The New Utility Mod Slot, It's Actually Backwards Thinking And A Band Aid Solution

[7grims]

There are quite sufficient "hard choices" with the 8 slots we have, in terms of min-maxing vis-a-vis the Frame abilities.  There are very few slam-dunk builds for any frame, there are definite pros and cons, sacrifices and gains, and numerous possible effective builds with every frame.

 

Yah, thats truly a thing, nowadays I see frame builds as an easy puzzle.

I test out how or what the abilities do.

Make a choice which skill/s I want to use.

I see were the frame as weak-points or what is worth improving.

 

And bam, quickly i can decide on the few 10-15 mods that I always use which are the ones for that frame.

In a simple view of it, some use the continuity build, other the range build, others the strength build, and others skim and mix up some of these generic builds.

 

Meanwhile all the other 95% of the mods never gets used, and my eye is trained to not even look at them "sorry guys, but the mini-bus is full, I can only bring the rockstars"

[ChameleonDude]

One step backwards, but possibly a step in the right direction. Still, we need a complete game rebalance before we can make the mod system what it should be.

[7grims]

Currently we have the choice of element types but even that is usually just considered for what will do most damage (while any who mention the various status effects get laughed at).

 

Since all dual stat element mods came out, I use them all, all the time, few guns i own that dont have the full set, but those are only for special weapons who focus on crits or desperately need any other kind of improvement.

Its a wacky build, but since im too lazy and smart enough to not ignore meta, all the build diversity is dead.

 

Sadly even if they remove serration, multishot, heavy-call, those dual stat element mods, still occupy 4 of the 8 slots.

But I aint gonna burn myself stating they need to be removed also, the mod system is too much complex and also delicate.

[DrMarlboro]

what needs to happen is they need to make those 500000 other mods viable, or give us situations where we may need to use them. because pretty much, if it doesnt directly effect one of my abilities, i dont equip it. sad to say, but its true. and since there are no roles (think tank, healz, and dps or something similar) theres rarely a need for me to add in "utility" mods to better effect how my frame performs that role. its pretty much do i need efficiency, power strength, duration, range, or a combination? if it doesnt affect one of those things, i cant bring it and its upsetting when i see so many mods that i think would be fun to use, but dont increase what my abilities do unfortunately. 

 

which is why i support the utility slot. now i have a slot specifically for one of those mods. not a perfect system, but until they rework the mods thats about as close to true customization we are going to get.

Edited July 25, 2015 by DrMarlboro

[7grims]

The more i think about it, the better i feel about the utility slot. Truth is utility mods can not compete with stat mods unless they gave ridiculous advantages. DE needed to create a system for utility mods to compete amongt themselves. This actually gives us more choices to make now, which is good in my eyes. I hope DE still decided to make more enticing utility mods though, because right now its just a choice between handsrpring or Rush.

 

If they remove all essential mods, we only have left are the utility mods, there wouldn't be any competition.

How will DE replace, compensate, balance everything, that's another issue I wont burn my hands in :P

 

And as far as interesting mods, yah, after the removal of essential mods, I bet ppl would still obsess about what is most optimal in the beginning, but in the same way, DE would also create new stuff that hasn't even been thought, because of this limited suffocating system.

[Pendragon1951]

@7grims the utility slot according to the devstream looks to be only for the Warframe not weapons so the utility slot has nothing to do with solving the "Serration Problematic" IMHO I think it benefits the Warframe by expending the choices of loadouts you can build by saving you at least having to do forma to add a new sign to.

[mrhat.lf]

We could have had a slot of Augments (which is more useful) but we got these Utility Slots which are only useful if you do nothing but Forma your frame.

[Ziegrif]

Gotta agree.

X % more dmg is just boring and should just be linked to weapon levels.

