I Really Don't Understand Why Players Want To Preserve The Current Star Chart...

[DJ_Redwire]

As mentioned in the numerous other previous threads, I personally have seen very few people on the side of the fence that believe 'the starchart is fine and needs no change whatsoever.' I would go so far as to say that the majority of the community at large recognizes a problem with it at some level, regardless of what type of issue that is, or whether it affects them or bothers them in any way or not.

 

With all that in mind then, it's clear the only dissent present is that of how much and in what way the issue should be fixed - or sometimes even what the actual issue is. All of these opinions vary from player to player because everyone's experience with the startchart, which is the gateway into the game that everyone must travel through, is different, and thus controversy is sparked. Are there two many nodes? Or is there not enough rewards for all those nodes? Are rewards even a factor in this discussion? Or are they the most important factor? Is progression the problem with the starchart? Or is world building the problem? Is RNG a positive influence that promotes varied gameplay to keep things interesting? Or is RNG a handicap that causes frustration and diminishes player engagement?

 

I could keep going for hours and hours - but the point is this. I hate generalizing large groups of people that I have neither heard nor met, but in my opinion it is decidedly safe to say that very VERY few people believe there is nothing wrong with the starchart and everything is totally fine, and I think we really need to start approaching the discussion with that in mind more.

Edited June 5, 2015 by DJ_Redwire

[trst]

Short simple answer. Whiny farmers don't want to lose their precious Draco.

The only thing this has to do with Draco is what Draco itself is: an efficient farming node.

 

If we suddently lose all option of what we want to run then we can no longer farm efficiently which is all that some players have time for.

 

DE needs to leave us enough options to find the new 'Draco' or go in and finally fix how bad drop RNG can get and fix Affinity.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Must have. Price of having a day job, I guess. Did they also provide details on how they're going to have random mission nodes without RNG? Got a timecode?

 

My skepticism stands. Nice as I think they are, these are the same people who have been talking about reducing RNG for a long time and have yet to start that process in any worthwhile way.

The main points were A) nothing is set in stone, and B) they want the community to share their ideas on how to fix the star chart.  I promise you Devs will skip over a thousand I DON"T WANT X posts and only pay atteniton to HEY X IS NO GOOD WHAT ABOUT Z. 

[Hypernaut1]

If it wasn't for rng, this game would last all of 20hrs max.

Rng isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It blesses you (mesa in 3 runs), and sometimes you just get hard luck( no loki chasis).

DE is working towards less RNG rewards (syndicates, events, BPs), but the game can't realistically work without it. The game is based on grind and RNG. You've played it for 1000 hrs because of it and it is fine tuned to be rewarding even if you don't realize it.

RNG on the star chart should only be there to give us more variety, not lock away content.

Again, they said we should be able to go after what we went at all times- a point people seem to keep ignoring. It's NOT going to be a "no chance to get neurodes today" rng system. More like a "this node provides the most affinity that's not Draco" system. It's going to give us much needed variety, not take it away.

What we have now is very static and stagnant.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Stratego89]

The only thing this has to do with Draco is what Draco itself is: an efficient farming node.

 

If we suddently lose all option of what we want to run then we can no longer farm efficiently which is all that some players have time for.

 

DE needs to leave us enough options to find the new 'Draco' or go in and finally fix how bad drop RNG can get and fix Affinity.

No, what DE needs to do is what they said, with randomized nodes that change. "Leave us enough options to find the new 'Draco' ". Absolutely not. That is the OPPOSITE of what needs to be done. Doing what they suggested would ELIMINATE THE EXISTENCE OF FARMS.

[Stratego89]

Contrary to popular belief, Warframe doesn't revolve around Draco.

Based on what experience? Go in game, sit in recruit chat for 5 min. Come back here, and tell me what you just said doesn't sound ridiculous after what you see there.

[7Lions]

Star chart is empty because everyone is in the void, leaving the star chart void of players

Edited June 5, 2015 by 7Lions

[RoboDoge]

If it wasn't for rng, this game would last all of 20hrs max.

