Kiste - Ceres Bug?

[weezedog]

"At some point we accidentally switched out the code for bombard rockets with the code from nova's antimatter drop...my bad!"

[Jeloxale]

"At some point we accidentally switched out the code for bombard rockets with the code from nova's antimatter drop...my bad!"

My thought after reading last post from Drew. Sometimes things just happen.

[Jeahanne]

I have to post this here just because I know I've run into this bug a lot before and can attest to some of what people are going through.

 

I agree that I think Bombards are the issue here, as I've only had the one-shot down problem happen on maps where these mobs are present. However, I think there's more to this bug than just shooting down the rockets. I've had this happen to me when there are NO enemies around at all, and it doesn't matter how much health/shield/armor you have, you just die. So I think there's more to this than just the rockets being shot down.

[KingTaro]

I've got a repro and am working on a fix. It's related to shooting down rockets so if you can avoid that for now it'll be less of a problem.

This is trully wonderful news!

I'm really glad you managed to track down the issue!

 

 

Do you have the full mission video footage still? Wondering if there's something we can see that occurred earlier that could be a clue.

Sorry, that's where the recording started. I launched fraps when the Bombard started killing me non-stop.

 

Right before the recording, I killed all the enemies around, except for that one Bombard, then got a good distance from the Bombard in an open space, so that we could clearly see the missiles flying, while making sure no other enemies interfere with the testings.

[Amazerath]

I have to post this here just because I know I've run into this bug a lot before and can attest to some of what people are going through.

 

I agree that I think Bombards are the issue here, as I've only had the one-shot down problem happen on maps where these mobs are present. However, I think there's more to this bug than just shooting down the rockets. I've had this happen to me when there are NO enemies around at all, and it doesn't matter how much health/shield/armor you have, you just die. So I think there's more to this than just the rockets being shot down.

 

Right now I think we need to be a little patient. Bugs are not always predictable and we can't tell for sure how the bombard missile bug is affecting other aspects of the game. DE might also discover other bugs while they are working on this one.

 

So we need to wait until the fix goes live. Once that happens we will be able to safely test the game and see if the mysterious deaths are still present. If they are, then new threads will need to be created to let DE know. I don't know if it's a good idea to post more reports here because this thread could already be marked as 'solved'.

[[DE]Saske]

Yes, it is very nice. But please let's not forget about the rest of the folks here who have been looking into this for weeks. They went from "getting instantly killed randomly" to "bombard missiles accumulating damage upon being shot down" by trying different things and posting their findings. This is the kind of effort that helps DE fixing things faster and in my opinion it deserves just as much credit and attention.

 

I think you misunderstood my intention, i have been reading this thread since the beginning, redirecting players and developers here to share their findings and get information. I play-tested with Connor, Danielle and Rebecca multiple times a week reproducing the findings in this thread and trying to figure out what causes this bug. 

I just find it awesome that Glen could figure the bug out so fast with his dev tools and all the groundwork in this thread.

[Amazerath]

I think you misunderstood my intention, i have been reading this thread since the beginning, redirecting players and developers here to share their findings and get information. I play-tested with Connor, Danielle and Rebecca multiple times a week reproducing the findings in this thread and trying to figure out what causes this bug. 

I just find it awesome that Glen could figure the bug out so fast with his dev tools and all the groundwork in this thread.

 

I find it that we often remember to show the developers our appreciation but we don't always show the same appreciation to our fellow players. We all like to be recognized for our efforts but not all of us receive that kind of recognition. I see nothing wrong in trying to amend that, even if only by a little.

 

You intent was not misunderstood. I merely took the liberty of quoting you to extend that "it's awesome!" feeling to everyone involved in the process (developers and players alike). You had the privilege of working directly with the developers and I'm sure they made it clear to you that they appreciate your help. But not all players had that opportunity and yet they also deserve to be thanked. We can't expect the developers to personally thank everyone, but we can at least do that ourselves whenever it is possible.

 

I'm hoping it is clear now that my own intent was not to criticize, but to bring attention to this matter.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

Congratulations to everybody in this thread- been mostly lurking but it looks like I'll have my favorite farming location back soon.

[Djangofett]

 

Said no DE ever. 

 

And this is why we love them.