[ArbitUHM]

Having played PvP where all the stat increasing mods are not allowed i.e. no Vitality, Stretch, Intensify, etc., I can say that only being able to equip utility mods does not lead to some sort of freedom-of-choice modding heaven. You just end up dumping on the shield regen mod, the stamina mods, anti-knockback mods, then whatever ridiculous crap is left over (maglev, etc.).

[7grims]

@7grims the utility slot according to the devstream looks to be only for the Warframe not weapons so the utility slot has nothing to do with solving the "Serration Problematic" IMHO I think it benefits the Warframe by expending the choices of loadouts you can build by saving you at least having to do forma to add a new sign to.

 

Im the one connecting the new slot to the problematic, because I explained how it is connected.

And if you think the serration problem is serration only and only for weapons, then you dont get the serration problem at all, and how serration is a symbol of allot of mods that introduce the same problem, mandatory use in your build or no middle and high content for you, and also restricts players choice.

[7grims]

Having played PvP where all the stat increasing mods are not allowed i.e. no Vitality, Stretch, Intensify, etc., I can say that only being able to equip utility mods does not lead to some sort of freedom-of-choice modding heaven. You just end up dumping on the shield regen mod, the stamina mods, anti-knockback mods, then whatever ridiculous crap is left over (maglev, etc.).

 

True, but they dont put many mods for pvp anyway, there is allot of stuff that isnt serration or serration alike but isn't in pvp yet, nor it would radically break pvp.

On the meanwhile they are making thousands of pvp exclusive mods, non of those increase base stats for health/shields or dps.

That is "all" the player choice missing in the current pve system, and you never get compromised on meta, cause there is no redirection/vitality/serration/etc mods that you would obviously equip if they existed.

 

Actually thanks for pointing out that pvp is an example of a proper modding system, wow, much thanks.

Edited July 25, 2015 by 7grims

[Lost_Cartographer]

We have seen DE:

 

We have seen various warframe 2.0's

Melee 2.0

even a complete change on how Damage works from the old system of armour ignore or GTFO

To add onto the list a complete revamp of Parkour.

 

 

To say that affecting the modding system will be like "rehasing the whole game" doesn't make sense as every major 2.0 fundementally changes the game, melee 2.0, damage 2.0 and now parkour 2.0 changed the way people play the game.

 

 

Mod 2.0 will not be any different, will it be tough? Yes. But that hasn't stopped them in the past.

 

 

I both Agree and Disagree with OP. I gladly believe we  needed special mod slot for utilitarian purposes so i gladly welcome the extra slot. However, i do agree that at this current time it is a bandaid.

 

70% of utility mods are either useless, take up too much mod space or are to underpowered to warrant use.

 

 

Mods which affect abilities such as efficiency, range and power strength need to be changed from the current modding system. They are like serration, you will need them and because of that builds nromally cannot fit space for other mods. And even if you did move them, you would need to buff a variety of other mods effect to warrant usage. for such massive mmod cost, Masterthief is horrible and the kubrow version is much better, as an example.

None of those changed to core system that has been in place since the beginning: vertical power creep.

 

EVERYTHING with numbers attached to it will have to get touched.

 

Or I guess DE could just cap enemy levels at 15-20 as they nerf serration and the like into the ground?

[ArbitUHM]

True, but they dont put many mods for pvp anyway, there is allot of stuff that isnt serration or serration alike but isn't in pvp yet, nor it would radically break pvp.

On the meanwhile they are making thousands of pvp exclusive mods, non of those increase base stats for health/shields or dps.

That is "all" the player choice missing in the current pve system, and you never get compromised on meta, cause there is no redirection/vitality/serration/etc mods that you would obviously equip if they existed.

 

Actually thanks for pointing out that pvp is an example of a proper modding system, wow, much thanks.

