Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[SethAlvory]

2-1-4 should do the same job as 2-1-2-4(the second molt is redundant as far as I can tell). That being said, it would be nice if saryn had a convenient means of regaining energy that wasn't tied to melee. Mind you, toxic lash would need to receive yet another buff in order to stay relevant.

[Xarteros]

no, i want casting molt a second time to actually cast a second one, not just detonating the existing one. that would be horrible

[rawr1254]

1>shooting gas ignis>4 saves a TON of energy.

[01thanatos10]

There is no Saryn nerf.  Saryn performs by leagues better than before and her damage is nuts.  That said, there is a nerf to Miasma functionality (due to requiring a setup, however minimal that is).  Spores alone facilitate damaging enemies in a way Saryn never could before the rework.  A few tweaks to Molt's survivability, a bit of a damage pas to make Miasma better, better mobility and more health to Saryn herself would do much to make the rework amazing (all things being currently suggested in the megathread).

 

It has been tested (Simulacrum and T4), and has been demonstrated mathematically.  To say Saryn has been nerfed at this point is just covering ears and going "Lalalala I can't hear you lalalala".  and is not constructive.

The nerf is she lost a build path not dmg you now have to build duration or all her skills lose out. Which goes against de whole idea of build diversity. The reworked sayran really only has one build with it having maybe 1 or 2 mods different.

I like the way DE going with her it just seems like its kinda half assed since non of her abilities got changed that much. Basically all they did was tweak her dmg make spores spread faster and make her abilities combo.   

[Oranji]

You could've killed them faster by hitting them multiple times with Orthos Toxic Lash.

[RealPandemonium]

The nerf is she lost a build path  

That entire build path was predicated on an unintended damage calculation quirk.  DE had always intended for Saryn to be just as duration-dependent as other frames, if not more so.  It was an exploit that took more than two years to fix, which is shameful, but that's what it is in the end.  

[iSmallfry]

You could've killed them faster by hitting them multiple times with Orthos Toxic Lash.

You mean like using my melee only,instead of powers in-between? that would certainly be an option in a 1v1 scenario.Being surrounded by Heavy gunners though, that'd probably result in a dead Saryn.

Edited November 11, 2015 by iSmallfry

[SethAlvory]

1>shooting gas ignis>4 saves a TON of energy.

True, however the downside is that this assumes that a given saryn player also happens to have a spare ignis lying around(or belongs to a clan that has already researched it, and is willing to wait 12 hours, not including the time it takes to build/farm 2 detonite injectors, just to make saryn more usable). While it's certainly a good strategy/combo, and a means to help alleviate saryn's new energy-hungry playstyle, it's probably not good practice for warframes to be forced to use a specific weapon in order to be functional.

[RealPandemonium]

Just use a Toxin or Gas status weapon instead of abilities.  You don't need a Gas Ignis or anything like that; something like Grakata or even anything with a moderate fire rate and a status chance above 10% can work (make sure to get a 60% Toxin status mod from the void to make this a solid strat with the less than ideal weapons.)  

 

Even outside of that, Saryn is perfectly functional with just Toxic Lash.

[akira_him]

I tested toxic lash after DE fixed its bug on not popping spores

still have general issue of melee game play: enemies are killed by teammates' guns before you reach them,

if you use miasma to stun them, you are gonna kill them first before you recover your energy

you probably do not want to waste your energy on toxic lash in order to recover your energy from popping spores, it is just not practical

Toxic lash needs to provide something other than melee bonus, it is still a waste of energy

[akira_him]

https://youtu.be/iDCD9S1BCA4?t=227

[zendian]

I try SARYN at t3s 60min only use melee

I think she revisited  have something to notice

 

toxic lash is a melee skill, but parry need some distance to make it work

If you use melee weapon you may rush into enemy and you get a lot of bullet from back 

 

so i guess saryn may could get some stun proc and some attack distance like reach

or more damage like that when lash proc more spores will increase damage or change time and the spores will get lash damage on next dot

and her skill 4 will proc every dot again if spores have already change 

 

 

Toxin damage is weak to against a high armor enemy,and saryn also need more defend ability to survival

if DE want saryn use melee weapon 

Edited November 11, 2015 by zendian

[Naftal]

If you just want to spam abilities, get a trinity in group or use restores like ability spammers do. There's no need to make the combo any cheaper.

