[SPOILERS] The twin Queens

[DzeraDragonbane]

Just now, Agentawesome said:

My theory is that the sentience of the original operator may still reside within the Warframe even after the operator's passing. Hence why Stalker uses an Excalibur suit but with the rage of his original operator. Maybe even Mirage's Warframe was destroyed as explained in her quest and a poem was inscribed on her blueprints by her operator (or it could also work the other way around having the operator killed). The twin queens may just be a preserved operator and possibly the sentience of her sister within a Warframe.

I actually think Stalker killed his operator and was "free". 

[Arugula420]

4 minutes ago, Lucernam said:

No, it's not. You should have named it [SPOILERS] War Within Theory, or the like. NEVER spoil something in the title. Even in the post, I recommend putting the secret inside a closed quote box. Having something spoiled for you is the epitome of no-fun. Some people (myself included) really do appreciate surprises.

I put spoilers in the title and DE just put out the new trailer of the Queens. If you don't wanna read my theory, don't read passed the spoiler warning. If you're going to come into this thread and complain about spoilers, when the first word of the title is a spoiler warning, you have no right to complain and shouldn't be here. 

 

[Basilisk1991]

4 minutes ago, Catacomb said:

What is that, salt?

OMG SO MUCH SALT!

[Lucernam]

Just now, TheycallmeMald said:

I put spoilers in the title and DE just put out the new trailer of the Queens. If you don't wanna read my theory, don't read passed the spoiler warning. If you're going to come into this thread and complain about spoilers, when the first word of the title is a spoiler warning, you have no right to complain and shouldn't be here.

You need to think on the side of people who aren't aware of these things yet. For example, not everyone watches the Devstreams or follows Dev updates closely. Even those who do, life happens, and they may get to watching these things days or even weeks after the fact. You need to give people some leeway. Err on the side of caution, and respect your fellow Tenno who want to play the game their way.

[Basilisk1991]

2 minutes ago, Lucernam said:

You need to think on the side of people who aren't aware of these things yet. For example, not everyone watches the Devstreams or follows Dev updates closely. Even those who do, life happens, and they may get to watching these things days or even weeks after the fact. You need to give people some leeway. Err on the side of caution, and respect your fellow Tenno who want to play the game their way.

I get where you are coming from, the problem is that this whole thread is speculation. If they put say [Theory] in the title would you even have an issue?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Basilisk1991

[Genitive]

30 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

I just took that to mean the Operator was controlling the Warframe without touching it or making direct contact.

I also think that. We know from the Rhino codex that Tenno don't have to touch warframes to control them. I mean, it might have been the warframe acting on its own but we should be careful with taking it for granted. Buuut it was more likely the operator moving the warframe remotely.

It's an interesting theory nevertheless, though it argues with the Kuria poem. The characters are most certainly the queens, but we don't know anything substantial about them. Maybe the younger one is the clone of the twin that died. For all we know the queens might also clone themselves repeatedly to achieve immortality.

 

Also, since the queens seem to know about the operators hints that they were born before the Tenno were created. I don't think they are Tenno because of how they refer to them. In the trailers thay call them 'dreamers', as opposed to 'the rest' or 'the others', which leads me to believe they are not Tenno.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Genitive

[Plushy]

2 minutes ago, Basilisk1991 said:

The problem is that this whole thread is speculation, if they put say [Theory] in the title would you even be here?

Nope. Just means the current title is click bait. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Plushy

[TARINunit9]

@TheycallmeMald That would be an incredibly fun theory if it wasn't already confirmed that the Grineer Kweens aren't Tenno, Zariman, or Warframe in any way shape or form. They're daughters of some Orokin aristocrat who have no known connections to the Tenno whatsoever

@Momaw One theory I heard about the War Within trailer is that the younger character is a cloned "organ vat" for one of the Kweens, a la that old movie The Island, being groomed to provide organs for the real Kween who lies comatose somewhere offscreen

[Heatnix.]

11 minutes ago, Catacomb said:

What is that, salt?

