The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[Valafor]

People are taking Tenno being energy at  face value. It was a metaphor. If i said hope is a thing of feathers do I honestly believe that the concept of hope is literally bird feathers? Or if I say it is raining cats and dogs do I honestly believe that household pets are crashing into the ground from the  sky? What Vor is saying is that the Warframe powers do not derive from the frame and that Tenno simply use them but rather the Tenno themselves innately have the warframe powers and the warframe helps us use or control the powers. it is not so much that Tenno are energy beings but more like superheroes. 

[Achaix]

Ok. Ties up missions as universally cannon events - which they don't have to be for one and can't be for another. I can't tell you how many times I've run Phobos Assassinate for Milter parts, but Vor and Krill just keep coming back to life. You would think that even with the power of infinite resurrections, they'd have gone from "You will die here, Tenno!" to ". . . please don't hurt me again" by now.

But the real question is: If that's the case, why did Limbo, Mirage, and Chroma all die? As in, for realzies? Is this another case of Phoenex down suddenly not working because its a cutscene? The only reasonable answer is that we changed between the era where we could die, and now. Though it effectively eliminates the threat in Vor's Prize, and doesn't explain where we "reside" as we're fairly clearly shown "ourselves" dropping out of the stasis pod rather than assuming command of that frame.

Ah, there it is. Gameplay mechanics and lore don't always match up, I'll admit that.

The truth is, I don't know.

Mirage, Limbo and Chroma... off the top of my head, perhaps the Sentients are OP to the point of completely killing a Tenno and their Warframe. Or perhaps the original Warframe bearers died because they were prototypes, and we're Tenno 2.0?

As for us waking up from a cryopod? Easy: Tenno willfully enter cryopods in their Warframes and allow themselves to be locked in indefinitely.

It's like loading a program into a pendrive, wiping the original from your computer and then tossing that pendrive into a locked box. Not to say that Tenno are programs or anything.

[IANOBW]

There was an entry that said the powers of the frames come from the "whatever" is inside, not the warframe suit of armor.

 

If this is the case then why can we only use the abilities of the frame we are in, why can't I use rhino stomb in nova.  If Tenno are energy or one Tenno that can wear all the frames they should be able to use every ability in any frame right?

 

That alone tells me every warframe is worn by it's own tenno and they are all seperate (And not energy).

 

Vor already said that the Warframes are comparable to prisms to polarise the light of a Tenno's "energy".

 

The suits all have their own functions, the Tenno power the suit.

 

 

Edit: I've been ninja'd by the actual statement being posted just below your comment.

Edited April 26, 2015 by IANOBW

[Spindle99]

People are taking Tenno being energy at  face value. It was a metaphor. If i said hope is a thing of feathers do I honestly believe that the concept of hope is literally bird feathers? Or if I say it is raining cats and dogs do I honestly believe that household pets are crashing into the ground from the  sky? What Vor is saying is that the Warframe powers do not derive from the frame and that Tenno simply use them but rather the Tenno themselves innately have the warframe powers and the warframe helps us use or control the powers. it is not so much that Tenno are energy beings but more like superheroes. 

 

This.

 

If I get on a bike I am the energy that makes it move, I'm not made of energy.

[IANOBW]

This.

 

If I get on a bike I am the energy that makes it move, I'm not made of energy.

 

But in this case, the Tenno is the energy used to power the Warframe (the bike).

[Achaix]

Also in the Mirage quest, Lotus says something about "surging the revive system" so shouldn't Mirage have just warped back to her Liset, rather than dying? No, she died, with a smile.

No, I don't know why. As I mentioned just a moment ago, either:

- Original Warframe bearers die

- Sentients are OP

But your point has only poked a hole into the lore, which already has more holes than Swiss cheese. Your point does not prove or disprove my or your theory.

[Spindle99]

That is because whatever the tenno are, they need frames as a kind of focusing tool for their energy. As mentioned by Vor in some quote, frames are the shaping tools for the energy that is the tenno.

