soooo why does the braton prime have a max ammo pool of 375 again?

[NightmareT12]

In a world where Ammo Mutation exists, does it really make such an impact that it has a lower ammo pool? I mean, I'm not sure on the reason but...

And by the way, are you guys even using Status chance on the weapon? I know the Soma Prime outshines it thanks to criticals, but it still does more than good enough.

[Sonicbullitt]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

In a world where Ammo Mutation exists, does it really make such an impact that it has a lower ammo pool? I mean, I'm not sure on the reason but...

And by the way, are you guys even using Status chance on the weapon? I know the Soma Prime outshines it thanks to criticals, but it still does more than good enough.

The problem is not it's effectiveness I have said this , it's status is great i mentioned this, damage isn't a problem you are missing the point of this thread. It's the fact that this is a an oversight on DE's part , a problem that could easily be changed in just   few minutes and implemented into a small hotfix. There is no valid reason for this weapon to have such a small ammo pool.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[NightmareT12]

3 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

The problem is not it's effectiveness I have said this , it's status is great i mentioned this, damage isn't a problem you are missing the point of this thread. It's the fact that this is a an oversight on DE's part , a problem that could easily be changed in just   few minutes and implemented into a small hotfix. There is not valid reason for this weapon to have such a small ammo pool.

We may agree in that there isn't really a real reason for the small size pool, but I'm 100% sure that the Magazine was lowered in purpose when the gun was buffed many patches ago. because it was noted in the patch notes:
 

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Sonicbullitt]

12 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

We may agree in that there isn't really a real reason for the small size pool, but I'm 100% sure that the Magazine was lowered in purpose when the gun was buffed many patches ago. because it was noted in the patch notes.

You don't think I know this? I already stated so in the original post, doesn't mean the ammo pool change was a good one , it may have been at the time but right now in the current state of the game it needs to be brought up to the standard pool. I appreciate the work that DE has done in creating this amazing game , but they are only human and make mistakes too.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt
spelling error

[TheLexiConArtist]

By the time your max ammo becomes relevant, it simultaneously becomes irrelevant. Let that one sink in for a while.

Once you're chewing through ammo enough, you're already banking on ammo drops, not how much you hold at max. Otherwise people might actually slot Ammo Drum or something equally ridiculous.

 

No, it might not make sense. But it also doesn't matter.

[Evanescent]

You'd be surprised how easily this gun shreds enemies with a viral and radiation combo, my friend, You'd be surprised...

Edited February 27, 2016 by Evanescent
fixed typo.

[Sloan441]

Actually, there shouldn't BE a standard pool. This is a holdover from long, long ago and has been slowly going away. It needs to happen much more quickly.

There's no reason different weapon types should have the same basic loads and no reason that ammo pickups should give the same amount of ammo to those assorted weapon types.

That is what needs corrected, not the Braton Prime.

[Sonicbullitt]

11 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

YOu'd be surprised how easily this gun shreds enemies with a viral and radiation combo, my friend, You'd be surprised...

again , not complaining about damage, this gun is fine dmg wise.  I am talking about ammo pool and yes I know you can use mutation , that isn't the point of this post

[Evanescent]

1 minute ago, Sonicbullitt said:

again , not complaining about damage, this gun is fine dmg wise.  I am talking about ammo pool and yes I know you can use mutation , that isn't the point of this post

I was responding more to OP's claim that it is a mid-tier gun at best.

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, Evanescent said:

I was responding more to OP's claim that it is a mid-tier gun at best.

I am the OP lol , but yeah modded right the gun does very well, but I mean mid tier compared to say the soma and boltor otherwise , yes it is a very good weapon. The stats besides the ammo pool were never a problem.

[Evanescent]

2 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

I am the OP lol , but yeah modded right the gun does very well, but I mean mid tier compared to say the soma and boltor otherwise , yes it is a very good weapon. The stats besides the ammo pool were never a problem.

I'll still say that it's the best sounding and feeling gun of the lot. Hence my preference over the others....the Soma never felt like a real gun to me. 

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, Evanescent said:

I'll still say that it's the best sounding and feeling gun of the lot. Hence my preference over the others....the Soma never felt like a real gun to me. 

I would agree , simple but very reliable

[Redhux]

Yes the Braton Prime should have an higher ammo pool.

 

Whatever may argue the people about the "trade-off" story...

 

It would not cause any issue to raise it significantly.

 

Edit: I forgot to reply to the "WHY"; the answer is simple, because of "DEVs logic". Not that i'm agree with it...