No, it's a typo! =v

[Yaerion]

Please, do not write in the title of the thread itself the spoilers you're trying to hide from people with a [ spoiler] tag. It's... how to say... counter-productive. >_<

Some unnecessary parts of the title were Slash Dashed ('are a Tenno and a warframe').

Interesting supposition, though.

[321agemo]

6 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

Guys you have to read a little deeper. DE has given us all the answers, but they're not gonna write them out boldly. Where would be the elegance and fun?

"Elders were gathered" line could mean anything. It could simply mean they witnessed the tenno sister bring the warframe sister to life and thought it to be a "birthing" 

"A tale of two sisters who bore the same face"

Read a little deeper! "Bore the same face" could very clearly mean that they are like one being, like how the tenno and the warframe "bare the same face" and the word still works. 

Just more evidence to support the truth

You see, i would agree with you if DE were eloquent like that. I used to be the same way of thinking.

 

Then second dream dropped. All those things theories saying it couldn't be a kid and we're inside the suit because that would be too easy: shot down.

[Lucernam]

3 minutes ago, Basilisk1991 said:

I get where you are coming from, the problem is that this whole thread is speculation. If they put say [Theory] in the title would you even have an issue?

I would not include "Twin Queens are Warframe" in the title. That's not just good spoiler etiquette, it's also just basic... headlining? They didn't call the Chronicles of Narnia "Lion-Jesus and His Animal Friends." Say "I have a theory!" with your title, then say what it is within post. That way, if someone isn't interested in theories, or they don't want any suggestion to colour their future experience of content, they have the ability to turn away. Lessen accidental spoiling at all turns. That's my mantra, if only because I hate spoilers with a passion.

[AM-Bunny]

2 minutes ago, Lucernam said:

I would not include "Twin Queens are Warframe" in the title. That's not just good spoiler etiquette, it's also just basic... headlining? They didn't call the Chronicles of Narnia "Lion-Jesus and His Animal Friends." Say "I have a theory!" with your title, then say what it is within post. That way, if someone isn't interested in theories, or they don't want any suggestion to colour their future experience of content, they have the ability to turn away. Lessen accidental spoiling at all turns. That's my mantra, if only because I hate spoilers with a passion.

Not to be rude, but what are these spoilers you're even referring to? This thread is just rampant speculation, that's not spoilers.

[Lucernam]

Just now, AM-Bunny said:

Not to be rude, but what are these spoilers you're even referring to? This thread is just rampant speculation, that's not spoilers.

Even speculation can, as I said, colour your opinion of the final product. Some people do like to go into a story completely cold-turkey, with as little information as possible. I just try very hard to be respectful of people who want to experience media that way. I feel like spoiler culture and trailer reveals are thrown haphazard without regard to people who may not be interested. Again, think of your fellow Tenno. Some people like spoilers, some do not, but you've got to let them decide.

[AM-Bunny]

Just now, Lucernam said:

Even speculation can, as I said, colour your opinion of the final product. Some people do like to go into a story completely cold-turkey, with as little information as possible. I just try very hard to be respectful of people who want to experience media that way. I feel like spoiler culture and trailer reveals are thrown haphazard without regard to people who may not be interested. Again, think of your fellow Tenno. Some people like spoilers, some do not, but you've got to let them decide.

That's being a little over-sensitive in my opinion. That's like -- before Second Dream came out, there were tonnes of ideas about what a Tenno really was. Trying to be hush-hush and spoiler-y about idle speculation is taking it way too far. 

[Stratego89]

I would like you to read the kuria poem about the twin queens. They are 100% for sure NOT a warframe and it's operator. Besides... (and for the last time.....) warframes are not sentient and cannot move without an operator.