 

Think of it like home appliances, electricity is the core component that runs everything but on its own it can't do squat. It needs appliances to perform unique functions, you put it in a microwave it cooks stuff, put it in a fan you getting wind, but just because its the same energy doesn't mean you should be getting a breeze from your microwave and a baked burrito from the fan. 

 

A focusing tool maybe, they could still use the abilities of every warframe (think Xmen) or at least the more frames you unlock the more variation in the skills.  IT would be nonsense to say they could only use the skills in the specific frame like that.

 

The Tenno are corrupted by the void and gain mutant powers but..they can't use them at all unless they put on the correct armor.  Is that what you're saying?

 

I think we are all honestly way over-thinking it as I said in the other thread, they are all seperate characters.   You guys are giving DE way too much credit for having this incredibly complex lore system when the truth is it's probably nowhere near as complex (keep in mind they have told us almost nothing and avoid it like the plague).

 

If the lore was fleshed out and as complex as you all think they would of told us, there is no reason to hide it if they have it all figured.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Spindle99

[Morec0]

Umm.... ever thought that Ordis was referring to the player and not the Tenno? Breaking the 4th wall and such...

 

That was a big arguement against that, but DE responded to a question about it by saying "We don't like to do that", and since then, even when in 15.5 some of the dialogue in the quest was changed, nothing has been said to dispute this. With the latter addition of "Operator, your chosen Warframe SUITS you" and this both in mind, it can be solidly confirmed that this is NOT a fourth-wall-breaking moment.

 

Original conversation: http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2ksp3t/we_are_members_of_digital_extremes_and_we_develop/

 

 

[–]SilentMobius 16 points 5 months ago* 

When creating dialogue for the various characters in the game, what is your general stance on breaking the 4th wall and addressing the player directly?

 

Is it something you avoid, something that needs a good reason, or do you have no issue having NPC's speak to the player in ways that have no real meaning in-world?

 

Here is an example, in the recent Limbo quest Ordis tells us:

 

Operator, I think I know why we're finding Limbo parts scattered throughout the system. His final rift walk was a miscalc... disaster. Well, perhaps when you occupy the frame, you will use more... caution

It's been suggested that this is intended to be a 4th wall break addressing the player and has no meaning in-world, whats your opinion on that?

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[–]DigitalExtremesOFFICIAL Digital Extremes Account - Live from London, Ontario! 19 points 5 months ago 

I don't like doing this at all but I know there are some lines have slipped in that do this. That line example might get an edit to remove that ambiguity. - SS

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[–]SilentMobius 17 points 5 months ago 

So, are you saying that in your opinion that line isn't in-world?

 

Because it pretty much confirmed that a single Tenno can change Warframes if it was. Which was great IMHO.

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Edited April 26, 2015 by Morec0

[HAYABU5A]

vor says "each warframe you control"

 

ordis says "perhaps when you occupy this frame"

 

a humanoid in a exoarmor battle suit would not occupy or control it, it would just be something they wore, only a entity that exist above the physical plane would occupy or control a body 

 

tenno warriors have transcended their humanity and exist as pure consciousness via an unknown orokin process

this allows them to harness the void energy for battle

they manifest the energy with the abilities of the warframes the occupy

warframes are designs from the original creations, replicated and standardized

exoarmor combined with a technocyte "body", when occupied by a tenno the ultimate warrior is created 

the orokin perfected a solider to fight the sentients, who could safely harness the power of the void and exceed physical limitations of normal humanoids 

[CriticalFumble]

There was an entry that said the powers of the frames come from the "whatever" is inside, not the warframe suit of armor.

 

If this is the case then why can we only use the abilities of the frame we are in, why can't I use rhino stomb in nova.  If Tenno are energy or one Tenno that can wear all the frames they should be able to use every ability.

 

That alone tells me every warframe is worn by it's own tenno and they are all seperate.

In a word, no. 

 

It would help if you said could remember what you're referring to, but here are the two I remember.  One is the Excalibur entry, that the suits are "conduits of the [Tenno] affliction".  The other is a currently cut segment related to Arid Fear where Vor is speculating on the nature of Tenno, saying that the frames are "lightning rods" for our powers.  The implication is that our power is like light, and the frames are focusing apparatuses that allow specific things to be done, and without them our attempts to channel the Void power would be sloppy on a good day.  Think like a wizard's staff or wand, or ask why when you stick a battery in one device it makes it emit light while in another it generates noise. 

