(Daikyu) The Ludicrously Lackluster Longbow Looking For Love

[notHunky]

Seriously now, how many Daikyu threads do we have now? It's quite apparent this weapon needs some tweaks to its damage profile.

 

I get that this weapon was meant to stand out and support a different play-style compared to the other bows. The Daikyu is meant to be a more powerful bow which requires more planning, timing, and precision to employ effectively in combat. My biggest gripe with the Daikyu would be that it is a risk/reward type of weapon, but it is entirely missing the reward.

 

Compared to other bows and charge based weapons, the Daikyu has very bad ergonomics which make it harder to use in most situations. For example:

 

- It has the longest charge time out of all charged weapons only surpassed by the Opticor.

- The slow charge time is exacerbated by not being able to fire arrows before a full charge.

- It cannot hold a charge for longer than 5 seconds

- Compared to other bows, the Daikyu takes longer to retrieve arrows from your quiver between shots.

 

All of the previous things mentioned on that list I think are fine on the Daikyu. It's supposed to be a heavy and cumbersome weapon to use. However, once you take a look at what other bows/charge weapons are capable of achieving, things start to get really nasty...

 

- Despite being a heavy bow, the Daikyu is surpassed in both damage and fire rate by the Dread and Paris Prime, due their capability of guaranteed critical hits.

- Other charge based weapons just simply outperform the Daikyu in every way (Opticor, Ogris, and maybe the Lanka)

- The Opticor exists as a much better alternative. It has the same low critical chance and an even longer charge time than the Daikyu, but the Opticor can fire below a full charge and its uncharged shot deals a whopping 500 base damage compared to the Daikyu's 350 at full charge. Also the Opticor has a small AOE explosion when hitting the environment.

 

"But Uncle Hunky, the Daikyu can be used as a status weapon due to it's 100% proc chance!"

 

No... just no.

 

- Status procs are diluted by your puncture/impact/slash damage types.

- The Daikyu has the lowest fire rate in the entire game only surpassed by the Opticor, but the Opticor can be fired on a partial charge.

- Even if you manage to hit the right elemental proc on 1 enemy, there will be at least 5 other goons emptying rounds into your face while you reload the next arrow. This can prove fatal on higher difficulties.

 

If the Daikyu is supposed to be a really heavy and cumbersome weapon to use, the thing should hit like a truck even on high level enemies. To preserve the playstyle of the Daikyu, I would suggest making the weapon deal damage near the same level of an Opticor, if not more.

 

I'd say to keep the draw speed slow and the critical chance low, so there is still a noticeable element of risk when using the weapon, but make the base damage high enough to remain viable on higher levels and make the damage numbers insane when the bow does decide to crit.

Edited November 1, 2015 by notHunky

[SubjectL]

Aye, it does need a tweek, really badly

[motorfirebox]

Actually, due to the status chance, there's a pretty strong case to me made that it actually has HIGHER dps than Dread or Paris Prime.

 

Though I will fully admit that the idea of a crit Daikyu makes me feel like I just climbed the rope in gym class. Here's hoping for Daikyu Prime...

Edited November 1, 2015 by motorfirebox

[Date_Terumune]

i think just damage should increase with distance traveled [there is pvp mod for that] so this may "Complete" Daikyu position as Pure sniper bow

[Paradoxbomb]

I really should build this one day to experience it first-hand, but all the feedback I've heard on it has made me refrain from building it honestly. It just sounds like a pointless weapon; much more cumbersome to use than any other bow but vastly inferior mechanically and statistically, and even as a status weapon it's potential is diluted by the less than stellar physical status effects and it's nature as a low RoF weapon. Maybe it's at least useful in PvP or something, but as it stands there's simply nothing about this bow that makes it sound like it's worth using.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Paradoxbomb

[taiiat]

 

make Daikyu an Elemental Bow, and boom, it's way better.

also increase Damage to like, 650-750. will deal sufficient Damage + Status then without having to rely on Crits.

i wouldn't touch the Charge Speed at all then. i would 'fix' not being able to click and have it draw and fire OR hold to Charge and wait until release. having both was very nice

 

 

 

Actually, due to the status chance, there's a pretty strong case to me made that it actually has HIGHER dps than Dread or Paris Prime.

