Liv.Somik Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So, since we've just learn that Tennos don't actually die when the warframe is destroyed, does it imply that Mirage didn't actually died in the old war? Because of this, I have two theories about her "death". (unless DE decides to change her mission) 1. The Orokins executed her when she woke up because they wanted to keep the "transference" a secret among the Tenno. That's why the Lotus knew she lost Mirage even though it was just the warframe that's been destroyed (or she didn't even know about the "transference" yet). 2. Mirage DID NOT DIE and somehow escaped the Old War. It would totally make sense since theoretically only the Orokins had the warframe blueprints during the war and it was only after the fall of the Orokin Empire that the blueprints were exposed to the Tenno and later excavated by the other forces. So unless Mirage survived the old war and got her hands on the blueprints, she wouldn't be able to leave hidden messages on them. ------------- Of course, it is totally possible that the messages were written by someone else, but the mission totally implies that the messages were left by Mirage herself. And it wouldn't make any sense if Lotus were the one who left the messages since she wanted Mirage to be remembered and honored, and she's not really a riddler. You can also argue that the Tenno have always had the blueprints themselves and they can build what ever they want. However, given there was a whole empire there to "manufacture" the warframes and weapons, there was really no reason to provide crafting equipment and blueprints for the Tenno during the Old War. Secondly, given the codex of prime warframes, we can safely assume that the earliest warframes were built for specifical Tenno to control their powers (see Ember and Rhino Prime codex) thus there is a second reason for them to NOT have the blueprints. Thirdly, the fact that no more Mirages were around after The Mirage "died" (also Atlas) proves that all warframes WERE unique, thus giving us the third reason why there was no reason to own warframe blueprints during the Old War. (In fact, i think all warframes were prime and unique during the Orokin Era. It was only after the war that the Tenno decided to remove the Orokin tone on the warframes and started to build more of them for those who didn't participate the war and have not a unique warframe built for them to control their powers) ------------ Of course, this is just my speculation, please tell your thoughts about it so that we can improve this theory together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 By the time that Mirage was hanging out with the Lotus and fought the grineer, the Orokin were already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian_Legion Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 the quotes that we get in combat show that we experience everything our warframes do. That includes the pain of being torn limb from limb.. that shock could have been what killed mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 #Lotuslies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 By the time that Mirage was hanging out with the Lotus and fought the grineer, the Orokin were already dead. She was fighting the Sentients in that. the quotes that we get in combat show that we experience everything our warframes do. That includes the pain of being torn limb from limb.. that shock could have been what killed mirage. EXCEPT that in Stolen Dreams its SHOWN that Stalker's been cutting the heads off of Warframes, but as revealed through Hunhow's dialogue even he knows that "they rise again". The transference "makes it hurt", but it's very clear from that exchange that it can't KILL them. #Lotuslies #WishfulThinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv.Somik Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 By the time that Mirage was hanging out with the Lotus and fought the grineer, the Orokin were already dead. "I see the Sentients crashing down on her, dying in overwhelming numbers. Now she's out of energy, I'm telling her to go but she's laughing, tearing their heads off as they swarm." Lotus. According to Lotus's messages during the mission, I think Mirage died fighting the Sentients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakcal Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I like the idea that the Operator was physically wearing the Warframe. This explains why the OG Mirage was powerful enough to take on an army of Sentients. She was as close to the Warframe as physically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 the quotes that we get in combat show that we experience everything our warframes do. That includes the pain of being torn limb from limb.. that shock could have been what killed mirage. Yea I agree with this it makes complete sense with many of the things about this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv.Somik Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 the quotes that we get in combat show that we experience everything our warframes do. That includes the pain of being torn limb from limb.. that shock could have been what killed mirage. It could be true, but it doesn't explain the hidden messages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahlak Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm fairly sure the Tenno weren't 'aware' of themselves at all when this happened. The Second Dream, and all. Mirage could simply have thought she was dying, but actually didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I like the idea that the Operator was physically wearing the Warframe. This explains why the OG Mirage was powerful enough to take on an army of Sentients. She was as close to the Warframe as physically possible. Unlikely, even as far back as the initial comments about it as revealed to us through Stolen Dreams they were "devil minds controlling golems", there never seems to have been a point where any Warframe was ever worn. I'm fairly sure the Tenno weren't 'aware' of themselves at all when this happened. The Second Dream, and all. Mirage could simply have thought she was dying, but actually didn't And Lotus' comment "I lose her, forever"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) "I see the Sentients crashing down on her, dying in overwhelming numbers. Now she's out of energy, I'm telling her to go but she's laughing, tearing their heads off as they swarm." Lotus. According to Lotus's messages during the mission, I think Mirage died fighting the Sentients. It got retconned then. It