Can We Talk About Warframe "genders" Idea?

[TheFatDrake]

Everything you said could be valid but this part most definitely isn't. That would mean anyone could use a Warframe. Those people in the relay are normal humans and we are people with Void energy.

 

Yeah, my fifth point of more vague than anything.

[SteelShrike]

I don't care what our bodies are or whether we have naughty bits at all.  I'm not fooling around with any of you people.

[-Ozymandias-]

I don't care what our bodies are or whether we have naughty bits at all.  I'm not fooling around with any of you people.

k

[MagPrime]

I don't care what our bodies are or whether we have naughty bits at all.  I'm not fooling around with any of you people.

Tease.

[(PSN)batman200087]

In light of the NYCC Warframe panel, I came across a post that raised my eyebrows.

A user was there and posted this rundown. In the form of a screenshot thought, I typed it. Not my post.:

"Also they said Ordis is shady and can't be trusted"

"And about his relationship to The Lotus and teased there might be something shady going on with the whole thing"

Could Ordis have been lying about mono Tenno? Or is there something darker?

I have no idea. Make will of this in your own way

Edited October 11, 2015 by (PS4)batman200087

[UrielColtan]

Really? It pretty much ruins _all_ story progression, because we, as players, have no avatar.

 

Stalker annoyed with you... ooops no sorry that was the Tenno-welded-into-Rhino-Prime that took down Phorid not the current Tenno-welded-into-Frost that you're using.

 

Want to buy a Syndicate weapon? Oh I'm sorry that was a bunch of other Tenno-welded-into-Warframes that helped out those syndicates.

 

There is literally no way to make any story in this game with multiple-Tenno-per-player. it would be like LoL, just a stable of "champions" with one fixed story per character that is nothing to do with the player.

 

It would suck!

 

And Ordis's existence in each player's Liset desite being the last existing one of his type, and his saying the exact same thing to you as it does other players in the game, doesn't ruin story progression?

Please, how long have you been playing games? This doesn't ruin story progresssion, it merely ruins meticulous tasks of logging out to log in as some other username or having to get multiple of the same items and arsenal you had on your original frame. The Stalker example is poor, he hates all Tenno and shows up in missions, whether he is after you or someone else in your squad, he is also a gameplay nuisance more than anything doing with story progression. The codex behind him revolves around getting revenge on all Tenno, regardless of any current bosses you kill, and the Second Sleep will also involve him, which again, is going to happen whether you kill any bosses between that time or not.

 

Syndicates  are basically the same, they are more gameplay obstacles than anything doing with story progression. At base storywise, they merely serve to further convey the existence of more people and factions in the galaxy other than Grineer and Corpus.

Edited October 11, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Prany]

And when I talk about the "energy/soul theory" I NEVER talk about it like "the Void turned us completely into that", rather I see it as the Void split out Soul and our Body, much with what we see with Void Vor, an energy core, a Soul, inhabiting a body. When we came back from the Void we still had a body we were inhabiting, our original body, the bodies Kaleen interacted with and was burned by Void energy by trying to do so, but during Orokin experimentation (the Rhino Prime Codex notably) it was found by them that our souls could move out of our original bodies and into other suitable hosts - in that case, Technocyte-infested monsters, ones that later would be dubbed the Warframes - and in doing so we took with us the Void energies we had.

 

So they built the frames around us like that, used those as our new bodies... And, as our original human bodies were of no use to the, they most likely discarded them. I like the tragedy of that idea, the dehumanization it brings to the Tenno in contrast to the power it brings.

 

 

Now, I have discussed this with you, I know you don't have convincing arguments, but, you know what, humor me - tell me line of thought you had to come to this hypotheses.

 

But when I talk about "physical repercussions" for the Tenno I DON'T JUST MEAN "they're ugly", I mean there is something about the Tenno physically now that has some strong negative aspects. Could it be deformation?  Could it be lack of a body entirely?  Could it just be that we exude SO much Void energy naturally now that we hurt anyone that gets too close, causing the Warframes to be necessary to allow our interaction with normal people?

It's the latter one, if EmberP's codex is any indication. Doesn't exclude other options (thou Kaleen made no mention of it, so I'd say it's lesser likehood), but being walking time bomb with incomprihensible energies and likely psychological trauma in tow already qualifies as twisted in my book.

 

ANY of those would be acceptable, in my eyes. If you give powers, you have to give drawbacks to maintain the balance within the character. Otherwise you end up with overpowered Mary Sues.

Are you one of those people who parrot about Mary Sues without having much understanding about this trope?