Viral Status stops helping you oneshot Enemies at like, ~Lv30 with how Daikyu performs.

[BoomyGordo]

yeeeeeea... status weapon unless a single element isnt a good argument on anything but a 100% status shotgun. strun wraith at 100% means each pellet has a 100% status chance and can proc a different status, so you often get a slew of different procs every single shot. something like the daikyu has too low a fire rate for it to be considered a decent status weapon

[Arunafeltz]

I'd sit with increasing damage and doing away with the crits. Maybe the arrow's trail could also have a little sonicboom that staggers enemies it just misses or something, but that's too ambitious.

[Misgenesis]

It seems to be bugged as well, i frequently notice arrows going through targets, especially with shield grineers.

 

Or im just blind. But ive been enjoying it still, its got a great feel to it.

[Numbsky1]

Just make the Daikyuu the opposite of the Dread:

 

Keep the draw mechanics and speed.

Get rid of of crits (down to 2.5%) 

Keep status

 

Change damage profile to:  

 

Charged attack:

 

25 Impact

25 puncture

450 slash

 

The high amount of base slash together with high status would trigger very high slash procs quite often (if modded properly) which would make the weapon very useful even in late game even for solo players without the benefit of 4xCP.  The high base damage would make it usefull in general.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Numbsky1

[enJohneering]

i think just damage should increase with distance traveled [there is pvp mod for that] so this may "Complete" Daikyu position as Pure sniper bow

Yep, this.

 

The dread has fantastic damage that experiences falloff much later than other weapons making it optimal for many situations but is cumbersome to use. Great at mid range.

 

The Rakta Cernos is great because its charge time is short enough to be used against multiple foes in a hurry. Great at close range.

 

Clearly, the Daikyu could take the victory in very long range shots with the above buff. While the other bows can certainly be used a very long range, the Daikyu would just be the best at it. A useful but difficult and situational tool. 

[Date_Terumune]

i use Daikyu with corrosive proc [5 forma build] that deals 6.3k corrosive and 1.1k puncture [dont have puncture event mod] and i can say, this bow has problems with one-headshot-kill on Wave 40 or 40min survival.

 

The main problem is not the fire-rate or travel speed, its the damage that is 90% of warframe game mechanics.

 

For me, Daikyu is really epic bow, should be made primary weapon for arbiters of hexis. [not some S#&$e kind boltor]

[motorfirebox]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Daikyu Prime ended up being the bow we want Daikyu to be.

 

I mean, think about it. If Daikyu were a crit bow, it would put Paris Prime and Dread and even Rakta Cernos out to pasture. Three endgame bows with a relatively high degree of difficulty to acquire—Paris Prime is probably the easiest unless you get lucky with Stalker, and it's one of the few (the only?) four-part Prime weapons—completely outclassed by a weapon you can make at home and whose most expensive part is a forma. Even as a status bow, it's actually competitive.

 

So I think DE intentionally hit the Daikyu with the nerf bat before release. With Daikyu Prime, especially if it's another four-parter, they won't feel so constrained.

Edited November 2, 2015 by motorfirebox

[DSpite]

i use Daikyu with corrosive proc [5 forma build] that deals 6.3k corrosive and 1.1k puncture [dont have puncture event mod] and i can say, this bow has problems with one-headshot-kill on Wave 40 or 40min survival.

 

The main problem is not the fire-rate or travel speed, its the damage that is 90% of warframe game mechanics.