Rng isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It blesses you (mesa in 3 runs), and sometimes you just get hard luck( no loki chasis).

DE is working towards less RNG rewards (syndicates, events, BPs), but the game can't realistically work without it. The game is based on grind and RNG. You've played it for 1000 hrs because of it and it is fine tuned to be rewarding even if you don't realize it.

RNG on the star chart should only be there to give us more variety, not lock away content.

Again, they said we should be able to go after what we went at all times- a point people seem to keep ignoring. It's NOT going to be a "no chance to get neurodes today" rng system. More like a "this node provides the most affinity that's not Draco" system. It's going to give us much needed variety, not take it away.

What we have now is very static and stagnant.

And then you have Void rotations, specific resources drop rates, Archwing parts etc.

 

 

Less RNG rewards.

[Hypernaut1]

And then you have Void rotations, specific resources drop rates, Archwing parts etc.

 

 

Less RNG rewards.

Thats the game. Its always been the game. Would you rather they made you kill 5,000 grineer for every prime part? Its either RNG, or a loooong grind. Even with RNG, i have most of everything i want, i really dont see the problem with it. Some things took a week to get, some took a month, some i just bought with plat that i traded other high valued items for.

 

still, that has nothing to do with the horrible stagnant  star chart we have now. There is no less RNG with what we have now., I can do a defense and still yield nothing.

[yangskiii]

they're the developers.  they can make the decisions themselves if they want to.  as long as they really think this one out.... it doesn't seem to work well in my mind, but then again, I'm probably not thinking of every possible angle as they are on the developer level :)

Not saying they can't or that they shouldn't. All i'm saying is even at this moment where nothing is concrete about what changes will take, people have been in an uproar, imagine the chaos in here when they implement a sudden change. 

I wouldn't want them to complete a work on something that would go unappreciated. And I'm sure you wouldn't want that to happen to you either.

And what's best is if we, as the community, feel that we matter to the developers and their continuous pursuance to the betterment of this game. 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

As mentioned in the numerous other previous threads, I personally have seen very few people on the side of the fence that believe 'the starchart is fine and needs no change whatsoever.' I would go so far as to say that the majority of the community at large recognizes a problem with it at some level, regardless of what type of issue that is, or whether it affects them or bothers them in any way or not.

 

With all that in mind then, it's clear the only dissent present is that of how much and in what way the issue should be fixed - or sometimes even what the actual issue is. All of these opinions vary from player to player because everyone's experience with the startchart, which is the gateway into the game that everyone must travel through, is different, and thus controversy is sparked. Are there two many nodes? Or is there not enough rewards for all those nodes? Are rewards even a factor in this discussion? Or are they the most important factor? Is progression the problem with the starchart? Or is world building the problem? Is RNG a positive influence that promotes varied gameplay to keep things interesting? Or is RNG a handicap that causes frustration and diminishes player engagement?

 

I could keep going for hours and hours - but the point is this. I hate generalizing large groups of people that I have neither heard nor met, but in my opinion it is decidedly safe to say that very VERY few people believe there is nothing wrong with the starchart and everything is totally fine, and I think we really need to start approaching the discussion with that in mind more.

 

There are problems with the star chart and void, but demolishing them is far from the best solution. The star chart should evolve, not be replaced. One of the most common complaints about the current star chart is a lack of progression on each planet. I agree. I think the previous web layout gave a clearer path for players to take (and I hate all these damned nav segments). Star Chart 1 was confusing to navigate and it was a random scattering of missions with little direction. I cleared the entire thing, but it was still struggling through one planet and then facerolling the next because it was some side-branch of the solar system I skipped before.

 

It needs the clarity of the new star chart with the structure of the old. Maybe more than both of those things, it needs a motivation to move through it. There really isn't a driving plot for Warframe. The problem I see with removing all those unplayed nodes is that then there isn't a map on which to path out the game. You lose the place to tell the story they should be adding. Empty nodes don't come with a price, but removing them really does.