Except most of those "thousands" of PvP mods aren't really that interesting and only offer marginal differences in your build. Like I said, I mostly just hit the essentials (anti-knockback, shield regen, stamina mods) and then throw on random crap [disclaimer - it's been a while since I've played PvP]. The PvE system actually forces you to make some interesting decisions, like trading out range for a bit more power strength, Stretch for a durability mod, etc., and allow for greater variations in builds. Although, I do agree that mod space gets a little too tight, which is in large part due to how ridiculously powerful and virtually necessary some of the Corrupted mods are IMHO. PvP is certainly more balanced, but in some ways less interesting.

Edited July 25, 2015 by ArbitUHM

[MakubeX]

making a Talent System would be a good thing add handspring and such other mods as talents that can be acquired by frames in certain ways.

Edited July 26, 2015 by MakubeX

[7grims]

Except most of those "thousands" of PvP mods aren't really that interesting and only offer marginal differences in your build. Like I said, I mostly just hit the essentials (anti-knockback, shield regen, stamina mods) and then throw on random crap [disclaimer - it's been a while since I've played PvP]. The PvE system actually forces you to make some interesting decisions, like trading out range for a bit more power strength, Stretch for a durability mod, etc., and allow for greater variations in builds. Although, I do agree that mod space gets a little too tight, which is in large part due to how ridiculously powerful and virtually necessary some of the Corrupted mods are IMHO. PvP is certainly more balanced, but in some ways less interesting.

 

Still, the pvp team as kept the original concept of the mod system, creating player choice and diversity, although they only did it to conserve balance and fairness.

If pvp is less interesting, get assured its not because of the mod system, since this is the 3rd iteration of pvp, and the others were way worse and unreasonable, because power creep was killing the fun for the majority.

[Buzkyl]

None of those changed to core system that has been in place since the beginning: vertical power creep.

 

EVERYTHING with numbers attached to it will have to get touched.

 

Or I guess DE could just cap enemy levels at 15-20 as they nerf serration and the like into the ground?

 

 

There's no reason to nerf anything, with damage 2.0 enemy level was already condensed. With the old level 100 enemies being our new 40.

 

 

You imply as they mountain of work they have to do will deter them, DE has never shyed away from a challenge. Scott has spoke about on streams about making DPS frames such as ember scale into higher levels (i.e raids). It's very likely that DE might be in the process of doing something along the lines, After the starchart rework we are hving fewer and fewer parts of our core gameplay to be "2.0'd" It will be adressed eventually.

[Stoner]

If find the current mod system alright. Not perfect, it need some changes, yes.

 

I just came with an idea; What if they separated mods in 3 categories? Attack, Defense and another(utility, mobility?). Each category would have 3 or 4 slots each. For example, i want to put intensify, blind rage and streamline. I would not be able to put another attack mod like continuity.

 

Or they could do something like 4 attack slots, 3 defense and 2 utility. 

[7grims]

making a Talent System would be a good thing add handspring and such other mods as talents that can be acquired by frames in certain ways.

 

Logic and simple, much yes.

There could be great benefits for warframe to actually have 2 systems, one for the mandatory essential-mods-that-are-stats-upgrades, and another for the utility mods.

Which one should inherent the mod system, and which should become a tree system (or something else), can be decided later.

[Jinryusai]

Instead of just complaining draw up an actual system that would accomplish what you are wanting that wont break the gameplay. Be productive in your ranting!

And then all that work is for naught as the devs continue to do whatever they want :)

[Chroia]

The great idea of the mod system, was to offer players choice, diversity, and customizable playing styles.

The current mod system, is a basic stats upgrader, were you only equip mandatory and essential mods, to enhance all the basic stats that are needed for quality of playing, surviving, and dps.

 

The new utility mod slot, should actually be all the mod slots, because that is the concept of the mod system.

Or else we dont need a mod system, and a upgrade skill tree would have suffice.

 

<snip>

 

Augment mods are also the only true mods (modifiers), these are the only ones that actually change how you play and how you choose to face a battle field, but they become non-usable, since if you don't occupy all your slots with basic dps and resistance mods you cant fight/live long enough to even use your enhanced powers.

