[SPOILERS] The twin Queens

[[DE]Momaw]

9 minutes ago, Basilisk1991 said:

we should bear in mind that theoretically thousands of years have passed since that Poem was written

 

In the very first cutscene of Warframe, Lotus says that we slept for "generations".   Which is an imprecise measure of time. Generally a human generation is about 20 years.  What kind of generations, and how many, is left unspoken.  We could be dealing with anything from a few decades to a few centuries. But Lotus also tells us, when fighting Lephantis, that it is somewhere between a few centuries and a millenia old. So I don't think "thousands of years" is really possible.

 

7 minutes ago, Raniu said:

I would say the same thing before. But Steve already confirmed the two on the teaser are the Grineer queens.

Citation needed.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Momaw

[(PSN)jFresh215]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

Seems kinda weird thou doesn't it. One is an old woman while the other sounds like a child yet they are twin queens? Idk I think there is more than what was shown.

There was an interesting theory that I read from someone about a week saying that they are twins but that they are constantly cloning each other so that they can live forever. The young one is being "trained" by the older one to lead so that when the old queen dies, the young one can then train the new one and so and so forth. 

[321agemo]

I find it unlikely if you consider the kuria poem. For one thing, these 2 sisters were born together.

“For they never witnessed
Two self-same as these”

And they were identical to each other:

“A mirrored reflection
Had come into life”

 

The reason for their difference in appearence must have happen much later:

“As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength”

 

 

[Arugula420]

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

This is a man standing by the tracks, yelling to the passengers "Be careful, you're on the Headcanon train! That thing's been known to explosively derail on contact with new updates!"

 

But no-one listens. They clutch their ticket stubs eagerly. One man unfurls a newspaper. The headline reads "Dozens Of Players Still Missing, Presumed Salty, After Operator Revelations!"

I refer you to:

 

9 minutes ago, Raniu said:

I would say the same thing before. But Steve already confirmed the two on the teaser are the Grineer queens.

 

[Catacomb]

Cool hypothesis bro, but i'd rather wait for the canon answer than another random fan headcanon. It seems unnecessary to start conjecturing.

[R34LM]

28 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

Did you play second dream? The warframe was able to break war and send the stalker running on its own.

You know I always thought it was the operator linking to the frame since it was on more home turf. But this would make even better sense if this was where it was going. The irony would be a huge leap in terms of lore.

[Basilisk1991]

12 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

but noone knows the secret of the tenno except the lotus, and now teshin, the stalker, and hunhow as of second dream. However, the twin Queens already know about the "dreamers".

We do need to keep in mind that Teshin was/is closely associated with the Tenno and has served them since the Old War so it stands to reason that others may very well be aware of this, the Stalker himself didn't even know (Or may have forgotten) until Hunhow told and/or reminded him.

 

9 minutes ago, Momaw said:

In the very first cutscene of Warframe, Lotus says that we slept for "generations".   Which is an imprecise measure of time. Generally a human generation is about 20 years.  How many generations, and how many, is left unspoken.  We could be dealing with anything from a few decades to a few centuries. But Lotus also tells us, when fighting Lephantis, that it is somewhere between a few centuries and a millenia old. So I don't think "thousands of years" is really possible.

 

We should keep in mind that the lifespan of most "humans" in the game are super-long, here's a quote from Darvo directed at his father during "The Ties that Bind":

"Damn it father, I'm almost 105 years old! I make my own choices!"

Just by looking at his characterization I would forgive you for assuming Darvo's in his mid to late twenties but he's actually over a century old, which should give you an idea how skewed the timescale has gotten.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Basilisk1991

[Kaotyke]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

But no-one listens. They clutch their ticket stubs eagerly. One man unfurls a newspaper. The headline reads "Dozens Of Players Still Missing, Presumed Salty, After Operator Revelations!"

*News Report voice* Any news if those players have been diluted with water and returned, BWT?

Just now, TheycallmeMald said:

I refer you to:

Again: Citation Link Needed.

If it was in the last Devstream do you know the time?

[[DE]Momaw]

1 minute ago, TheycallmeMald said:

But Steve already confirmed the two on the teaser are the Grineer queens

Where?  When? I just back-crawled Steve's twitter log and can't find a record of this.  Reddit? Forum post? Interview? 

If you can't cite a source, it never happened.