 

For me, Daikyu is really epic bow, should be made primary weapon for arbiters of hexis. [not some S#&$e kind boltor]

 

Yes, because we should use level 100+ Enemies as benchmarks for weapons. If a weapon can still kill broken enemies like those, it certainly does not have a damage problem. Level 100 units have TEN times or more the health of level 30 units, not 3.3, as general math would calculate, because it's a non-linear system. When you headshot that Level 100 unit, you have done enough damage to kill even a level 50 unit about 5 times over.

 

Rate of fire, ammo pool, fire time, etc etc you can argue to maybe improve, so the weapon behaves "mechanically" better and smoother, but not damage. Endless is not a benchmark for anything other then bored people with too much spare time and Forma.

[DrBorris]

Just make the Daikyuu the opposite of the Dread:

 

Keep the draw mechanics and speed.

Get rid of of crits (down to 2.5%) 

Keep status

 

Change damage profile to:  

 

Charged attack:

 

25 Impact

25 puncture

450 slash

 

The high amount of base slash together with high status would trigger very high slash procs quite often (if modded properly) which would make the weapon very useful even in late game even for solo players without the benefit of 4xCP.  The high base damage would make it usefull in general.

What about making it only Slash? It would reduce the RNG with status and slash procs are extremely powerful.

[AlphaPHENIX]

The reall problem if you ask me (and you shouldnt ask me) stands not in the Daikyu itself but more so in the situations that you are forced to use it in. You see the Daikyu is a Longbow and to explain it simply Longbows are the Sniper Rifles of medival times, now may i ask you how many people in Warframe still use the Vulkar or Vectis hell even Vectis Prme on a regular basis...ya i thought so. Look my point is that the good old Daikyu simply isnt made for the combat that its used in, though archers wich used Longbows were trained to the point where they can draw it about as fast as Tenno can draw a Dread, this is video game land you dont get that kind of training around here sadly. As for everything that has been said by you lovely people over here i agree with all of it, just wanted you to notice where the placement of the problem is.

 

PS: I apolagise if i seemed to be a little rude, I didnt intend it

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

I maxed my daykio for status to use in events eventually , but s not bad weapon only not focused in critical like a paris p or dread , maybe some additional effect s necessary , maybe super power through when charged, or natural thunderbolt

[onemoonlight]

Haiku = worse miter.

[Unholyrequiem]

The Daikyu is utterly outclassed. Rakta cernos, Paris Prime and dread easily output it., it's status chance is it's only shining point but even that pales in comparison of the other 3's crit damage. Hell the rakta cernos beats the Daikyu in raw physical unmodded damage.

[Pythadragon]

Is everyone aware that the PVP Daikyu specific mod "Spring Loaded Broadhead" is now usable in PVE?

 

 

The following Conclave Mods can now be used in PvE:

...

Spring Loaded Broadhead (Daikyu) - Increased damage after the projectile has traveled 20m.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Spring-Loaded_Broadhead

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/552544-update-1790/

Edited November 7, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Arunafeltz]

Yeah, but I think few or none of us are under the impression that that much is anywhere near enough for a very handsome bow whose unique design is wasted on its underwhelming stats.

[motorfirebox]

Anybody know, is that base damage? I.e. do elemental mods multiply off it, or not?

[tnccs215]

Another problem I find in this bow (that I want to love, so bad, but I can't, because of all this reasons) it's its quirky reload. as in, you can't just press the fire button right after you shoot, becuase it will bug a bit and wont start to charge the shot, forcing you to have to wait (probably longuer than necessary) to ensure your frame can start to draw the arrow. Feels really broken.

[hukurokuju5]

you guys talk about the status as if it even makes a difference...  on a slow firing weapon, meant to 1 shot.....  

 

maybe make the Daikyuu have a guaranteed stagger or knockdown on hit ( or maybe even ragdoll regardless of target death), so that the status would make sense for a target that has survived the 1 shot attempt.

 

sonicor has ridiculous Ao3 ragdoll cc properties on automatic fire.  why not a slow firing bow?

 

 

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