 

They are tools, you use a saw on a tree, and an scissors on paper, but the same hand and body controls them. 

 

 

Ah, there it is. Gameplay mechanics and lore don't always match up, I'll admit that.

The truth is, I don't know.

Mirage, Limbo and Chroma... off the top of my head, perhaps the Sentients are OP to the point of completely killing a Tenno and their Warframe. Or perhaps the original Warframe bearers died because they were prototypes, and we're Tenno 2.0?

As for us waking up from a cryopod? Easy: Tenno willfully enter cryopods in their Warframes and allow themselves to be locked in indefinitely.

It's like loading a program into a pendrive, wiping the original from your computer and then tossing that pendrive into a locked box. Not to say that Tenno are programs or anything.

Or in the canon but not the game, for obvious reasons, Tenno actually die when they get killed.  The "Sentients OP" idea only holds water if permadeath is going to be a feature in the future, and we know that Alad V killed a number of Tenno in his experiments.  I also don't see how a prototype frame is more susceptible to, well, death, than a copycat frame. 

 

You're also missing my point about popping out of the cryopod.  If our immortality comes from having backups laying around, how does death before farming up a Rhino not result in death/account wipe?  Obvious gameplay reason, but the lore doesn't seem to support it, much like how you're stuck running an escape mission if you get harvested, rather than busting in with a full kit of functioning gear and extracting your stolen property. 

[Gelkor]

Just because I don't think we are bishies doesn't mean I think we are energy.  I just think we're kinda disgusting lumps of flesh in vaugely human shapes, ala: Rhino Codex

[Spindle99]

Warframe Wiki

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tenno

 

The Tenno are mysterious in the extreme, with most details about their lives, origins, and motives unknown. Given this mystery, there is much speculation surrounding many aspects of the Tenno.

Considering that the Tenno can be kept in biostasis, require life support, can bleed, breathe, die, and that various NPCs, such as General Sargas Ruk and Lech Kril, refer to the Warframes themselves as suits, it is well established that Warframes are suits of armor, and that they contain living, organic Tenno. Lotus' in-game comment, "Other than you, I can't detect any lifeforms on the ship", which may be heard during extermination missions after all enemies are killed.

The Codex info from Excalibur Prime directly states that Tenno are individuals "twisted by the void", and that the Orokin built suits around them; those suits being prime Warframes. It is still yet to be explained how the Tenno ended up with industrially reverse-engineered Warframes, as opposed to the supposed Orokin variants.

At one point during Vor's Prize, Captain Vor says, "Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno are that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light." This seems to suggest that the powers each Tenno possesses come from the Tenno themselves, rather than their Warframes, and the Warframes may simply channel or enhance those abilities. This is further corroborated by the Rhino Prime Codex which describes an out-of-suit Tenno using abilities like Iron Skin without a Warframe.

In contrast to this, however, is the Infested Mesa encountered during Patient Zero which uses Warframe abilities despite being described by Lotus as "hollow" and without a Tenno. The same could be said for the presumably-Sentient-controlled Chroma in The New Strange, which uses its abilities as well - though the exact state of this Warframe is never directly elaborated on. There is also no hard evidence that the humanoid creature described in the Rhino Prime Codex is a Tenno, and the fact that the narrator was unaware of even the Zariman's return from the Void, though had worked on "countless" like the creature itself, may in fact disprove the theory altogether.

It can be assumed that the Warframes that existed during the war with the Sentients were unique - that is, that there were only single copies of each, built around a single Tenno. This is supported by the description of the Valkyr Warframe: the "original" having been experimented upon, and all subsequent Warframes being copies of that one original; thus reflecting the damage inflicted upon it. Furthermore, the Nova Warframe which was designed by the Tenno Council (as Lotus claims), the Mirage Warframe being lost "forever" upon her destruction (as revealed during the Hidden Message quest) and the parts of Limbo Warframe found all over the system after his destruction as revealed at the end of the The Limbo Theorem quest, plus the subsequent rebuilding of the frame from blueprints suggests that aside from a few basic Warframes, all were specially designed and singular - only copied en masse by contemporary Tenno fighting against the overwhelming numbers the opposing factions possess.