[4MostlyHarmless2]

I've got a repro and am working on a fix. It's related to shooting down rockets so if you can avoid that for now it'll be less of a problem.

 

YES

 

ALL PRAISE DE

 

MY FAVORITE LEVELING GROUNDS WILL BE FREE FROM THIS TYRANNY ONCE MORE

[Epicagemo]

I've got a repro and am working on a fix. It's related to shooting down rockets so if you can avoid that for now it'll be less of a problem.

Let us play with it a little longer! :D

[4MostlyHarmless2]

Let us play with it a little longer! :D

 

deer lord

[Jeahanne]

deer lord

 

Wouldn't that be Oberon? xD

And sorry if my last post seemed like nagging. I didn't mean it that way, I was just in a hurry when I posted (I had to get to work). I more meant it as informational thing than anything else. I truly appreciate everything everyone has done to help fix this, especially since I'm unable to upload anything I record (my internet upload speed is total crap) and my own experimentation hasn't yielded anything aside from A.) Grineer Bombards are likely involved, and B.) Enemies don't even have to be around for this bug to trigger.

 

Either way, thank you all for helping to get this solved, and if I can help at all let me know. Unfortunately I can't upload recordings so I've no idea how useful I can be.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jeahanne

[Faulcun]

Let us play with it a little longer! :D

 

You'll be my hero if you can break 1 billion.

[Aumaan]

While I'm glad the bug has been identified I don't think shooting the rockets is the only cause (or they're two different bugs).  I've encountered this happening in teams that I seriously doubt are shooting down bombard rockets. I've seen the the objective (and myself) drop instantly from behind electric shields on every entrance to the hubs on Ceres.  I'm also fairly certain I've seen it happen right as one of the rockets hits a shield or the wall right next to the shield.

[[DE]Momaw]

While I'm glad the bug has been identified I don't think shooting the rockets is the only cause (or they're two different bugs).  I've encountered this happening in teams that I seriously doubt are shooting down bombard rockets. I've seen the the objective (and myself) drop instantly from behind electric shields on every entrance to the hubs on Ceres.  I'm also fairly certain I've seen it happen right as one of the rockets hits a shield or the wall right next to the shield.

 

1.) Bombard AOE ignores terrain and volt shield

2.) Part of the bug's mechanics meant that AOE radius on the rockets could stack as well as the damage.

 

Which means if enough rockets were shot down, not even deliberately, you could potentially get one-shotted without even realizing that a Bombard had fired or ever seeing the explosion.

 

Let's wait for Glen's fix to get patched in before we call for a witch hunt on more bugs in the same theme :)

[Aumaan]

1.) Bombard AOE ignores terrain and volt shield

2.) Part of the bug's mechanics meant that AOE radius on the rockets could stack as well as the damage.

 

Which means if enough rockets were shot down, not even deliberately, you could potentially get one-shotted without even realizing that a Bombard had fired or ever seeing the explosion.

 

Let's wait for Glen's fix to get patched in before we call for a witch hunt on more bugs in the same theme :)

 

I'm less asking for a witch hunt and more just pointing out some extra things on this specific topic. If the specific thing Glen is now looking for get's fixed and the bug is not longer there, great; but just in case it doesn't I thought I'd mention it.

 

I know the AOE goes through terrain and the like but I tend to place electric shield in the doorway of those bunkers or just outside the doorway so the console should be outside the range of the explosion.  And again, the chances of the squads I was in shooting down rockets was low and I visibly saw rockets impact walls and my shield, not get destroyed in mid-air.  Unless I misunderstood part of the bug and what is actually happening is that each time a rocket is shot down the next rocket has the destroyed rockets damage and AOE added to it's own until it stacks to ridiculous levels and finally impacts something, which would require a lot of rockets shot down unless there is a stupid degree of multiplication here and would also require not killing the specific bombard the rockets are coming from if I remember correctly.

[KIREEK]

Inb4 "area makes a difference"

Inb4 "bubles and other warframe abilities might have something to do with it"

Inb4 "warframe matters"

Inb4 "it's the balistas"

 

Thanks glen

 

For the players spaming "it's the balistas" when there are none, do pay more attention to videos next time.