[ToaPhantom]

Uhh.  .. dude, you gotta read the Kurias at times.
The Kuria poems are about the twin Queens.
#1 -
A Story once lost
Recovered by fate
The tale of two sisters
Who bore the same face

#2 - 
Born one quiet morning
Amidst the great war
All elders were gathered
For this life's new dawn

#3 - 
Confused and bewildered
They judged them amiss
For they never witnessed
Two self-same as these

#4 -
A mirrored reflection
Had come into life
By will of their father
Kept safe from the knife

#5 -
Their sameness was shunned
As slave-like and soiled
They tended their strays
Rejected by all

#6 -
As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength

#7 -
The Uprising came
And Spread like a weed
An army of copy-men
Ferocious and Free

#8 -
And much like the sea
They came just like waves
For years they fought on
For years we remained

#9 -
Like chisel to stone
War molded the twins
Who ravaged the hordes
Became legend to them

#10 -
They had a deep strength
That came from Each other
Unlike all these copies
Identical, but not brothers

#11 -
The copies could see it
They yearned for it too
If the twins could do it
Perhaps they could too

#12 -
The twins had attained
Something more than a whole
A true understanding
Of each other soul

#13 -
The copies became believers
One by one bowed to the twins
And led forth by their new masters
They ravaged the colonies

#14 -
Now a power to follow
Not a force to be fought
From the ashes of war
The Twin Queens were wrought

[bowiespoon]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

This is a man standing by the tracks, yelling to the passengers "Be careful, you're on the Headcanon train! That thing's been known to explosively derail on contact with new updates!"

 

But no-one listens. They clutch their ticket stubs eagerly. One man unfurls a newspaper. The headline reads "Dozens Of Players Still Missing, Presumed Salty, After Operator Revelations!"

I was even happier when my theory was busted, as I usually can exactly how a story will unfold. The operator truly caught me by suprize.

[[DE]Momaw]

1 hour ago, LazerSkink said:

 

 

There's no reason to believe the trailer does not show the Queens either.

Directly from Steve:

http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/warframe-panel-interview-pax-east

"About the Grineer Queens"  and "It showed some mysterious characters"

He did not say that those were the Queens themselves. Also in order for these to be the queens you either have to ignore previous lore (that they're identical, and that warframes are bio-machines that we build out of raw materials), or speculate new lore ("Oh they aren't *actually* identical because {creative interpretation}") to make it fit.

You also have to:

* ignore the fact that one of them was clearly dismissive of the other (age/experience/authority gap)

* not be interested by the line "the dreamers have awakened" which suggested they already knew the true nature of the Tenno when the only Grineer that seemed to have any idea what was going on was Vor.

* discount the backstory where Vor was ordered by the Queens to destroy the warframes "before they hatched", and was punished by demoting him from admiral to captain when he failed to do this. This doesn't reconcile with the teaser where the larger figure wants us to come to them.

Ultimately if you want slippery coy explanations, look no further than Steve. What he sad would not hold up in court. :)  I may ultimately be proven wrong and these are (somehow) the Queens, but I don't see enough evidence to take it as proven yet.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Momaw

[Eldnacpeek]

12 hours ago, Momaw said:

"About the Grineer Queens"  and "It showed some mysterious characters"

He did not say that those were the Queens themselves. Also in order for these to be the queens you either have to ignore previous lore (that they're identical, and that warframes are bio-machines that we build out of raw materials), or speculate new lore ("Oh they aren't *actually* identical because {creative interpretation}") to make it fit.

You also have to:

* ignore the fact that one of them was clearly dismissive of the other (age/experience/authority gap)

* they mention prayer (we have never seen indication that the Grineer have any kind of religion)

* not be interested by the line "the dreamers have awakened" which suggested they already knew the true nature of the Tenno when the only Grineer that seemed to have any idea what was going on was Vor.

Ultimately if you want slippery coy explanations, look no further than Steve. What he sad would not hold up in court. :)  I may ultimately be proven wrong and these are (somehow) the Queens, but I don't see enough evidence to take it as proven yet.

 

Explain how it's logical or necessary to have two female figures be the main point of a teaser for the next update-in addition having a lead developer make a comment on said figures' potential (there) identity-only to find out the figures are completely unrelated to both the teaser and the comment alike. I believe for now that the War Within teaser is displaying the Queens due to this logic. It doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't be, otherwise it just seems pointless to have created another pair of significant female leaders in Warframe, alongside Steve's comment about the teaser's subject not actually having anything to do with said subject. Obviously I can't say anything further because we simply need more information which U19 will provide.