 

 

 

This is further corroborated by the Rhino Prime Codex which describes an out-of-suit Tenno using abilities like Iron Skin without a Warframe.

 

The Lore of this game is a mess, simple as that.  You are all putting way too much thought into it.  The "lore" contradicts itself all over the place.  DE don't even know what the Tenno are anymore.

 

They say that the Tenno are the ones that control the powers one minute, that the frame is a conduit.

The next piece of lore says they can use powers outside of the frames (and if this is the case ember should be able to use rhino stomp).

Then they show a warframe with an infested inside it using warframe powers.

 

This is why prime additions don't add lore anymore, they keep contradicting themselves so they stopped trying.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Spindle99

[DaedricToast666]

There was an entry that said the powers of the frames come from the "whatever" is inside, not the warframe suit of armor.

 

If this is the case then why can we only use the abilities of the frame we are in, why can't I use rhino stomb in nova.  If Tenno are energy or one Tenno that can wear all the frames they should be able to use every ability in any frame right?

 

That alone tells me every warframe is worn by it's own tenno and they are all seperate (And not energy).

I was thinking that when you use your power, you channel some kind of force through passages in your warframe, or your systems. Each warframe has a different set of these passages so the end result would be a wide spectrum of different powers. The force or whatever it is would be the same kind of pressure just used differently by each warframe body.

 

EDIT #1: whoops accidentally said the same thing cubewano did. :D

Edited April 26, 2015 by DaedricToast666

[CriticalFumble]

I was thinking that when you use your power, you channel some kind of force through passages in your warframe, or your systems. Each warframe has a different set of these passages so the end result would be a wide spectrum of different powers. The force or whatever it is would be the same kind of pressure just used differently by each warframe body.

 

EDIT #1: whoops accidentally said the same thing spindle did. :D

You actually disagreed. 

 

You're contending that the same input results in different powers depending on the frame you are currently in.  Change frame, change powers. 

 

He's contending that specific Tenno have access to specific powers and only wear one specific suit.  Change Tenno change powers. 

[DaedricToast666]

You actually disagreed. 

 

You're contending that the same input results in different powers depending on the frame you are currently in.  Change frame, change powers. 

 

He's contending that specific Tenno have access to specific powers and only wear one specific suit.  Change Tenno change powers. 

I had to change it again i got the wrong poster. :( I'm scatterbrained right now.

[Spindle99]

This is why we keep having these discussions honestly, the lore is a mess and contradicts itself all over the place.

 

DE need to step up and finalize the lore and what we are, cause right now it's a complete and utter mess.  U17 better do it or it will never happen.

 

We might as well be power rangers for all the sense the lore makes.

[CriticalFumble]

This is further corroborated by the Rhino Prime Codex which describes an out-of-suit Tenno using abilities like Iron Skin without a Warframe.

Bud, did you personally read the Rhino Prime entry?  It describes something that can quickly convert its skin to armor, most likely, or just shift its shape.  Which sounds a lot like an infested monster rather than a real Tenno.  The other part you did not see is that the narrator said he had "cut its shell".  A Tenno's "shell" would be his warframe, as all humans have is skin. 

 

The first thing you need to do is read from the source material.  In this case, none of the words "Tenno", "warframe", "Iron Skin", or "Rhino" appeared in that section.  People took a look at it, chose a specific way to see it, and forced a contradiction where there is none. 

 

The second is to realize that a significant chink of the ambiguity is intentional.  Partly for suspense, partly to lead us along, but mostly because of the way its being told.  The whole point is that we all woke up without memories in a universe that had moved on without us.  The Tenno not exactly in the know right now, and logically neither are the players. 

[Hypernaut1]

This is why we keep having these discussions honestly, the lore is a mess and contradicts itself all over the place.

 

DE need to step up and finalize the lore and what we are, cause right now it's a complete and utter mess.  U17 better do it or it will never happen.

