[Spoiler]Helmets And The Human Form Post Second Dream.

[arch111]

I have to clear this up, it's been bothering me layely.

Since the reveal of SD do warframes still need to follow the human form?

Chroma and Zephyr have a human jaw beneath the shapes of a dragon and bird.

Is this still a requirement, or do we have more room to play with volume now?

- Arch111 -

Edited January 4, 2016 by arch111

[RagingGrizzly]

The surrogates under the frames do have genders, that's why they look the why they do. (I think)

[AM-Bunny]

I'm sure it's easier for the Tenno to acclimate to the Warframe's body if its general form is something they're familiar with. Especially since they're frequently switching back and forth.

[DeMonkey]

Excaliburs codex entry states that the frames were built around the Tenno. The fact that they don't actually need to be in the suit is irrelevant, unless there was a 4 armed Tenno they can't built a 4 armed suit.

 

That's just my reasoning anyway.

[Blakrana]

I'm sure it's easier for the Tenno to acclimate to the Warframe's body if its general form is something they're familiar with. Especially since they're frequently switching back and forth.

 

I'd agree with this reasoning. Body dysphoria (spelling?) would be a genuine thing to consider; too different and you'll just not be comfortable potentially. Even Eclipse Phase, a setting where you have an insane variety of bodies still has rules for how well you 'acclimatise' to a new body. Bad times if you roll poorly on that test...so similar logic perhaps? Saying nothing of your perception of self if you're in wildly different forms...whereas being consistently humanoid would reinforce the notion of being human, maybe. 

 

Furthermore, the Warframes are an Orokin design. From what comes across about their approaches...I'd argue that they were particularly Anthropocentric. They could have made forms and structure far less ornate and humanoid, yet still militarily useful...but they didn't. Though it may also have been a concession so that their own soldiers wouldn't lose morale if they saw things that weren't obviously human (or near enough) being fielded alongside them.

 

Following the human form doesn't have to be exact, indeed a lot of the Warframes have some very curious anatomical quirks...but it's still close enough to give a modicum of a humanoid form.

[HitsuSan]

Or probably because it's easier to start from something that already works very well (a human body clone as a base) and add in all the cool stuff instead of making an entire ninja cyborg from scratch.

[Demonfr34k]

The whole concept of the Warframe and the Tenno reminds me of how Pacific Rim worked, the two pilots in that franchise had to kinda merge their minds together to be in sync to control the Jaegar properly. I have a feeling something similar happens in the Transference, i say this because of the most frequent theory that Warframes are derived of the more cleansed and pure infested flesh.

[HitsuSan]

I don't think it's cause of the range of movements, if you think about it we all play games on a constant basis and they all control differently but it doesn't seem like a big problem, there are various studies and researches on the topic. You can even find Ted talks about re targeting of senses to help blind people see with their tongue. The human brain is really adaptable, having to use a tail to balance during a run or a pair of wings to fly at high speed doesn't seem more difficult that what we already do with the instruments that we make.

Edited January 4, 2016 by HitsuSan

[Prime]

aren't warframes also beings? could be that they are of humanoid shape because..... they are o.o

 

 

 

also @op pls add the

tag to your title...

[Robm]

 i say this because of the most frequent theory that Warframes are derived of the more cleansed and pure infested flesh.

 

That would make a lot of sense, seeing how what Lep says to you during the assassination. 

[(PSN)Kamranos]

I thought they were starting to branch out...look at Atlas's head, or lack there of.

[DaftMeat]

IMO: Warframe are meat robots cloned from each Tenno.

[xRufus7x]

I thought they were starting to branch out...look at Atlas's head, or lack there of.

There is clearly enough room for a head on Atlas. People exaggerate his headlessness.

[arch111]

while I agree with the human form as recognotion, being a remote metal/biomechanical proxy could have great potential. Multiple joints, flexible spine and so on.

[raydog]

I think the issue you run into with multiple joints or flexible spine is the rigging on the warframes right now.  They all share animations, that's why you can shift idles and other things.  If one was to have the said features, this would mean an entirely different skeleton, which means more animation work on top of the rigging work.  This has all been reserved for the bosses so far and I think that's for a reason.  Adding an additional skeleton means adding more animation data and that could be expensive performance wise.

[Demonfr34k]

That would make a lot of sense, seeing how what Lep says to you during the assassination. 

I was actually referring to the Golem saying "WE ARE YOUR FLESH", but yeah Lep says something too I guess.

aren't warframes also beings? could be that they are of humanoid shape because..... they are o.o

 

 

 

also @op pls add the

tag to your title...

Also spoiler tags were to prevent console members from getting spoiled because the update was not available to them, now it is 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Demonfr34k

[Prime]

Also spoiler tags were to prevent console members from getting spoiled because the update was not available to them, now it is 

but it's still a major plot twist, not so great for newer player hence i will keep using it

[Syncrasis]

Keep in mind the way the pipeline for the game is set up. They all share a base rigging skeleton, they all have to use the same animations and grip the same weapons in the same way, and the code connects to all of that. Changing any of this stuff means everything has to be made-to-order instead of modular, and lore aside, that's just not a smart use of time.