[Misgenesis]

I am extremely doubtful

 

[Eldnacpeek]

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

The major thing that I think people are taking for granted, and should not, is that the War Within trailer is the Twin Queens.

 

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

I said we should not assume that they are the grineer queens.

 

There's no reason to believe the trailer does not show the Queens either.

Directly from Steve:

http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/warframe-panel-interview-pax-east

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

If you can't cite a source, it never happened.

 

End of story.

Edited May 3, 2016 by LazerSkink

[DaftMeat]

39 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

Did you play second dream? The warframe was able to break war and send the stalker running on its own. It's probably got something to do with cryo sleep, or it's some sort of skill, possibly gained over time, that the Queens have always used. Maybe somehow their energies still work in tandem, they can just operate as separate entities all the while.

I just took that to mean the Operator was controlling the Warframe without touching it or making direct contact.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

23 minutes ago, Momaw said:

Apparently you misread.

I said we should not assume that they are the grineer queens.

Or assume that because the word Twin is used that they are actually the same age. Perhaps "Twin" is used because the Grineer have two queens. It could be possible that when one Queen dies (Assuming they die of age or assassination) then another one is Cloned to take its place. Hence why one might sound younger.

 

In my opinion the "War within" might refer to a Grineer Civil War. Between Loyalists to the Queens, the Steel Meridian, and maybe Vor and his Followers.

[Arugula420]

5 minutes ago, 321agemo said:

I find it unlikely if you consider the kuria poem. For one thing, these 2 sisters were born together.

“For they never witnessed
Two self-same as these”

And they were identical to each other:

“A mirrored reflection
Had come into life”

 

The reason for their difference in appearence must have happen much later:

“As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength”

 

 

“For they never witnessed
Two self-same as these”

They were one. Like tenno and warframe. "They" (the grineer) "had never witnessed" the truth about the warframes. So they didn't understand and assumed them to be one being, probably reveared and feared their power.

“A mirrored reflection
Had come into life”

Again they are like two beings in one. They "mirror" eachother, two halfs of a whole. "Had come to life" could refer to the warframe sister being brought to life by the tenno sister before gaining sentience, just like the main tenno's warframe became sentient durring second dream.

“As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength”

Again seems pretty obvious that they are referring to the two Queens beeing interconnected just as tenno and warframe are. They have the same "poise" "senses" and "strength".

Really think about it. DE has always hidden stuff in the bits of written lore they give us. They love that.

9 minutes ago, Catacomb said:

Cool hypothesis bro, but i'd rather wait for the canon answer than another random fan headcanon. It seems unnecessary to start conjecturing.

On the contrary. I think DE wants us to solve the puzzle. The video was the last piece and I think it is our job to discuss and follow the very apparent trail. That's why they gave it to us. They want us to follow it and get excited. Like I said in my above response, they've always done stuff like this. With archwing, the truth about the tenno and the warframe and transference. It's always been little hints. But this time with "the war within" I think they're basically screaming at us. I mean come on. Can anyone explain the name? It's pretty damning haha

[Grimm]

both queens speak english fine. a warframe does not speak.

also read the poem about the queens.

[AM-Bunny]

36 minutes ago, Momaw said:

The major thing that I think people are taking for granted, and should not, is that the War Within trailer is the Twin Queens.  The Kuria poem says they were identical, matched in perfection, so much so that the Orokin were creeped out by them.  NOT wildly dimorphic in size, age, and body shape.

All we know from the trailer is that one calls the other "sister". There are other places that you might refer to somebody as sister.

It was confirmed to be the Twin Queens in an interview with Steve by the General Failure Podcast.

https://soundcloud.com/general-failure-podcast/general-failure-interview-with-digital-extremes

[Arugula420]

4 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

 

There's no reason to believe the trailer does not show the Queens either.

Directly from Steve:

http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/warframe-panel-interview-pax-east

There u go homies. I do belive they also said it in the devstream, but there it is in black and white.

 

12 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

I am extremely doubtful

 

Bruh the warframe sister has ENERGY. Look at the red dots, it's so obvious. Operators also wear weird, alien clothing, usually including those helmet-looking hoods.

This plus all the other evidence makes it honestly pretty obvious. 

I mean look at it bro. The warframe has energy.

7 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

I just took that to mean the Operator was controlling the Warframe without touching it or making direct contact.