 

But you really haven't made grand assumption that the Warframes are Technocyte yet? Have you?

Fixed that for you. Maybe you'd like to humor me more and tell your Warframes=Technocyte theory?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Prany

[Morec0]

Are you one of those people who parrot about Mary Sues without having much understanding about this trope?

 

Fixed that for you. Maybe you'd like to humor me more and tell your Warframes=Technocyte theory?

 

I'm probably not using the textbook definition, no, but I see some variation of the Mary Sue trope as characters that have great, nigh-unbeatable power but don't have any consequences because of it. In particular, drawbacks. I ranted about Superman a few weeks back, but at least with him he CAN be written with the whole "it feels like I'm living in a world of cardboard" problem, where he's just TOO strong for everything around him and it takes effort to control his strength to make sure he doesn't break something or someone.

 

I see the Tenno in a similar vein - if we can have these great powers, these reality-shattering capabilities, and at ANY point just cast off our Warframes and walk around like normal people, I think that's a poor character design. But, as you pointed out, due to the Ember Codex that's very likely not the case.

 

As for the Warframes are Technocyte... How about this:

 

During the Jordas Golem fight, aside from all the other comments that connect us to the Technocyte, the Infestation might shout through Jordas "USELESS HOLLOW SHELLS". That got me thinking back to another quote:

 

"That [the Infested Mesa] is no Tenno. It's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Mutalist flesh." - Lotus during Patient Zero

 

No, regardless of how you want to interpret the "hollow" as "literally empty inside" or a more archaic and mystical "without a soul", both refer to the same thing - Lotus comes out and says "the Warframe", while the Infestation uses "shells", and the best candidate for a shell here would be the Warframe.

 

And, of course, there's the whole issue with the fact of the "we are your flesh", "it senses you are of like flesh", and, more damningly, Jordas' comment "I see now, you are the same", DESPITE the fact that the Tenno were never exposed to the Technocyte, they were results of Void experimentation. Now, people like to claim "it's just because they're made up of human flesh" but if that's the same then the Infestation must be CONSTANTLY confused - and it IS confused, again, so helpfully informed to us by Jordas - because EVERYONE in the Origin system is human flesh.

 

And I don't see that as a possibility. With the Jordas Precept quest the Infestation - as a hivemind whole - is given a solid character: it's intelligent, cunning, it can plan and set a trap (it basically used us as a pizza delivery service to feed its Behemoth "DELICIOUS PHERLIAC!"). It just doesn't add up for it to be in such a constant state of confusion whenever it encounters any of its prey - be it Grineer or Corpus.

 

But an odd man out? A LITERAL attack of Technocyte-made flesh against Technocyte-made flesh? THAT would be something it wouldn't be used to, that would be something it probably couldn't understand - it would be like if your own kidneys started to cut their way our of you right now.

 

To me, the evidence is mounting.

[Morec0]

And Ordis's existence in each player's Liset desite being the last existing one of his type, and his saying the exact same thing to you as it does other players in the game, doesn't ruin story progression?

Please, how long have you been playing games? This doesn't ruin story progresssion, it merely ruins meticulous tasks of logging out to log in as some other username or having to get multiple of the same items and arsenal you had on your original frame. The Stalker example is poor, he hates all Tenno and shows up in missions, whether he is after you or someone else in your squad, he is also a gameplay nuisance more than anything doing with story progression. The codex behind him revolves around getting revenge on all Tenno, regardless of any current bosses you kill, and the Second Sleep will also involve him, which again, is going to happen whether you kill any bosses between that time or not.

 

Syndicates  are basically the same, they are more gameplay obstacles than anything doing with story progression. At base storywise, they merely serve to further convey the existence of more people and factions in the galaxy other than Grineer and Corpus.

 

Could have separate character accounts - ala WoW, don't gotta log back in with a new username for that, just out of character.

 

The difference between Stalker and Ordis comes from it can be widely accept that Ordis IS only for one specific Tenno - that being the Tenno the storyline assumes the player is (whether or not the player wants to be that Tenno for roleplaying purposes, though, is up to them). But Stalker IS, as you say, after all Tenno, and when he comes for you he comes for a specific Tenno that did these things - just as Ordis obeys a specific, singular "Operator".

 

And of course there's the whole Limbo Theorem statement and Steve saying it wasn't a Fourth Wall Break, so...

[Evanescent]

What if when you came out of the void, the only thing they could save were the Spinal Cord and the Brain, and that's what's changed between frames which are organic beings?