used to be grineer. :) I thinkerino. Edited December 16, 2015 by Deshiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It got retconned then. It used to be grineer. :) I thinkerino. It was always the Sentients as i recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It was always the Sentients as i recall. I am less sure every passing secondino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It was always the Sentients as i recall. I played it when it first came out, it was always Sentients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_cabbage Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I think the community really does need some clarity on what happens to the tenno when their warframe dies. My belief is that whilst in transference if the warframe dies, the tenno dies (a la matrix.) The term itself seems to suggest that tenno actually transferred their consciousness to the warframe completely and clearly weren't aware of themselves. Interestingly though, the warframe kills itself at the end of that last cut scene. The dialogue that occurs as you're approaching the reservoir though does give some hints regarding the question of what are the frames. That whole, " golems with devil minds" quote. That whole mirage quest does raise another really interesting question though. Just when did natah go rogue? If the messages in the quest (I've never done it btw) speaks to killing sentients how long has she been with us? And what is she doing supporting the killing of sentients back in those days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv.Somik Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 I think the community really does need some clarity on what happens to the tenno when their warframe dies. My belief is that whilst in transference if the warframe dies, the tenno dies (a la matrix.) The term itself seems to suggest that tenno actually transferred their consciousness to the warframe completely and clearly weren't aware of themselves. Interestingly though, the warframe kills itself at the end of that last cut scene. The dialogue that occurs as you're approaching the reservoir though does give some hints regarding the question of what are the frames. That whole, " golems with devil minds" quote. That whole mirage quest does raise another really interesting question though. Just when did natah go rogue? If the messages in the quest (I've never done it btw) speaks to killing sentients how long has she been with us? And what is she doing supporting the killing of sentients back in those days? I don't think that is the case because of Hunhow's speech "sever their heads yet they rise again" which means the Tenno don't truly die when their warframes were destroyed, they might just lose that warframe and transfer to another one. Unless there is no spare ones, then they might just wake up or become brain dead. And about your other question, i think either she was lying like Mak_Gohae said, or she didn't know the truth about the Tenno yet. It might just be a possibility that Mirage's "death" was the thing that led Lotus to start developing compassion towards the Tenno. But sadly we don't have any evidence so we can't prove anything at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch111 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Time line. We NEED a friggin timeline. If Lotus was handler undercover, she assumed anothers identity. This someone must have looked and sounded exactly like her. These memories aren't Lotus right? So maby this was the ORIGINAL Lotus. This is getting tangled and in risk of becomibg real messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neptlude Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Margulis is Mirage, Player Mirage is based of Margulis proto warframe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziegrif Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If we're doing some wild mass guessing. The ship Mirage was on also had the its operator onboard and then BOOM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavelord Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I've taken the idea of the dream being literal, the tenno dream the distinct personalities of each frame, and occupy them accordingly, hence destroying the frame could result in the personality dying, and dying being a literal nightmare for the tenno, that's my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLawrenceStien Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Well in "The Second Dream" Quest Lotus Said that she did lied, but she only did it to protect the Warframes so.. I Think we Need to wait for more updates to come and see who Lotus really is... Edited December 16, 2015 by McLawrenceStien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I don't think that is the case because of Hunhow's speech "sever their heads yet they rise again" which means the Tenno don't truly die when their warframes were destroyed, they might just lose that warframe and transfer to another one. Unless there is no spare ones, then they might just wake up or become brain dead. And about your other question, i think either she was lying like Mak_Gohae said, or she didn't know the truth about the Tenno yet. It might just be a possibility that Mirage's "death" was the thing that led Lotus to start developing compassion towards the Tenno. But sadly we don't have any evidence so we can't prove anything at this point. I took the "they rise again" in that line as tenno overall. Like "kill one terrorist and they still come back" Stalker killed one tenno, but if he cant find the source, he will never get rid of all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vali Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 We do not know when The Transference which allowed the Tenno to control Warframes remotely was discovered. It is possible that Mirage is a pre-transference Tenno, who had to wear the Warframe in order to use it, hence, perishing within it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv.Somik Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 I took the "they rise again" in that line as tenno overall. Like "kill one terrorist and they still come back" Stalker killed one tenno, but if he cant find the source, he will never get rid of all of them. It would make sense but then saying "sever their head" would be meaningless. It's like saying "cutting off their hands yet they clap again", it would be meaningless if it's actually referring to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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