over it pretty quick.

 

The presence of these threads, which pop up regularly almost a year after the fact, kind of disproves the notion that people get over things pretty quick.

[ARavenousPanda]

i feel the stats dont influence the game in a meaningful way, de regrets making them, one of those "good idea at the time" moments. As mentioned they didnt want to influence cosmetics with stats, and i am of the opinion [even though i own most of them] of removing them from the game.

 

EDIT:i dont feel 75 plat is an acceptable compensation, some people paid like 1k for arcane vanguard....

Edited February 4, 2015 by DarkArchon

[Tymerc]

In regards to selling them, even if it's 5 years later where they are one of the rarest things ever, I refuse to sell mine. I earned them, I am keeping them.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Tymerc

[Innocent_Flower]

Good lord.

 

The arcane helms aren't that good. At best, they can save you a slot to use for something else. At best. Most of that advantage was largely attenuated by the removal of ability mods. They're nice, but hardly necessary for anything.

 

Some arcane helmets make the frame tolerable to play. 

 

I wouldn't be able to play rhino/saryn at all without speed. And I don't wanna give a mod slot up for sprint boost when I could put something universally useful down instead. 

[Separius]

Yes it was.

Hell, I would be fine with arcanes being removed from the game.

 

"Let's ignore that people paid real money for them, remove them ayy lmao!!!! XDDDDDDD"

 

How's being a NEET going for you?

Edited February 4, 2015 by Separius