 

My personal theory is that we ARE the suit, and the warframes per se are literally just frames that our bodies can bond with and take a solid shape, the frames being shaped after the original Tenno. It would explain how you are able to mass produce suits, why you can color them so easily and warp them into skins, why you bleed and breathe-you are still alive. The Frame shapes your powers and gives you a physical silhouette.

[Alexion]

Warframe = The suit, Tenno = The Player. 

 

It is best to leave this topic alone, we don't know anything for certain.

If that's the case, then why does Ordis call us by Operator instead of Tenno? What if the suit, body & mind are separate?

[Morec0]

If that's the case, then why does Ordis call us by Operator instead of Tenno? What if the suit, body & mind are separate?

 

For the same reason you call your commanding naval officer "Captain" instead of "Sailor".

 

Also: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/39/OrdisIdle2.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150512142622

[Prany]

@Morec0 I haven't done the quest, but, from what you presented, I'm more inclined to think people in suits are made of tecnocyte flesh not suits themselves.

 

I think you dismiss Jordas being confused way too easily. People... well, things can be both batS#&$ insane and calculating. Especially with infestation which is character, as you said, but not a person. To us it may be incomprehensible to great degree and could not comprehend world around it to same degree.

 

Besides maybe infestation doesn't see difference between infested and non-infested flesh. Who knows, maybe Phorid thinks that lancer is of same flesh and cries big, fat tears after being forced to kill misguided clone in self defense.

 

And if warframes are made of technocyte, of same flesh, why would Jordas call them useless shells instead of, you know, sqeel about betrayal of his own kind. Sounds more like generic insult a.k.a. first thing you say when anger makes you dumb.

 

To you it's evidence mounting, but I see mostly assumptions. Remember, writers rarely put in their works as much thought as their most enthusiastic fans.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Prany

[Rhodan]

Truth is Tenno are just .exe files on a USB stick plugged into the back of a warframe.

[Morec0]

@Morec0 I haven't done the quest, but, from what you presented, I'm more inclined to think people in suits are made of tecnocyte flesh.

 

I think you dismiss Jordas being confused way too easily. People... well, things can be both batS#&$ insane and calculating. Especially with infestation which is character, as you said, but not a person. To us it may be incomprehensible to great degree and could not comprehend world around it to same degree.

 

Besides maybe infestation doesn't see difference between infested and non-infested flesh. Who knows, maybe Phorid thinks that lancer is of same flesh and cries big, fat tears after being forced to kill misguided clone in self defense.

 

And if warframes are made of technocyte, of same flesh, why would Jordas call them useless shells instead of, you know, sqeel about betrayal of his own kind. Sounds more like generic insult a.k.a. first thing you say when anger makes you dumb.

 

To you it's evidence mounting, but I see mostly assumptions. Remember, writers rarely put in their works as much thought as their most enthusiastic fans.

 

It's not Jordas I dismiss as being confused, it's the Infestation. The Hivemind for all of the Infested that is speaking through Jordas. THAT'S what lured, us, that's what tricked us, that's what used us. Not Jordas, he was just their puppet. As for the betrayal, again, this is as if a part of your OWN BODY suddenly started to kill you - betrayal is a friend, but your own physical form? That's confusing and weird.

 

I still don't see the Tenno themselves being Infested flesh, though. We're one thing, the Warframes are another. And as for writers putting thought into their work not as much as the fans, I respectfully disagree; sure, there are things that aren't intended that the fans can pull out, but a writer doesn't just throw things out there willy-nilly, there's generally an outline.

[Prany]

It's not Jordas I dismiss as being confused, it's the Infestation. The Hivemind for all of the Infested that is speaking through Jordas. THAT'S what lured, us, that's what tricked us, that's what used us. Not Jordas, he was just their puppet. As for the betrayal, again, this is as if a part of your OWN BODY suddenly started to kill you - betrayal is a friend, but your own physical form? That's confusing and weird.

It's like you just skimmed over my post. We don't know psychology of infestation. But could bet they are (and we are to them) completely alien.

 

I still don't see the Tenno themselves being Infested flesh, though. We're one thing, the Warframes are another.

That's amazing dismissal. But look what I got: tenno are technocyte (one thing) and warframes are purely technological suits (other thing). See, simple, but of course it didn't cross you mind, because of that monumental bias wall. You know, just like with truthers.

 

And as for writers putting thought into their work not as much as the fans, I respectfully disagree; sure, there are things that aren't intended that the fans can pull out, but a writer doesn't just throw things out there willy-nilly, there's generally an outline.

I'm not saying writers do things willy-nilly. I'm saying theory crafters are so much more @(*()$ anal.