Edited February 28, 2016 by Redhux

[Marthrym]

It's just one more nonsensical choice. The buff compared to the regular Braton is substancial indeed. How could it not? The base Braton is a starter weapon. A 30% buff would only make the Prime a shiny turd instead of a regular one. Bandaids like ammo mutation mods can never justify such a low ammo pool. They shouldn't be used to justify anything really. The Braton Prime "should" logically have the regular ammo pool in many a player's mind, but because logic and DE tend to agree to disagree with each other, you end up with that kind of mind-boggling thing in the game, and people on the forums wondering what the Hek was going through [DE]Scott's head when he made that decision.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Marthrym

[KotoKuraken]

Lol at everyone saying Braton P is low damage.

PS: Build it for crit, make up the rest with status. Serration, Split Chamber, Shred, Malignant Force, High Voltage (or Rime Rounds if you prefer Viral), Fangled Fusillade, Vital Sense, Point Strike. Thank me later

[(PSN)DBR87]

I fully support buffing the Braton Prime's ammo pool to 500-800. I don't see any real reason why it's so low when there are Assualt Rifles that perform better, every where. Prisma Grakata, Soma Prime, Boltor Prime, maybe Telos Boltar, Dera Vandal, Supra, Prisma Tetra, and Prisma Gorgon all have similiar DPS or better with better ammo economy.

And it's not really a problem of it going through magazines so quickly but more that it has much less magazine numbers than other and stronger rifles.

[traybong111]

For the longest time, the weapons subforum was a pray-for-braton-and-supra-buff room. People were desperate for a buff to those weapons, hell those weapons getting ignored while things like Amprex and Scindo Prime marched out was something of a running self-deprecating gag. Many players, including myself, were just glad to see Braton P finally getting a buff that ammo pool nerf didn't seem like a big deal at the time or probably didn't want to sound ungrateful (ugh) so some small inconsistencies were more or less tolerated. 

I agree that Braton Prime needs more max ammo, and ammo across all weapons could use some revision. (AkSomati/AkStiletto/Cestras/Vipers/Twin Gremlins max ammo buff when?????)

[Omnimorph]

On 27 February 2016 at 3:53 PM, NightmareT12 said:

In a world where Ammo Mutation exists, does it really make such an impact that it has a lower ammo pool? I mean, I'm not sure on the reason but...

And by the way, are you guys even using Status chance on the weapon? I know the Soma Prime outshines it thanks to criticals, but it still does more than good enough.

The problem is that the Soma Prime doesn't need an ammo mutation.  Ammo becomes important in higher level stuff when you have to pump whole magazines of lead into things to kill them.

The Braton Prime is a fine weapon, fairly competitive with other top tier weapons (with high status and viral/heat elementals) apart from its ammo problem.

The problem is twofold: 1) outliers that DE keeps putting into the game - Soma Prime was one, Boltor Prime another, now it's the Tonkor and the Synoid Simulor.  These are all weapons that "stick out like a sort thumb".  They were mistakes on introduction and they need to be nerfed to bring weapons more in line. 2) the ammo drops being wonky between auto weapons and low fire rate weapons.

I'd actually say that the Braton Prime even with its ammo trade-off is about where weapons should be: extremely deadly, but not OP, but with some downside.  Other weapons should be brought down to its level.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Omnimorph

[NightmareT12]

8 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

The problem is that the Soma Prime doesn't need an ammo mutation.  Ammo becomes important in higher level stuff when you have to pump whole magazines of lead into things to kill them.

The Braton Prime is a fine weapon, fairly competitive with other top tier weapons (with high status and viral/heat elementals) apart from its ammo problem.

The problem is twofold: 1) outliers that DE keeps putting into the game - Soma Prime was one, Boltor Prime another, now it's the Tonkor and the Synoid Simulor.  These are all weapons that "stick out like a sort thumb".  They were mistakes on introduction and they need to be nerfed to bring weapons more in line. 2) the ammo drops being wonky between auto weapons and low fire rate weapons.

I'd actually say that the Braton Prime even with its ammo trade-off is about where weapons should be: extremely deadly, but not OP, but with some downside.  Other weapons should be brought down to its level.

We all seem to be forgetting that the weapons are upgrades, the Braton's Ammo Pool being the exception due the base stats one. Since you've talked about the Soma and Boltor, while I'm aware of its big damage capacities, half the issue here is how damage works. The Boltor is supposed to have a downside already: It's not hitscan, it has only Puncture damage. The Soma Prime is exactly where it belongs: High Critical rate, Fire rate, low base damages to make up for it, Big Ammo Magazine (I remind you the Soma was released to have that as one of the main identities), almost no build up time for Fire rate (Normal Soma takes some time to do).

The Braton is the most basic rifle, it has an advantage thanks to Slash damage and Status chances. The problem here, again, is that on paper every gun is supposed to work as intended BUT the mods and Damage 2.0 are completely borked. Heavy Caliber works well enough that missing hits is not an issue. Hell, you put yourself in "front" of a mob and it will end up hitting stuff. Damage 2.0 turned out so badly, that Elemental Damage outshines any other kind of damage. IPS mods are literally obsolote on most cases thanks to this. Double Elemental/Status mods give you more Status Chance than your basic rifle maxed one. WTF.