There's a lot you can do with the body proportions without breaking these rules, however. I say go nuts and see what happens.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Syncrasis

[AM-Bunny]

Keep in mind the way the pipeline for the game is set up. They all share a base rigging skeleton, they all have to use the same animations and grip the same weapons in the same way, and the code connects to all of that. Changing any of this stuff means everything has to be made-to-order instead of modular, and lore aside, that's just not a smart use of time.

There's a lot you can do with the body proportions without breaking these rules, however. I say go nuts and see what happens.

 

True, but there are many smaller inhuman adjustments you could make without requiring a total re-rigging.

 

For instance canine legs probably wouldn't require a colossal amount of work

 

Or a segmented body could allow for some interesting possibilities

[Evanescent]

I was going to post a topic on this too, but seeing as you've done it I'll just contribute here! :D

 

I think it's time we starting breaking down the human form as we progress with our Warframe. Not abandon it completely, mind you, but make them more....inhuman. 

 

I find it would be interesting as integrated lore too, because if you notice carefully there is a trend in the design of Warframe as we go from older to newer. First they were function over form (excalibur, mag, rhino) but as we started to progress down the line they started to get more experimental (Mirage, Limbo, Chroma, Equinox) both in powers and form. It would be very interesting if they continued this trend. 

[Guardian_Legion]

I was going to post a topic on this too, but seeing as you've done it I'll just contribute here! :D

 

I think it's time we starting breaking down the human form as we progress with our Warframe. Not abandon it completely, mind you, but make them more....inhuman. 

 

I find it would be interesting as integrated lore too, because if you notice carefully there is a trend in the design of Warframe as we go from older to newer. First they were function over form (excalibur, mag, rhino) but as we started to progress down the line they started to get more experimental (Mirage, Limbo, Chroma, Equinox) both in powers and form. It would be very interesting if they continued this trend. 

Ivara feels like the demon lovechild of that progression. Appearance-wise she is relatively simple, yet she has one of the most complex and fun kits in the game. I have loved the complexity and adaptability or equinox chroma and ivara.

[arch111]

Keep in mind the way the pipeline for the game is set up. They all share a base rigging skeleton, they all have to use the same animations and grip the same weapons in the same way, and the code connects to all of that. Changing any of this stuff means everything has to be made-to-order instead of modular, and lore aside, that's just not a smart use of time.

There's a lot you can do with the body proportions without breaking these rules, however. I say go nuts and see what happens.

I know about those restrainst being there foe conformity. And I agree at this point in time, DE would need a new rig and a new design to make it work.

Let's have a different idea.

If the body stays human in form, how about holes and energystreams replacing solid matter? Beings that can become incorporeal surely have less limitations than a regular flesh and blood entity.

I feel warframes should evolve now as DE are really starting cover all niches and themes.

[raydog]

I think the holes and energystreams as you say can work.  The upcoming trinity deluxe skin looks like its on stilts and that passed the art direction phase.  If anything, it could be explained that the creature/person or whatever underneath is an amputee or part cyborg.

[Syncrasis]

I know about those restrainst being there foe conformity. And I agree at this point in time, DE would need a new rig and a new design to make it work.

Let's have a different idea.

If the body stays human in form, how about holes and energystreams replacing solid matter? Beings that can become incorporeal surely have less limitations than a regular flesh and blood entity.

I feel warframes should evolve now as DE are really starting cover all niches and themes.

Yeah that's what I meant by, "There's a lot you can do with the body proportions without breaking these rules". I'd love to see some exploration of that kind of stuff. Break it up, mix it around, just attach it to a human rig, have general human shapes in the parts that count and you're good. I wouldn't go full energy or anything like that, but def. a lot of room to explore!

[Rhekemi]

I have to clear this up, it's been bothering me layely.

Since the reveal of SD do warframes still need to follow the human form?

Chroma and Zephyr have a human jaw beneath the shapes of a dragon and bird.

Is this still a requirement, or do we have more room to play with volume now?

- Arch111 -

 

 

Short answer is as concept designers, we can do whatever we want--it just means it may not be a fit for the game.

 

Long answer is I think it's a valid question, but that it addresses the issue from the wrong end: lore, and in-game story.

 

The reason warframe's have a humanoid shape by default is by DE's design--as in their design choice, and for technical reasons outlined by Syncrasis to some extent. (Load your game up, if there's lag Excalibur is always the default model when you log in, or load into any mission--regardless of what warframe you chose.)

 

If they change their mind and see the need for a radically different design that becomes more inhuman, we'll see. The lore, cannot, and will not change that.

 

Once they decide on radically different models, sure, maybe we can go nuts.

 

I think your question should be when will DE create more inhuman warframes, or do they have no plans to do so?