Of course it goes both ways here, either of us could be wrong, but I'm just saying it's not merely a baseless "assumption" of the pair's identity, even when considering current lore (Tale of Two Sisters).

Edited May 3, 2016 by LazerSkink

[BornWithTeeth]

The conclusion that the figures are the Kweens is not baseless, no.

 

Concluding that the figures are the Kweens and that they are an Operator and Warframe and that the Warframe is fully sapient and that the Warframe is in fact in control......that's some wild, baseless speculation there.

[Dewsitine]

I keep thinking that the girl is the clone of the old lady and that old lady is the same women who is in the guardsman lore entry that became "grineer". My reasoning is that first is the time which is unknown for the gap of fall to present, second is the life span of an orokin person is unknown, third is that the girl seems to be a clone/natural born of the old lady, and there happens to be as of this moment no other children that are in the grineer. I also want to add that the old lady if she is an orokin would have access to high level of cloning to the point where she could possibly bypass the side effects that plague from cloning.

 

An extreme idea could be that the girl is the daughter of the old women and from a dead operator. particularly a female operator due to the girls rule boys drool government.

[Akavakaku]

2 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

I would like you to read the kuria poem about the twin queens. They are 100% for sure NOT a warframe and it's operator. Besides... (and for the last time.....) warframes are not sentient and cannot move without an operator.

I do think the Queens were Orokin, but we know warframes, or at least, entities very much like them, can act independently, from the Rhino Prime Codex. 

[EmptyDevil]

This thread kinda reminds me of my own crackpot theory about the queens.

Copy/pasted from a different thread:

 

- The Twin Queens learned of Transference at some point.

- One twin was kept in stasis or something to preserve her while the other was awake to run things.

- They started looking for ways to transform the old twin into a Warframe-like entity.

- This desire was brought on by their deep connection with each other, they want to share a single and powerful body. 

Spoiler

#6 -
As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength

#10 -
They had a deep strength
That came from Each other
Unlike all these copies
Identical, but not brothers

- They need a Tenno and it's Warframe to realize their goal of becoming one.

 

Ultimately they would be together forever and be very powerful, if they had the same body.

[Stratego89]

28 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

I do think the Queens were Orokin, but we know warframes, or at least, entities very much like them, can act independently, from the Rhino Prime Codex. 

Firstly- the queens were grineer. Again, read the kuria poem on them. They were twins- twins didn't happen with grineer. They were shunned for that. Hated. Almost killed. In the end they become battle gods and lead the grineer.

Secondly- the thing in the rhino prime codex entry is NOT a warframe. It is an infested. We know from lore that warframes (as they exist now- where they are controlled by a tenno operator) were researched and created AFTER the phenomenon of transference was discovered. That's what the Rhino Codex incident is, the discovery of transference. "What is happening" "Big... fat... promotions". I know that's not the exact quote but something along those lines. If you think about what is in the codex entries and these lines it becomes clear that those two scientists discovered/proved the existence of the Transference phenomenon. The raging beast steps in range of the Tenno holding chambers- and suddenly stops and looks at it's hands. What's one of the first things people do when they go through a shocking event (such as suddenly being in a completely different place instantaneously). They look at their hands/limbs. The infested at that point had been taken control of via mental link by a Tenno- and even the Tenno had no clue what had just happened and was confused and trying to figure out what was going on- from the POV of the infested. This is why infested tissue is used in our suits- it's what we link with, also part of established lore. The one scientist not knowing what had happened proves that they didn't know exactly what had happened. The other scientist's claim of promotions shows they just discovered something huge.

TL;DR- it's not a warframe, it's an infested. Or at least some abomination of an infested torn apart and altered by the scientists- but still not a warframe that we control. This is evident because this event is quite clearly the discovery of transference which came before the warframes we see and make today- as well as the primes.