Tonkor and Simulor: Don't get me started on them. But again:

In my opinion and given Steve's recent Twitter poll, we should let them retake a look at Damage and Mods because right now asking for weapon retuning in ANY aspect is going to be wasted time. They seem to want to change the way Damage works again, so it will end up being a revision now and a revision later. Let's hope next Devstream can cover this and a good post on the Dev workshop AND then, we can talk about re-tuning our basic Rifle Prime weapon.

[Acidulant]

For absolutely ridiculous reason in the past.

It was something like "braton p has more dmg per shot so we're going to lower max ammo to make total dmg equal to regular braton"

And DE didnt care to take a look back at it since

[Sonicbullitt]

 

 

On 28/02/2016 at 11:14 AM, Redhux said:

Yes the Braton Prime should have an higher ammo pool.

 

Whatever may argue the people about the "trade-off" story...

 

It would not cause any issue to raise it significantly.

 

Edit: I forgot to reply to the "WHY"; the answer is simple, because of "DEVs logic". Not that i'm agree with it...

agreed a flat up buff to ammo pool would not affect anything else in a negative way

On 28/02/2016 at 5:09 PM, KotoKuraken said:

Lol at everyone saying Braton P is low damage.

PS: Build it for crit, make up the rest with status. Serration, Split Chamber, Shred, Malignant Force, High Voltage (or Rime Rounds if you prefer Viral), Fangled Fusillade, Vital Sense, Point Strike. Thank me later

who said the Braton prime had low damage ? No one did this whole thread is about max ammo pool not damage

On 28/02/2016 at 6:16 PM, (PS4)DBR87 said:

I fully support buffing the Braton Prime's ammo pool to 500-800. I don't see any real reason why it's so low when there are Assualt Rifles that perform better, every where. Prisma Grakata, Soma Prime, Boltor Prime, maybe Telos Boltar, Dera Vandal, Supra, Prisma Tetra, and Prisma Gorgon all have similiar DPS or better with better ammo economy.

And it's not really a problem of it going through magazines so quickly but more that it has much less magazine numbers than other and stronger rifles.

Exactly

[KnightCole]

Yeah, that 375 reserve is why I dont use my Braton Prime.  Its a good weapon, ive got it forma'd, I think, 5x, as it was a solid gun for the time I used it, but that 375 rounds means it cant even last 5 minutes in a T2 survival before its out of ammo, or scraping the bottom of it's ammo reserves.

It should atleast get 540, if not more.

 

DE should totally do an ammo overhaul on guns.  LMGs buffed to 1080, all of them.  Large mag ARs buffed to 840, things like the Bratons, Grakata, Tetra, stuff like that.  Then small mag guns like the Karak buffed up to 720 and then buff the Karak damage or mag cap from 30 to like 40. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by KnightCole

[KnightCole]

On 2/27/2016 at 7:53 AM, NightmareT12 said:

In a world where Ammo Mutation exists, does it really make such an impact that it has a lower ammo pool? I mean, I'm not sure on the reason but...

And by the way, are you guys even using Status chance on the weapon? I know the Soma Prime outshines it thanks to criticals, but it still does more than good enough.

Maybe when it goes in a gun exilus slot will it truly be worth much.

[ShortCat]

This discussion is irrelevant. 300 or 500 or 800 reserve ammo pool is irrelevant. If you do not endless missions of any kind, you have enough ammo. If you do endless missions you still need ammo mutation, because even 800 reserve without mustation will last only 1 minute more than 300 with ammo mutation.

4 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Maybe when it goes in a gun exilus slot will it truly be worth much.

Exilus slot for Frames was a very bad idea, and now some great thinker propagate Exilus for weapons. Let me tell you a little secret off topic: since weapons are weapon and they are ment to do damage, thus every mod you slot, will increase your burst or sustain damage; even Ammo Drum or Eagle Eye count, as there is no definition or consistancy of "Utility" in this game.

[KnightCole]

6 hours ago, ShortCat said:

This discussion is irrelevant. 300 or 500 or 800 reserve ammo pool is irrelevant. If you do not endless missions of any kind, you have enough ammo. If you do endless missions you still need ammo mutation, because even 800 reserve without mustation will last only 1 minute more than 300 with ammo mutation.

Exilus slot for Frames was a very bad idea, and now some great thinker propagate Exilus for weapons. Let me tell you a little secret off topic: since weapons are weapon and they are ment to do damage, thus every mod you slot, will increase your burst or sustain damage; even Ammo Drum or Eagle Eye count, as there is no definition or consistancy of "Utility" in this game.

Exilus slot mods are useless, outside of Rush for moar speed.  Whats so bad about Exilus slots anyway?