 

We might as well be power rangers for all the sense the lore makes.

Its not a mess, its incomplete. 

[Achaix]

In a word, no. 

 

It would help if you said could remember what you're referring to, but here are the two I remember.  One is the Excalibur entry, that the suits are "conduits of the [Tenno] affliction".  The other is a currently cut segment related to Arid Fear where Vor is speculating on the nature of Tenno, saying that the frames are "lightning rods" for our powers.  The implication is that our power is like light, and the frames are focusing apparatuses that allow specific things to be done, and without them our attempts to channel the Void power would be sloppy on a good day.  Think like a wizard's staff or wand, or ask why when you stick a battery in one device it makes it emit light while in another it generates noise. 

 

They are tools, you use a saw on a tree, and an scissors on paper, but the same hand and body controls them. 

 

 

Or in the canon but not the game, for obvious reasons, Tenno actually die when they get killed.  The "Sentients OP" idea only holds water if permadeath is going to be a feature in the future, and we know that Alad V killed a number of Tenno in his experiments.  I also don't see how a prototype frame is more susceptible to, well, death, than a copycat frame. 

 

You're also missing my point about popping out of the cryopod.  If our immortality comes from having backups laying around, how does death before farming up a Rhino not result in death/account wipe?  Obvious gameplay reason, but the lore doesn't seem to support it, much like how you're stuck running an escape mission if you get harvested, rather than busting in with a full kit of functioning gear and extracting your stolen property.

Hmmm. You raise an interesting point there.

Too bad that pretty much our entire discussion - and this whole thread by extension - just doesn't have a definite answer.

[CunoVonRembold]

 

 

The Lore of this game is a mess, simple as that.  You are all putting way too much thought into it.  The "lore" contradicts itself all over the place.  DE don't even know what the Tenno are anymore.

 

They say that the Tenno are the ones that control the powers one minute, that the frame is a conduit.

The next piece of lore says they can use powers outside of the frames (and if this is the case ember should be able to use rhino stomp).

Then they show a warframe with an infested inside it using warframe powers.

 

This is why prime additions don't add lore anymore, they keep contradicting themselves so they stopped trying.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

This is further corroborated by the Rhino Prime Codex which describes an out-of-suit Tenno using abilities like Iron Skin without a Warframe.

 

It's not an out-of-suit Tenno, it's some creature. That's why it can use Rhino Prime's Iron Skin without using a Warframe, because it's not a Tenno. Also why infested Mesa was using Mesa powers and the unknown-controlled Chroma was using Chroma powers, there was something inside them, using the Warframe's powers. Could have been infested Tenno, could be just an infestation, but it wasn't using other powers, just Mesa's, same goes for Chroma.

 

But the RP codex creature is never stated as being Tenno, which is why I believe it wasn't Tenno at all, but rather an infested creature, like Lephantis, created for the Old War.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

All matter is condensed energy.

 

The Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, Infested, DE and you are all condensed energy.

 

Therefore the Tenno are both matter and energy existing at the same time.  There is no conflict between the two positions. 

 

The only issue is -

 

Are the Tenno able to materialise themselves into a solid matter human form and dematerialise into a pure energy form and use their warframes at will.

 

The fact they can move into the void, an alternative dimension which operates outside our energy / matter / universe ( its in the multiverse ) suggest they can move from matter ( our universe ) into energy ( and enter the void ) at will. 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

All matter is condensed energy.

 

 

The fact they can move into the void, an alternative dimension which operates outside our energy / matter / universe ( its in the multiverse ) suggest they can move from matter ( our universe ) into energy ( and enter the void ) at will. 

Actually, all matter is made of star dust.

 

Until it can be proved otherwise, I see the Void as some kind of nebula, with higher-than-usual amounts of radiation. Not an alternate dimension, that's just silly!

[vaugahn]

the lore is a mess and contradicts itself all over the place.

 

Only if you don't bother paying attention to it.

 

If you actually read it, a clear pattern emerges.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

All matter in the universe began in the Big Bang as energy.

 

We can produce matter out of energy.

 

We can turn matter into energy.

 

Stardust, is simply energy condensed into matter.