[GhostLacuna]

using red veil weapons for the blight proc or suda weapons for the entropy proc helps with energy as well. 

 

There are many ways do help with her energy. You just have to find the way that works for you. 

[VoidNomade]

Don't use it as a decoy, use it as a totem before a defense wave starts and put some spores onto it and use it to reactivate your viral chain, if a damage frame broke the old chain.

But yeah a HP/Amor buff would make it more relayable for non infested missions.

 

Because defence is the only game mode?^^

 

Well, the thing is I don't use Molt to take hits. If you put it behind some cover, enemies will shoot at it anyway, and if you're using Toxic Lash (I'm a melee player, it doesn't bother me) they're still in Spore range mostly. It's more a substitute than a Decoy. Twice the duration actually helps me quite a lot. Plus you have more time to chain it with Miasma if that tickles your peach.

A change I'd really like to see is Miasma causing enemies with multiple Toxin Procs exploding like enemies that die with Avalanche. Right now all the stacking with Toxic Lash goes to waste if you use Miasma.

 

I want to know why they thought they would need to give it +duration when the feedback is that molt doesn´t last long enough to gun fire and that this makes lategame units with guns for her harder.

The decision and the feedback here are miles away from each other so there needs to be another reason.

 

 

Also some problems with molt pre-emptive casting. (not saying you will never use them that way you described it, though i think that those cases are far less than the regular usage of it when you´re roaming in any non-defence mission)

 

-Casting skills cost energy, you want to reduce molt casts to a minimum because of that

-molt aggro has low range + no_100%_aggro, that means the decoy must be placed wisely and quickly, that means it´s mostly cast in situations where you´re shot at and you need instantly cover this mean the following; -you don´t have time to search a nice place -you don´t have time to go to this nice place

-this means molt will draw gunfire the moment it´s cast

-molt now dies very quick, making the skill itself and the augment useless and/or too costly

-another problem is that molt is destroyed the moment you cast miasma in range, why should it need duration

 

When we take all that into account and not the exotic usage of a mini aggro drawer hidden behind walls, the change with + duration makes really no sense.

[Aquasurge]

DE -well done, you have made a great start to solve saryn's energy problems but they still need to be tweaked as the new changes require a dense enemy population/xm² to be effective. If that happens, the energy return is less the energy spent on the toxic-lash/(molt)/spore combo in the first place.

 

I recommend that you increase the energy 'feedback' from 2 energy per spore to 3-6 energy per spore.

or that energy feedback depends on the enemy population/xm²  - i.e. more energy is returned if there is a less dense enemy population (inverse proportion)

[GhostLacuna]

Saryn is not bad she just lack a niche at the moment. If DE wants her to be a DoT based frame they could promote that niche further by extending base skill duration and range. 

 

If they truly want her to be a melee frame they can make further tweaks to her durability by reverting the health drop and make toxic lashs damage reduction work as Mesas shatter shield. Those changes alone would maker her a far more effective melee frame. 

 

If they want her to be a support frame they could just give spore a slow % per spore and make miasma a lingering gas cloud that stagger enemies within it for its duration. This would make her an excellent CC frame that would be great in a group setting. 

 

There are plenty of time left to improve saryn further. 

[tnccs215]

I stopped caring about anything you said after reading that. Why would it just be the women along side men who would or would not wear flowers?

Do some research firstly, and secondly, this is a fantasy game, the giant flower holds no bearing on real life tactical behavior of males or females in combat. If you don't like it, don't buy it, if you don't enjoy saryn, don't play. Some things just don't require to be spoken aloud, especially if it is done so in a bigoted fashion

I pray DE comes out with an Ash or Excalibur skin where he is freaking peppered in lillies and daisies and cute little roses.

It would actually make sense, because there os a big tradition of gardening and care of flowers on Samurai culture.

Mh... Maybe saying that the sexual organs of a plant decide your sexuality is stupid..

Also, I agree. you cant exactly anything on this game with how "real world war" works. When was the last time you saw a skinny guy in a top hat charge into battle in a tuxedo with white shoes?