Nah it's definatly been stated that the warframe did this itself in a devstream. Its also pretty clearly being communicated by the cinematography.

 

 

[Basilisk1991]

10 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

Again seems pretty obvious that they are referring to the two Queens beeing interconnected just as tenno and warframe are. They have the same "poise" "senses" and "strength".

The only problem with this is that they've established that Lorists match this description as well in the Synthesis entry for the Corrupted Ancients. I get that's a minor tidbit that's easy to forget after the upheaval of The Second Dream but that's still established Canon.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Basilisk1991

[321agemo]

3 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

“For they never witnessed
Two self-same as these”

They were one. Like tenno and warframe. "They" (the grineer) "had never witnessed" the truth about the warframes. So they didn't understand and assumed them to be one being, probably reveared and feared their power.

“A mirrored reflection
Had come into life”

Again they are like two beings in one. They "mirror" eachother, two halfs of a whole. "Had come to life" could refer to the warframe sister being brought to life by the tenno sister before gaining sentience, just like the main tenno's warframe became sentient durring second dream.

“As both Girls Matured
Their bond grew in depth
They had the same poise
Same senses, same strength”

Again seems pretty obvious that they are referring to the two Queens beeing interconnected just as tenno and warframe are. They have the same "poise" "senses" and "strength".

Really think about it. DE has always hidden stuff in the bits of written lore they give us. They love that.

“All elders were gathered
For this life's new dawn”

This was before the witness line. I highly doubt elders would refer to the grineer.

 

Also, they definitely looked the same, considering the first 4 lines of the poem is:

 

A Story once lost
Recovered by fate
The tale of two sisters
Who bore the same face

[Raniu]

16 minutes ago, Momaw said:

 

24 minutes ago, Raniu said:

I would say the same thing before. But Steve already confirmed the two on the teaser are the Grineer queens.

Citation needed.

Sure thing. Someone posted this interview on the forums before:

http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/warframe-panel-interview-pax-east

Somewhere at the end of the interview, Steve says the teaser showed the Twin Queens.

[Arugula420]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)IroncladBomber said:

In my opinion the "War within" might refer to a Grineer Civil War. Between Loyalists to the Queens, the Steel Meridian, and maybe Vor and his Followers.

Def not cause the Steel Meridian are already doing all they can against the grineer and definatly don't have the mass to take on the grineer armies. Also Vor is a corrupted now. Wouldn't exactly be a civil war now that he's not even a member of their faction.

 

6 minutes ago, Grimm said:

both queens speak english fine. a warframe does not speak.

also read the poem about the queens.

You are not reading the thread my friend. Both of these items have already been discussed.

[Lucernam]

25 minutes ago, TheycallmeMald said:

I put it in the title. Isn't that fair enough?

No, it's not. You should have named it [SPOILERS] War Within Theory, or the like. NEVER spoil something in the title. Even in the post, I recommend putting the secret inside a closed quote box. Having something spoiled for you is the epitome of no-fun. Some people (myself included) really do appreciate surprises.

[Heatnix.]

Why do people still think the Warframes are something more than a puppet? Their construction materials don't provide the means for any consciousness.

Also, as for the second fai--dream, do remember the operator powered the the frame after exiting the capsule with just a touch. People believe the Warframe doing the sword thing on it's own, but it makes more sense to be the last remains of energy and the operator using this energy to break war while the stalker was busy savoring the kill.

[Arugula420]

3 minutes ago, 321agemo said:

“All elders were gathered
For this life's new dawn”

This was before the witness line. I highly doubt elders would refer to the grineer.

 

Also, they definitely looked the same, considering the first 4 lines of the poem is:

 

A Story once lost
Recovered by fate
The tale of two sisters
Who bore the same face

Guys you have to read a little deeper. DE has given us all the answers, but they're not gonna write them out boldly. Where would be the elegance and fun?

"Elders were gathered" line could mean anything. It could simply mean they witnessed the tenno sister bring the warframe sister to life and thought it to be a "birthing" 

"A tale of two sisters who bore the same face"

Read a little deeper! "Bore the same face" could very clearly mean that they are like one being, like how the tenno and the warframe "bare the same face" and the word still works. 

Just more evidence to support the truth

[Catacomb]

Just now, Heatnix. said:

Also, as for the second fai--dream, 

What is that, salt?