 

So, these "serration" mods, are 5% of the mods ever used all the time, making all the rest of the 95% useless, and never equipped for lack of slots.

So why does DE releases so many mods? If there is no other choice but to use the fundamental ones.

Why was the skill tree system replaced by a mod system? If mandatory stat upgrading mods clashes against players choice and diversity.

Yup.

The mod system is supposed to (and occasionally does) allow for choice.

When certain mods are mandatory, make-or-break, something's gone wrong.

And when 6+ of your slots are occupied by said mandatory mods...

Edited July 26, 2015 by Chroia

[7grims]

And then all that work is for naught as the devs continue to do whatever they want :)

 

And that's why I didn't include suggestions in this tread, cause ur right, the devs do whatever they want, and also cause no one gives a sh*t about players ideas, the ideia/solution presentation treads are mostly ppl bashing on the OP, making little of him for not conceiving the ultimate 100% perfect solution with no loop holes, how does he dare presenting a solution that doesn't solve all the world problems.

Edited July 26, 2015 by 7grims

[Orcot]

If you don't have anything to contribute in fixing the problem than you're just complaining, which doesn't help.

 

DE is at least trying, they've been making new mods that adjust different stats than the usual +damage and these new Utility Slots will help diversifying builds and since some old mods are being converted into Utility Mods this will hopefully make unused/less popular mods into use.

[Thelonious]

Personally, I think they should remove the ability to stack mods increasing the same stat: you can only have one Power strength mod, one Power range mod, one Duration, etc.

 

That'd free up some slots for more utility, and at the same time decrease the power cap (which is huuuuuuuge atm): No more extreme min/maxing builds around one particular stat...

Buuuuuuuut, most of the community would see that as a huge nerf.

It would take courage from DE to implement something like that, finally realizing that maybe, abilities that cover an entire room, or abilitites that last for a whole minute (and cover an entire room), or having ultimates costing one single energy orb, and whatever else min/maxing allows today, is a bit too much and isn't that great for the game...

 

 

However, you could then imagine balancing the different types of mods with each other: Prime mods would be straight upgrades over normal mods, while Corrupted would be much more of a situational sidegrade.

 

Example: you can have Barrel Diffusion or Lethal torrent equipped, but not both. Depending on the weapon you're using, each would be a better choice than the other, such as lethal torrent being arguably better for low fire rate weapons.

But the choice is yours, you might prefer having a higher damage per bullet than firing faster.

 

Of course that would require a bit of tweaking, some of the corrupted and dual-stat mods are designed to be stacked with each other.

Like Critical delay (+crit/-fire rate), which is one the most unused mods, could be buffed to give more critical chance than Point Strike for a trade off in fire rate, ergo sacrificing dps for more burst damage.

 

But you know, one can dream.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Thelonious

[Buzkyl]

If you don't have anything to contribute in fixing the problem than you're just complaining, which doesn't help.

 

DE is at least trying, they've been making new mods that adjust different stats than the usual +damage and these new Utility Slots will help diversifying builds and since some old mods are being converted into Utility Mods this will hopefully make unused/less popular mods into use.

 

Actually he's providing valid and respectful feedback on an issue, That alone is contributing more than what you've just said. Complaints are feedback and like all feedback should be heard.

 

And like the the OP said, while the slots are nice they are but a band-aid fix for a much larger issue, the massive amounts of "mandatory" mods.

[7grims]

If you don't have anything to contribute in fixing the problem than you're just complaining, which doesn't help.

 

DE is at least trying, they've been making new mods that adjust different stats than the usual +damage and these new Utility Slots will help diversifying builds and since some old mods are being converted into Utility Mods this will hopefully make unused/less popular mods into use.

 

Nah, even if I suggested the ultimate solution, ppl would just come here to say no, say its terrible, and state I'm complaining either way.

I feel its much more important to actually force the community and DE to talk about these problems, then pretending we are finding solutions, and pretending we are being heard by DE.