[akira_him]

another issue about melee saryn,

you cannot cast molt in the middle of any melee animation

and it is kind of pointless using toxic lash to pop spread spores when you can do that with ground slamming molt with spores, which is safer/cheaper

[Racter]

I don't feel like reading through the pages since the last hotfix, but you can use lifestrike for free now (more or less) with Contagion + Venom all the things. Even with an Orthos P with maxed P Reach (hits a ton of targets at once) I was basically running around energy capped. Certainly doesn't solve the problems with energy usage/durability completely but it worked pretty well up until ~120 (no cc frames) when I started getting 1 shot between melee swings lol

 

Still think your best bet is just a max range Venom build. The synergy, combo'ing etc just seems like a waste of time and effort for the damage, especially compared to just using an aoe weapon and mass popping spores like that.

 

I am actually 100% against her getting any kind of CC from Venom. It's fine with Nova because you can build it for speed (or at least neutral/very small slow) but if you had no way to make the spores not slow mobs I would literally never use her again. So much of this game is about kill rate and slows/radiation/etc slow that down substantially. Additionally, if you're doing anything other than raids, you can easily bring a frame that has a targeted cc that only affects a small area (think Vauban in a sewer, though there are obviously other options) and be in far better shape than massive, map wide cc (exactly what Venom would be with a snare built in, Slova, Chaos, ID Loki etc).

 

I wouldn't be opposed to it being an augment but it certainly shouldn't be built in to the ability IMO.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Racter0325

[RealPandemonium]

another issue about melee saryn,

you cannot cast molt in the middle of any melee animation

and it is kind of pointless using toxic lash to pop spread spores when you can do that with ground slamming molt with spores, which is safer/cheaper

Bullet jumping works even better.  I guess that's why they added energy restore for Toxic Lash, though.  

[Blood_Poppy]

I love Sayrn New Skin since She Dress to Kill... and it optional to buy that Skin..

 

She a Cat..? Erm.. She look Like a Caterpillar/mushroom hybrid.. 

 

 

 

Lastly your post are misogynist toward woman... 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Blood_Poppy

[hukurokuju5]

SPORE>

>>>>>>>  is godly <<<<<<<<<<<<<  gewd jawb 

 

MOLT > 

>> could use some touch ups > 2-4 sec invulnerable and aggro?  

 

suggestion: or verrrry short tealth on cast  ( a la khazix) with energy reduction per cast up to a limit (like atlas  landslide)

THIS WOULD make her more slippery for melee purposes

 

TOXIC LASH  > 

- over 1/4th of the weaponclasses avaiable offer an 85% damage reduc on block ALREADY.  90% is the cap for an additive bonus from lash..soo it can make any weapon max damage reduction.  

 

- as a standalone skill, this thing doesnt add much other than to bank on the idea that miasma is the end all to this warframe, leaving this skill as an afterthought and little actual facilitation of the *melee playstyle that is trying to be encouraged*?.

( "oh i must proc toxin and viral so that  i can press 4 for boom")

 

on the note of press 4 for boom,

 

 

Miasma is the same old aoe damage on 4 and does NOTHINGELSE... Frost's avalanche takes a dump on the chest of this skill with its aoe DURATION FREEZE and ARMOR REDUCTION and on death splash...

>> PUT SOMETHING THEMATIC ON THIS SKILL.  anything.... 

 

% additional finisher damage from damage recieved while under duration of miasma?  

 

Decaying armor over a duration??  strip all armor over duration??  

 

Lifesteal over duration?  

 

Slow on miasma proc of both viral and toxin multipliers?  

 

change to persistent progressive debuff  and dot centered around saryn a la world on fire?

[akira_him]

Bullet jumping works even better.  I guess that's why they added energy restore for Toxic Lash, though.  

I wish it offers health recovery (not life steal) instead of energy return, especially it is just 2 points per 1 spore, you either killed the enemy or the enemy killed you before you get the energy back

[xicx]

i used to like saryn because of her tankiness and cool survivability  but now she's like a freaking  petal in a bad way, i dont think its cool  for me to try to make sum crazy build to concentrate only on her powers , what about her survivability and this combo with miasma, seriously. some combos are cool with other frames  and that's because they came like that but come on.

 

I really dislike this rework , I would have rather that she sprout a tree that sent out spores or something like that but not this.