[Faulcun]

I'm less asking for a witch hunt and more just pointing out some extra things on this specific topic. If the specific thing Glen is now looking for get's fixed and the bug is not longer there, great; but just in case it doesn't I thought I'd mention it.

 

I know the AOE goes through terrain and the like but I tend to place electric shield in the doorway of those bunkers or just outside the doorway so the console should be outside the range of the explosion.  And again, the chances of the squads I was in shooting down rockets was low and I visibly saw rockets impact walls and my shield, not get destroyed in mid-air.  Unless I misunderstood part of the bug and what is actually happening is that each time a rocket is shot down the next rocket has the destroyed rockets damage and AOE added to it's own until it stacks to ridiculous levels and finally impacts something, which would require a lot of rockets shot down unless there is a stupid degree of multiplication here and would also require not killing the specific bombard the rockets are coming from if I remember correctly.

 

Thats why I asked if when the rockets hit terrain, if its counting that as the rocket being shot down, or uses the same parameters as the rocket being shot down, when its really targeting the player.

[MechaGent]

Thats why I asked if when the rockets hit terrain, if its counting that as the rocket being shot down, or uses the same parameters as the rocket being shot down, when its really targeting the player.

 

I figured that, since sometimes several Bombard missiles are seeking the same target at the same time, perhaps the first missile to explode commits fratricide on the rest, assuming they're close enough.

[Faulcun]

I figured that, since sometimes several Bombard missiles are seeking the same target at the same time, perhaps the first missile to explode commits fratricide on the rest, assuming they're close enough.

 

yep, also possible. Again, that brings into AOE self damage too like a normal ogris. I still dont understand why damage is being dealt to the enemy when rockets are shot down in the first place.

[MechaGent]

yep, also possible. Again, that brings into AOE self damage too like a normal ogris. I still dont understand why damage is being dealt to the enemy when rockets are shot down in the first place.

 

My best guess would be because you're exploding the missile, thereby claiming dominance on it. Or, to make a weird analogy, like this:

 

[Amazerath]

My best guess would be because you're exploding the missile, thereby claiming dominance on it. Or, to make a weird analogy, like this:

 

Glen used the word "recycled" to describe what happens to a missile when it's shot down. I suppose that means each time you destroy a missile it acts like a multiplier that buffs the next one fired. The more you destroy, the higher the numbers stack. That's my assumption.

 

Another assumption is that shooting missiles is probably not the only way to destroy them. It's possible that certain warframe powers are also capable of doing that. Glen mentioned Miasma as a possibility. I would also like to point out that some powers (Snow Globe, Absorb) will "destroy" any projectile that touches them. For example, if the game does not understand that a Snow Globe is basically a wall then Snow Globes could be potentially "shooting down" missiles and triggering the bug. Again, these are just assumptions. But they offer some possible answers to some of the lingering doubts.

[MechaGent]

Glen used the word "recycled" to describe what happens to a missile when it's shot down. I suppose that means each time you destroy a missile it acts like a multiplier that buffs the next one fired. The more you destroy, the higher the numbers stack. That's my assumption.

 

Another assumption is that shooting missiles is probably not the only way to destroy them. It's possible that certain warframe powers are also capable of doing that. Glen mentioned Miasma as a possibility. I would also like to point out that some powers (Snow Globe, Absorb) will "destroy" any projectile that touches them. For example, if the game does not understand that a Snow Globe is basically a wall then Snow Globes could be potentially "shooting down" missiles and triggering the bug. Again, these are just assumptions. But they offer some possible answers to some of the lingering doubts.

 

    From the context in which it was used, I think the "recycling" action is a normal part of gameplay (probably for some sort of optimization, I don't have enough experience in that area of computer science to know why though), and what was going wrong was that the damage "payload" of a destroyed missile wasn't being reset to zero during the recycling process, so if the payload is loaded into a missile via addition operations (which seems likely, given the apparent nature of this bug), then the damage would become DamageOld + DamageNew. This is all just me sharing my showertheory, though, I make absolutely no claim that this is in any way correct.

    In regards to your second paragraph, I hadn't thought of it like that in regards to Snow Globe, but it certainly seems plausible! In any case, I'm glad this got fixed in today's hotfix. All Glory to the DevTeam!

[KingTaro]

Awesome, seems like the bug has been fixed: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/490942-hotfix-16115/