 

Once it's been cleared, the main reasons to play the star chart are resources and void keys. Not all the mission types are good for those. There are rare containers, but those aren't reliable enough. If I need X, and a node that can get me X in a reasonable investment of time isn't available, then desire to play drops. PS4 just got an update. I happened to have four-plus argon sitting around, a clanmate did not. We did a void mission and he got just one argon. He needs twice that to build a new weapon and twice that to build both. As I mentioned in another comment, certain mission types are just not good for meeting that goal. Fun is spoiled by the lingering frustration of not being able to start this new thing, even if the gameplay you like is still there. That is probably the central issue with RNG in general.

 

A much smaller number of random missions (even if they somehow don't involve RNG) aren't going to solve those problems, and they aren't going to make people switch from "friends only" to "public".

Edited June 5, 2015 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[PookieNumnums]

Because we clenched our cheeks and grinded it out

You should have to as well

Besides that... Mastery

[MagPrime]

Based on what experience? Go in game, sit in recruit chat for 5 min. Come back here, and tell me what you just said doesn't sound ridiculous after what you see there.

What you see in Recruiting would be "popular belief"

[TARINunit9]

People want the current star chart because it's their comfort zone, and that's not a bad thing in and of itself

 

The REAL problem with the current star chart, the reason we have 300 empty nodes, is that too few rewards are spread too thin

[Latronico]

Based on what experience? Go in game, sit in recruit chat for 5 min. Come back here, and tell me what you just said doesn't sound ridiculous after what you see there.

 

I think you're the one who should 'go in game and si in recruit chat for 5 minutes'. Because what I see is a lot of 'H Tn def', 'H vault runs', 'H trial' and so on and a very very low of Draco ones, generally leechers. 

And however that's means nothing. The game doesn't orbit around recruit chart. A lot of people play solo, a lot of people don't even use that chat and recruit player in clan or alliance chats. 

[Valiant]

People want the current star chart because it's their comfort zone, and that's not a bad thing in and of itself

 

The REAL problem with the current star chart, the reason we have 300 empty nodes, is that too few rewards are spread too thin

And there's no real feel of a journey or progression. The last star system wasn't much but it did provide that atmosphere to a degree.

[MagPrime]

People want the current star chart because it's their comfort zone, and that's not a bad thing in and of itself

 

The REAL problem with the current star chart, the reason we have 300 empty nodes, is that too few rewards are spread too thin

And all the missions are cookie-cut-outs of eachother, just different planets and factions.

 

I think multi-objective missions would help more than anything else.  Go in for a Capture, find out there's a VIP there that needs rescuing as well.  Go in for an Exterminate, turns out it's a trap and now we have a Survival, etc.

 

 

And there's no real feel of a journey or progression. The last star system wasn't much but it did provide that atmosphere to a degree.

 

And it was easier to figure out where you needed to go to open up another planet/node.  

Edited June 5, 2015 by Noamuth

[TARINunit9]

And there's no real feel of a journey or progression. The last star system wasn't much but it did provide that atmosphere to a degree.

I kinda got that feel of a journey and progression, if only because I refused to just ask recruiting for free taxis to each and every boss like some players I've seen

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

 

And all the missions are cookie-cut-outs of eachother, just different planets and factions.

 

I think multi-objective missions would help more than anything else.  Go in for a Capture, find out there's a VIP there that needs rescuing as well.  Go in for an Exterminate, turns out it's a trap and now we have a Survival, etc.

 

 

 

And it was easier to figure out where you needed to go to open up another planet/node.  

 

 

That will make picking appropriate gear and frame mods difficult, but it's not all bad. I think a "defense wave" approach could be good.

 

Tenno, you've captured the VIPs, but we've located a hostage. Can you get them?

> select continue mission or extract

If you choose to extract, you still must make it to the extraction room.

 

These can go on progressively or increase in difficulty.

[MagPrime]

That will make picking appropriate gear and frame mods difficult, but it's not all bad. I think a "defense wave" approach could be good.