[Morec0]

That's amazing dismissal. But look what I got: tenno are technocyte (one thing) and warframes are purely technological suits (other thing). See, simple, but of course it didn't cross you mind, because of that monumental bias wall. You know, just like with truthers.

 

Oh! Wait! There's something I forgot about:

 

Jordas says the Warframe (Atlas, obviously) that had been defeated there's petrified remains were still around. Metal doesn't petrify. Organic tissue does. Point for my point?

[Prany]

Not a bad point, but we clearly can see metal portions on frames. To me it starts sounding like infestation can't distinguish from suit and its wearers.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Prany

[Morec0]

Not a bad point, but we clearly can see metal potions on frames. To me it starts sounding like infestation can't distinguish from suit and its wearers.

 

Aye, and that gives me pause, but to me it could either just be a part of how the Technocyte making of up the Warframes is shaped and molded or those bits could be foreign elements introduced and forcibly fused to the Technocyte flesh, Alloy Plates and whatnot, for added durability.

[-Ozymandias-]

What if when you came out of the void, the only thing they could save were the Spinal Cord and the Brain, and that's what's changed between frames which are organic beings?

 

My personal theory is that we ARE the suit, and the warframes per se are literally just frames that our bodies can bond with and take a solid shape, the frames being shaped after the original Tenno. It would explain how you are able to mass produce suits, why you can color them so easily and warp them into skins, why you bleed and breathe-you are still alive. The Frame shapes your powers and gives you a physical silhouette.

further supporting Steve's comment when he said we are brains in a jar (or something like that)

good pov

Truth is Tenno are just .exe files on a USB stick plugged into the back of a warframe.

where do you plug the stick?

( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)

[Morec0]

further supporting Steve's comment when he said we are brains in a jar (or something like that)

good pov

 

He said that was the closest theory he'd seen, which to me suggest it's NOT that theory but rather something that maintains the key element of it - a disembodies consciousness.

[Urlan]

It's like you just skimmed over my post. We don't know psychology of infestation. But could bet they are (and we are to them) completely alien.

 

That's amazing dismissal. But look what I got: tenno are technocyte (one thing) and warframes are purely technological suits (other thing). See, simple, but of course it didn't cross you mind, because of that monumental bias wall. You know, just like with truthers.

 

I'm not saying writers do things willy-nilly. I'm saying theory crafters are so much more @(*()$ anal.

 

Actually, our suits, the warframes are technocyte as we use plastids - a technocyte tumor - to build them from out bluerprints of the original infested organisms the warframes are designed off of. We are void mutated humans, whether we are flesh and blood still under the technocyte suits, energy beings, or brains in jar black boxes or something is up to debate for update 18 but we the Tenno get our power from void energy emanations that we give off from being twisted by the void.

[-Ozymandias-]

He said that was the closest theory he'd seen, which to me suggest it's NOT that theory but rather something that maintains the key element of it - a disembodies consciousness.

i still support more the theory of "energy beings" or, as you said, consciousness.

[Prany]

Actually, our suits, the warframes are technocyte as we use plastids - a technocyte tumor - to build them from out bluerprints of the original infested organisms the warframes are designed off of. We are void mutated humans, whether we are flesh and blood still under the technocyte suits, energy beings, or brains in jar black boxes or something is up to debate for update 18 but we the Tenno get our power from void energy emanations that we give off from being twisted by the void.

First of all game mechanics DO. NOT. APPLY. Frames and weapons use many unfitting resources. Oberon, for one, doesn't use single organic or semi-organic material.

 

As for the rest of your post, it shows reason why I'm so critical of Morec0 and similar theorists. Theory crafting is all fine and fun, but you tend to forget self awareness, get too confident in your theories, stop stating that your theories are just theories. And more impressionable folks like Urlan here who doesn't know any better start parroting "common knowledge" they heard somewhere without giving it critical thought. And I find it bit annoying.

 

@Morec0 I have no doubt you are more humble and analytical person than your posts indicate, but, internet being internet, overconfidence and lack of critical thinking is what shows on my end. Not much different how I quite possibly come across as massive A****** on your end. If so, I apologize. Still I'd like to request from you to make it clear that your theories are theories when children like Urlan are around. Only so they don't get wrong impression, mix theories with facts and annoy grownups with "common knowledge".

[nefrai]

I believe each Warframe is a different person in the suit. Males and females. Don't they also make sounds when fighting? The voices change. Unless DE states otherwise, I'll always see each Warframe as their own person. Personality changes for each Frame as well, in how they stand/move.

 

There are a million theories because of all the fan fiction, but DE has pretty much stayed out of it so far.