 

Tenno, you've captured the VIPs, but we've located a hostage. Can you get them?

> select continue mission or extract

If you choose to extract, you still must make it to the extraction room.

 

These can go on progressively or increase in difficulty.

I like it!

 

But put the second mission on rotation, so it's not always the same.  Not all mission types mind you, just something that would be logical in the situation.

 

>Capture the VIP but during his attempt he broke the LS/Window and now you can either fight your way out through a vacuum or do a Survival

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

I like it!

 

But put the second mission on rotation, so it's not always the same.  Not all mission types mind you, just something that would be logical in the situation.

 

>Capture the VIP but during his attempt he broke the LS/Window and now you can either fight your way out through a vacuum or do a Survival

 

Yeah, that was the idea. The following mission can be anything. And if there were faction-specific or planet-specific rewards for mission types that stacked, there would be drive to push on, but you could consider yourself equipped entirely wrong for it and just skip out without a penalty.

 

I wouldn't want to see them on a void-like AABC rotation, because I'm not sure that's appropriate for the star chart, but you could come out of any given mission with 10 extra cores or a guaranteed rare resource pack, or Lotus could radio you and say she located a reinforced container and mark it on the map or something. It could reduce the grind while adding a reason to play those extra nodes instead of simply killing them off.

[MagPrime]

Yeah, that was the idea. The following mission can be anything. And if there were faction-specific or planet-specific rewards for mission types that stacked, there would be drive to push on, but you could consider yourself equipped entirely wrong for it and just skip out without a penalty.

 

I wouldn't want to see them on a void-like AABC rotation, because I'm not sure that's appropriate for the star chart, but you could come out of any given mission with 10 extra cores or a guaranteed rare resource pack, or Lotus could radio you and say she located a reinforced container and mark it on the map or something. It could reduce the grind while adding a reason to play those extra nodes instead of simply killing them off.

That's a great idea.

[Hypernaut1]

Yeah, that was the idea. The following mission can be anything. And if there were faction-specific or planet-specific rewards for mission types that stacked, there would be drive to push on, but you could consider yourself equipped entirely wrong for it and just skip out without a penalty.

 

I wouldn't want to see them on a void-like AABC rotation, because I'm not sure that's appropriate for the star chart, but you could come out of any given mission with 10 extra cores or a guaranteed rare resource pack, or Lotus could radio you and say she located a reinforced container and mark it on the map or something. It could reduce the grind while adding a reason to play those extra nodes instead of simply killing them off.

That sounds great, but I think technically it may not be and ready feat. I heard then say they wanted me missions to change mid-way, but could only get the exterminate transition down right.

[Djangofett]

I don't want to keep the current star chart, but I'm very wary of the current proposed changes.

RNG stacked on RNG stacked on RNG is about the time things get excessive. (Mission Types rotated, map/enemy faction, level and specific enemy).

Besides, I think a rework is needed.

The drops are not based on RNG. That's a +

Edited June 5, 2015 by -OP-Skretax

[VampirePirate]

Hopefully this star chart rework will broaden the scope of places where we go when we need things like resources/affinity/parts. i like choice, but i dont find it engaging to randomly select missions with no rhyme or reason. I like choice, so i dont like pretty much being forced to play at all of the popular farm spots. This current star chart becomes very dull once you complete it and you have a majority of alert rewards.

Having only 20 nodes is not "broadening the scope".

 

In these sentences here, it seems you are uncertain about the starchart.  Are you for it or against it?

 

I personally think that the current starchart is fine, but it need to be better.  It needs to be more interactive rather than a circle of spheres.  It should be more like what you would see on science fiction movies or television shows.   I think what would really be awesome is if space was an open-world sandbox where I can manually fly to whatever planet or asteroid I want, drop off my warframe at whatever locations are available on the planet's surface in real-time.  Then we can go from there.  A good example is the game Mass Effect 1.

 

This would make things more interesting and even give reason to visiting the many nodes we have now.